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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Nov 18 10:25 pm)



Subject: Artistic "Lens"


bagginsbill ( ) posted Wed, 29 October 2008 at 6:16 PM · edited Tue, 19 November 2024 at 10:52 AM

file_416652.jpg

For your amusement, my latest Poser shader trick.

This is stock M4 and a couple of primitive props. I didn't touch anything on M4 - this is with his out-of-the-box materials.

The right side is looking through a new prop I have devised. I call it the Artistic "Lens".

The pattern doesn't look right reduced, so click for full size.


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JenX ( ) posted Wed, 29 October 2008 at 6:20 PM

That's pretty neat :) 

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hborre ( ) posted Wed, 29 October 2008 at 8:12 PM

Somewhat of a news print quality.


momodot ( ) posted Wed, 29 October 2008 at 8:45 PM

Cool. Please tell more.  Can it do a "hand drawn" look? I wonder if it can do stuff like over or under saturate?



bagginsbill ( ) posted Wed, 29 October 2008 at 9:35 PM

file_416663.jpg

There are tons of things you can do. I've only just started exploring it.

Here is monochrome - precisely (mathematically) the way old TV's did black and white. Not the same as desaturated, but better. (I can do desat as well, but it's not as good.)


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bagginsbill ( ) posted Wed, 29 October 2008 at 9:36 PM

file_416664.jpg

B&W with extra contrast.


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bagginsbill ( ) posted Wed, 29 October 2008 at 9:36 PM

file_416665.jpg

Slightly over saturated.


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bagginsbill ( ) posted Wed, 29 October 2008 at 9:36 PM

file_416666.jpg

Way oversaturated.


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bagginsbill ( ) posted Wed, 29 October 2008 at 9:36 PM

file_416667.jpg

Stark.


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bagginsbill ( ) posted Wed, 29 October 2008 at 9:37 PM

file_416668.jpg

B&W TV complete with scan lines and blue tint.


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bagginsbill ( ) posted Wed, 29 October 2008 at 9:37 PM

file_416669.jpg

No name. Deconstructed? Color Dissolve?


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bagginsbill ( ) posted Wed, 29 October 2008 at 9:45 PM

file_416670.jpg

Monochrome noise.


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bagginsbill ( ) posted Wed, 29 October 2008 at 9:49 PM

file_416671.jpg

Distortion.


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bagginsbill ( ) posted Wed, 29 October 2008 at 9:56 PM

file_416672.jpg

Fibers?


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bagginsbill ( ) posted Wed, 29 October 2008 at 10:06 PM

file_416673.jpg

Scary.


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replicand ( ) posted Thu, 30 October 2008 at 12:26 AM

 so how does it work?


R_Hatch ( ) posted Thu, 30 October 2008 at 1:36 AM

Dangit, I meant to do a tutorial on this stuff a long time ago and forgot. Fortunately, BB is much better at tutorials than I am :)


Latexluv ( ) posted Thu, 30 October 2008 at 3:13 AM

Awesome effects! Might be interested in the B&W one. How'd you do it?

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EnglishBob ( ) posted Thu, 30 October 2008 at 6:41 AM

I want one. :-) 


nyguy ( ) posted Thu, 30 October 2008 at 6:44 AM

Quote - No name. Deconstructed? Color Dissolve?

Looks more "Matrix" like

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pakled ( ) posted Thu, 30 October 2008 at 7:30 AM

looks like filters from the Gimp or probably Photoshop. Interesting effect.

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odf ( ) posted Thu, 30 October 2008 at 7:54 AM

That's really cool stuff. How are you doing it?

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bagginsbill ( ) posted Thu, 30 October 2008 at 8:27 AM

The basic setup is very simple.

Load a one-sided square. Scale it up so it is like a screen hanging in front of your whole scene, between the camera and the subject. This is your "lens". You cannot see the scene directly anymore, only through the lens.

Set the square properties to no shadow, and not visible in raytracing.

Go into the material room for the lens (the square).

Set Diffuse_Value=0, Specular_Value = 0.

Add a Refract node and plug it into Alternate_Diffuse. (Or if you prefer, use one of the two-knob channels such as Ambient or Refraction. With such channels, you can have separate controls (and potentially nodes) on the color and the brightness.)

Set the Refract IOR = 1.0.

At this point you can render and your original scene should appear unchanged. You have a neutral lens. Save this in your library for future use as a starter.

Then you go from there playing with the effects.

For example, put an HSV node between the Refract and the root node. Now you can adjust hue, saturation, and brightness for the entire scene. Not only does this simple setup give you many artistic options, but you can also adjust your LIGHT LEVELS all from this one place: HSV.Level.

After you get the hang of that you can start doing more tricky stuff between the Refract node and the root node.


