greed ain't the issue here, and everyone is totally off track of what the original issue was. to put it bluntly Im tired of explaining this time and time again. 1) whats stated in the readme file is just a simple breakdown of what is already in the Liscense thats required to be posted here. 2) i stated see readme file for discription of comercial usage. 3) The main issue that was being addressed was someone trying to get full rights to do whatever the hell they wanted to with my stuff, hell should i hand them the keys to my front door and let them lease my house too? 4) Read the product page, sense people are so freiling paranoid and can't understand i've posted there "just ingore the readme file cause no one seems to understand what i was saying in the first place". 5) a readme file has no presidence over the "License Agreement" sense that is the agreement of useage for the product in the first place and the readme file is stating to look at that for details of useage. 6) people here are just way overly greedy themselves. You make something good, u stick it up for a cheep price and ask they not distribute the models and they have a cow over it? i really don't get the point. U make a game that ur going to use them in, hell ya i want you to contact me first so i can verify with you that there is no way that the models are going to be extracted and used. 7) im tired of explaining myself over and over again, could u people accually read whats posted instead of just skimming over it? 8) The Liscense Agreement that is in all my products is the same liscense agreement posted here at renderosity that they ASK YOU INCLUDE IN ANY SALES ITEM in its original UNMODIFIED VERSION. so if you have a problem with the liscense agreement I STRONGLY URGE you take it up with Renderosity and not me. I Also Strongly Urge you don't buy anything from this site if you don't agree to the liscense agreement SENSE ITS IN EVERYTHING SOLD AT THIS SITE. 9) i Asked Renderosity to REMOVE the README file sense I MADE A MISTAKE AND MADE U READ THE LISCENSE AGREEMENT for the COMERCIAL Usage clause. Dudes, u need to start reading the documents included with the models instead of tossing them aside if you would this whole bitch fit everyone is having now probably wouldn'tbe happening. Probably 1/2 of you haven't even bought any models from here and have just downloaded the freebies, but who knows.... ........these forums are proving to be worse then the local town gossip...... Im tired of this discussion... have fun... im done saying the same thing over and over and over.....

Amen to this Mehndi!

Caleb68: If you don't want people to use your models then don't sell them!

Well this topic sure has gotten responses. Again we feel simply that we make the models, we sell them to the user, you want to put it in a game or on a picture or whatever, you buy it, it belongs to you to do with what you will. This is not to degrade anyone in anyway but lets put this in perspective, we are talking about 3D Models, data, and lets break it down to lines. Not that it doesn't surely take work, effort and skills, but this isn't rocket science where we have come up with some special secret designs that can't be stolen. I agree with pdblake, if you don't want people to use your models, you should think twice about selling it to the public. It is true though that it is possible that the sale of an item will go down because someone has stolen it, but most times we find the loss of a model, because it was shared or taken from someone else, is minimal. On our web site we try to make the best possible pictures of our models for those who can't afford to buy them to be able to at least grap the pictures to use. That is why we don't put watermarks on our pictures of our models. We love to see what others can do with our models. You buy them from us, feel free to use them anywhere. But again this is our feelings about this long subject. Mike and Sharen SAM'S3d

The way I see it is anything you buy should be ok to use in whatever you choose, be it commercial or not, as long as you are not redistributing the product as a freebie or for profit under your own name (therefore stealing) then there should be no problem. I personally would be quite flattered to find a character of mine pop up in a game but I must admit it would stick in the throat that I got $20 for the sale & the game was making a fortune :) As long as my products aren't being redistributed then please use them as they were intended, for your personal & commercial use.

BrianR... think of the WONDERFUL resume you could build then, and go work for a game company doing models your own self ;) If even one of our models makes it into something important here, it will open doors for that artist.

I just looked in the store and nopt one of caleb68s products state that they cannot be used commercially. This means that the buyer doesn't even know about this restriction until they have paid for and downloaded the product. This is very misleading.

