Attached Link: http://bradsdeals.com/dell-coupons-mid-4.html

I've been pricing computers for the last few months and just found a deal that I couldn't beat for a low end quad core computer. I wanted a quad core because Poser 7 rendering makes use of the chip's capability to nearly cut the time to render by a quarter compared to a standard single core chip. I was stuck going with Dell because few computer companies build with XP any more and I've read of enough problems with people using Vista. I hate using an OS that is being phased out, but Vista simply isn't as backwards compatible as it ought to be. A news program tipped me onto bradsdeals.com for coupons and there is a $200 Dell coupon for systems $750 or higher (or a $300 off coupon for $1000 or higher)--both expiring on Apr 17. While I had originally spec'd out a computer for a under $700, the coupon made it worthwhile to add a GEForce 8300 and an extra Gb of RAM for a total of $759 which the coupon drops to $559.

This isn't a screaming computer or anything, but it's pretty good for the price and will be a nice improvement over my old 550 MHz Win98 machine. Below are the specs:
Intel Core 2 Quad Processor Q6600 (8MB L2 cache,2.4GHz,1066FSB)
Genuine Windows® XP Professional
2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz- 2DIMMs
250GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™
16x DVD+/-RW Drive
nVidia GeForce 8300GS 128MB

The computer supports two internal hard drives. I'll be transferring over the 100 Gb drive I've got in the old computer and eventually buy a larger internal drive. Dell wanted $50 to upgrade the 250 Gb to 320 Gb or $100 to upgrade to 500 Gb. I could buy a 500 Gb drive for $86 and still have the 250 Gb drive in the computer. It's not worth upgrading through Dell.

I'll eventually pick up an extra Gb of RAM since the case has 4 DIMM slots (though dual channel might mean I have to fill both empty slots with the same RAM). I haven't had time to play the latest greatest games, so won't have any immediate need to upgrade the graphics card, but could see myself adding a card for a second monitor or swapping the GEForce out for a card that handles two monitors.

Try to get Dell to put XP 64 bit on that system. Poser 7 will love it.
A 4 GB kit (2x2GB) DDR2-667 or DDR2-800 isn't that expensive anymore, should be under $100. When running a 64 bit OS, you can really put that extra memory to work.
Just make sure that Dell doesn't put in 4x512MB, but 2x1GB - those are different confiuration options!

That's a pretty good deal, yeah, although I'd bet that the 2GB of memory they give you completely fills the memory slots of the motherboard, meaning you would have to throw parts away to upgrade - either spring for 4GB or more up front, or get it with as little memory as possible (reduce the cost of parts you'd have to throw away later).

There wasn't an option to upgrade to 64 bit processing. It doesn't hurt asking, but I suspect that the price would be prohibitive with buying something this inexpensive.

The RAM will be 2x1Gb, so that should leave two DIMM slots for more RAM. I've learned to pay attention to how the RAM is divided up versus the available slots for RAM.

Don't know if you are already aware of this or not, but Dell has a cut-rate website of its own where they sell refurbished; scratch 'n dent; previously ordered (customer refusals); and off-lease type equipment at much lower prices than these same items would come "off of the showroom floor".  It's my understanding that these PC's & peripherals are sold with the same warranty as Dell's brand-new items:

www.delloutlet.com

It's well worth a look.

I don't like Dell computers that much because they overheat.

Quote - Dell computer

runs screaming from the room holding up a cross

I've had 2 Dell computers.

The first one was a laptop. I bought it in October 2002, I only used it about 15 times between the date of purchase and mid 2004.  Mid 2004 I got Poser and my laptop being a newer and better machine, I started to use it as my primary computer instead of my desktop. So it was only used on a regular basis for less than 18 months before the motherboard went on it.  The warranty had expired by less than 5 months!

The second one you can read about in this thread:

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2684977

I'd go without a computer before I'd ever do business with Dell again!

I'm sure some overheat, but we put a larger power supply in my wife's dell with one of the best cooling fans I've ever seen. the thing is huge, and kicks air out like mad. her system runs so cool, even when playing intense games it parly increases by more then 5 degrees.

Every manufacturer sucks, and every manufacturer puts out great machines.. varying from model to model.

I WOULD be careful though and check memery slots available.. many budget machines only have 2 slots,and that limits how much ram they can hold.

