:P

LOL!

Me

A bit strong I know but sometimes you just have to say it lol.

Quote - maybe I miss spoke  - sorry.

apparently with Daz Studio you can export bvh file for use in Second Life and Hexagon 2.5 has the SL primitives.

That's not an exclusive Daz Studio problem. SL can import any BVH file.  The primatives are a special kind of TGA file. There is no way you could ever export any usefull model from Poser/DS into SL using this method.

Linden Labs are very lax about copyright infringement, and they have always been that way. It's the number one complaint from SL community and it comes up over and over on their forums. It's an unfortunate fact of life that a few 100 users, out of millions, can cause so much grief. Pretty much the same that I have heard of Poser users who post copyright material on Taiwan or Russian website.

The TC2 converter will probably dissapear when Daz gets enough heat put on them. But don't expect to get any response from LL. They are quite happy to sit back and turn a blind eye as long as they are making money.

Just a thought on quality. Even with the TC2 program I don't think the textures simply converted from Poser could be as good as the ones made by the top designers in SL because of the way the lighting is handled.  The limited lighting in SL means that the best textures have a lot of shading 'baked' in. A flatter texture designed for Poser to do the lighting will look kinda flat. I have tried making textures for both and found that creating a texture that looks reasonable in Poser is far easier than creating one that looks good in SL. (I use the term 'good' very loosly here given my limited PS skills). 

All DAZ is going to do is bury their collective heads in the Utah sands while they collect their 50% of sales for the plugin.  As far as they're concerned, they're no responsible.  One, it's a PA product and two, they put a clause in their readme sating it was a no-no. 

*I just got a response from DAZ copyright staff and they see the legal problem being discussed.  I think this was a genuine oversight on their part, they tell me they're going to discuss this with their higher-ups and decide what to do.  It being the weekend, I guess this will have to wait until Monday or later.

Hey Pjz99

Any word from the "higher ups" ?

They haven't emailed me anything, and I'm in a pretty awkward position to bug them about it, as I'm waiting to have my electrical power and internet connection restored after Hurricane Ike.  I encourage other people to drive this issue with DAZ, as I think it's a very serious legal exposure for them and will enable extensive copyright infringement against basically all the popular Poser texture artists.  DAZ has not even put a word of warning language on the sell page by now, which I find terribly disappointing.

Blackhearted/Rio, Sarsa, Rebelmommy, Liquid Rust, Rhiannon, Jepe, and anybody else I am too dumb to name here - you people really ought to be complaining to DAZ's legal department right now.

I have seen designs ( don't know if copied or converted, legally or otherwise) from Poser artists,  appearing in Second Life.

As long as some other people do not respect the IP of creators, piracy will continue in the real and  virtual worlds.  It is SO difficult to enforce, it borders on the maddening.  

There is definitely something wrong with the fundamental premise underlying the economic behaviour between creator-seller and buyer-user counterparties.  Creator expects buyer to feel satisfied that buyer has paid for lelal right to use.  But in fact, buyer has the additional temptation of illegally selling onwards, or of sharing illegally in a private buying club.  And thereafter come the leaks - some buyers/users offer the item for free, as a bait or otherwise, perhaps for malicious purposes - spreading botnets and malware via illicit downloads.

Maddening, as I said.

*They haven't emailed me anything, and I'm in a pretty awkward position to bug them about it, as I'm waiting to have my electrical power and internet connection restored after Hurricane Ike.  I encourage other people to drive this issue with DAZ, as I think it's a very serious legal exposure for them and will enable extensive copyright infringement against basically all the popular Poser texture artists.  DAZ has not even put a word of warning language on the sell page by now, which I find terribly disappointing.

Blackhearted/Rio, Sarsa, Rebelmommy, Liquid Rust, Rhiannon, Jepe, and anybody else I am too dumb to name here - you people really ought to be complaining to DAZ's legal department right now.

I'm sorry to hear about your predicament.  Is there any thing I can do to help?

There is a lot of wisdom in your statement.  As the wall between poser and the rest of the 3d world crumbles I hope vendors realize they are no longer just supplying the poser market.

*As long as some other people do not respect the IP of creators, piracy will continue in the real and  virtual worlds.  It is SO difficult to enforce, it borders on the maddening.  