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ice-boy ( ) posted Thu, 30 October 2008 at 8:30 AM

i think this is fantastic and can make very artistic renders.

but photoshop is more handy. of course if we dont have photoshop then this is the way to go.


momodot ( ) posted Thu, 30 October 2008 at 8:31 AM

Wow! Very nice. The black and white w/contrast boost looks great. I linke the TV and Fiber and the rest too. Very curious.



bagginsbill ( ) posted Thu, 30 October 2008 at 8:42 AM

file_416710.jpg

You can also perform the same operation as post-work gamma correction.

Here's the setup.

Of course, you really should anti-gamma correct all your incoming colors to get this to work really well. Otherwise, it may look washed out.

If you're not going to anti-gamma correct all your incoming material, you can try decreasing the amount of gamma correction. I used 2.2 here in the Math:Div node - try lower numbers like 1.5.


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bagginsbill ( ) posted Thu, 30 October 2008 at 8:48 AM · edited Thu, 30 October 2008 at 8:50 AM

file_416711.jpg

Here's a workaround.

I inserted an HSV node between the Refract and the gamma correction. Using that I pre-saturate the image and then gamma correct using 1.5 instead of 2.2.

This brings back a lot of the tones that get lost from using bad incoming material with GC.

And, yes, you can do these same effects in post-work. However, I like this better, because:

1) I don't like the extra step of postwork
2) I can see the true final outcome immediately, and can make adjustments in place without having to guess how that will look after I post-work.
3) If I am making an animation, the effects are already done for every frame. Postworking a movie is a lot harder than postworking a still image.


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bagginsbill ( ) posted Thu, 30 October 2008 at 8:59 AM

file_416712.jpg

Check this out. Many Poser users say they just don't know how to get good lighting. It's not the lighting, folks, it's your monitor. You *must* tone-map the image for your monitor.

Here's a render with just a single infinite light at 55%.

Most people would immediately start adding more lights or increase this light's intensity. That's not the problem. There is plenty of light.


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bagginsbill ( ) posted Thu, 30 October 2008 at 9:00 AM

file_416713.jpg

Here is the render with the setup in the post above with GC = 1.5 and the Saturation=1.5.

The realism is much better than you'd get if you just blasted more light at it.


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ice-boy ( ) posted Thu, 30 October 2008 at 9:03 AM

this gamma correction setup is very interesting. this is better then in photoshop. because there you lose a lot of detail.


ice-boy ( ) posted Thu, 30 October 2008 at 9:05 AM

Quote - Check this out. Many Poser users say they just don't know how to get good lighting. It's not the lighting, folks, it's your monitor. You must tone-map the image for your monitor.

Here's a render with just a single infinite light at 55%.

Most people would immediately start adding more lights or increase this light's intensity. That's not the problem. There is plenty of light.

they dont listen. htey just dont read.

i sitll see the classic poser renders with the 3 times over bright lighting.


momodot ( ) posted Thu, 30 October 2008 at 10:33 AM

The Gamma stuff is PoserPro? I'll check my P7.

Do you have advise for setting up the LCD on a laptop without calibration hardware or is expecting a descent display on a laptop unrealistic. I tried pulling out my old c.2002 color monitor and plugging the laptop into it but the color seemed really off, it was much darker and warmer than my laptop and fuzzy and blinky, so I gave up on that idea.

I am not the brightest... would you show a screen capture of the set-up for the fiber effect?



bagginsbill ( ) posted Thu, 30 October 2008 at 10:41 AM

Quote - The Gamma stuff is PoserPro? I'll check my P7.
... would you show a screen capture of the set-up for the fiber effect?

PoserPro is not needed for this lens. The GC lens I showed will work all the way back to Poser 5.

I'll post the fiber effect in a minute.


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bagginsbill ( ) posted Thu, 30 October 2008 at 10:44 AM

Oh I forgot the question about calibration.

Laptops displays (both the video card and the actual screen) are usually crap, I think. I've tried calibrating both my laptops to produce consistent looks with my desktop and I can't.

Since I'm on the road almost all the time now, most of my thread posted renders are from my laptop. Quite often I get home and look at my own posts and I'm shocked at what I posted.

My laptop is dark and muddy, so I overexpose a lot of my renders lately.


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bagginsbill ( ) posted Thu, 30 October 2008 at 10:48 AM

file_416716.jpg

Here is the node setup for the fiber effect. Pretty simple.

Play with the numbers to see how you can alter the outcome.


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bagginsbill ( ) posted Thu, 30 October 2008 at 10:57 AM · edited Thu, 30 October 2008 at 10:58 AM

file_416718.jpg

Here's the node setup for the black-and-white TV with scanlines.

The green color is RGB 77, 149, 28. These add up to 255. Those represent the RGB ratios originally used to map real-life color onto a monochrome tv image.

The Math:Cosine node is doing the lines. Then I have to adjust them to make them positive and produce the correct contour.

The frequency of the lines is that number 1500. Bigger numbers produce more lines. Be careful - you can get interference patterns if the lines start to approach the size of your actual pixels. To make really fine lines, you'll have to increase your render quality quite a bit. You'll want to use smaller Min Shading Rate, and larger Pixel Samples.

I also added some small amount of blue tint to the results - this is in the color setting of the Alternate_Diffuse channel.


