erm Tom? nothing was done until 2006.

you commented in the very thread in 2006 - http://poserpros.daz3d.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=50562 to refresh your memory.

sorry..

I wasn't going to enter into this but I do have to point out that even after finalising the TOS into something more concrete than a bunch of ill defined concepts the site had been running under even when I came on board as a member of staff... nothing much changed in how we ran the site.

The formalised TOS was the idea of the PP staff (due to problems we were having with some newer members and SPAMmers) and then we informed Daz once we had instigated it ... not the other way round. So the assertion that the Admins and mods would agree we were influenced by Daz policies is a little presumptuous. I don't think we'd agree at all. We were influenced by the needs of PoserPros.

As far as I'm concerned, the site (and the Coop) went on as it always did without the need to change the TOS again. (Half the time I had no idea what the hell you guys were going on about anyway - especially the politcal stuff.)

Thanks for that link Khai. I haven't read that thread in a while. Which reminds me - IB owes me $20.

Quote - I wasn't going to enter into this but I do have to point out that even after finalising the TOS into something more concrete than a bunch of ill defined concepts the site had been running under even when I came on board as a member of staff... nothing much changed in how we ran the site.

The formalised TOS was the idea of the PP staff (due to problems we were having with some newer members and SPAMmers) and then we informed Daz once we had instigated it ... not the other way round. So the assertion that the Admins and mods would agree we were influenced by Daz policies is a little presumptuous. I don't think we'd agree at all. We were influenced by the needs of PoserPros.

As far as I'm concerned, the site (and the Coop) went on as it always did without the need to change the TOS again. (Half the time I had no idea what the hell you guys were going on about anyway - especially the politcal stuff.)

Thanks for that link Khai. I haven't read that thread in a while. Which reminds me - IB owes me $20.

100% Agree, It was run as it had been just with tighter reigns based on the Admin and Moderator's discussions on what would be best for PoserPros and the members/merchants. Daz has always trusted the team in place when it came to decisions being made.

L.

conniekat8 -

I read from the PP postings by the merchants themselves, that some are going to these places:
DDU
3-DArena
CG-Odyssey
and of course variously at Content Paradise and Renderosity as well.

Just curious. What is happening to the Poser Pro's mod and admin status. Are you guys becoming Daz mods/admins or are your positions being retired? Simply, after the change, are you no longer mods and admins?

To be honest our main concern is still PoserPros and will be until we close the doors. We'll deal with whatever happens next after that.

I hope that the products that don'tend up on artzone don't get spead around to too many places. I'm having hard enough time keeping up with just 5-7 of the main marketplaces. Most of the smaller ones, I never get to them :(     

I'd hate to see good product disappear from mainstream chanelles. I hope they come here or 3D commune. Maybe CP (but it looks like they are pretty specific with only wanting models for their own figures. Maybe another, somewhat neutral Mega-Maketplace arises....

One of the reasons I tend to stick atround Rendo is that of the major MP's, they are relatively 'figure-neutral', and allow for variety.  I tend to be more practical (for what my goals are) then 'brand loyal'

CP take products for any character, including some of the lesser known ones. But those people who do support the G2 figures (me included) put products there for preference because it makes sense to have those products in the same shop as the figures. And Apollo has his big forum there, so there are Apollo things. I would guess people who are making skins for Vicki would probably opt for the AZM for preference.

A lot of the things I make, landscape props, shaders and stuff, are store-neutral, and they go to CP just cos I like it there.

Probably Renderosity is indeed the most neutral of the big stores now for character add-ons, purely because they don't have any 'official store characters'. But Cp takes things fpr DAZ people, and now the AZM is going to take things for CP people. The way it ends up is just cos it makes marketing sense when vendors are choosing a store.

*CP take products for any character, including some of the lesser known ones. But those people who do support the G2 figures (me included) put products there for preference because it makes sense to have those products in the same shop as the figures.

*Actually, based on my direct communication with CP's vendor contact, about this subject just few weeks ago, they are only interested in vendors whom support their figures. Maybe there we willing to accept more variety in the past, or give their established vendors more latitude in what product they accept. Someone whom hasn't been selling there already is not likely to get accepted right now ith Daz or independent figure content.

*And Apollo has his big forum there, so there are Apollo things.

Yes, I know, I'm one of the more active participants there (please do come visit us and catch up). What I found extremely odd is that with CP hosting Apollo's forum, they were not interested in Apollo products. This is without even bothering to ask, let's see what it looks like.