The last time I checked a reliability issue at PC World, every PC maker's quality had dropped. I haven't had horrible experiences with Dell products, but haven't had great experiences with them. I still have a working 7 year-old laptop where a number of keys don't work anymore (the diagonal bank of 8, I, K, and comma) and the DVD drive isn't greatly reliable, but it got a lot of use. I also have a newer laptop where the DVD burner was burning eratically and their tech support never completely corrected the problem, but they sent a replacement drive that also didn't work right. Their tech support oddly separated hardware from software problems and they would not provide software support within the warranty. Installing Roxio DVD Creator fixed whatever was messed up in the registry. The battery, on the 3 year-old system is down to about an hour remote usage, but that is probably the norm for something that old. Dell are the only authorized computers at work and one of the four I used had a power supply go bad. I haven't had a perdect record with Dell, but nothing too traumatic.

I just looked at Dell's refurbished site and there aren't any quad core systems in there today for desktops.

I was going to buy a Gateway computer, but they've recently dropped out of the make-to-order mode. That meant spending a grand to get a quad system because of how they've set up available systems. I've learned over the years to buy the least expensive machine with all the features I want. Technology changes so fast that the fastest, most expensive computer bought today will be middle-of-the road next year, bottom line in about two years, and slipping towards obsolete in later years. Features last longer. I had a computer CD burner years before they were fashionable and the same for DVDs. A quad core chip will provide significant render times savings over much faster dual core systems years from now.

Quote -
I WOULD be careful though and check memery slots available.. many budget machines only have 2 slots,and that limits how much ram they can hold.

The specs say 4 DIMM slots and I've been assuming that each DIMM uses up only one slot. The 2Gb I'm getting should leave two free DIMMs.
Below are the generic specs.
 Externally Accessible

Video: 1 DVI, VGA and 1 S-Video (with add-in PCI-Express video card)

IEEE 1394 (optional): 1 6-pin serial connector

USB: 10 ports (4 Front, 4 back) + 2 internal

Audio: Six back-panel connectors for line-in, line-out, microphone, rear surround, side surround, two front-panel connectors for headphones/microphone, integrated 7.1 channel sound

Network: Integrated 10/100 network interface

Expansion Slots

PCI: 2 Slots

PCIe x1: 1 Slot

PCIe x16 (Graphics): 1 Slots

Chassis

300 Watt DC Power Supply
3.5" Bays: 3 bays (one external; two internal)

5.25" Bays: 2 bays

Memory DIMM slots: 4 available

Check to make SURE they aren;t populating all 4 slots with 512meg dimms.. those are much cheaper then 1gig or 2 gig dimms, and I'll be they are using all 4 slots. Also see if you can find out how much ram each slot can address. Some can only address 1 gig, and that will limit you to 4 gig max.

I'll stick with HP computers...

They'll populate the DIMM slots with 1 Gb DIMMs. If I upgrade to 3 Gb, all 4 slots will be filled since it's dual channel RAM. I noticed that there's an option to get 800MHz RAM instead of the 667 MHz they provide as a default. It's probably worth spending the $20 to get the faster RAM.

Since I'm going with 32 bit XP Pro, I'm not sure that there's much value expanding beyond 2 Gb due to the internal limitations of that OS. 

As I put my configuration into the shopping cart, I found out that there's free shipping for systems over $600. Shipping will cost me $30, so it's probably worth spending $50 more in an upgrade since it will only be $20 more out of pocket.

Quote - I'll stick with HP computers...

 
As Garee said, every PC maker has their share of good and bad stories and none of them seem to be particularly great anymore. I still remember the old days when Compaq was considered second to only IBM. Today, they're considered amongst the shoddiest brands on the market.

I've heard too many bad stories about HP's quality and their poor customer and technical support to buy from them. While most PC makers, including Dell, were only ranked by PC World as good for out of the box quality and support, HP only ranked fair. I also don't like that HP doesn't provide a real Windows disk, but only a restore disk. HP doesn't provide disks for the software that comes with the computer. If you don't make backup disks, HP will not provide that software if there is a hard drive crash out of warranty, forcing HP users to buy an overpriced drive through them instead of picking up a good cheap one on sale.

At least you've had a good experience with HP, but I know a lot more people that haven't.

FWIW, I'm running a HP here, and my wife's system is a dell. Both were enhanced with more ram, better power supplies and cooling, and better video cards.

