Well I finally bought the new Guitar poses and was excited to try them out. Using a personal morphed character, since this was the one I wanted to use it for I went and tried out a pose. Then what happens... The morphs all went to hell. Now I could see this if it is hmm once in awhile or an error. So I loaded a V4 character with the preset morphs for who they were blah blah blah. And it happens again.

I email the person of Guitar poseness

Pfft got a crappy email at that. Load the poses and then my morphs he says. Now why should I have to go through alllllllllllllllllllll that trouble just to get a pose? Seriously. So now I await his reply and hopefully he sends a fix. Though I've done the morph thing anyway but thats a hassle and I feel if your going to put up a product like that then there should be at least a fix if it happens. also many new people wouldn't know how to load their own morphs and would get frustrated after getting that result.

Your thoughts on this people of Rendo land?

A pose should not change any applied morphs on a figure. If it happens then the person who did the poses saved them with morphs included instead without  - means the pose includes all figure morphs set to 0 and that's why it changes your character. This is not the right way to save poses and this person should actually fix it.

This is something that should have caught by the beta testers and the market place testers.

A pose file should only contain translation and rotation channels. You can easily fix the pose yourself:

• load an unmorphed figure of the correct type, don't worry about textures and such;
• disable inverse kinematics;
• if needed, load the guitar prop (the documentation that goes with the bought pose should tell you whether this is needed or not);
• apply the guitar pose to the figure;
• save the pose to your pose library. If Poser asks whether to include morph channels (Poser 7, maybe Poser 6 too), don't include them.

Done. You can use the new guitar pose and it will not affect any morphs.

I usually pose then load my morph when that happens. Some of the freebies from other sites do that. Their free so why complain. But either way it shouldn't happen. And I will update this to let everyone know what is going on. Its really unfair. I'm more or less trying to look out for the new poser users rather then anyone else.

If he doesn't fix it then I will report the problem to the higher ups and see if they can correct this issue with the Guitar guy. -won't mention names but its a new product on the market-

I agree. A pose is a pose and shouldn't affect materials or morphs. A MAT pose is a MAT pose and should ONLY affect materials, and a MOR pose/INJ pose should ONLY affect morphs/scaling.

Quote - They're free so why complain

There is no reason why freestuff should be of lesser quality than commercial items. Of course, there's no testing and no quality assurance, but I strongly believe that freestuff can and should be made well. I always strive for quality in my freestuff items, not only "as is" out of the box, but also in support.

You got that right, Punt!

Ok I do have to agree and disagree with free stuff. I wouldn't complain especially if they are just starting out. For those people the best you can do is try to lead them in the right direction so they get better at it.

But on another note. No email yet and I don't think I will be seeing one. If I do not have it by tomorrow I will list the Vendor's name here so everyone knows about it.

I'm not a bad person but the problem should not even exist and should not force us to have to go by other means to keep our morphs while placing our models in poses. This is unfair to us. We paid for the product.

rawr!!

yeah sounds like that product should have been failed during testing before it hit the store but rosity's testers dropped the ball on it  and the creator is so arrogant that he thinks that  he shouldn't have to do it the correct way just because he says to apply the pose and then the character.

That aint how it works though sounds like someone needs to learn customer service.

Quote - yeah sounds like that product should have been failed during testing before it hit the store but rosity's testers dropped the ball on it 

Actually, it's my understanding that the testers for Renderosity only check packaging and the readme file.  They don't actually test the product itself.  Which IMHO is not the way it should be. I test for a different store and anything that goes into the store gets beta tested from the ground up, regardless if the merchant had their own testers.

in my opinion thats pretty retarded. all products should be tested completely by the store selling it . I was a tester myself and i always tested  everything  even to the point of going past my allotted testing time if needed.

I can't address the specific product in question here, but I can say that all products which are released to the Marketplace are most definitely slated to be tested "from the ground up".  Allow me to repeat: I can't deal with this specific product, but I can refer you over to customer support --

If there's a problem with a given product, then I'd recommend posting a query about it in the Marketplace Customer Support Forum.  It's set up specifically for dealing with any issues that customers might have, and you can get a response there:

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showforum.php?forum_id=12374

I hope that this helps!  It's late here, so I am about to go offline for the night.  But please let the customer support folks know about any questions / problems that you might have, and they'll be happy to assist you.  They're nice folks. 

