Reading your bio silverblade I kinda understand now why you go off on anyone who doesn't  fill your need to be cheery. Living under a constant cloud in the depths of depression  would probably make me act like a jerk !  You're just another slant on the neighborhood bully  Scotty.

You are right craftycurate in saying there are dull Poser images... As you are right in saying there are many that are awesome.

OH! I like Boris to, but Frank is still may all time favorite.  I did not know until a couple of years ago that the dark haired babe he painted in all of his works was his wife!  She is just as good looking in real life!

Depression does not make you a bully, it tears at the fabric of your mind, enslaves your consciousness in a pit of fear and cloaks you in an overwhelming state of senselessness.   A darkness that not even the most fearless can tolerate.

Tablesaw, this is not an illness to joke about, being dehumanized by such an illness can only be understood by those who suffer from this devastating illness. 

I have had Manic Depresssion with a dash of paranoid psychosis since the age of 12. Its like opening a box of chocolates every morning.theres only so much valium and clonapin one can eat...Gotta go out have a drink,put down the donuts and say F*&% IT once in a while...

Keenart...silverblade attacked me because I asked a simple question about the quality of images I've been viewing. He decided I was ignorant, crass, and whatever else he thought he could get away with saying. I don't like being called these things and all he did was put my back up against the wall. The bully comment had nothing to do with his state of health it was just a sentence after another.

Tablesaw,
Look in the mirror before you start throwing those accusations. I'm not the one hunting through another person's website for items to harass and abuse them with.
That "skirt" is a "kilt". For someone to not know what that is, or to be so full of themselves as to insult it, knowing what it is...sigh.  

I ponder what skeletons you hide in the closet, that makes you act so?
Other posters are remarkably mature and calm, makes a nice change to  much of the rest of the world :)

I'm annoyed by your arrogant hubris, you are not here to debate, or amuse, or share. But since I'm an adult, I'd rather return fire with insight and humour, since there's more than just you and me here on this board.

Quote -
Listen pal...six months ago I had heart surgery and a cardiologist looked me in the eye and said I may not make it but I'm here and made it because I have guts and fearlessness.

"Guts" and "fearlessness" have nothing to do with surviving heart surgery. They help, but they don't make you survive it, medical studies even show that, fyi, at least with cancer.
You are alive because of Fate and damned good physicians, and THOSE are the folk you should be praising, not your own self.

Now, if you have managed to cope with severe pain, disablity, depression etc, then i'd be impressed.
Dying is easy, living is hard.

And I've seen a bit of what's on the Other Side, you obviosuly have not, or you would have lost your arrogance and thanked God or Whomever, for just being granted the privilege to see any art again.

Now, maybe I've picked you up wrong, maybe you are indeed a nice man, but your tone of writing is NOT that of a friendly, congenial, or enlightened person. Always hard to tell with the lack inflection of pure text, but your words by your 5th post in this thread suggested you were indeed "undesirable". Go back and read it. Plain out right insult to the poster referenced.

Quote -
I have not seen your art, but I doubt you have spent your life around  great artists as you say I have not. I won't get into quoting other artists from our past, as what was written in their behalf was not in their own handwritings. You are the same school of thought that believes a diploma is equivalent  to talent and any artist worth their salt knows long before they reach the so called  professional arena you speak of that what they pull from within does not come easily. You seem to speak of masterpieces as if they plop from ones butt, not so... As you can fill one large bookshelf with all the memorable works created by the most talented (not experienced) artists of our times.

Since this board doesn't have an "ignore" function, i dealt with you in a "Bugs Bunny vs Yosemite Sam" fashion. Much more fun for everyone ;)

Now,have I picked you up wrongly?  If so, I apologise, but t least I tried ot keep it funny.

 
Keenart,
no kidding, mate :/

Funny?  You're posts aren't funny.  Please stay on topic.

A bit about myself...Yes I am hard, maybe to hard for my own good but that comes from spending many years on the streets of a big city. I don't think I have a single unbroken bone in my hands or scars from the life and death situations I put myself in. I could write a book on what I have seen and been a part of but most of you here would only put the blame entirely on these broad shoulders. I'm now older and very tame if thats possible for me, but my art is and has always been my salvation. Its hard to leave old habits behind  but I f *#@% try!

Tablesaw,
peace? :)

So, Tablesaw, you have the floor, now what would you change to make Rend a better place?

This reply is not a response to what is art and what is not, or who's an artist and who isn't.  In my opinion, those topics are so subjective as to render argument on them moot. It simply does not matter....here or anywhere else.