Both also were updated with vista 64 pro  a few months ago.

My last two computers have been Dell and I have had no major screw ups. I DID learn NOT to call their support line with a question because India Accented English is dang near a foreign language to my Kentucky ears.

 

It took an hour and a half on the phone with Dell's customer support to get the configuration I wanted with the deals I wanted. It was more confusing than a DAZ sale and that's saying a lot.

I had a $800 purchase set up and went to the shopping cart and applied the available coupon and got the $200 off. The shopping cart showed that the free shipping offer was being applied, but the total didn't. I went to Dell's online chat and they couldn't fix the problem and said that a sales rep would call. None did, so I had to call them.

Before calling, I remembered that, since my office has all Dell computers, I'm eligible for an employee discount. I went to that side of the site and configured everything as I did before. This time, the free shipping was properly applied. The $200 coupon did not apply. I make the phone call and find out that the employee discount invalidates other sale offers. I told the sales rep that it's a pretty lousy discount when a person off the street can get a couple hundred dollars off better deal. That's when the rep decided to try to build me a better deal. She built a configuration that she said matches my needs. Luckily, I asked her to send me the configuration before saying, "Yes." It turned out that she missed two of the items I had upgraded. She put those in and I noticed that she didn't put in the 800 MHz RAM instead of the default 667 MHz DIMMs. She couldn't match the price I had and had to put me on hold while she talked to a supervisor. The one nice thing is that she was feeling competitive and didn't want to give up and let me get a better price through the standard system.

While the sales rep was busy, I rebuilt the non-employee discount system again and saved it in the shopping cart. She didn't believe that I could get the price I was getting there and thought that I was getting a different discount than the one the coupon was providing. The discussion was hitting a point where she didn't believe what I was telling her and this helped provide the proof that she was lacking. I also saved a copy of the original configuration I wanted and the one she built me and used a document comparison in Word to see what the differences were. The configurations Dell sends in a quote are a laundry list of what looked like 50 items and that's not easy to eyeball one-to-one to see where the differences are. I didn't want to provide my credit card number without being sure that I was getting what I wanted.

The sales rep got back online and configured everything correctly and provided a comparable price (a few dollars more) to the original estimate I had and gave me a slightly bigger hard drive (320 Gb vs. 250) and a more expensive surge protector than in the original order. If I ever have to go through that again, I'll buy from another company. I got a slightly better deal with the employee program, but it probably wasn't worth the time and trouble to get it. I wasted too much time trying to get the best deal. I even tried reconfiguring a different model, that had $100 off up front and that one would not take the $200 off coupon, so would have been $100 more. It was just like trying to figure out all the premutations of a DAZ sale where some sales deals work together and others cancel each other out so that a sale could be more expensive than without a sale. Luckily, I rarely ever need tech support. If sales are this convoluted, I'd hate to think about how bad their support is.

The computer is supposed to be delivered the end of the month. Hopefully, all will be well. If not, Acadia can do the "I told you so!" happy dance.

While that might seem like a lot of work, try buying all those items online separately, and then spending two days trying to figure out why it won't boot up. Then spend a week waiting for a replacement on one part, find out it's not what the issue was, and then wait another week for the replacement for the proper defective part.

Then try to wrangle all the rebates you are supposed to get, and follow up on them for 5 months before you get them all sorted!

Believe me, after that hell, a few hours on the phone with a rep is pure heaven.

Quote - I just looked at Dell's refurbished site and there aren't any quad core systems in there today for desktops.

I should mention that it's best to call the "Dell Outlet", and not to just go by what they have listed as being available on their website.  They are getting new refurbished / refused units all of the time, and whatever they have on the shelf doesn't always show up on the website.

The discount outlet is actually quite popular with small companies and such.

Heh -- and I say all of this, being an HP user (for the most part).    I was only recently introduced to the "Dell Outlet" myself.

Quote - While that might seem like a lot of work, try buying all those items online separately, and then spending two days trying to figure out why it won't boot up. Then spend a week waiting for a replacement on one part, find out it's not what the issue was, and then wait another week for the replacement for the proper defective part.

Then try to wrangle all the rebates you are supposed to get, and follow up on them for 5 months before you get them all sorted!

Believe me, after that hell, a few hours on the phone with a rep is pure heaven.

