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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2025 Jan 11 12:18 am)



Subject: Why why why??


ir ( ) posted Thu, 17 April 2008 at 9:21 AM · edited Sat, 11 January 2025 at 3:10 AM

Why do some folks add another folder before Runtime when zipping up their freebies? Do they not realize they're making people have to move things manually? What possible purpose does it serve?


PhilC ( ) posted Thu, 17 April 2008 at 9:47 AM

This tutorial will go through the steps that are needed to compile an archive of Poser files
http://www.philc.net/WinZip_tutorial2.htm

Other tutorials exist, if anyone knows the links maybe they could add them to this thread?


ockham ( ) posted Thu, 17 April 2008 at 9:48 AM

It's a good question.  I always "buffer" an install manually anyway, to
avoid loading down Poser with hard-to-find orphan objects when I don't
need the whole package.  But the extra layer is certainly annoying.

My python page
My ShareCG freebies


Plutom ( ) posted Thu, 17 April 2008 at 9:49 AM

IR, I think its just a mistake on their part (they don't know how to make a proper path).  The easiest way to learn IMHO is to unzip a properly pathed package to a separate folder (label the folder so that one can find it easily, extract to that folder, and click on the folder to see the proper method).  Jan


dphoadley ( ) posted Thu, 17 April 2008 at 9:54 AM

What's wrong with manually placing files?  I do it all the time!
DPH

  STOP PALESTINIAN CHILD ABUSE!!!! ISLAMIC HATRED OF JEWS


ir ( ) posted Thu, 17 April 2008 at 10:03 AM

If you WANT to manually move files buried in a folder structure, that's fine, but forcing people to do so is bad practice.

I think for some it's a mistake, but didn't they test their own zip? Some of these are from established artists, such as Pretty3d.

On one of the Freestuff items, I sent a site mail to the uploader, I was polite, and their response was to pull all their freestuff out of spite. They said as much.

So I really don't understand. Rosity takes time to add freebies to the listing, so I don't understand what they're doing when they check them. Proper paths should be one of them.


bagginsbill ( ) posted Thu, 17 April 2008 at 10:29 AM

You must be talking about issues with the MAC. As I understand it, the MAC approach to drag-and-drop of a folder is the issue, because it removes all the existing content of the target folder.

On a PC, when you drag a zipped Runtime onto your Poser application folder, it automatically MERGES all the content from the source to the existing content of the destination. So, for me on a PC, I simply drag "Runtime" into Poser X and I'm done.  All the files go into the right places.

Thinking about this further, in what way would some other arrangement help on the MAC?

Consider a texture package. I want to make a few new shadesr for you and there are a couple texture files that go with them. So I want to give you:

Runtime:Libraries:Materials:Baggins:CoolNewShader1.mt5
Runtime:Libraries:Materials:Baggins:CoolNewShader2.mt5
Runtime:Textures:Baggins:CoolTexture1.jpg
Runtime:Textures:Baggins:CoolTexture2.jpg

Four files - simple right?

You suggest there should not be a "Runtime" in the zip. So what's the alternative? Suppose I give you:

Libraries:Materials:Baggins:CoolNewShader1.mt5
Libraries:Materials:Baggins:CoolNewShader2.mt5
Textures:Baggins:CoolTexture1.jpg
Textures:Baggins:CoolTexture2.jpg

But this is no help, because when you drag "Libraries" over, you'll destroy all your existing library content. When you drag "Textures" over, you'll destroy all your existing textures.

So what should I give you?

Baggins:CoolNewShader1.mt5
Baggins:CoolNewShader2.mt5
Baggins:CoolTexture1.jpg
Baggins:CoolTexture2.jpg

But this is no good, because now I've got all four files under Baggins, and that isn't what you need. You need a Baggins in Libraries:Materials, and a different Baggins in Textures.

So now I have to add back in another layer and add a readme to make you understand where they should go.

