A friend of mine and i looked around at the range of poser books avaible and found 2 both of which by the same person and slaged something rotten, so we said to ourselves we can do better and thought what would others like to see, so i have come here asking, what do you think should be in a new poser book, i know tutorials but what sort, what style of tutorials, what subject needs the most clearing up on and which ones have not been touched at all, all suggestion will be marked and research and put into the book. Lets see if we can make this book right.

I would like something that blew through the basics, then spent time on the more advanced stuff. Everything in one place would make it very useful. Figure creation, joint setup, comforming figures, Morphs (particularly FBM and JCM) - and how to deal with the issues these have. Magnets, and an effective use of the wave deformer. CR2 internals and how to do fancy stuff with them. Use of CR2editor and CR2edit. Good hair creation (layered transparancy), use of UVmapper. Lighting examples (5 or more), with various options showing how the scene changes when you start using lighting corectly vs the poser default. All of these need available files showing it in various stages so people can follow along and try to reproduce it.

Anything but those god-awful morphs that Mortimer uses in every damn book he writes. He even managed to get those little horrors into his Bryce book.

Totally advanced. There are enough books and tutorials for beginners. What kevin said and more. Building a character from scratch. Not a stick man or a thing made from cylinders and spheres. Something that takes you right into the thick of it. 'The Pro Poser Bible' covering everything. Maybe even a joint effort between many of the advanced users like Phil C, dacort and Bushi. With indepth articles and tutorials from Curious Labs about the inards of the program and advice from Daz about joint setup and character/figure creation.

I just skimmed the Pro Pack book at B&N tonight, and a couple observations struck me. First, effective demonstrations of some features can't be done as effectively in static media. A RealPlayer slideshow with embedded movies would work a hell of a lot better. Second, these books are at a disadvantage because whether it's the reasonably well-written Pro Pack f/x book or the excreta of R. Shamms Mortier (folks, how bad could your first name be that 'Shamms' is preferable?), they both mistakenly assume their readers have no internet access and have never read an online tutorial or asked a question on the forums, so they spend considerable time reinventing the wheel. There really isn't that much in PPPf/x that's Pro Pack specific. This is my plea to CL: put their manual in RealPlayer multimedia on our hard drives at installation and a copy on CD. Show more, tell less.

so an Ebook with movies showing expamles would be a bonus do people think. A point that has to be said, yes there are a lot of basic info out there on the net but if a book is to be complete it needs to cover these things as well, so a large book with 3 main sections of basic, intermedate and advance with things like detailed (i think that is needed as well plus the emc info) put in the right places within those groups, does this sound like a good idea?

I absolutely agree with Colm. If I were you, I would call the book something like "Advanced Poser Techniques" and stick to that. I, for one, would not want to spend money on information that is in the manual. I would like to second the idea of getting some of the "experts" in the field to contribute tutorials. Traveler (Morphs)and Kozaburo (Hair)come to mind immediately. Syyd on Textures (though I think she could write a whole book on this by herself wink). Best of luck your excellent idea. And by the way, there are a LOT more experts than those I have mentioned. These just leapt into my mind first :))

Actually I would like the choice of paper and/or ebook. More animation please and more on morphs. Marque

And how about QuickTime (which is cross platform) instead of RP, which runs like sludge on a Mac?

Hi Folks! There needs to be more extensive coverage of techniques for importing custom objects and textures in Poser. On a Mac, props created from Infini-D .dxf files and other 3D modelling applications can be converted into .obj format using the Painter 3D app that came with the CD. But I'm sure there are other ways. Since most of us are frequently looking for things to use for filling our Poser scenes, a section on how to do this is very important. Peter (Dr Zik)

I would really like to see more how-to stuff...like the visual quick guides that are for sale. I don't want to wade through a long project, I would like to be able to look up a technique and get the particulars on it, with the ability to go into it deeper or just check something out to see if I'm on the right track. A lot of books now show you stuff you will NEVER use, I don't know why they do that...like those faces in the poser 4 handbook. I think it would be great to break some of it down into steps so the newbie can use it as well as someone who has an idea of what they are doing but just needs their brain kicked into gear. Marque

atthisstage: Compromise; how about a manual in Acrobat with embedded QuickTime movies?

What Kevin and Colm said. Paper book with big ol' CD with the demonstrations and movies on it, as well as example files to examine--you know, the CR2s, phi's and stuff like that. Importing into Poser--and also exporting into Bryce! Heck, you could go through the forums & look at the most-asked questions to get an idea of what people need to hear. Also, hook the book/CD up to a web site. ...Now, THIS is sounding like a community effort to me!

