The other day, I was at my local bookstore, picking up the rounds of the usual magazines -- GQ, Martha Stewart Living, Sports Illustrated, American West (my bookseller doesnt know what to make of my choices sometimes). The most recent issue of GQ has, literally, non-stop advertising until page 115, save for the table of contents and the publishing block and a page of bios of the current issue's contributors. But to really get to the reason you buy the magazine in the first place, you have to get past those first 115 pages.

Sometimes I skip over them in a heartbeat. Sometimes I actually flip through and wonder if maybe I can actually afford a $300 shirt or a $7,000 suit (and no, I cant). But they're usually fun to look at and sometimes even helpful in aiding me in figuring out what I want to wear when I cant afford a $300 shirt or a $7,000 suit. And I'm happy to tolerate them as I move on to the cover articles about interviews with the latest flavour of the hour actor and how to have the best sex ever.

Commercial posts? :: shrug :: Tag 'em, and be done with it... whether they sell here or DAZ or wherever. Face it: we're a highly integrated community. There are things in this store that depend on purchases from some place else -- most things, actually, when you really look at it. And to simply pretend those other places dont exist is... well, silly, to be coldly blunt about it. Will we drown in adverts? I doubt it. They dont at DAZ, so I doubt they will here. And folks will come to Rsity anyway: putting in the adverts would spark a little more site traffic, no doubt.

Frankly, this whole thing is such a non-issue; I'm surprised it's lasted six pages. But since it has, two final observations --

(1) Would it kill the admins to make an appearance and explain their position rather than relying on forum moderators to do their dirty work? I'm sure Jen et al have better things to do than be your messenger boys.

(2) Jen: love the new avatar. My boss is looking at me and wondering why I'm giggling...

Quote -
(1) Would it kill the admins to make an appearance and explain their position rather than relying on forum moderators to do their dirty work? I'm sure Jen et al have better things to do than be your messenger boys.

I have wondered the same, since Clint left, things have not been nearly as friendly and interactive.

Quote - Are you contenting that the vast majority of Renderosity users were sick and tired of being told about free gifts in the main Poser forum? It's just commonsense to assume that the vast majority of the people didn't mind free stuff announcements in the main forum since people tend to like gifts. The only conceivable objections would be raised by merchants who coveted the permission to advertise in the main forum. The fact that the few were heeded enough that existing policy was changed should tell you that merchants have more influence around here than the average forum user, though the influence isn't yet absolute. If it was, we'd have creators starting advertisement threads in the main forum.

I am not contending that the "vast majority" desire this, or that.  I wasn't the one who contended that the "vast majority" held to any particular attitude or opinion.  In fact, my post was to point out that claiming to speak for the "vast majority" is a mistake in logic at its base.  And as for it being a matter of "common sense" that the "vast majority" of users think this way, or that way -- like all such assumptions: it carries with it a built-in danger of being wrong.

Quote - I think Renderosity wants the greatest good for the greatest number, within the context of the greatest profit and the least flack.

Sounds like standard business practice to me; albeit worded in such a way as to imply that standard business practice is a negative thing.  Please the largest number of people = have a more successful business.  Such an arrangement can always be portrayed in a negative light, of course.  But it remains as the way that a successful business operates.

BTW - there still appears to be the underlying assumption being made here that "the vendors" represent some sort of a monolith -- and that all of "the vendors" are a homogeneous group whose interests all run in only one direction -- and who therefore all see eye-to-eye with each other.  As I mentioned earlier, and I'll repeat it again here for emphasis: "the vendors" are most definitely not a monolithic group, any more than the general members & forum participants are.  "The vendors" don't all agree among themselves as to what should be done, or as to how it should be implemented.  So the contention that "the vendors" -- as a monolithic group -- are behind a given decision is about like saying that everyone in the Poser forum agrees with one another over what should and what should not be posted in the Poser forum.  Hint: they don't.

Quote - Do I care enough about forum policy to not regret the time I took to write this response? umm…no

That's good.  And it's also good that no one suggested that you should regret it.