PutThisInYourMaterials:Baggins:CoolNewShader1.mt5
PutThisInYourMaterials:Baggins:CoolNewShader2.mt5
PutThisInYourTextures:Baggins::CoolTexture1.jpg
PutThisInYourTextures:Baggins:CoolTexture2.jpg

So you still have to drill in twice and do two drag-and-drops.

But wait! You're still screwed. Suppose in the past you downloaded my CoolOldShaders and they are already in your materials folder under Baggins. If you drag this new Baggins, you'll destroy all the content of the existing Baggins.

So now you're forced to go down to the leaf level anyway and move all the files individually.

Now if I also have Pose files and Geometry files and Python files, you have even more careful reading to do and a bunch of individual drag-and-drops you have to perform.

Honestly I don't see a solution to this. It works perfectly as is on the PC so any other arrangement makes it harder for PC users. And no arrangement seems to save any trouble for MAC users. Therefore, I can't understand why you want to make the PC installation more difficult, given that there is no benefit to non-PC users.

I'm not familiar with MAC utilities, but I'm almost certain that there are tools that will allow you to do the single drag-and-drop, merging the content automatically, just as it happens by default on a PC. I sort of remember something called Stuffit Expander or something like that. You should look into getting a tool to help with this task.


Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)


bagginsbill ( ) posted Thu, 17 April 2008 at 10:34 AM

Oh wait, perhaps I misunderstood?

Are you saying they put something above runtime? You're not complaining that they have a runtime, only that they have it under something else?

Yes that is stupid.


Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)


SSAfam1 ( ) posted Thu, 17 April 2008 at 10:36 AM

OMG. I'm just happy to get FREEBIES.


ir ( ) posted Thu, 17 April 2008 at 11:19 AM

Quote - Oh wait, perhaps I misunderstood?

Are you saying they put something above runtime? You're not complaining that they have a runtime, only that they have it under something else?

Yes that is stupid.

Lol, yes, that is what I meant ;)


ir ( ) posted Thu, 17 April 2008 at 11:21 AM

Quote - OMG. I'm just happy to get FREEBIES.

Me too! And I've got a couple freebies of my own out there. I sure as heck don't want to piss people off with my freebies.


SamTherapy ( ) posted Thu, 17 April 2008 at 11:34 AM

From what I've seen, it's mainly stuff from Japan that seems to be zipped in this way.  Maybe there's a reason I'm unaware of.

Anyhow, the simplest method of dealing with it, rather than placing everything manually, is to rezip the resulting "Runtime" folder, then unzip it.  All the stuff will then be placed in the correct locations.

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

My Store

My Gallery


ir ( ) posted Thu, 17 April 2008 at 11:39 AM

There are obviously plenty of ways to "fix" it, but why do people do it in the first place? They obviously use Poser, so I have to wonder if they prefer their zips that way. I'd just like to know the reasoning.


dlfurman ( ) posted Thu, 17 April 2008 at 12:02 PM

When I see files like that they go to the FIXTHIS folder I have in my Poser folders.
I then use PowerDesk with a two window view to DRAG the folders into the right locations.
Bit of a bear, but it gets the job done.

Whatcha gonna do when it's FREE?

"Few are agreeable in conversation, because each thinks more of what he intends to say than that of what others are saying, and listens no more when he himself has a chance to speak." - Francois de la Rochefoucauld

Intel Core i7 920, 24GB RAM, GeForce GTX 1050 4GB video, 6TB HDD space
Poser 12: Inches (Poser(PC) user since 1 and the floppies/manual to prove it!)


ir ( ) posted Thu, 17 April 2008 at 12:17 PM

I hear ya, but WHY do people do it??


Gareee ( ) posted Thu, 17 April 2008 at 12:45 PM

I think there's a prety simpl explanation.

When I add an additional runtime, the runtime is IN a named folder. For instance, my warcow runtime is called Warcow.

I don't add the actual runtime, I add the folder it is acxtually in.

In poser's libraries, it shows up as Warcow.

I COULD rename the runtime folder itself but want to know there a runtime folder somewhere, not poke around in it, to see if it actually is a runtime folder.