Quote - I can't address the specific product in question here, but I can say that all products which are released to the Marketplace are most definitely slated to be tested "from the ground up". 

If that is the case it must be something new because I distinctly  remember seeing Karen state more than once that all they test for is packaging.

No, it isn't new -- they've been doing it for many years before I came on board.  Perhaps there was a misunderstanding involved in your other conversations........but yes: we do test.

(whew) 

No misunderstanding :) I have a memory like an elephant.  I tried searching but I can't pull anything up. Chances are it was stated in locked threads which do not pull up in general searches.

But I distinctly remember thinking to myself  "What's the point of having  beta testers if all they are going to test for is packaging.", and I remember that steveral others voiced their views  about that too.

But now that is neither here nor there since I can't pull up valid proof of it being said, and you now say that testing is done from the ground up.

Quote - > Quote - I can't address the specific product in question here, but I can say that all products which are released to the Marketplace are most definitely slated to be tested "from the ground up". 

If that is the case it must be something new because I distinctly  remember seeing Karen state more than once that all they test for is packaging.

Unless if you're referring strictly to the freestuff section -- that's a different standard.  I'm not involved in that end of it, so you'd need to ask Karen or one of the other freestuff folks about that aspect.

All commercial products are scheduled for testing prior to release.

Nope. not free stuff. 

Well, I wasn't privy to any of the conversations that you're referring to, so I'd say that you'd probably need to inquire directly with the people that you spoke to about it to clarify.

But I can tell you that several hours of my time each night is spent in "testing from the ground up", after my office day job is done.  :-)

I'm going to have to sign out -- before I literally nod off and my forehead hits the keyboard (it's approx. 3:45AM).  :ohmy:

In any case, please post an inquiry in the Customer Support Forum.  They'll be more than glad to assist you.

Goodnight, all.

Begmysweet,
First,please send a email to the admins at admin@renderosity.com, or store staff at store@renderosity.com, with any concerns/issues you may have regarding a product.

Second, I can tell you that the guitar poses pack was tested extensively, so I am not sure why you are having problems with it..nevertheless, please send us an email so we can work with you on the problem.

And finally, Acadia, I am not sure where you got your information from, about testers only testing packaging, and readme files, but that information is incorrect. And I highly, highly doubt it was Karen who said so.

Store testers test products in every aspect, down to fine detail.. not just packaging.

What you may be referring to, is the freestuff area testing, where we do not test as intensely as the MP products. In freestuff, we test for packaging, download ability, viruses, and make sure that the files extract, and also check where the download is hosted, in case the site crosses our TOS regarding adult content. etc..

I hope this helps clear some things up.

Thanks!

~Jani
Renderosity Community Admin

Acadia, your memory is incorrect, and I believe you are thinking of a conversation we had in the staff forum regarding freestuff items.

If we only tested that a product unzipped and had a correct readme... well, I wouldn't have spent around 4-6 hours per day, every day for the last three years, testing products here. I could have had my quota finished in between eating me dinner and watching Emmerdale. And the store would be full of products that didn't work, because sadly, around 40% of product submissions fail the first time of testing.

Begmysweet, the vendor has been in touch about the product you mentioned and we're in the process of getting an update for it. You'll receive an email when the update is ready for download.

With the best will in the world, folks, our testers cannot test for every single "What if" scenario that comes along. A product should have been thoroughly beta-tested before it arrives on our servers (although often it clearly has not been.) Our testers pick up the vast majority of flaws in uploaded products, but occasionally there are situations like this one where a flaw becomes apparent after release. In these cases, we aim to deal with the situation as quickly as possible to get the fixed zips to the customer.

Thanks,

Karen

Quote - With the best will in the world, folks, our testers cannot test for every single "What if" scenario that comes along.

LOL but surely with a pose pack one of the standard / basic things you should test for is that it doesn't contain morph data.

I recently bought a pose & expression pack from here as well, while the was no problems with the poses, all of the expressions reset back to the default V4 face, very irritating. I contacted the vendor, who basically implied it wasn't a problem, & I could edit the files myself or just deal with it. This is from one of your top sellers - not one I will be purchasing from again!

