To fill a position as part of my Army Of Darkness, as I had one of my testers drop out, due to no time. If youre interested, hold on... you need to read this thread carefully, coz I wont take just anyone. I R picky.

You need EXPERIENCE. Anyone who submits an app without prior testing experience will be rejected. I simply dont have the time to train people. And considering my packs are so large, and contain so much different content including more difficult things like posable figures and such, experience is a necessity.

I hate to limit this language wise, but you must be fluent in English. If I cant understand you, I cannot take you on coz of the language barrier. And when testing, we will need to understand each other.

You need to tell me what apps you will be testing with - and having POSER 5 or higher is a must (as I dont really suppot DS at this time)

I will not be taking any merchants on. Reason being, its a conflict of interest, and while Id love the experience a merchant would have, I fear that being a merchant could get in the way of your testing.

You will have to sign up on my forum, as that is where all my testing is done (on the backend, in a private forum no one but the testers can see) So if you are accepted, and you dont have an acct, youll need to make one. You can get to my forum here: http://damageinc3d.net/phpBB/index.php

Salary: There is none. You are paid by getting to keep all the packs you test. And if you know who I am, you know that those are usually HUGE. If you stay on the team long enuff, you will also receive other perks, such as GC's to my private store, to get stuff which you havent gotten to test. Youll also be under the moderator mask, which means you have power (and all I will say is use it responsibly)

Anyone who applies and makes it, will be required to sign an NDA. All this basically does is ensure you dont tell trade secrets, or blurt in public what the current testing jobs are or the titles of my packs (as Im a very keep it on the downlow kinna girl, til something releases) And since I work for RDNA, there are things that I occasionally do with that, which may need to be kept private.

Heres the app... fill 'er out here, or drop it in email to me (IgnisSerpentus@aol.com)

Application For Beta Testing

Full Name:

Email Address:

Software:

Merchants/Brokerages you've tested for/Past Experience:

If you have any questions, dont hesitate to ask

OH and PS: Since theres only one position open, Ill be accepting all applications, then making a final decision later (so everyone has a chance to submit) I will notify everyone via email when I have made that decision (so no one will be left hanging and wondering)

Well now, if every merchant requires prior testing experience, how does one ever get experience in the first place?  You have no idea that I'm a bad tester just because I've never tested with someone before.  Additionally, how do you know that other merchants "trained" people in the way that you want them trained?

That said, good luck to you in finding a tester that suits your needs!  Your stuff is always quite awesome.

Some merchants DONT require testing experience... I on the other hand, do. I run a website, my own store, all the product making, my life, my kid, the house and Im sure I could think of other stuff, but for fear of rambling, Ill stop there. Point being, I just dont have time at the end of the day to train people to beta test. And where my packs are so large, and include difficult things, such as posable and conforming figures that not everyone understands the inner workings of, I require testing experience. It makes it all the less hard when it comes to the more difficult and technical stuff.

That said, Im sorry if that bothers you... but it is what it is. But thanks for the good luck anyway....

If you think that's the way you've got to go about your "hiring", that's completely your prerogative.  No, it doesn't bother me.  It's just too bad for you, because I (or someone like me) could've been the best beta tester you ever had! ;)

I'm not sure how you thought complaining about  a requirement would even have a purpose? True she doesnt know if you're a bad testers on the other hand she has no way to know your a good one either. As for the second question, it isnt a matter of training, it's a matter of them knowing what the job will entail and having references to check. Some merchants may not require that but obviously Ignes does....she needs people with experience in EVERYTHING not just seam checking...but people with rigging knowledge, mapping knowledge, as well as the ability to seam check. Alot of those things most people would have no need or want to know hense needing references and experience. And even then it doesnt mean you'll have the right skillset...depends on who you have tested for and what type of packs those people made.

In the end a requirement is a requirement....sometimes requirements suck but thats life...theres all kinds of things in life that require certain knowledge and in this case she needs someone with technical abilities so for her hiring someone with no experience would be like hiring someone to do web design without knwoing whether they have coding experience...

I wouldnt feel insulted by it...she just needs a person/people with a certain skillset that only experience can ensure.

Don't mistake a question for a complaint.  First post ever and it's to respond to my idle musings while waiting for a render to spin?  Wow!  Cool!

In other idle speculation, isn't this the kind of post better served by the Jobs/Resumes forum?  It's a job, and it certainly requires a resume.

#1: A job pays money - I dont. I pay in products.... tangible goods that may be worth money, but do not translate as a salary.

#2: It doesnt require a resume, with past jobs and experience... it only requires experience as a tester. Im not calling and verifying references over here... Im just asking for people who know how to test already.