It make organisation and management easier for me.

Maybe that's why?

Way too many people take way too many things way too seriously.


chriscox ( ) posted Thu, 17 April 2008 at 1:23 PM · edited Thu, 17 April 2008 at 1:23 PM

BTW, they install just fine if you use the "Install from Zip Archive" feature in Poser 7 (provided you wanted all your downloaded content in the Download runtime)

Chris Cox



Acadia ( ) posted Thu, 17 April 2008 at 3:36 PM

Are you talking about zip files that when unzipped have something like:

Runtime/Libraries/Character/M-Smith/Victoria 3/Dresses/Satin-Dress

Yeah....annoying. But it's also not limited to free stuff. I've downloaded more than my fair share of store items (here and other stores), that have the same type of runtime structure.  I think the record that I've found was 5 or 6 sub folders!  LOL  Oh... and each one had a thumbs.db file in it too.

I don't bother complaining about it.  It's a minor annoyance that I can remedy just by moving the files myself to a higher level. I rename my folders anyway, so it's no big deal.

I'm just grateful to those who make things and offer it to us either free or for purchase.

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi



nickedshield ( ) posted Thu, 17 April 2008 at 4:25 PM

The OP is taling about this type of sturcture Myjunk Runtime etc So when it's unzipped it goes to Myjunk and not into the runtime folder. Fwiw: you don't need to unzip to a dummy folder to look at the zip contents, why not use the Browse function that is built into XP? Locate the runtime folder then cut and paste.

I must remember to remember what it was I had to remember.


ir ( ) posted Thu, 17 April 2008 at 6:12 PM

I'm talking about a structure like this:

MyCoolFreebie/Runtime/Libraries/Character/M-Smith/Victoria 3/Dresses/Satin-Dress

I don't care about the number of folders after runtime, as long as the libraries folders are in the same places.

If, as Gareee says, it's a method of organization, well, shouldn't that be left to me? I don't want other people organizing my runtime. It's like those Poserworld or PoserPros pose files stuck in the Cameras folder. We haven't needed that for three poser versions now, change it.

If the top level in the zip is Runtime, then those who organize everything into multiple runtimes can easily extract to their named runtime. Even so, the one who zipped it is making do some manual work.

As for using XPs zip browse, I usually don't get there. I open the zip from Firefox's downloads window, which opens into the default zip program one might have, Winzip in my case. Then I can easily extract to my poser 7 runtime because it's remembered.

I still don't think there's any valid reason for this type of packaging.

Oh, and I don't think one should be grateful for for-sale products. The vendors should be grateful that we buy them. And I AM grateful for freebies, as I said, I have given some away myself. But what's the point of giving someone a freebie along with a poke in the eye?


Unicornst ( ) posted Thu, 17 April 2008 at 6:34 PM

**There isn't a valid reason for any bought item to have that extra folder and, as a matter of fact, it is against the proper Poser structure according to the guidelines anyone can find when wanting to submit a product to the MarketPlace here. If you should buy one that has this extra folder, it is proper etiquette to inform the vendor first and if that doesn't resolve the problem, then send an email to the marketplace admins.

As for the freebies......could be one of several reasons. One being that the person who had created the freebie did not know better from seeing other files done in this way and no one has ever bothered to send a short note saying something about loving the freebie, but......and then suggesting how to fix for future items. Please...before anyone jumps on me for that, when I first offered a free item, no one told me that I had the file structure all wrong and I would have been so grateful to anyone who had. It would have saved me problems down the road when I packed my first MP item.
Another could be, as was pointed out earlier, some Japanese sites have them this way. It's my understanding the reason for that is that it's the file structure the Japanese version of Poser uses. At least I was told that and not having the Japanese version, couldn't really say for sure.
**


nickedshield ( ) posted Thu, 17 April 2008 at 7:01 PM

ir, I did understand your post on structure, maybe mine wasn't as concise as it could have been. Since I'm still using the dinosaur of Poserdom I still unzip to a dummy, free or Daz exe or other. Makes it a lot easier to make version corrections and check obj locations et all. And yes, I do post freebies myself, not on this site though and I have made a bunch of errors while learning.