Actually it's not something we specifically test for, but I'll strongly consider adding it to our (ever-growing, LOL) list.

It really does seem bad that this wasn't picked up by the creator & the testers. I would have thought in a pose package this would be one of the first things to look for. I don't want to pick bones with anyone but it's a strange oversight.

Anyhow, hi Karen, how's things?
I bet you're glad to be away from the riff raff that come here in the Poser forum, LOL!

This happens all the !@? time!

Vendors, if you're charging money for Pose sets, make 100% certain they're 100% morph neutral.

It's not like it's hard to do.

Anything else is just sloppy, amateurish and lazy.

Quote - Acadia, your memory is incorrect, and I believe you are thinking of a conversation we had in the staff forum regarding freestuff items.

Nope.  I do know about the Free Stuff (which was also talked about in the Poser forum) but that is not what I am remembering.  What I read  was in the Poser forum, and I remember several others who voiced their thoughts about it too.  It came up in a thread about something else.

However, like I said earlier, it's neither here not there anymore because I can't find the posts to back up what I'm saying, but I know what I remember reading.

Acadia --  we used to have an initial step in the product testing process which was called "pre-testing", where we'd only check for things like readme problems and folder structures, etc..  But "pre-testing" was strictly a preliminary step -- and it was always followed by a full-on test.  We've changed the testing procedures since then, but that was the old methodology.

Perhaps that's what you're remembering.

With the backlog of testing results from many years past that I've seen, we never as a matter of policy merely checked readme's and such without testing the product's functionality.

It's not important :) LIke I said, I can't back up what I'm saying because I can't find the threads where it was said. So the point is moot.

What is important is that you say that testing is done from the ground up... and if that's really what is happening (now), then that's all that matters.

That's what was happening.......always. 

Just to inject a note of rationality, Linda - do you honestly think that Renderosity would pay five testers to get every product that gets sent to pending tested, if we could just unzip each one and check the readme? That would take, what, 5 minutes per product? Debbie could do it all herself, and save the wages bill.

Stormy, I'm doing good thanks mate, although life is certainly less interesting without you guys to keep me on my toes :m_laugh:

thanks for the headsup. I had that pose pack in my cart. Love esther

Wow this turned out to get pretty big. Yeah well its not the first time. I bought an expression pack here once before. Never did work and I figured screw it I'll just do it myself. after an hour of doing 20 expressions and saving them and all that mess (took an hour cause I was so bored doing it) I had a whole new folder...what did I do with the original product? Tossed it.

I will not say the vendor but I will say...Those guitar poses were not...and I repeat were not tested enough. The morphs changed. My morphs that I had worked hard on through both poser and zbrush. I used both. Hell I even said screw it and threw one that shouldn't even use the poses at all and it changed my locked morphs. Was funny there was a hand through the head and all. Anyway the morph option on the pose package was not tested. I don't think when most testers test they use their own morphed personal character to do the job. I think what they do is just open v4 and go through it all.

Now I got an email reply. Downloaded an update or so he calls it. I will test it out and see what happens. If it works then I'll let you all know. If it don't I will let you all know. Done deal.

If I have to do this crap myself and redo his work to make it work then I'm not buying another product from that vendor.

I hope that they're fixed for you, that's something that shouldn't have happened.  Easy test for the merchant to do himself.  That should have been tested prior to hitting the testers here.

Oh he said he tested it. Which I highly doubt really. But we will see when I sit down long enough to test this update myself. If it doesn't go through...Well I'll let you all know. Hell I'll even throw some pics up to show.

Quote - Oh he said he tested it. Which I highly doubt really. But we will see when I sit down long enough to test this update myself. If it doesn't go through...Well I'll let you all know. Hell I'll even throw some pics up to show.

Ya know, it's one thing to be annoyed when something doesn't work as it should but it's something else entirely to jump to conclusions as in your post above.  How about just testing the thing and leave the sniping comments out of it?

Ok Begmysweet,

While we understand you are upset over this product, you have received an update, and have been in touch with the vendor to work a solution. I am sure the vendor will work with you further until, you are satisfied with the product.