Caleb made a mistake. He says he thought he was clarifying the standard license, but in fact he just confused it. If you buy his products, you can, and I assume always could, use them in commercial renderings, animations and any other format where the models can not be extracted. I think he isn't particularly articulate and others here have either continued to misunderstand his clarifications or have just been ignoring them and stoking the fires. The restrictions are the same for his products as all the others under the standard Renderosity License. You can do what you like with them, commercially or not, but can not redistribute the meshes, or include them in a medium where they could be extracted. Whether that is fuily what he intended originally, I don't know, but he's been making it clear that that is how it stands now, so what the heck? On a side note, some have stated they would have no problem having their models used in video games. For most users, models with in a game may not be extractable. However, some games do offer SDKs to the public or even polished editors. In such a case, it is very possible that the model could be extracted from with in the game and then used gratis by others. In such a case, it would fall under unacceptable use in the standard Renderosity License, because it would be extractable. If a game maker wanted to use a model under such a situation, they should contact the model author and explain the situaton and attempt to gain additional license for the game. Some may offer it for free, others may ask for compensation or even flatly refuse. It's their right to decide whether or not to extend rights.

redistribution rights and usage rights are very different things, i'm sure we're all aware. i personally am thrilled every time i see something i've created being used by another artist, whether it's a simple image, or a commercial image, or whatever. i would be thrilled to death if someone put something of mine into a popular game or (omigod!) a movie!!! i've already had a couple of requests, done from common courtesy, not usage stipulations, to use different things in some independant games. i was happy to say yes, thank you kindly for asking! it's creatively stimulating to me when someone else can make use of my creations! it's a natural high :) i think many of us would and do give permission for games and such simply for the thrill, and the most compensation asked for would be credit given.

Can we stop the piling on and grandstanding? How many times does caleb68 have to state what his intentions were? How many times does he have to drop to his knees and beg you to understand what he was trying to say? He tried to clarify something and, instead, mucked it up. Okay, he made a mistake. He confused the matter. So have others. If I may quote - "Again we feel simply that we make the models, we sell them to the user, you want to put it in a game or on a picture or whatever, you buy it, it belongs to you to do with what you will." Do with it what I will? Okay, it is my will to compile them into a package and resell them on CD. Not what was intended by the above statement? Hmmm,... someone stated that "... it belongs to you to do with what you will." If it belongs to me and I can do with it what I will, why can't I resell them? It is not what was intended, but that is how it came across. What caleb68 stated did not come across meaning what he intended. It was a misunderstanding and he has been vilified and publicly whipped continuously for it. Enough is enough, good people. I do not know caleb68 from Adam. But I think it is time everyone got off his back, stopped piling on and quit using this as an opportunity to grandstand. This is not exactly the way a "community of artists" should be treating one of their own. Take care and Godspeed.

The license states: "Buyer acquires the copyright to any derivative works created using this work, provided none of the original materials can be extracted from the derivative work by any means." It's simple. If someone makes a video game and the model is extractable, then the person can obviously be held subject to liability. Not only that, but in order to sell a game, a person would need to distribute the actual model for the players to use, even if it is not extractable. If this can be taken as implied by the license, then the buyer who distributes the video game can be held at fault for redistributing the physical model, whether the model itself is usable or not. By the way: Law and enforcement of laws don't mean anything except what a judge is feeling at any particular moment or whether or not the judge happens to be on good terms with a particular attorney or law firm, which party appears more respectable on the surface, which party is on better terms with the judges assistants, and a number of other things, but very often nothing in relation to the actual facts of the case.

I agree Casmerica, I think we have all had time to digest that somehow what Caleb said, and what he was trying to really say, got muddled and messed up. It is being fixed by the store administration, who are working with him to help clarify the readme and such in his products so that no further misunderstandings occur. :) Lets all give the guy a break... if this were easy stuff after all, trying to explain usage rights, all the lawyers would be out of work, having to go begging for handouts on the streetcorner :)

I re-purchased the package, but the readme does still need to be changed as it still states for commercial use you have to contact caleb. I have a email in to caleb and I also sent a copy to the store. The ad reflects the change but the readme doesn't so I still don't feel comfortable with it. Caleb if you see this before you check your mail please contact me. Marque

Good Show Marque :)

ahh, okay, now people are starting to catch up... (i only caught up in my post #50 meself) has anyone thought of caleb68's original problem? the reason he posted in the first place? (and caused people to re-read his readme which started a totally separate chain reaction in this thread.) he said someone left a product feedback or im (i'm not sure which) that seemed to imply a person who bought his product thinks they can redistribute his object. now that we're done roasting caleb68, is it time to help him with his original problem? Mehndi, you're one of the store staff, can you guys do something? goodluck caleb68 ... unfortunately, if it had gotten into unscrupulous hands, who knows how many ftp sites its on by now... quick, take everything down off the internet! now!!! ok, don't throw things at me, i just watched Shrek. i'm in a silly mood.

Good poimt AprilYSH. I am working with caleb to update his read me file now. Have also posted a link to this thread in the contributors forum to let everyone know. The testers are also aware and will watch for additional restrictions in the read me and make sure they are in the product description. The customers that have provided the initial feedback have all contacted caleb68 and are satisfied. thanks for considering the follow up. yvette