I must remember to remember what it was I had to remember.


Willber ( ) posted Thu, 17 April 2008 at 7:04 PM

This format started to show up when you could assign separate runtimes.....AFAIK


pakled ( ) posted Thu, 17 April 2008 at 9:34 PM

I'm just barely starting out. This is probably the most convoluted way to do it, but

I have a Runtime folder as a subfolder of c:.

I create the freebie, then create the subfolders in Poser's Runtime (except for the Props folders which seem to create themselves) where they're actually supposed to go.

The one concession I make is all my freebies are (and will) go into a folder called Pakled!!! (inside joke- the !!!, if applied to the beginning of the folder name, places it on top of the list...;) This way everything can eventually be found by looking for me...;)

Then I copy them out of Poser's runtime, into the Runtime folder of C: (root directory). Then zip it.

once the Runtime gets zipped, the folders are put in another folder called Runtime Done, and this keeps people from getting dozens of freebies at once...;)

I wish I'd said that.. The Staircase Wit

anahl nathrak uth vas betude doth yel dyenvey..;)


R_Hatch ( ) posted Fri, 18 April 2008 at 2:30 AM

Quote -
...this keeps people from getting dozens of freebies at once...;)

You selfish bastard ;p

Seriously, though: the only time I really get annoyed by a freebie is when it has bad external references.


Plutom ( ) posted Fri, 18 April 2008 at 8:46 AM

The only time I get frustrated at freebies is when a few  folks forget to mention that you must have the face and body morphs to work.  The only way you find out is when Poser begins asking for this and that, more of this and more of that and one has to do the cntrl alt delete routine (especially if its a great face and it usually is).  Jan


Realmling ( ) posted Fri, 18 April 2008 at 9:41 AM

Well, I'll put it forth now that you'll probably not want to download any of my freebies....because that's how I package and here's why -

I work on any number of projects at the same time, so to keep everything organized they go into a folder named for what they are. Inisde this is the runtime structure, next to it in this same base folder is a preview image, readme file, and template folder as needed. When everything is done, it's zipped up from this base folder. Making things for Poser is a hobby, I have a full time job, a home under remodeling and a family.....so I do things in a way that I can actually get things done and share with others if they so desire.

I've dowloaded numerous items, and I went with my system as I found it to be a better solution than having to hunt through every single folder to find a readme file, templates and whatever else stuck in that was/wasn't needed. I don't install anything directly to my runtimes...even DAZ installers get sent to a temp folder so I can get rid of all the crap I don't need, change over rsr files and then move things to where I want them to go. I browse zip downloads the same way to see if I'm going to have to fix anything or to see how something is named if I'll need to change it so I can find it again when it's time to use it.

My apologies that my packaging system does not work for you, but as people in the past have only ever said thank you for my items, I guess my system apparently works OK for most people and I don't think I'll worry about changing it any time soon. I don't wish to stop sharing the silly items I make, and it seems I'll loose a few "customers" here and there...but since I'm not making any money, I guess it's not going to harm me too much.

Crazy alien chick FTW! (yeah....right....)

Realm of Savage - Poser goodies and so much more!


~~


ir ( ) posted Fri, 18 April 2008 at 10:37 AM

Thanks for the explanation, Realmling. My goal was not to prevent people giving freebies, or to belittle anyone, but to find out why, since it's very annoying to me, lol.

I create my freebies and store items the same way you do, but when I zip them I simply don't include the top-level folder I use as categorization. Couldn't you do the same so that the zip has Runtime as the top-level folder? It's not difficult, but maybe it's just not something you've tried to do.
And doing this doesn't prevent anyone from performing the action you perform when you unzip something. But for those of us who like to keep things simple, and open and extract without any other hassle, it keeps us happy ;)

I also have a full-time job, Poser stuff is a hobby, but there's still no need to present your categorization system in the distributed zip. Just drop down one level, that's all it takes ;)


ir ( ) posted Fri, 18 April 2008 at 10:38 AM

Oh, and as I mentioned previously, the one time I did send a not about the file structures, I was greeted with disdain and a "Screw you guys, I'm going home" attitude. Doesn't induce me to want to keep sending notes.