Quote -

(1) Would it kill the admins to make an appearance and explain their position rather than relying on forum moderators to do their dirty work? I'm sure Jen et al have better things to do than be your messenger boys.

(2) Jen: love the new avatar. My boss is looking at me and wondering why I'm giggling...

1)  I literally have nothing better to do until 4pm, which is when I go to my w*rk ;)   Plus, since we're in the forum more than the admin are, and y'all see us more, it's easier to hear from us.  shrug  Seriously, the easiest way to reach admin is at Admin@Renderosity.com 

1. KawaiiNot.com is my favorite webcomic.  Megan Murphy ( the artist) seriously cracks me up daily, even on days when she doesn't release a comic.

Quote - Frankly, this whole thing is such a non-issue; I'm surprised it's lasted six pages.

Good point.  In fact, it's one of the best points that's been made in this entire thread.

In fact, my post was to point out that claiming to speak for the "vast majority" is a mistake in logic at its base. It's a good thing I wasn't claiming to speak for the majority. I was just stating what should be obvious. like all such assumptions: it carries with it a built-in danger of being wrong. The vast majority of Renderosity's users perfer to breathe another breath. Of course, I could be wrong. It's just that some things like preferring to breathe and people liking gifts are fairly safe assumptions. Sounds like standard business practice to me; albeit worded in such a way as to imply that standard business practice is a negative thing. No. It's just an honest assessment, though might seem negative to those accustomed to hearing status quo tongue baths. The crux of my point was that pleasing the vast majority isn't the top priority here and that not all participants here are equal. I'm not complaining. Like so many other places and things, this isn't a democracy so we might as well stop pretending that our chat board opinions count equally along with those who might walk away, taking 50% of their potential profits elsewhere. BTW - there still appears to be the underlying assumption being made here that "the vendors" represent some sort of a monolith The only vendors I'm referring to are those who agitated for the change in forum rules. Of course, maybe none of them wanted the change. Maybe the law of gravity will be repealed next week as well.

sigh  Now you're contradicting yourself within the body of your own response.  You're saying that you aren't claiming to speak for the "vast majority", and then you go on to represent your personally held opinions as being equivalent to the necessity of breathing.  And, oh yeah -- you bring up the law of gravity, too.  Thereby informing us that your opinions are as set-in-stone for the majority as are both breathing and gravity.

Very good -- you go on speaking for the vast majority.  In the meantime: they'll continue to breath their own air, and to make their own decisions about what does and what does not please them.

Heh -- I have to admit that appeals to the law of gravity give this matter a lot of additional weight. 

In the meantime: they'll continue to breath their own air, and to make their own decisions about what does and what does not please them. Who are you to serve as a public spokesman for the majority by asserting that they'll continue to breathe air? That's just your opinion and you might be very wrong! lol

You are correct, of course.  They always have the option to stop breathing air, if they so choose.

Too bad that the choice over whether or not to continue breathing air has nothing whatsoever to do with forum posting policies.

Too bad that the choice over whether or not to continue breathing air has nothing whatsoever to do with forum posting policies. In a roundabout way it actually does, but tracing the thread would be too tedious. A radical anti-assumption stance cripples common sense and obscures the obvious.

Quote - Too bad that the choice over whether or not to continue breathing air has nothing whatsoever to do with forum posting policies. In a roundabout way it actually does, but tracing the thread would be too tedious.

In a roundabout way, it actually doesn't.  And that's what's made this thread so tedious.

Quote - A radical anti-assumption stance cripples common sense and obscures the obvious.

.......let's see........"a radical anti-assumption stance"..........is that a new way to.......?  But I have to admit: 'obscuring the obvious' requires talent.  ahem  Or perhaps it doesn't........

.... cant....breathe.....................

Quote - Ok, where is the poll? ;)

Link to the unofficial poll thread related to this:
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2737680

Quote - .... cant....breathe.....................