Yes -- and that's the issue about spending more money to buy......dare I say it?.......retail at a local store vs. online from a company 10 states away from yours.  When you buy from a local store, there's generally no waiting to exchange a defective unit for a new one.  You take the broken one back to the store & they hand you a new one to take its place -- no muss, no fuss (usually).

Buy something online; save $$$$$; take delivery of the unit; find out that something is wrong with it; break it back down; pack it back up; ship it back out; and then wait 2 months+ to get it back again.

Frankly, that extra $200 to buy the same thing at local retail outlet can have its upside.

it would IF I had a local store.. closest REAL hardware story would be best buy, 45 minutes away highway. With gas prices now, that's about $8-$10 each trip. And it's not like best buy is well known for it's great selection or parts.

We stopped by for a 450 watt power supply for my wife last year.. closest they had in stock was a 650, for $299!

And we got her a 450 watt supply with a warranty 3 times longer for $40 shipped from newegg.

Had I bought things locally, I peobably would have easily doubled the cost of her system or more.

(Her ati x1950 pro card at best buy was $350... at newegg it was $1405 shipped!)

I remember jokin gwith her when e left best buy, that with thier prices, we could buy her two online, in case she needed a backup.. LOL!

We use Dell in work. My last one burnt out after 18 months. My current one has lasted almost 3 years though. One thing about Dell machines is that they never seem to operate as well as their spec would suggest. I always build my own. Its not the money saver that it used to be, but I can have exactly the machine I want. Its a  good  learning experience too.

Quote - it would IF I had a local store.. closest REAL hardware story would be best buy, 45 minutes away highway. With gas prices now, that's about $8-$10 each trip. And it's not like best buy is well known for it's great selection or parts.

We stopped by for a 450 watt power supply for my wife last year.. closest they had in stock was a 650, for $299!

And we got her a 450 watt supply with a warranty 3 times longer for $40 shipped from newegg.

Had I bought things locally, I peobably would have easily doubled the cost of her system or more.

(Her ati x1950 pro card at best buy was $350... at newegg it was $1405 shipped!)

I remember jokin gwith her when e left best buy, that with thier prices, we could buy her two online, in case she needed a backup.. LOL!

I've known several people personally who dealt with a lot more than $500 worth of frustration in vain attempts to get a unit that they had to ship out for repair back quickly.  Especially when the "repaired" unit came back with its case cracked & other problems.

Repair delays can really be a problem, not to mention a financial burden, if someone depends upon their PC for their livelihood.  Having to wait eight weeks to get a PC back might end up costing a lot more than double the price of the unit.  Particularly if clients are lost, etc. as a result of PC troubles.

So you pays your money and you makes your choice.  I'm not saying that I wouldn't buy something online -- by no means.  But I do say that it should be done with a full understanding of the potential risks involved.

It helps if you have more than one PC, and can afford to have your new one offline for several weeks while its 'in the shop'.

In the fairly long time that I've been using computers, I've had only two "brand" desktop computers - my very first one, a Philips 8088/8 Mhz PC-XT, and later a preassembled clone from the supermarket.
That Philips machine wasn't bad. I put in a hard disk myself, a whole whopping 20 MB! Used it for several years before upgrading to a 286.
The preassembled clone from the supermarket wasn't bad either. One of the things I liked about is was that the components were listed in the brochure. So I knew what brand and model mainboard I'd be getting, what brand and model harddisk, graphics card, the whole kaboodle. Looked up all the stuff on the Internet (Anandtech, Tom's Hardware Guide) and found out they were all good quality components. I could have built the machine myself, at about the same price that the supermarket was charging.

I built all other machine myself. When I'm going to build a new machine, I check components, reviews and prices, and puzzle out what components I want to have. For some components, brand and model don't really matter (Optiarc DVD burners are OK, so are NEC DVD burners, Same price too, so I just don't care). For other components it is very important (mainboards!).
Once I have the shopping list complete, I drive to the computer store (100 km  drive) and buy the whole bunch at once.
I've always been able to build standard PCs out of good quality components that are faster than their counterpart brand (HP, Dell) macihines, at two thirds of the price - including the gas price for driving 200 km!