Prolly because Anton kinda burned his bridges with them? It's lucky the Apollo forum didn't just get closed over there.

"You don't spit into the wind..."

I've been there for a while, so I'm not sure what criteria they are using to choose between vendors. But of the ones who are there, RDNA certainly support both CP and DAZ figures, as does Netherworks. Sixus are all original content that is outside of the store figures; meshbox do architecture, Vanishing point does lots of different things, there's someone who does music tracks, and lots of people doing 2d photoshop content.

I've got an Apollo character there (as you probably know; yes,I'm sorry I haven't stopped by or done anything new for Apollo - I've got a Koji fixation at the moment and each character seems to lead me into another one.... but I'll be back around) and people who are already brokering there have no editorial interference on what they choose to sell. I seem to recollect that my Apollo character got a slot in either the newsletter or the front page, so they can't have been too offended by him.

I'm sorry they weren't keen on Apollo products; I suppose if there's a queue they'd give preference to people who do at least some support for their things. There are several brokerages who operate through CP as well as running their own stores - perhaps one of those would be interested? Since there's no particular requirement for exclusivity (AFAIK), you wouldn't have anything to lose by asking them.

Quote - Prolly because Anton kinda burned his bridges with them? It's lucky the Apollo forum didn't just get closed over there.

They're not singling out Apollo, so let's try not to slant the the discussion into that direction.

*I'm sorry they weren't keen on Apollo products; I suppose if there's a queue they'd give preference to people who do at least some support for their things. There are several brokerages who operate through CP as well as running their own stores - perhaps one of those would be interested? Since there's no particular requirement for exclusivity (AFAIK), you wouldn't have anything to lose by asking them.

*Yeah, I don't what their motivation is. I asked them what the process was of becoming a vendor there. Rather then giving me or pointing me to some sort of general guidelines, they asked for a sample of work (literally, in one curt sentence). I sent them a pic of the latest three things I made (one for Apollo, one for V3, one for V4, and gave them a link to the freebies I've offered which I think are a decent cross section of my skills)

Their response, again curt, was that they are only looking for vendors whom make things for their figures at this time (G2 males, Miki, Koji, Sidney).  I sent back a queston asking about interest in props, and being that they host apollo forum, if they support him. I got no response to that email.  The shortness and curtness and unhelpfulness of their responses left me under the impression that they're not all that interested in new work, or new vendors or expansion. At this point, even if I make something for their figures, I'm not very likely to approach them again.

I'll be selling here, and few other places. I was approached by couple of places to sell with them and see how things go after they saw my work elsewhere (Rendo being one of them), before I approached them, and I'm not a beginner in 3D (Poser 3D is a stepdown from the 3D I do at work), so I'm not exactly hurting for CP's favors.

Anyway, I digressed too much into talking about my side of things, that was not waht I really wanted to get into.
What I was coming from was that I was wondering if CP was going to treat other vendors this way. Mainly those whom may be coming from Poser Pro's after not making the DAZ cut.

I think it depends who you ask. In any of the brokerages there'll be some people who've had a bad experience and others who think the sun shines out of...

I can only speak for myself; I have found them to be on a par with the lamented Poser pros with fast, relevant and courteous replies to queries, to give me a fair crack of the whip in promotions, and to have a high sales turnover in general.

I have found one or two of those things in other places, but not all three. Other people's experience may well be different.

I think most if not all of the people who make their way over from Poser pros may well choose to sign up with one of the partners who have already opened dialogues. Which isn't a bad way to go; I was working through Netherworks for about a year before Joe found that he hadn't got time to make anything cos he was so busy looking after us and we all set out as solo artists :)

I still think 'not making the DAZ cut' isn't fair. There are lots of reasons to choose a broker (mine were listed above) and I'd hate to see anyone who makes a non-DAZ choice, be it CP, Rendo, or wherever being tarred with 'it's here cos it wasn't good enough for DAZ'. Because it's not necessarily true. There's some brilliant artists right here at Renderosity who are just as good as the guys at DAZ. But they choose to be here. I've got products at DAZ. But right now I choose to be mostly at CP.

*I still think 'not making the DAZ cut' isn't fair. There are lots of reasons to choose a broker (mine were listed above) and I'd hate to see anyone who makes a non-DAZ choice, be it CP, Rendo, or wherever being tarred with 'it's here cos it wasn't good enough for DAZ'. Because it's not necessarily true. There's some brilliant artists right here at Renderosity who are just as good as the guys at DAZ. But they choose to be here. I've got products at DAZ. But right now I choose to be mostly at CP.

