Quote - Same here, I cannot use poser stuff with vue period. I've basically given up.  I wont buy stuff sometimes from specific vendors because I know I am going to have to open up every stinking file in ps and resize them all, move the originals, etc, etc.  its a pain.  I rarely do portraits, but I guess that seems to be the trend and the big hot item now a days.

I think the release of RenderStudio and HDRI lights has definitely made an impact on the popularity of portraits - but the quality of the skins coming out is impressive, it's hard to really "fault" someone for wanting to show them off.

But it's still kind of frustrating to have a Poser import that comes in at about 500k polys chew the crap out of a system that can quite cheerfully render an eco of 5+ billion polys without breaking a sweat (and yes, I know it's the texture size, before someone says the polys are irrelevant in context - it's still frustrating!).

Quote - Maybe character vendors can include a low-rez version of skins for non-close ups too?

This is something that just inflates the download size, it's very very easy to reduce image size yourself if it's something you need.

Quote - > Quote - Same here, I cannot use poser stuff with vue period. I've basically given up.  I wont buy stuff sometimes from specific vendors because I know I am going to have to open up every stinking file in ps and resize them all, move the originals, etc, etc.  its a pain.  I rarely do portraits, but I guess that seems to be the trend and the big hot item now a days.

I think the release of RenderStudio and HDRI lights has definitely made an impact on the popularity of portraits - but the quality of the skins coming out is impressive, it's hard to really "fault" someone for wanting to show them off.

But it's still kind of frustrating to have a Poser import that comes in at about 500k polys chew the crap out of a system that can quite cheerfully render an eco of 5+ billion polys without breaking a sweat (and yes, I know it's the texture size, before someone says the polys are irrelevant in context - it's still frustrating!).

I agree, and its still a pain in the ass to have to redo almost every texture for everything you buy, because SKIN isnt the only thing that is coming in with that texture size, its hair, and clothes!

Quote - This is something that just inflates the download size, it's very very easy to reduce image size yourself if it's something you need.

But the flip side is that if it's that easy to do, the reason vendors don't do it themselves would be (in theory) to save a few bytes in the download size ... Does that mean vendors are somehow penalized for larger package sizes that they need to avoid offering it?

I'm a lot more likely to patronize a vendor that offers me a product that requires the least amount of work to make it work, letting me get on with what I want to do - use it :P

Stonemason offered a multi-app version of Tin Pan Alley (Poser, Daz|Studio, Carrera, Vue) - I would be interested to know if that affected their sales.

The thing is, it's not a few bytes, it's a few megabytes ;) it's in everyone's best interests (yours included) if this is NOT assumed to be the default when distributing textures.

Quote - You mean how they sometimes render as a solid black thick unibrow reminiscent of a Snow Crash Brandy's eyebrows?

I thought that was just me trying to use the cheap (read, free) low-rez skin that comes with the base with AO on and underlighting.

Yeah... they sort of remind me of the unibrow of  younger Brooke Shield.

I dont think that offering a group of textures at 1024x1024 is going to add that much to a file, nor do I think it would deter me from downloading it.

Quote - The thing is, it's not a few bytes, it's a few megabytes ;) it's in everyone's best interests (yours included) if this is NOT assumed to be the default when distributing textures.

Not bring a skin vendor, I wasn't aware of how many bytes might be involved, so I'll retract the "a few bytes" comment :)

A serious question though ... how much work is it for vendors to provide a low-rez skin for use in distance/other app works?  Is it an easy enough task that it gives vendors an extra revenue stream, providing that?

I'm trying to get a better idea of why it's not "common", more than anything else.

OMG! What a bunch of Hoo Ha over nothing! Just resize all the images and quit whinging about it! You have the originals still in the installer if you ever need them! Sheesh!

The reason they don't clog up their installs with dual sizes is this. They don't KNOW what your maximum size needs are! So they provide the best sizes and leave it up to you to figure out if you want 512x512, 800x800, 1024,1024 or whatever.

There are enough things eating up network bandwidth these days without clogging the system with unneccesary redundancy when a little work on your part will resize the final product to satisfy your own personal needs. Just think about the server lag we just had for the Halloween freebies. Now triple that for all these extra redundant textures you're crying about.

Here. Have some cheese!

Quote - OMG! What a bunch of Hoo Ha over nothing! Just resize all the images and quit whinging about it! You have the originals still in the installer if you ever need them! Sheesh!

The reason they don't clog up their installs with dual sizes is this. They don't KNOW what your maximum size needs are! So they provide the best sizes and leave it up to you to figure out if you want 512x512, 800x800, 1024,1024 or whatever.