We can catch them through vigilance.  Enforcement should be the lawyers job and damages awarded based on one's EULA.

Quote - > Quote - Unless you are the original copyright owner of the textures you converted - Second Life textures may only be used on your own personal avatar and may not be transfered, shared or sold in the Second Life online world.

from the Rosity EULA:

Quote - The Buyer may not redistribute this archive file, in whole or in part. The Buyer may not store it any place on a network or on the Internet where it may be referenced by a third party. Buyer acquires the copyright to any derivative works created using this work, provided none of the original materials can be extracted from the derivative work by any means.
If Artist can show that any of the original material can be extracted from Buyer's derivative work,
Artist can demand both the original and derivative work, and all copies thereof be deleted.

by converting it to a Second Life avatar skin, you are violating the EULA in several ways:

1. you are essentially 'distributing' the texture to anyone that sees your avatar
2. it is extractable through copy bots that run rampant in SL (and always will)
3. by uploading your avatar skin you are actually granting Linden Labs a royalty free license to use and distribute that content - even to third parties. you do not have the right to grant this.

Quote - Recently, the topic of intellectual property rights and virtual worlds has taken center stage. On Monday, Linden Labs reported that Second Life had been invaded by a “copybot”, a nefarious program capable of duplicating resident’s creative content. Because the Second Life economy is propped on the sale of user-generated content, the copybot was essentially stealing people’s intellectual (or virtual) property. In the copy-bot’s wake, Second Life residents were finally challenged with the predicament — Is the content that we create in a virtual world our own? Or does it belong to the owner of that world?

In Second Life, residents create unique clothing, buildings, hairstyles and artwork, etc., to sell for virtual dollars that can be exchanged for real money. As a result, virtual intellectual property is tied to a real-world dollar amount. Yet, Linden Lab’s terms of service agreement has the following to offer:

“…you understand and agree that by submitting your Content to any area of the service, you automatically grant (and you represent and warrant that you have the right to grant) to Linden Lab: (a) a royalty-free, worldwide, fully paid-up, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive right and license to (i) use, reproduce and distribute your Content within the Service as permitted by you through your interactions on the Service, and (ii) use and reproduce (and to authorize third parties to use and reproduce) any of your Content in any or all media for marketing and/or promotional purposes in connection with the Service;”

It is both interesting and sad at the same time. I'm majoring in Film and Digital Media and one of the concepts that was addressed in the curriculum was the "loop hole" factor regarding digital or "new"  media. The medium is still new in the world when compared to cinema, books or other means of distribution. Therefore, laws governing this medium are few and far between. Most existing copyright laws are older than the medium itself. The sad thing is people know this and take advantage of it big time. Best cases that illustrated this loophole were the Napster case of the 1990s and the 2008 Writer's Strike. The problem is nobody can clarify what or who the legal jurisdiction of the internet really is. 

Hmm, interesting thread ... but don't lose your health over it.

As an engineer doing many patentable things ... I don't bother since I'm small and don't have a million$ legal fund.  Quoting copyright laws means nothing if you are not willing to HIRE a lawyer in the country where the OFFENDER lives.  Plus even then, cases where small companies go into debt & struggle for years to sue over patent infringement usually end with the same story: The offender just moves across town and starts up again with a new name; hello square one.

DAZ will view this the same way as the credit-card companies handle fraud ... we lose $X per quarter; spending 10 times X to save X doesn't make sense. 

Any of these people who give your work away or sell it, if you spend huge emotional effort to stop them ... they will be doing it again tomorrow as someone else with a new name.  So be diliggent, plug up the holes you can but don't take it personally or let your health suffer.

ok..this is so childish an issue. I do create in SL, and no I dont use anything from Poser to do it!!! So, grow up and dont post, or grow up and challenge those in SL to outdo your work.
Also, the alternative, join SL, create your own works and tell them to kiss creative genuis;)

Oh and one other thought...their are creepy people all over the world, in your neighborhoods...at the schools, in law inforcement..sooooo..define creepy, odd, strange, weird, and by what standards do we use to call them this?

Quote - > Quote - *It dawned on me,  Daz is creating a pipeline to get poser content into video games.

*Here's another proof for that: The new textureconverter 2, released yesterday at DAZ has a second-life plug-in so can convert any  V4, V3,M3 etc. texture into a second-life texture.

best regards,

Bopper.