#3: If the placement of this thread was a problem, Im sure the mods would have moved it. And should they wish to, it would be fine with me. I felt the community center was the best placement.... but then, I dont go on here much (for this very reason, ironically enuff) so I could be wrong.

#4: What you see as idle speculation and pure inquisitiveness, I see as passive/aggressive behavior that is counterproductive to what this thread is actually for.

#5: If this was an attempt to get me to change my mind about my requirements, or take you even inexperienced as you are, it was a very poor way of doing so. Arguing and proving my methods as fallacies isnt necessarily going to sit well with me. You have already demonstrated that your retorts to things are argumentative in nature. And I dont wish to have someone like that on board, which is exactly why I screen. Thanks for vindicating me further in my wishes.

So with all due respect, please just drop it. And allow the people that wish to apply, to do just that.

All this from asking a simple question "why?" from someone who enjoys your art and products?

The only passive aggressiveness I see in here is your last response.  If you're so offended by a question or two, maybe you shouldn't post on a message board where they can be posted!  Sheesh!

Don't worry, you can consider me done with this thread.

Sorry, I lied I'm not done. :(

I wanted to come back and apologize for my last response.  I let your previous post get to me, and honestly there was no ill intent from the get-go.  I think that's why it bothered me because you assumed I was your typical Renderosity forum troll.

You're busy, I'm busy, we're all busy.  Everybody's tired.  I enjoy your art and your products.  In short, I am sorry if my previous question(s) seemed passive agressive to you because they were not intended to be so.

There, I swear, I'm done with this thread.

Have a great night!

Quote - All this from asking a simple question "why?" from someone who enjoys your art and products?

The only passive aggressiveness I see in here is your last response.  If you're so offended by a question or two, maybe you shouldn't post on a message board where they can be posted!  Sheesh!

Don't worry, you can consider me done with this thread.

No all this isnt from asking a simple why...you didnt ask why it was a requirement,.

Quote, "Well now, if every merchant requires prior testing experience, how does one ever get experience in the first place?  You have no idea that I'm a bad tester just because I've never tested with someone before.  Additionally, how do you know that other merchants "trained" people in the way that you want them trained?"

Um where is the why in there? No where do I see someone asking why she decided that, instead what I see is  a statement arguing how she was wrong for requiring it  O.o If you would have approached it as "May I ask why you have that requirement as I would really have liked to apply and cant...or maybe asked if there was a way to show your skillset even though you didnt have experience....that would be a different story and would have invoked a different responce.

But you didnt approach her that way...you approached her by starting your dialog with her having to defend her policies....not the best way to invoke thought from anyone

Hope you find a testing job if you truely are searching for one....

WoW ... I can hardly see anything ...  this message thread raised a lot of dust. 

As long as everyone is having so much 'fun', I think I'll add a little bit more ...

1. As regards experience v. capability ...

I have been a computer programmer since 1958 ... so, what do I know? 

I have run into the 'experience barier' many, many times ... OTOH, I have even been
called in for a job interview simply because the interviewer thought I couldn't have
that much experience ... and that he thought he would 'expose' me ... instead, I got
that job. 

1. As regards inquiring about a job requirement ...

I am certain that Giolon was correct in his initial response when he said,

Well now, if every merchant requires prior testing experience, how does one
ever get experience in the first place? 

Exactly my point!!!

You have no idea that I'm a bad tester just because I've never tested with
someone before. 

Also a very corect statement. 

1. If it is true that IgnisSerpentus has these requirements,

it only requires experience as a tester.

It doesnt require a resume, with past jobs and experience

A job pays money - I dont. I pay in products

Then I would say, Exactly what is the risk to IgnisSerpentus? 

... Some food for thought.  And maybe less dust ... next time, too. 

Comments ... please ...

--
Martin

I never insinuated anyone was bad at testing... just that I wish them to be experienced. What is the freakin big deal about that?!?! Are you people angry coz you cant apply for it or something? Coz if so, Im sorry, but hey, thats life. Would you do this to a potential employer?? No, youd accept it and move on. But since this is a community where anything goes, you think that its okay to question my methods and even make a big stink about it. Well, its not okay, and Im not putting up with it. Fact, at this point Id delete the thread if I had the power.

As far as the risk goes, well, first of all, there is giving my products away to someone who isnt doing the job properly. And I dont just give products, but Gift Certificates to my private store. Why would I pay someone to NOT do the job correctly? Then theres having to fire them later on, rather than skip that whole unsavory situation to begin with. Then theres someone continuously arguing with me during testing... I dont want these things in my testing pit... and THATS MY PEROGATIVE!