There are enough things eating up network bandwidth these days without clogging the system with unneccesary redundancy when a little work on your part will resize the final product to satisfy your own personal needs. Just think about the server lag we just had for the Halloween freebies. Now triple that for all these extra redundant textures you're crying about.

Here. Have some cheese!

thank you, but its not only the size that we are complaining about, its the fact, if you would read up further instead of going on your tangent, that there are 6 texture plates.  do the math.  For those of us that dont have major computers, having to resize characters, clothes, props, etc. gets to be rather time consuming when you sometimes pay 20 bucks for things.  So if I want to whine, I will, thank you!

Well again, that is six more texture files that MAY be the resolution you might want for a specific task, but then you have another situation where you realize that they aren't appropriate - should the vendor include a third set of textures at a middle resolution?  four or five?  and these fix files add up to a few megs each file? what if all the models you owned were fluffed up by 10 or 20 megabytes in texture file size, each?

The larger point, though, is -- again -- SIX texture plates? Honestly, isnt it all getting just a tad excessive? Yes, it's easy enough to rescale them down (and frankly anyone who does a 4000x4000 of toenails has more psychological problems than I care to think about), but we just keep getting more and more and more things with each new generation.

Dont misunderstand: I've only worked with the base model, and I'm finding all kinds of neat things about it, enough to suggest buying the morphs package as well. But the texturing (or, I suppose, the UV mapping) doesnt appear very efficient.

I read the whole thread and it started out as a fun light hearted poke at M4 and ended up with a bunch of silly whines about nonsense. It's silliness like this that gives the Poser Community a bad rap for Make Art Buttons!

"OMG I have to work with a product to get it to do what I want it to do! The vendors are so bloody evil! Why can't they hand it all to me on a silver platter with a cherry on top?"

You complain that there are 6 large maps and that means it's too much work for you to do to resize them. Did you even listen to the whining going on when the server was so clogged up here that the forums started giving SQL errors because of all the freebie downloading just two days ago?

I could care less if you whine but do it in a thread that wasn't started in a light hearted manner to cheer people up so It can be avoided!

Quote - Dont misunderstand: I've only worked with the base model, and I'm finding all kinds of neat things about it, enough to suggest buying the morphs package as well. But the texturing (or, I suppose, the UV mapping) doesnt appear very efficient.

It has pluses and minuses in a technical sense - for example if you are working with a render where only the torso is going to be rendered, you could choose to not load those other maps.  It is harder to work with for the texture artist, because of all the additional seams, but the concept does have some technical merit ^_^

>> You complain that there are 6 large maps and that means it's too much work for you to do to resize them.

That wasnt my point, idiot. READ AND LEARN.

Resizing is easy. It's the ever-increasing number of textures required that I dont understand.

Some of us like creating textures on our own. But we've gone from 2 plates to 4 to now 6 -- for no real reason than, from what I can tell, sloppy UV work that spreads things all over the place, thus making texture match up tougher, even with seam guides.

Screw the re-sizing. This is SLIGHTLY more involved than just that. 

Quote - > Quote - Dont misunderstand: I've only worked with the base model, and I'm finding all kinds of neat things about it, enough to suggest buying the morphs package as well. But the texturing (or, I suppose, the UV mapping) doesnt appear very efficient.

It has pluses and minuses in a technical sense - for example if you are working with a render where only the torso is going to be rendered, you could choose to not load those other maps.  It is harder to work with for the texture artist, because of all the additional seams, but the concept does have some technical merit ^_^

Now, there, see? A perfectly polite answer that addresses the issue. Thank you, sir. Yes, it makes sense.

I will say that I agree with you, that I don't really care for it and that it's far too complex for somebody working with traditional 2D texturing methods to make a texture for this UV setup - you practically have to get into a 3D projection painting texturing app to make a good texture for him, imo.

Quote - >> You complain that there are 6 large maps and that means it's too much work for you to do to resize them.

That wasnt my point, idiot. READ AND LEARN.

Resizing is easy. It's the ever-increasing number of textures required that I dont understand.

Some of us like creating textures on our own. But we've gone from 2 plates to 4 to now 6 -- for no real reason than, from what I can tell, sloppy UV work that spreads things all over the place, thus making texture match up tougher, even with seam guides.

Screw the re-sizing. This is SLIGHTLY more involved than just that. 

Woah Sean, back up that hobby horse! I wasn't responding to you so knock off the name calling! If you had been reading the thread as it was going I was responding to Lzy dude above you. That being said, I'm outta here. I can see it's that time of year in the forums again and I have better things to do with my time than get dragged down by this nonsense!