*I'm not saying that everyone whom isn't at DAZ is 'not good enough'. That's taking what I said and broadening it into a meaning that was never intended.

I'm talking about DAZ's email which everyone who get DAZ's promo email recieved. In this email they're talking about products from Poser Pro's which meet DAZ product guidelines will be assimilated into Art Zone marketplace. I'm talking about a very specific situation, not about generalities about what various vendors choose or don't choose.

We're talking about DAZ product guidelines, which I gather includes (for the most part) whatever fits their artistic vision. I'm in no way suggesting that 'not making the DAZ cut' means someone's work is inferior in some fashion and I'd appreciate if you didn't keep trying to twist it into this meaning.

It seems to me that you are the one that somehow thinks that not falling into DAZ product guidelines would be in some way inferior, because that line of resoning has never crossed my mind. I just don't feel like typing DAZ product guidelines over and over again, and decided to call it the 'daz cut' for this particular situation...

I mean saw plenty artistically inferior product come out of DAZ over the years - which is exactly why I'm wondering where the other vendors may be going. If anything, calling it a DAZ cut was phrased with a dose of sarcasam towards DAZ and their transfering only the vendors whom meet their product guidelines (and leaving a lot of other quality content out).

Anyway, I'm getting a bit frustrated here with your trying to twist what I said into a different meaning. I explained what I meant once already. I can't defend what I said against your assigning it a meaning outside of waht I was talking about, no matter how many times we go over it.

Quote - > Quote - Prolly because Anton kinda burned his bridges with them? It's lucky the Apollo forum didn't just get closed over there.

They're not singling out Apollo, so let's try not to slant the the discussion into that direction.

Wasn't really intending to, just pointing that out.
 

Quote - Prolly because Anton kinda burned his bridges with them? It's lucky the Apollo forum didn't just get closed over there.

I think that would have more to do with customer support than with the like/dislike of the PTB against/for Anton per se...

As for how and why he left there? That's between him and them.

/P

Quote - Prolly because Anton kinda burned his bridges with them? It's lucky the Apollo forum didn't just get closed over there.

"You don't spit into the wind..."

lol. What rubbish. How's the view from bitterness mountain?

My relationship with ef is the same it has always been. I did leave by my own choice, which is my right, unless the movement to bring back surfdom has succeeded. When Apollo was released for free a year ago, ef was kind enough to donate the completed faceroom module and host the forum as a show of support.

The Apollo forum is a very big draw for the ef forums. They are primarily concerned with thier own figures and prefer people to support them first. This is similar to the Daz store which I don't beleive accepts Apollo, Miki, or Jessie unique products.

Stores have to look out for their own best interests, of course. There are many options around Poserdom. Most Poser stores support Apollo and sell Apollo products, either whole or in part.

:)

I have been fortunate to work with Daz and ef, developing figures and features for Poser. Many suggestions I made were added  to P7, as many of my designs became standard Daz franchise items that continue today. I have also been fortunate to work with different brokerages and have known so many merchants over the years I have lost track.

Each store I left at my own choosing.  Not that I am ungrateful to any of them, but usually there was a situation relating to how merchants were treated that I could not sit by and be apart of; the exception being ef. I parted with ef and CP solely for business reasons; nothing personal.

Poser has been good to me and between Poser and my other careers,  I really don't have any financial needs. Each store I was at saw very large sales from my efforts that generally exceeded anyone else. Some store handled news I was leaving better than others.

Many stores continue to ask if I might return and I have open invitations across Poserdom. Daz has asked my back twice since I left them arounf the time of M3. Both times I declined.

So , that said, I can assure you that contrary to the impression you and those like you,  try to make fact, I assure you I have no shortage of opportunities or offers. I am grateful for the many invitation I receive, but I am happily enjoying my life as it is. Commercial Poserdom is currently my past. I don't have any desire to return, though I enjoy staying in touch for fun.

I know this must seem very shocking and unbelieveable, but to some people, there are more important things than money and opportunity; like ethics, helping others in need, and enjoying what you do.

Follow your own ladder to success. Glad we could catch up. :)

Bitter about what? I've never released a male figure at all, and have no reason to be bitter at all, other then your ill treatment of me in the past, but that's water under the bridge.

Granted, it's your choice to leave them or not, but it's ALSO their choice to keep the forum remaining open.