These galleries are not the same as the Metro downtown or the Albright Knox, wherin finished, mounted and saleable pieces are displayed for layman, agent and critic alike. Nor are they like the studios which pump out art 'professionally'  for multitudes of clients. In my opinion, these galleries are simply a showcase for the 'user', be they hobbyist, beginner, veteran or professional to share their 'progress' in this particular art form and with this, or another particular tool. There are plenty of pieces here that would translate easily into the highbrow analog gallery and just as many that would better remain in the sketchbook.

I, myself, am a professional in both art and music, if, by professional one means that I make money at it. I certainly do. Yet most of my work in these galleries are not 'finished' saleable pieces. They are simply illustrations of where I'm at and what I'm working on these days. I think the same is true of many of us. There are far more 'finished' artists here than I am for sure.

I don't comment much in the galleries if ever. That doesn't mean I don't view the works or participate. I simply avoid the commentary bog. I prefer to email a colleague or discuss technique in the forums. And as such, I'd like to take this opportunity to mention what I see going on in the gallery and which particulars float my boat.

I admire the fortitude it takes to work with a tool that is both wondrous and frustrating, quirky and unpredictable...sometimes working, sometimes not. I like it when a tool is bent to the artistic will and I see that a lot in the Vue galleries.

I like the work being done on different ways to do a thing...the emulation of Terragen, the use of Python for skin shaders and such and the marvelous array of new vegetation.  I am not good at Vue atmospheres or plants so I am thrilled when new awesome ones are created by the community.

I too, grow weary of the gratuitous Poser babe that's planted top heavy in the middle of a camera view....but I love it when an unusual lighting is added or an innovative costume that was modelled in Hexagon or an unexpected backdrop.

I am thoroughly enjoying the military and nautical scenes that are currently prevelant.

I love the sci fi/ fantasy scenes...especially the ones based on storyline and literature.

I like the experiments in lighting going on and as a lighting noob, I find viewing them valuable in my own efforts to learn.

I am very fond of the mixture of Vue and 2d...especially Vue and Painter.

I am excited about the tools to model within Vue. Again, different ways of doing things.

I like the works wherein styles of the Old World masters are emulated.

I like the stuff where the composition itself is the main subject....

I could go on but I gotta go to the day job. At any rate, this is all simply my opinion but one which I hope is well taken.

Live long and render...

M

I agree totally to what monsoon said, I have very similar thoughts.

Only one addition to threads like this. The problem with those is that they ask people that are (still) active in a forum and thereofre implies that their work is not as good as it was in "the good old days". So that there are a bit heavier reactions than it needs is natural in my eyes.

Tablesaw, therefore when you miss some of the old masters, you must find a way to ask them about why they do not post here (or somewhere else) anymore. And not tell the active ones that they are not as good as the old ones. Tricky I know but it avoids hard feelings.

the majority of the reason i have found (and i have to agree) that people stop posting here is the "popularity" click that goes on around here,and the lack of HONESTY in comments.Simply because you are a "friend" of that person you feel it respectful to tell them there art is above what it really is or whatever.No one can deny that it does happen here,nor can they deny that are not guilty of it themselves.Since i myself have become a vendor over at C3D my comments here have tripled.I know my art isnt any better,it is just the way it is around here.I average 20-30 comments here,where over at C3D i get maybe 5-6.Thats just how it is. most people do not like this type of behavior so they move on.I know quite a few that have left here because they feel there not getting honest feedback.Who can blame them. Some people cannot handle criticism,and you get shit letters in your inbox next day,so it is best to not say anything at all.I feeel there should be no other option to have or not have criticism.If you put your work out there it becomes public domain and therefore open to scrutiny.

Well, there's certainly new and superb art out there..
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1606864
Calum5's work is awesome, found it purely by accident.

The sheer volume of work here makes it hard to cope with at times.

Monsoon,
aye, lot of the Poser art is superbly well done, much better than I can do, but often, I see a superb item, ruined because the character has no expression! You're fighting monsters, posing seductively etc and....characters are in neutral. Terrible waste :(

But man you gotta agree that when you see a popular vendors stuff in the galleries OVER AND OVER AND OVER it is overkill.Buying prefab poses/props/textures slapping it together and calling it art is a buncha crap!!! not unlike playing prefab campaigns in a D&D world.I havent played in years,but i to was a dungeon crawler.It is essentially the same really.Wheres the fun in that? I got so mad sometimes that i really wanted to PM them folks and flame the shit out of them,but it is best to just not open that gallery at all...and keep the piece.To quote some idiot a few years back "Cant we all just get along" And the answer is NO WE CANNOT,not as long as people like us feud over the same things...