WE ARE ALL GONNA GET SCREWED ..doesn't matter that is plainly in red wordings says can not convert textures of another person and sell anywhere.. people from SL do not care and are gonna do it anyways. Hell pretty soon all 3D stores will have a SL section or something.

and so in stating that...it seems Daz and Poser are responsible for makingv it easier for peopel to abuse the rules?

As justa artist on the sidelines and not even a creator of models and textures or anything like that my opinion after reading all this as one option since it's all overwhelming/ time consumming/non-profitable and unethical as to the problems at hand would be for creators to beat the copycats at their own game and instead Join SL/IMMU besides Poser community too.
Therefore each would have the jump on any copycat in that each creator would be marketing their OWN products in both versions to sell...making more money themself plus detouring anyone from marketing what is already posted by said creators.
I see it like this...If this has all been going on so long and the Top Stores..DAZ/SL/IMMU haven't stepped up to the plate and protected their selling patrons already in these areas from the getgo it's bound to go on eons more before any and everything is addressed with ironclad laws all around (which is also almost non-existant as long as people are involved making money for whatever reasons) to help the Actual creators in the here and now.  It's all about greed for the most part...always has been and always will be due to a poor immoral world we live in.
Interesting topic.

Quote - As justa artist on the sidelines and not even a creator of models and textures or anything like that my opinion after reading all this as one option since it's all overwhelming/ time consumming/non-profitable and unethical as to the problems at hand would be for creators to beat the copycats at their own game and instead Join SL/IMMU besides Poser community too.
Therefore each would have the jump on any copycat in that each creator would be marketing their OWN products in both versions to sell...making more money themself plus detouring anyone from marketing what is already posted by said creators.
I see it like this...If this has all been going on so long and the Top Stores..DAZ/SL/IMMU haven't stepped up to the plate and protected their selling patrons already in these areas from the getgo it's bound to go on eons more before any and everything is addressed with ironclad laws all around (which is also almost non-existant as long as people are involved making money for whatever reasons) to help the Actual creators in the here and now.  It's all about greed for the most part...always has been and always will be due to a poor immoral world we live in.
Interesting topic.

touche'...and i agree...wonderfully put...

Yep. This seems like the RIAA/MPAA situation. You can sue, spend time tracking down pirates etc., but the cow is out of the barn and shows no sign of being coralled anytime soon. I don't know if embracing the new market will be profitable for everyone but the alternative doesn't sound promising. For those who don't want to do it themselves, perhaps they could partner with someone to do authorized 2nd Life versions of their content. Again, no guarantees of significant profit but as it stands, you got nada plus ulcers besides.

I love the work here and would also have loved to use the textures personally in Second Life, Yeah, I'm one of the sad sikkos without a life that you have spent the last few pages abusing!
Actually, I am one of a group of fundraisers, for Cancer charities, toys for kids (the most recent), Lukemia, you name it, the group has raised thousands of real life dollars, in SL, to aid the charities.

Now, I understand that you are protecting your creations, but, just maybe, there are others like me, non artists who were just overwhelmed at the beauty created here, who did not realise (but do now that they have read the copyrights) that the items given away for free on here could not actually be used anywhere.

I take great exception to your generalisation of SL users, we are NOT all thieves, perverts and brainless fools. Perhaps as has been mentioned, instead of just bashing users as useless morons, someone could try making some good textures, prims and poses for use in SL. There IS money being spent in there, and not all of it is on sex and perversions, believe it or not!

Actually, it's been pointed out time and time again that there's nothing wrong with the average SL user.  It's the extremes that were poked fun at, and the theives that were angered at. 

Listen, every file acquired from this site comes with a readme file.  In all reality, the items here, and elsewhere in the 3D world, have specific uses and for specific programs.  You need to read those.  Just because it's available as a freebie does NOT mean you are allowed to redistribute it.  You do not gain copyright by downloading OR purchasing it.  If the readme does not specificially note SL use (and, face it, few do), it is up to YOU, the one wanting to use it in SL, to contact the creator.  You don't just get to use it at your leisure just because it's on your hard drive.  If readme's became full of "you can't's", they'd be about as long as the warning labels on hair dryers...and, when was the last time you used yours in the shower?