Realmling ( ) posted Fri, 18 April 2008 at 12:43 PM

I probably could...just I'm usually sick of the project by then, and want to get it off my desktop....I just right click the folder and tell WinRar to zip it for me so I can put it away. =P

(what can I say...I get lazy at the end after hours of making thumbs and preview images...don't know why but I hate that part sometimes, seems to drive me nuts more than getting my UVs fixed up)

Didn't mean to come across as my normal B%*$& self - what I get for posting during morning wake up routine. ^_~

Crazy alien chick FTW! (yeah....right....)

Realm of Savage - Poser goodies and so much more!


~~


Unicornst ( ) posted Fri, 18 April 2008 at 1:00 PM

Quote - (what can I say...I get lazy at the end after hours of making thumbs and preview images...don't know why but I hate that part sometimes, seems to drive me nuts more than getting my UVs fixed up)

Don't feel too bad. 99% of the vendors here can tell you they feel the same way when it comes to making the pngs and promos. grin


SamTherapy ( ) posted Fri, 18 April 2008 at 1:10 PM

Quote - > Quote - (what can I say...I get lazy at the end after hours of making thumbs and preview images...don't know why but I hate that part sometimes, seems to drive me nuts more than getting my UVs fixed up)

Don't feel too bad. 99% of the vendors here can tell you they feel the same way when it comes to making the pngs and promos. grin

Oh, don't I just.  And all the damn MAT poses.  It's around about that time I'm ready to start breaking things.

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

My Store

My Gallery


Unicornst ( ) posted Fri, 18 April 2008 at 1:27 PM

**Yep. I try putting that chore on my store partner, but it doesn't fly. lol She will do promos, at least. grin

So anyone making something can be so tired of all the extra that goes into it that they could easily overlook having an extra folder.
**


Conniekat8 ( ) posted Fri, 18 April 2008 at 1:31 PM

Quote - **Yep. I try putting that chore on my store partner, but it doesn't fly. lol She will do promos, at least. grin

So anyone making something can be so tired of all the extra that goes into it that they could easily overlook having an extra folder.
**

No kidding!  I've been there done that!

Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!"  Whaz yurs?
BadKittehCo Store  BadKittehCo Freebies and product support


ir ( ) posted Fri, 18 April 2008 at 1:39 PM

Lol, I feel your pain. I'm sure I haven't done nearly as many as you, but it does get tedious.


wdupre ( ) posted Fri, 18 April 2008 at 3:18 PM

there is a valid reason for zipping the runtime inside a folder which describes the product. and that is that mac users have to hand load files from a zip, rather than directing the zip to a runtime and having it autoinstall, due to the fact that the mac distructively overwrites files rather than merging as in the PC. and when they unzip, what they end up with is a generic Runtime folder, this can get confusing when dealing with a bunch of Zip installers, according to some mac Poser users I know. so they tend to prefer that the runtime is zipped within another discriptive folder. PC users are just the opposite obviously. I often wonder why no one every came up with an autoinstaller unzip program for the mac.



ir ( ) posted Fri, 18 April 2008 at 4:17 PM

Well, the simple solution, so as not to inconvenience the largest number of users, is for mac users to create a temp folder to unzip to. I don't know the interface, but with winzip I'm presented with the last path used, and can simply type in another folder on the end of the path displayed. Very simple.

Is this destructive behavior of the Mac desired? I think it would drive me insane.


pakled ( ) posted Fri, 18 April 2008 at 8:32 PM

Last Mac I used was the LCII...;) wouldn't even dream of writing stuff for an OS (Tiger, or Heffalump, or Pusmepullu, or whatever the latest one is...;) I don't know for squat...;)

I'm trying to not have bad external references....but I only started posting things 2 weeks ago... I'll get better...;)

we all start somewhere...;)

but I understand what you're talking about (original point). I just have a download directory that everything gets unzipped to. Then you just cut and paste into Poser.