One of the things I don't like about brand computers is the power supply. Usually underdimensioned. That Dell Quad core is going to be delivered with a 300W PSU. barely enough to power the CPU, the harddisk, the DVD station and the current graphics card. If you want to upgrade the graphics card, you will also have to upgrade the PSU.
Extra RAM will probably work fine, but a second hard drive may already consume too much power for the 300W PSU.

Quote - One of the things I don't like about brand computers is the power supply. Usually underdimensioned. That Dell Quad core is going to be delivered with a 300W PSU. barely enough to power the CPU, the harddisk, the DVD station and the current graphics card. If you want to upgrade the graphics card, you will also have to upgrade the PSU.

Is there a site that shows the watts used per component so that I can add what I've got and decide if I want to upgrade the power supply?

I built the old computer I'm replacing. Since I'm going for as low a priced computer as I can for the performance I want, I'm not all that sure I can build one for the pre-tax $600 I'm paying for this computer. At the top of my head, a quad chip is $200, XP Pro $200, 320 Gb drive $80, 2 Gb RAM $60, motherboard $50. That's almost $600 there and I still need a case, power supply, DVD writer, and a few more items before I've got a comparable system. Components cost consumers more than they do computer makers. The components are packaged individually in commercial boxes for display. Individual warranties have to be made to consumers versus a computer seller assuming all those warranties. The operating system alone would cost me a third of what I paid for the computer and that's one of the areas where Microsoft is screwing consumers because it makes it difficult to build a computer for the same price. It's very hard to match the cost of a prebuilt computer when the OS costs are thrown in (Linux would be a nice free option, but has it's own problems with available Linux software). The cost savings comes in trading personal time for the cost of the computer company to make the machine. One of the big advantages of building a machine from scratch is making all the choices for components. Anybody building a high end machine can build a better one than any manufacturer will.

I didn't buy retail because I didn't want Vista and there aren't any store machines without Vista anymore (if there is, the computer is over a year old and no longer particularly current). Neither Dell or MS will replace Vista if it's not wholly compatible with the software I'm using. Dell sort of will if I ship the whole computer back, and I'd have to eat the shipping, and order a new computer. That seemed too much bother and I figure XP will be supported for at least a few more years even though it will no longer be sold in a few months. At least the new inexpensive minicomputers, like the ASUS EEE, will keep XP alive for longer than MS wanted. Although it would cost me a couple hundred dollars to buy a copy of XP, MS is almost giving it away to Linux ASUS EEE users for $25. Microsoft knows how to keep prices low when they have to compete. They aren't as considerate with their pricing when they have no competition. I also didn't buy retail because retail quad computers are usually priced near a grand. At that price, the other components are a little beefier than what I bought. I'd rather upgrade components in the future than pay the premium when building a computer.

Well almost all of the current crop of video cards need a 450 watt power supply or better. I have an ati x1950 prow that's 1.5  years old, and even it needs a 450 or better.

If you end up wanting to add a sli card down the road, yo umight as well double that power supply requirement.

Check newegg and tiger direct for the best power supply prices, but be forewarned that buying the cheapest one you find isn't the best idea... read the reviews, and keep in mind that your system's main cooling comes from it's power supply fan.

Quote - Is there a site that shows the watts used per component so that I can add what I've got and decide if I want to upgrade the power supply?

A bit of googling will turn up a few, but those sites can be pretty misleading. They base their calculations purely on the wattage of each device, which is fine in theory but falls apart in practice

See, the only real 'power' you have to worry about is the +12V line in your PSU. This line drives all the juice chugging devices in your system, including the CPU, the HDDs, Burners and of course any GPUs you have. If this line doesn't have enough Amps in it to provide for your system, then it doesn't matter how much wattage your PSU is, it wont be able to drive all your components. And unfortunately this is exactly where a lot of cheap PSU makers skimp on. Even worse, PSUs tend to lose wattage over time, so a 'just there' PSU can degrade to 'useless' with time.

Ideally for a quad core and any of the newer GPUs you want a PSU that has at least 35A-40A. 30A is pushing it but can work if you never plan to overclock. Any less is not a good idea. All good PSUs have their Amps clearly listed on a label on the side / in the info on their website. That's the first place to check if you need to upgrade or not.

One area to cut the expense without cutting corners (if you are considering building) is to ask for an OEM version of  XP from your component supplier. This is a lot less than the consumer version, and you are entitled to it if you are buying the components and building yourself. There is no difference (other than the price) between it and the normal version.