Quote - Actually, it's been pointed out time and time again that there's nothing wrong with the average SL user.  It's the extremes that were poked fun at, and the theives that were angered at.  

If readme's became full of "you can't's", they'd be about as long as the warning labels on hair dryers...and, when was the last time you used yours in the shower?

Erm, reading through the forum posts, the insults are mainly generalised, not just aimed at extremes.
I do understand anyone being angry at thieves, your work is your own property and income too.
I now understand the usages of items bought from here, though as a newbie non artist it took some understanding. Maybe it would make the readme's long and boring, but not everyone knows about copyrights and permissions, they actually do think that any image given or purchased online is free for use anywhere. I know ignorance should not be an excuse, but sometimes, it just is!  I have not uploaded anything to sl without permission, I didn't purchase anything yet and and will not, but still would like someone, somewhere to design a few good textures for use in SL, for purchase of course!

(and no, I don't use my hairdryer in the shower, I'm sure there were once instructions telling me not to unless I wanted curly hair - I was very tempted............)

katierich: I would very much like to get started In SL as a vendor. I do not make textures as of yet but will be doing so soon. I make 3D models and rig them. Any advise help you could offer to get started would be appreciated.

Personally I don't see any difference between the 3D Poser world or the 3D SL world they both have their "Theives" and they both have their decent people. Don't be offended by the finger pointing crowd rendo welcomes There are still plenty of people involved with Poser and D/S who don't put entire sections of the 3D world into the "theif catagory because of the actions of a few.

Cheers,

Mike.

Phantom3D:   Mike, Hi! how refreshing to finally find someone who doesn't think we are all braindead perverts!  I would be delighted to introduce you to the wonders of SL sales. Maybe not via this forum though!

As I previously stated, I am no artist or designer, so I have no idea what it is that you do, (whats rigging?) I'm actually an internet marketer, but I do know my way around SL,  as a resident of 2 years. Probably best to do this via email? contact me on info(at)katie-rich.com if I can be of any help at all.

Thanks katierich, I will certainly be in contact. I don't know much about SL except they use very low poly models with high rez textures, many of my models are probably too high poly for SL but I have a few low poly ones and would find the change of scenery refreshing.

Maybe you can also help me understand what 'poser' and 'poly' actually are too :-) Yes the textures are high rez, did you ever make an account and look at what is in SL? That could be the place to start. Let me know if you do, and I will meet you inworld and show you around what sells.

Anyone else considering breaking into the SL market can contact me at arielyn211@aol.com  My husband and I are successful SL business owners with a lot of expertise there, and I would welcome the opportunity to introduce anyone to the nuances and subtleties of the game.  There's money to be made there folks.  If you question this, check out SLEX and look for 3D content.  I am also looking for someone willing to sell me tree textures (trees on alpha) that I can use on our creations in SL.  No, the textures wouldn't be distributed as textures, but rather they would be applied to a "prim" (building block) that would appear in-world as an actual tree. 

SL gets a bad rap due to the pervs, cynics and general naysayers, not to mention the drama-thirsty media.  I met my hubby there, and together we have built a business that is truly profitable.  I think a few of you here (man, some of you are TALENTED!) could generate a nice income there.

I would just say ignore them trollers or cyber bullys are best ignored it really does ruffle thier feathers if they do not get any feed back from you.

Im not sure what took place even from reading the transcript, but if someone is being rude and ignorant try reporting them first if that does not work just ignore them they will get tired of you and move on to bother somneone else.

And I really do not think Blackhearted would act that way, Just does not seem like he would do something like that, Blackheated as far as I have seen here has acted as a responsible well upstanding person and wondeful artist, I think someone is impersonating him for sure and that they should be prosecuted for it under the full extent of the law.

Best thing to do is report it to the police and try to trap the guy so they can trace his ip address.

I am a Second Life user.  I'm not morally unconscious.  Just because you don't understand Second Life or don't enjoy playing Second Life is no reason to look down your noses at those who do. 

I don't steal content.  I'm here to learn, not steal.  Most players want creative content and are willing to pay for it.   I'm a heavy Second Life end-user and I don't know anyone who rips textures without regard to TOS.  In Second Life, legitimate creators either purchase textures or make their own.