It's a choice!  Just remember that it's a choice !  :lol:

Quote - > Quote -

I'm actually surprized by how many people are saying they wouldn't be bothered with allowing commercial posts in here, as long as they can be tagged. Much like they are in DAZ commons. It appeard to be 3-4 people in favor of this to one opposing it.
.

if it were like the daz forums and open to all then I'd be all for it,but in keeping with rositys latest bout of new rules I cant see that happening, even if you could have commercialy tagged threads here they'd still be restricted to renderosity only products ...so why bother? :

I gather that no outside links rule was put in place in order to ahem motivate a group of vendors to become exclusive with rendo.
I'm not sure if the negative backlash from this latest rule may not be greater then it's benefit, and the measure ends up being short lived. I hope I hope I hope.

Okay, so call me polyanna, I haven't lost hope - yet....  maybe it won't happen. In that case, why bother is right.

There are other ways to motivate vendors to be exclusive and motivate people to buy from rendo. Usually one attracts more bees with honey....

Quote - .... cant....breathe.....................

Kitty gives Sean a good whack upsi..... on the back!

Here, does that help? Are you choking... Do you need a heimlich

Quote - > Quote - .... cant....breathe.....................

Kitty gives Sean a good whack upsi..... on the back!

Here, does that help? Are you choking... Do you need a heimlich

Calling Doctor Moe, Doctor Larry, Doctor Curly, Doctor Heimlich. Manuever's needed in the Poser Ward! 

Quote - Kendra wrote:
Sometimes it's not the attention we want and since the change Anton wants is not going to happen, the alternate very well could. 

I wasn't asking for any changes. I just was asking why there are two differing policies for the exact same types of posts.

You keep saying I benefit currently in some way. I am not a merchant and have no commercial inventory anywhere in Poserdom. Apollo is free and his use, by others, benefits me in no way. Whether 100000 or 10 people use him is  the same to me.

Quote - JenX wrote:
It's not so much that there are separate rules for content creators and non-content creators.  It's simply that one cannot post advertisements about their product, for free or for profit, in the forum.

And yet the other can.

Jen,
That does mean there are separate rules for content creators and non-content creators..

-Joe Creator cannot make a post saying "My new Hair at Daz"
-Suzy User can post saying "Joe's new Hair at Daz!"

As I said in my initial post, I don't see how there is any  difference in the end result. A commercial post is made.  As I said, this issue has zeo effect on me, I have always been very pro-content creator, free or otherwise.

If the policies were designed to prevent commercial spam, and yet commercial spam by users is allowed, then the policy is bogus and discriminatory.

I asked my questions to better understand the rational of the admins in having a policy that is partially broken and selectively enforced. The decision does seem biased and reflective of personal preferences. And why I asked the admins instead.

Jen,

You keep mentioning question/discussion threads, etc. This is not what I am refering to.

Explain to me specifically the need for "New at Daz" threads or better yet, the "Alice 2.0" thread.

Not trying to single anyone out. Those types of threads are nothing more than annoucement threads you do not allow creators to make. Wht then would you want anyone else to make them.

Just explain that, without bringing up help threads, discussion threads, vendors on vacation, etc.

Distinction without a difference### From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A distinction without a difference is a type of argument where one word or phrase is preferred to another, but results in no difference to the final outcome. It is particularly used when a word or phrase has connotations associated with it that one party to an argument prefers to avoid.

"In legal terminology it means a change in definition which does not change the set which is defined. For example changing 'unseparated married men' to 'males who have a non-separated spouse' is a distinction without a difference.

Quote - You misunderstoof what I was asking. Noone said "Blanket ban"

Actually, I think I was the one who mentioned (or implied) that a blanket ban should be put into place. To me, a commercial posting is a commercial posting, whether it comes from a merchant posting a message about his own product or someone else posting the same message. So, "no commercial postings" should mean no more "Hey, check out the latest from Merchant X, over at DAZ".

Even now, at the 6th page of this thread, the admins really haven't explained the difference between the two. Like Anton said, it doesn't matter who the author of the thread is- it's still a thread announcing a for-sale product... sometimes for sale on another site.