I wish I'd said that.. The Staircase Wit

anahl nathrak uth vas betude doth yel dyenvey..;)


markschum ( ) posted Fri, 18 April 2008 at 8:43 PM

that folder structure is typical for a external runtime.

if you extract it to a work folder and then drag and drop the runtime folder on the poser program folder , it will give you a caution message and MERGE the runtimes .


ir ( ) posted Fri, 18 April 2008 at 9:03 PM

Quote - that folder structure is typical for a external runtime.

if you extract it to a work folder and then drag and drop the runtime folder on the poser program folder , it will give you a caution message and MERGE the runtimes .

Which folder structure is typical for an external runtime?

Why bother with the additional step is my point. No matter whether you use the basic Poser runtime or externals, you'll still have Runtime at the top, no? I use an external runtime and do NOT want folders in the zip above Runtime. It's useless to me. And from what I'm seeing it's useless to everyone else here. There's no reason in having that extra step or multiple steps just to place the item into the proper structure. Not having a spurious folder above Runtime in the zip doesn't prevent any of the other methods used mentioned in this thread for placement of stuff. Everyone, as far as I can tell, is describing that they eventually do away with that top folder if one exists above Runtime, so why have it in the first place?

Ok, so we have some lazy vendors ;) It's a reason, I can accept that. And I would ask that they try not to be quite so lazy, whether it's a freebie or not. Just a friendly please, that's all. Hey, I'm lazy too! I can relate! Which is why I despise having to go looking for orphaned runtimes and drag and drop folders when I don't need to ;)


wenke ( ) posted Fri, 18 April 2008 at 11:59 PM · edited Sat, 19 April 2008 at 12:03 AM

Hi ir,

i think the reason is, if I zip my runtime folder, i have to give the zip file a name like ... wenke_poses.zip. So if I unzip this folder with Winzip - Extract to here... - Winzip make a folder from this name (wenke_poses) above the runtime folder. If I use Winrar and Extract to here, I only have the runtime folder and the subfolders.
Sorry for my english, but I hope you understand my explanation. 


ir ( ) posted Sat, 19 April 2008 at 1:47 AM

I think I understand, Wenke. But there are options with Winzip. If you're in the Runtime folder and zip from there, then Runtime will be the top level folder. I've done it many times. But as far as I know, unzipping will not create a folder the same name as the zip file, if that's what you're saying. At least that hasn't been my experience.

Thanks for the reply!


svdl ( ) posted Mon, 21 April 2008 at 8:59 AM

There must be guidelines for uploading a package to the marketplace. It might be an idea to post a link to these guidelines as a sticky in the Freestuff forum, along with some manuals how to use WinZip/WinRar/Stuffit to zip up the items into this format. Maybe some explanation on how to use the details section of the upload page, the commercial/non-commercial choice, how to write a good readme, and so on. Links to utilities like RTEncoder could also be very useful.

There's been quite some gripes about freebies in the recent past. Well, griping doesn't accomplish anything. Providing a manual might not be a perfect solution, but it sure is better than none at all.

I'm willing to write an illustrated tutorial that shows how to set up a folder structure and package it into a ZIP file using WinZip and WinRar so that it meets marketplace conditions. A Mac user might be able to do the same for Stuffit/Expander. Someone else might have a good understanding of how a readme should be constructed. And others might be able to translate those tutorials into Spanish, French or another language.

The pen is mightier than the sword. But if you literally want to have some impact, use a typewriter

My gallery   My freestuff


Unicornst ( ) posted Mon, 21 April 2008 at 9:34 AM

Attached Link: Poser Product Packaging

**There is a guide for setting up a Poser Package and it's available to all. There's even a bit of a tutorial on how to set up the folder you can get to by clicking the link provided in the guidelines.

I think your idea is a good one, svdl.
**


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