Quote - > Quote - >> You complain that there are 6 large maps and that means it's too much work for you to do to resize them.

That wasnt my point, idiot. READ AND LEARN.

Resizing is easy. It's the ever-increasing number of textures required that I dont understand.

Some of us like creating textures on our own. But we've gone from 2 plates to 4 to now 6 -- for no real reason than, from what I can tell, sloppy UV work that spreads things all over the place, thus making texture match up tougher, even with seam guides.

Screw the re-sizing. This is SLIGHTLY more involved than just that. 

Woah Sean, back up that hobby horse! I wasn't responding to you so knock off the name calling! If you had been reading the thread as it was going I was responding to Lzy dude above you. That being said, I'm outta here. I can see it's that time of year in the forums again and I have better things to do with my time than get dragged down by this nonsense!

I am not a dude, I am a lady, and I didnt go off on you, you went off on me.  I was simply replying to the person above me and agreeing. You didnt like it and snapped at me, which I didnt appreciate at all.   No wonder people truly hate this place.  Because god forbid you post an opinion about anything. 

obligatory cat picture...

"figure is anatomically incorrect"  Hmm....he might be correct as shipped if he'd been through a divorce.  All that's usually left is the underwear and scar tissue. ;-}

I like him. I'm not fussy. I can finally replace M3!!!

I've been waiting a very long time for him to come out.

Just be lucky you have a new toy play with.

Why gripe? Its only a model.

IMHO M4 was over hyped, the genitalia subject is a joke in its self.
As for a base figure I will still use M3 and Apollo.  The model seems solid but I have not played with it enough due to I cannot stand to look at its default texture or it as a textureless figure. I might use him more if i can find a decent texture to use instead of the default.

OT - How about a 1/2 size texture set for 1/2 price?  :)

It would be neat to have a two tier system of lo-res at lo-price for the 'have nots' and full price full res for the rich power users.... just a fantasy.

Often when I open the textures to re-size them is apparent that they have been scaled up100% or more by the vendor! From a JPG!

Quote -

Quote - M4 Genitals power load....er?
..........................................Kitty runs off giggling  genitals power loader............. weeeee.....

Sorry, it had to be done :P

I heard that M4 was modelled after a real person, a guy nmed Jeremy.

kitty fanning herself again  power loader.................. weeeee

Quote - I dont think that offering a group of textures at 1024x1024 is going to add that much to a file, nor do I think it would deter me from downloading it.

Texture packs are often loaded to the hilt. Renderosity has 70MEG size limit. Adding low rez set of maps would often mean having to provide one less texture in the package.
Also it adds to the work a vendor has to do, because  second set of material collections and poses needs to be created.
Most vendors already put more time and effort in the product then the money they can recover for it, so at some point they have to draw the line at trying to accomodate all possible users.

AFAIK, most vendors are under the impression that most poser users are interested in higer quality, higher res. textures.

I guess I do not mind the shorts, you can get rid of them if you need to/want to. I also like that he comes with a really nice texture - better than the poorly colored base figures of the past.
It is also cool that the base character texture, well, has texture - body hair, 4:00 shadow, etc. I say, well done!

Quote - OT - How about a 1/2 size texture set for 1/2 price?  :)

It would be neat to have a two tier system of lo-res at lo-price for the 'have nots' and full price full res for the rich power users.... just a fantasy.

Often when I open the textures to re-size them is apparent that they have been scaled up100% or more by the vendor! From a JPG!

I doubt that they've been scaled up, in most cases... Many times one has to save jpg's at lower quality just to make them fit in the 70MEG.  I think some people overdo it.

I considered providing low-rez texture pack to buyers as a bonus, but rendo no longer allows mention of a bonus on the promos.  Selling them at 1/2 price, I probably wouldn't go for that, because providing them causes more work, not less, and I'm not confident it would result in more sales.

"1.  He stole everything from Apollo Max, including the concept of a male figure with two arms, two legs and a head, so he sucks!"

I love it when people get misquoted, basically it was suggested that M4 is an almost exact copy of Apollo Max, no mention of sucking involved at all.

Quote - The thing is, it's not a few bytes, it's a few megabytes ;) it's in everyone's best interests (yours included) if this is NOT assumed to be the default when distributing textures.[/quote
What's in everyone's best interests is that work is not distributed, but done at the source.  So, the creators make the RR textures, and put a link on the download page and people can choose to download or not.  So, your requirements, and his, are met.

Whew!  I gotta go lie down.  That took at least two brain cells.

Ok, so I shouldn't be so snarky, but really, does anyone think your post explains why vendors don't make RR textures?  I sure don't.