Duane, I wouldn't embed them, because then, if I wanted to look at a particular one, I'd have to open acrobat, open the file, wade through the file to find the film, then watch it. I want instant gratification, damn it! (grin). Seriously, I'd prefer the films kept separate for individual study.

I have yet to see a poser book with a decent index. An index should have at least an entry for every page where a technical term or jargon is defined and any significant usages of the term.The Kitchens and Gavenda Bryce book is much more humane.

Hi fellas no one is mentioning anything about animation. I think more emphasis should be laid on poser's unique animation capabilities. There is so much info on the web and elsewhere addressing textures, morphs, clothes, figure setup etc but none that gives animation the attention it deserves. I believe that with the the right models, props and scenery one could produce a marketable movie with poser alone. Most of the resources are available from all of our peers on this wonderful forum except in depth dissection of poser animation. I think that in addition to everything mentioned and suggested by every one else, the book should also suceed in addressing issues like,.."...Goodness how did they do that ?!!!! " that we digest every day on TV and in theatres. A " How To" book might not neccesarily be the solution , but sections of the book should address some basic and advanced how tos. Like special effects, camera effects and direction, composition, screen direction, lighting, scene designing, importing into terrain generation software( ...what some on called "handshaking" :-) !!! ), output to web, film and tape etc. Come on fellas. I know we all got attracted to 3D for one reason. To express our imagination. I know preety well that we all itch to make our own movie some day. Poser CAN do it. You don't need Maya or Houdini to do it. There is an audience out there waiting to see your stuff. All we need is total mastery of our movie studio, POSER. ....My five cents.

atthisstage: In order to embed QT movies into Acrobat files, the movies have to live in the same directory as the PDF. Embedding merely creates a link to the movie, it doesn't actually encode them into the PDF. So, you can have your cake and eat it too.

Actually, Ike, I concur. When I started using Poser for animation purposes, it was like, "Okay, what do I do now?" I once spent an entire afternoon carefully working out a lip synch (not using Mimic, since the b********s won't issue it for Mac) on a frame by frame basis, only to find out that I had to put in the body movements first, then address the phenomes. The results were spectacular once it was finally done, but for those 25 seconds of 10fps animation, it was real guesswork part... hell, most of the time. Now, I use it as test work for choreographers in tandem with my other theatre previsualization services, and I can tell you, it works damn well once you get the animation stuff down. But to that: if it's going to happen any deeper, then I think CL needs to revisit the IK. I've noticed that some very strange things have a tendency to happen between key frames, stuff that really defies logical explanation when all you're doing is moving an arm from here to here. I suppose, with that, it would be nice (Curious, are you listening here?) if they could put in something that tells you when two figures have overlapped someplace. Multiple character animation right now in Poser is almost absurd because it's nigh onto impossible to tell when one figure has blended into another, let alone where the blending has taken place, until the render is seen.

Yo, atthisstage !!!. Yep! it's pretty funny and downright annoying sometimes to realise that your hours of animation in poser turns out to be infested with overlaps, creases, bends and all sorts of artefacts :-{ !!!!. Yeah some would argue that you are not animating right. But then again where are the reference materials for one to animate right in poser or to turn to in times of distress judging by poser's unique animation interface and IK. Even the poser manual dedicates a pathetic twenty-something pages to animation and the editing graph system. Yeah poser might not be as robust as other "high end" softwares out there (...what is high end anyway? ), but hey, it can do the job. There are scores of books out there talking about animation in specific softwares ( Maya, 3D Max, Lightwave etc ) And they say it on their covers too :-) !!!! Moreover, it's kind of difficult sometimes to translate some of the tips gleaned from these books into poser. Yes I share your point 150% about poser's IK. Honestly it seems to know when best to annoy you with overlaps and figures that seem to defy gravity :-] !!!! Curious Labs should look into it if poser is to rise from the back room it's been pushed into. But in the mean time I believe we all can overide the limitations somehow by way of having all these wonderful, expert poser folks look into it and publish information about it. Today, poser can be imported into 3D Max and Lightwave. What else could one wish for? With poser's ease of animation and better rendering offered by these softwares, infinity and beyond should be the limit :-) !!!!!! I for one, I'm still doing my home work and researching into mastering poser animation, overlaps and all !!! It's really very refreshing to hear your woes with poser animation too. And hey. How do you know we are the only people? I think it's about time a book addressed poser A-N-I-M-A-T-I-O-N and less of poser P-O-S-I-N-G. Let's make 'em move !!!!!