    Let me preface by saying that I'm not a great artist, what I do, I do to entertain myself. If others like it, great.  (My art is a hobby that my wife puts up with as it keeps me out of the bars.)
I have no formal training, and everything I've done has been trail and error. I look at pictures I like, then try to figure it out WHY I like it. I stumble along, learning as I go.
     As my background is in Autocad, I don't have the time or skill to learn how to make things myself, other than the simple boolean operations Vue offers. (I'm trying to learn sketch-up now) I can use Photoshop to some degree, but am not a wizard with it.
    Being one that uses the prefab stuff, I have to agree that it can be overdone and overdone very badly. In my defense (and some others that DO use the prefab stuff) I try to find different ways of using what I have, whether by retexturing, cutting parts off of props, etc.
    In essence, I try to make mine.
    Its not the tools one uses, but how they use it. 
    And I agree with Silverblade33 that the expression is probably the most important aspect of the render. Without the expression, then its just a mannequin in a store front window. I'll spend hours trying to capture the expression I'm looking for. Sometimes its the expression that becomes the image.
    (Note: If you're not into big breasted women in the central pose, don't waste your time with the links- does this qualify as a shameless plug?)
     Renderosity, at least to me, is a place to see both the accomplished artist, and the novice. Its a giant gallery in which to showcase ones work. There are seperate wings, dedicated to the particular program that was used to create that art. A lot overlaps, but everyone favors one or several. But unlike a real life gallery, the foyer is continually changing, every few seconds as new art makes its way in. Some of it is good, a few spectacular and quite a bit is what you would expect from people just starting to learn how to use the tools they have. We all wish we had the skill and the eye of the masters, would love to see our stuff with the thousands of feedbacks. But not all of us can be Vallejo, Frazzeta, Parrish, Rembrandt, (---insert favorite artist here---)
     Renderosity is the giant refrigerator that everyone puts their art on, whether from Pre-k to Grand Master
     So no, getting back to Tablesaw's original statement, I don't think we're losing the grandmasters, we're just seeing more and more of those who are either starting out (like me) or those progressing. We have the tools, and we have the will, and we are very dangerous to the eyes and senses!

I have been following this thread and vowed I wasn't going to get involved, but I'd like to comment from Monsoon through Wabe and Trepz's latter posts. Anything after his last post I have not seen so it is not included in this commentary.

First let me state that I agree with Monsoon and others who have said this. This should be a LEARNING environment. Personally, the  pictures I find objectionable are when Poser people are stuck in the middle of the screen without much work done on them especially half clad to titilate. I'm not against nudity in art. I have a nude gallery. What I don't like is lowering nudity as an art form so it verges on porn. Yes, I know we could have a whole discussion on what is porn, but I think the people who produce pictures to titulate others know what I am talking about..

I, also, object to bashing of other people. There is no place in a forum for this. Let's stick to ideas and grow with and from them.

I used to put up work in my Rendo gallery. I don't bother any more. I got tired of some of the comments so I put them all in a Vue gallery on my website. I consider myself an artist. I have worked in the field professionally on and off since my early twenties. I have shown my photographs in galleries in NYC and sold prints all over the world. So if this makes me a professional in some eyes, hurray. To me the definition of a professional artists does not need to revolve around selling of their work. Some people who call themselves artists sell like crazy and their work is just churned out crap. I am not speaking about work to sell and work for oneself. I know that often to sell, certain types of work need to be produced, but in one's spare time, one works differently. That is not what I am addressing.

 If don't work on an image, a little of me feels like it is dying. I feel unfulfilled. I need to do art work. I have studied hard and long and taught various forms of art. I do not believe to be a professional one has to go to art school, but one must study and learn. I have taught subjects from Kindergarten to College Level. The love of learning has always been a point I have stressed as well as creativity regardless of the field. I started teaching in the slums of NYC and have also been subject to "hard knocks" as well as debilitating migraine headaches. It either makes one stronger or breaks one.

If comments were actually constructive, I'd put my work up again, but I have felt why bother, one can go to my gallery and e-mail me or IM me if they want.

Anyway, enough. Let's be constructive here and grow. If somebody says they don't feel that the art work is as good as it used to be, that is a valid point if the point was made to start a good discussion on why or not why  this is the case and what is the purpose of this forum. Let's just not get personal and let's use this forum as a GROWTH tool.  I am not pointing any fingers. I am speaking in general as regards this thread as well as others.

My apologies in advance for the disruption of this thread.

I am closing it down temporarily to give me time to review it and decide what to do about it.

I saw the original post had a deleted comment, which made it look like the original post was canceled. I lost track of the thread since and didn't get ebots about new posts.

Threads like this one have rarely turned into a positive direction.

It is the age old debate between different definition of Art, between those who expect only quality work and members with different experience, motivation, time.... the beauty of the current democratization of 3D software is that these tools are really accessible for anyone to express themselves.

There are other more elitist sites out there if you are only interested in reviewed and curated work, whatever that means.