As for models, we are pretty limited by what we can do.  So what makes a Second Life avatar stand out are the skins that lay over the shape (body).  Great skins that don't cost a fortune are limited.  And trying to find a skin for a shape that is not ordinary is nearly impossible.  So that is why I am here.  To learn how to make a skin for my plus size avatar in Second Life.  I'm very surprised that no one has bothered making a decent skin for plus size AVs, let alone clothing.

So rather than speculate what Second Lifers are up to just ask one.  I'm sure they are not as evil as you assume.

Cyber Betty
AKA Lillianna Nikolaidis (Second Life)

:D  Betty

katierich, phantom3d, Arielyn and Cyber Betty, you are all welcome to pop over to my treehouse and have a virual coffee and compare notes. Betty i am learning to make clothes without ripping off any Rendo stuff....and wings/jewellery and stuff as i get time, so if u want to see if we can get your avvie snazzed up let me know. Drop me an Im here or inworld as Boofy Halfpint.

For anyone else who thinks we are all depraved, i dare you to come in world and get past the sex shops, idiots and loons (that also exist here in the galleries by the way) and let us show u how your lovely clothes can move and dance for real, how your model can be your avatar that can walk talk or fire real gout of flame instead of a 2d image one because that is what interests me in SL...and being able to (feel like i can) dance to jaz/rock and roll music which is something I cannot do in RL due to multiple disabilites. if that is weird or depraved then SO WHAT! live with it.

Yayyy!! Good on ya Boofy, I will call over for a virtual coffee. Happy to assist Betty too!

A just my 2 sen here Id love to skinn and model for 2nd life but dont know how it works . I know how to skin and model rather well tho lol  just dont know  to much about 2nd to get started

thanks katierich, come and join us Bobbie25, IM one of us here or in SL, we will look after u...smile. I do wish to say that my comments tho are not to disparich the original thread's intent of uncovering theft and copyright breeches. I am totally against any theft of anyones work and look out for it as i go around. Calling us all names is like other apps calling Rendo's all pin up girl fantasisers.

JenX, on a more practical note...as there seems to be a few Rendo people interested in SL, If anyone wants to check out the nicer parts of SL eg: jazz dancing, nice clothes etc or want to find tutorials/other info feel free to pass on my SL avvies' name of Boofy Halfpint for them to contact me if that doesnt break any rules,  if i dont know the answer i will try to find someone who does. If there are a few i can set up a group for them to be refered to so that people can at least ask questions there if u like,  As for Lindens listening about copyright dont hold your collective breaths...sigh.

Never thought to say, my SL username is Katie Usher, I too am happy to show anyone how things work in SL. Most of the designers I know are willing to assist anyone new and there are multiple  pieces of information to read and learn about the movement of clothes and how to make skin. Don't be shy to contact, we need you!

Hi Boofy,

I've been checking out the SL world for awhile. Right now I'm working on a full body scanner and learning about that, I dont  know if it would be usefull in SL. Perhaps using the scanner in real time for creating body movements  and BVH files could be usefull.

I spent a number of hours in SL and never ran into any offensive people.

Hi katierich, :)

cool stuff guys/gals looking forward to catching up and pooling our knowlege.Blackhearted, machineclaw and the others, feel free to join us if you like, then if you still think SL is a bad place then so be it. 

Blackhearted, i hope hearing a few sane, normal voices of SL has at least given u some relief that not everyone there is a cheat. I formally invite you to a dance at my friends jazz club if you are ever in world to take some of the bitter taste out of your mouth, no strings attached.

Hi Phatom!

How's you? That could be very useful for animations. Another item we need more of.

katierich:  i'm doing ok, my mother passed on last month :( she was 92, so I've been melancholy, dragging my feet around for the last month, but it's time to pull myself up and get moving again.

Ya, with this scanner I can turn out BVH files of complex body movements, I just have to figure out how to translate to Poser (SL) rigging, shouldn't be too hard.

ohh sorry to hear bout your mother Phantom, would love to see what you can do with the scanner

My condolences Phantom, I know how difficult it is to just carry on. The age isn't the issue, it's your mum!

Come back inworld and set up a few textures, I have room at my club for a vendor or two yet.  And, to anyone else here who would like to explore SL, your always welcome at Club Vida :)