Ike: I just had a horrible thought. We could be inflicting the world with megs and megs of animation of Victoria taking her clothes off or walking around in these absurd slinky little things one find in the freebie sections... or worse, "Voluptuous Vickie" jogging and these boys spending hours making sure the breasts bounce just so.... Maybe we don't want to encourage animation that much..... JOKE, PEOPLE, JUST A JOKE

Hey atthisstage you're killing me. I'm cracking up with laughter over here !!!!!!!!. Well, we'll keep animating as we anxiously anticipate the coming of the BIG BOOK :-) !!!!. Hopefully it will hit the shelves someday. Meanwhile I wish Idova the best of luck while researching and writing the book. Honestly, I think it's a pretty ambitious project, but one that is VERY worthwhile 'cos poser has survived up till today due to the dedication and ingenuity of it's users ( like Idova ) despite lack of deep documentation. So enjoy writing the book Idova !!! The rest of us will keep the candle burning :-)!!!!!!

I think there should be sections on how to create 3d objects in obj format just using a text editor and spreadsheet. Most people have these basic tools but don't have modelling programs like Max. Then there should be a section explaining the pecularities of the poser rendering engine and what you have to do to get sharp edges. A section on web resources (out of date as soon as you write it, so maybe it should be an insert rather than hard stitched into the book). Sections on utilities. Sections on lighting, posing. Miscellaneous tips like how to best set focal length for different effects.

Some Proposed Chapter Titles: Conforming-It not just for sheep (How to put those Props/Clothes on and Make 'em Stick. Smart Props can go here too(?)) I'm Not Lost! I Have a Map! (UVMapping, Transmapping Trick and Tips of the Experts) These Joints Aren't Jumping! (How to work the Joint Editor and Bend Zones) Bend Me, Shape Me, Anyway You Want Me....(The proper handling of Magnets and Wave Deformers and Morph Creation/Usage) You Light Up My Life (Lighting the Scene) Wild Thing-You Move Me (Animating the Poser World) It's Alive! Alive! (Figure Creation-From Start to Finish) She Blinded Me With Science (JCM, FBM and .CR2 type stuff here) Hair! Long Beautiful hair...(Should come after the mapping chapter) These are a bit silly, but I like the concept of an all in one thing, sort of like the RAY DREAM HANDBOOK-2nd Ed., but with lots more stuff!! nfredman: You did say CDs (plural), right? :)

dlfurman, i would go for CD(s), plural. Heck at this point we could probably do: Volume I: everything for stills that you-all have mentioned above, and Volume II: for animation. An ambitious project, but why not? Me, i'm more of a book and web site production guy...

Go for it nfredman !!!!. It would be an absolute KILL to have a CD in each volume :-) !!!!

I like the idea of a good, old-fashioned paper book. It's easier to read, and easier to reference. I like the idea of concentrating on the advanced features, assuming that the reader has read the manual (and maybe even tried the tutorial). How-to's (tutorials) would be the most important thing. If there is a CD, it would be great to get permission from the creators of the most-often used utilities (Morph Manager, UVMapper and MartinC's Mac utilities, for starters) to be included on the CD. It would help people who are just starting to go beyond the basics (one of the chief audiences for the book). I like the type of organization that dlfurnam suggests. That would super helpful. Getting the community to contribute sections would be a fantastic idea, too. Sounds like a great project. - JimX

If it's going to be in a paper format (which, natch, it should be), I'd suggest following the presentation format used in the Photoshop WOW books: step by step, good visuals for every step, screen captures of any settings used to create whatever effect is being pursued. A lot of us, even after four versions of this software, are still learning the basics (I know, I know, such a slow learner...), and even though the interface has gotten easier to handle, it's still pretty daunting the first time out. This was the biggest thing that annoys the hell out of me about the Mortimer book. He doesn't explain anything with any thoroughness. He just presents his weird little... whatever they are..., shows us how to make them (Oh yeah, like any of that stuff is useful...), praises his "master users", and expects us to fill in the blanks while not giving us much to work with. I hope that whoever takes on this challenge looks at the Mortimer book and sees it as a shining example of what not to do. Insofar as the posts here, I think all of this is an excellent start to putting together something. Now, who wants to pick up that ball and start running? I'd be delighted to submit my animation work, along with tutorials on how to get there. I'm sure others around here would be happy to contribute their knowledge on making clothing and creating deformers. There's a wealth of knowledge sitting right here, gang. Who wants to get it all moving?

Yet another idea for content: how to use the stuff I just downloaded. There are always a few posts here about applying Transmaps (and turning the Transparency options to Max) and Textures (including a few tricks like they can be applied differently to the different materials). - JimX

Everything covered here would be a delight to see in a good Poser manual. Attn: Duane ... I am not sure exactly what Mortier's actual firt name is, but Rotwriter would be my guess.