That being said, this thread is beginning to edge closer and closer to public trashing of a vendor. Again, if you have complaints or concerns, take it to email, and keep it out of the open forums.

Kinda agree with that one.  It's fine and dandy to say that a product doesn't work correctly and express disappointment but another thing entirely to just blatantly bash the vender. 

On a different note.  Im kinda shocked to hear about the marketplace not testing for morphs in the poses too.  And hands through heads?  I've gotten a few sets from big venders here too and wound up irritated about the way they were done, and hands sticking through body parts, fingers twisted and deformed.  If the testers aren't testing for morph values or funky body part twists, what exactly are they testing pose packages for "from the ground up"?

Well, it's like Karen said, sometimes things crop up that we were not aware of, and don't become aware of, until it's been released, and a customer puts the pack thru different paces so to speak, and discovers a flaw.

Now that we know of it however, we will def be adding that to our list of testing procedures ;)

The tests for some of these irritations should be automatable because compliance can be determined without using the file in Poser.

For instance, finding absolute paths in files is trivial as any (non-image) file containing a backslash needs to be examined and corrected.
For this particular task, standard command line utilities will do what's necessary (even those that Windows would be sufficient).

Other things require more the script to have some level of understanding of the Poser file structure, but would still be worth the effort as the human testers can then concentrate on the remaining aspects that need to be checked.

Quote - The tests for some of these irritations should be automatable

Now some of THAT,  I would give up chocolate for...wait.....nope, I lied, I ain't giving up chocolate for nuttin ' :laugh:

But seriously, its a good thought...whether or not we could get it, I don't know..but I do like the idea of some of it being automated..granted it can't all be of course, but some would be nice.

Well the update that he has sent me fixed the problem....As for everyone that seems to now get on my case for being upset over it...Ah well. Thats all I have to say. Though the update to the expressions seem to not work but the poses do. I have enough expressions so I really don't care too much about that.

Anyway. now that he fixed it with an updated file he sent to me all is well and I didn't have to sit there redoing the work.

"Anyway. now that he fixed it with an updated file he sent to me all is well and I didn't have to sit there redoing the work."

That's awsome!  I hope he sent some roses too for all of your suffering.

At least part of it is fixed.  If the fix didn't address the expressions email the MP people and see if they can't get this straightened out for you.  Your purchased product should be working 100%, not 90% :)

RR PAYS testers with REAL money???? Not in products? WOW! I worked as a tester for another store and we had to test everything - I learned a lot - but it was for the product only and I just did not have the time. Easier to just buy it. How much do RR testers get paid, if I might ask?

Quote - > Quote - The tests for some of these irritations should be automatable

Now some of THAT,  I would give up chocolate for...wait.....nope, I lied, I ain't giving up chocolate for nuttin ' :laugh:

But seriously, its a good thought...whether or not we could get it, I don't know..but I do like the idea of some of it being automated..granted it can't all be of course, but some would be nice.

CorrectReference Pro by hogsoft will catch a lot of these errors.
As for finding out what is affected by a pose, it's not that difficult to write a utility that'll report on what a pose file affects.

Hmm, an idea here. I might write a little utility that can batch analyze a folder with Pose files, reporting on morphs, poses and material settings. How about that?

Quote - Hmm, an idea here. I might write a little utility that can batch analyze a folder with Pose files, reporting on morphs, poses and material settings. How about that?

svdl - You think of everything, your scripts are so useful!
Could you write me one up for the lottery numbers?

:woot: Really? :woot:

Thanky!!!

Screenshot of the first version. Not ready yet (I'll add a toolbar too, and the detail info on pose files should be added).

Jumpstartme2: something like this?

Oh my goodness, that would be wonderful, and extremely useful!

I shall dance at your next wedding :biggrin:

Started implementing drag-and-drop: just drag a folder with .pz2 files on the listbox and it'll be filled...

By the way, I'm writing this in C# 2005, which means it won't run on a Mac. Is that a problem?

@Jumpstartme2: what detail info should be displayed in the right pane of the application?

Or would you rather have the applciation as it is now, without any info on the right side, just the ability to save/print the list as displayed?

Svdl, you are da bomb! :thumbupboth:

I don''t think it will be a problem being C#...I'm pretty sure all the testers have PC's.

Thank you sooo much!