I am done with this thread. If you dont have experience, youre not in, P E R I O D. Thats all there is to say about it.... and next time I need a tester, I will not be posting about it here. So thank you, for ruining it for everyone else....

just to agree - always get references from beta testers, otherwise one risks having
a dearth of critical input during testing, followed by the release of a bug-laden
product, which is then blamed on the vendor rather than on the beta-testers.

it's the old axiom - one needs experience to get a job, unless some daring individual
is willing to hire someone based on faith, hope or charity.

Thanks Miss Nancy.... at least someone understands where Im coming from.

hi! afaik there's three different kinds of testing poser stuff. there's merchants who ... a) just want to be sure that everything loads properly. b) trade freebies for compliments. c) want somebody to check their products for flaws. if c) ... i'm interested. ;) you ask for knowledge and experience - i got both! BUT: a product beta is work, not a reward. since you do not want to give your knowledge and skills for free i am sure you will understand that i will not work for a 'thank you' too. should you be willing to pay me, then pls contact me via sitemail. rgds A.

Actually I do give my knowledge... and I have tons of Poser knowledge. And yes... a product is a reward. And gift certificates to buy anything on my store are also rewards.

But the position has been filled.

Thanks

I am sorry but I have to jump in here, Barb is more than generous as payment for our services as Beta Testers.

I do not feel put upon, & I work damn hard to ensure the products are properly tested.

i think beta testers need to be experience to some degree dependant on the product, if you are just testing backgrounds or psd's to make sure they load then they need far less testing, however, IgnisSerpentus has clearly stated that her packs are big and contain conforming figs and therefore a whole lot more work from the beta tester is needed.

**I think she is right to ask what she's asked, i might well do the same, lol afterall its our products that we have spent so much time and effort on which need testing to make sure everything is 100% correct, we dont want the broker or even the customer to come back stating that everything is not fine, its the merchants reputation on the line. **

A beta tester should see themselves as a quality controller and those who are should realise the level of quality that is needed, EG.  its not ok to just render 1 or 2 pics of a character set just to see how it turns out, you have to render multiple areas to see if seams are flawless.

At the end of it all, IgnisSerpentus has the right to ask for certain "qualifications" and those who do not have it should read and move on or go and try elsewhere where a merchant is prepared to accept a beta tester with no previous experience and train them up.

hey, sure you (and ignis) are absolutely right! a noob can't test a product, because he doesn't have enough experience and knowledge to tell left from right... still, a product beta doesn't pay for knowledge or the invested time. it's like going to the dentist for the 6-months-check and you tell him:"hey, dude, you can keep what you find, ok?" see?

Wus.. LMFAO that is quite possibly the most stupid analogy Ive ever seen. No one would expect a dentist to keep their teeth as payment. On the other hand, if Ralph Lauren offered me all his clothing for free that I tested... you can be damn sure Id jump on that. See? :snickers:

talking 'bout analogies ... who's ralph lauren and who are you? selfconfidence is a good thing to have, but overdoing it leads hardly ever to a good end, especially in public. but this is definitely OT... what i mean is basically: the reward for work is money. M-O-N-E-Y-! and qualified work takes a lot of money - that's the way it is...

No... this is the way it is...

You didnt get hired. SOOOO Its a MOOT point. Those that did get hired, were willing to work for said products. You can have that opinion til youre blue in your face, the bottom line is... it doesnt matter what you think. You didnt get the job...

not to get an unpaid job isn't much of a loss...snickers

Neither is the lack of your experience. Checkmate... thanks for playing....

how can you judge my experience? why do you insult me? have you nothing left for throwing than dirt?

Let the punishment fit the crime.

I see you have nothing better to do than question my methods, when you claim it doesnt matter. It obviously does.... or you wouldnt still be responding. Sorry for peeing in your cheerios, mate...

I judge your experience by your actions... the permeance of your experience just reeks from your most mature presence. At this point, even if you did, and I paid money... I still wouldnt take you on. But okay.... lets say for $hits and giggles, you answer me these questions, which will reflect your so called "knowledge" unto me....

What is goal center of mass... and what does it do to conforming/posable figures?

How do you parent a figure?

Whats an inverted normal? How do you fix it?

How do you stop a poly burst?

Yeah, s'what I thot....

"sorry for peeing in your cheerios" .................HAHAHA!!

i am writing that one down, i may well need that one day!!

(but i am definately not ever coming to your house for breakfast now!)

LMAO vince

"how do you stop a poly burst?"

-Don't overfeed the parrot.

(and so the jokes in crackers gig was mine!!)

hahahaha very cute

what crime?

that is one well trained kitty!!

i have been tickling her? nose for a couple of minutes now, with my mouse pointer and she? hasn't flinched once.

i think she? is far away in her? imagination wondering what an exploding parrot sounds like.

is that the kitty in your snowglobe?

well i only got his she?fullness wrong four times though!!

so it was still a pretty good guess.