Since they ARE gravatating away from figures not created by EF/SM, it wouldn't surprise me for them to remove any forums that might compete with their products, and I'm sure a free Apollo does compete with their G2 males.

OMG, big meanie kitty... LOL, too cute.

Quote -
Since they ARE gravatating away from figures not created by EF/SM, it wouldn't surprise me for them to remove any forums that might compete with their products, and I'm sure a free Apollo does compete with their G2 males.

Not to put a pinch on anything, but the CP makes a percentage of anything sold there, whether it supports their own in-house products or not... including AM byproducts.

Rule #1 of business - when it involves profit, always keep your options open :)

/P

Quote - Not to put a pinch on anything, but the CP makes a percentage of anything sold there, whether it supports their own in-house products or not... including AM byproducts.

AM, V3, V4... all the figures I asked about ans they told me they were not interested in at the moment. I thought it was odd. My first thought was, aren't you a business... profit vs. figure loyalty???

My gut feeling was that it must be due some sort of a major marketing plan/push/reorganization since the Smith Micro purchase.  Sort of a business as usual, when there's new bosses, they all get their shot at reorganizing things, to see if they can improve things.
 
(Like in our office at the moment - yuck yuck hiss spit grrrrr I hate it when that happens)

Ah - didn't know they pitched the AM stuff...

Sounds kinda stupid, IMHO.

I mean, real stupid. Yeah, Terai Yuki is the sh!t IMHO as far as meshes/figures go (though not as much as my current fave --A3+XinXin-- but still a damned sight better than almost all other meshes of that genre)...

But, I somehow don't see a sudden surge in supporting products for TY2 just because there's no A3 stuff around in the CP. Same goes with AM... James ain't gonna get more popular just because Smith Micro decides that AM officially doesn't exist.

Same with Miki, G2 male/female, any of 'em - the content determines the market's viability, not the other way around.

--

I can understand DAZ being shy about not supporting non-DAZ figures, because their core biz is still, well, selling DAZ figures and the goodies to go with 'em.

But the CP? It's not like the entire Poser-using public is suddenly going to forget that there's 3rd-party (read: Vicky) figures about. If anything, Smith Micro needs to get cozy with the likes of DAZ and RDNA (especially RDNA, who have been more faithful to default Poser stuff than anyone else outside of the CP itself).

Basically, Smith Micro needs to get back to being neutral (like Poser used to be back in the day), providing just enough to make a starter kit of sorts, then point to the 3rd-party market to let it determine what happens from there.

/P

Yeah, the only reasons I was coming to CP was Apollo forum and Poser service pack downloads! Limiting their product line isn't going to make me frequent it more.

Couple of vendors that I really like (like Chikako) when I buy their products I buy them here or at their own site.

Maybe they're trying to put some pressure on vendors to cater to their figires more.  I dunno. Sop far I'm not all that impressed with what's been going on since the Smith Micro purchase.
I remember some time ago people were jumping the gun and saying that poser content will get mixed up with screensavers and some other mySmithMicro offerings. I was hoping that wasn't going to be the case, but, looks like that's the direction things are going in. Combine Poser content with screensavers and spyware cleaner...
What's next, merge it with free smiley and clipart site?????
gag me mysmithmicro already hosts banner ads that say "get Poser 7 for free" (give us your email address and enter the drawing=piles and piles of junk mail)  gag me

I'm usually not one of the people that jump on doom and gloom predictions, but once I see stuff like that, I dunno.

uh oh, I forgot the link: http://www.freestaplesdirect.net/landing5/index.php?itemID=118782&KW=poser&B=1320691622&PI=&gclid=CKzozZOf95ECFSEaawodqxzcww

Quote -
Maybe they're trying to put some pressure on vendors to cater to their figires more.

That would make sense - if Renderosity, DAZ, and other stores never existed.

Quote - gag me mysmithmicro already hosts banner ads that say "get Poser 7 for free" (give us your email address and enter the drawing=piles and piles of junk mail)  gag me

Damn. A drawing. For Poser 7.

Didn't these idiots see any of the "get a free iPod" scams? One look at that link and I immediately thought that's what it was.

Urgh. I almost feel sorry for Poserdom at this point.

/P

*Urgh. I almost feel sorry for Poserdom at this point.

*Yup, I had that yucky queasy feeling that you get when your'e about to drop opff the roller coaster when I saw it :

Did I mention I wish Apollo forum, was here on Rendo!  ... I do, I do!