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momodot ( ) posted Thu, 30 October 2008 at 11:04 AM

Very helpful. Thank you. Esp, re. RGB 77, 149, 28.



Realmling ( ) posted Thu, 30 October 2008 at 11:39 AM

I'm so glad I came to Rosity today and browsed around....this will greatly help a render I've been working on and just can't get to look "right" with the lighting adjustments I've done a million times.

Many thanks BB!

Crazy alien chick FTW! (yeah....right....)

Realm of Savage - Poser goodies and so much more!


~~


Miss Nancy ( ) posted Thu, 30 October 2008 at 4:05 PM

bill, it's very ingenious IMVHO.  I haven't seen this before.

one question - if the figure has got a poser 7.x toon shader applied to its body,
can your lens be adjusted so that it has the effect of adding an edge-blend node
over the toon shader? 

the reason I ask is that this might allow one to combine an edge blend (fall-off shader)
layer over the toon shader (sans lines) to get better-looking line work in poser, without
having to export the raw toon shader render and edge-blend renders to photoshop and
combining them there , with the edge-blend render as multiplying layer over said toon layer.



bagginsbill ( ) posted Thu, 30 October 2008 at 5:13 PM

Nope, can't be done.

The lens is like a screen within a screen. You're viewing a picture of what is on that screen. The only information it has to work with is what color is on the screen, and then it gets to modify what that color is.

Any thing like edge detection, blurring, etc. requires that you be able to examine more than one point in the scene. But the lens shader only gets data from one point at a time.

Worse, I have no access to anything but the color of the scene element behind the screen. I can't ask how far away it is, or what direction it is facing, or anything like that. If I could, there are many interesting effects I could do, not just with this lens but with translucent/transparent materials in general. Even better, if I could launch multiple rays of my own, in any direction I wnat, I could implement true subsurface scattering.

The issue of toon lines has come up many times. Even if I could access the edge-blend information of what is behind the screen, it wouldn't help much. I can put a shader directly on the prop and still not do a good job with toon lines. If you could, you'd see better toon shaders already.


Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)


Realmling ( ) posted Thu, 30 October 2008 at 7:12 PM

file_416745.jpg

This worked wonders! You can actually see the features on the face now (I fiddled with lighting for a full day trying to get it to look right...and was about ready to give up on this image) I think I'll be using this for all my renders now...more addicting than chocolate. ^_~

Though I'm wondering if I need to make any adjustments to my normal render settings? I have one infinite light (white) set to raytraced shadows, and my simple color-based IBL. (can post those too if needed)

Crazy alien chick FTW! (yeah....right....)

Realm of Savage - Poser goodies and so much more!


~~


dorkmcgork ( ) posted Thu, 30 October 2008 at 8:41 PM

neato i am trying it now

go that way really fast.
if something gets in your way
turn


stonemason ( ) posted Thu, 30 October 2008 at 9:51 PM

hey baggins...can you work with single color channels this way?...say for a faked chromatic aberration effect(by scaling up one of the channels a couple pixels),maybe some vignetting and fish eye lens also

..calling it "Lens" has me thinking of camera stuff :)

Cg Society Portfolio


bagginsbill ( ) posted Thu, 30 October 2008 at 10:04 PM

Quote - This worked wonders! You can actually see the features on the face now (I fiddled with lighting for a full day trying to get it to look right...and was about ready to give up on this image) I think I'll be using this for all my renders now...more addicting than chocolate. ^_~

Though I'm wondering if I need to make any adjustments to my normal render settings? I have one infinite light (white) set to raytraced shadows, and my simple color-based IBL. (can post those too if needed)

Hey that really helped, eh? The face is more clearly defined and the hair is just wow in the after picture. That black skin with only some specular is exactly why you need GC. If you added enough light to bring that out, you'd blow out the hair.

I don't think you need to change any settings. Those are good everyday settings. for 90% of all images they work great. You're using RT shadows and simple lighting, one infinite and one IBL.


Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)


bagginsbill ( ) posted Thu, 30 October 2008 at 10:11 PM

Quote - hey baggins...can you work with single color channels this way?...say for a faked chromatic aberration effect(by scaling up one of the channels a couple pixels),maybe some vignetting and fish eye lens also

..calling it "Lens" has me thinking of camera stuff :)

Hmmm. Chromatic aberration, not with one lens because it only gets to look at one point at a time. CA is a kind of blur and that means integrating data from multiple points in space. I'll have to think about whether or not there is some trick I can do with multiple lenses.

Vignetting and fish eye could be done quite easily.

Remind me over the weekend. I'll look into it. I'll be travelling all day tomorrow (actually sailing) and I'll forget.


Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)


Realmling ( ) posted Wed, 05 November 2008 at 3:31 PM

Question - how can you use the lens and still keep more of a "shiny" specular look on certain things? Something added to the alt specular channel on various materials for the figures and such?

The look I got for the full render of the face I posted earlier (Gallery link - there's nakedness too..so don't say I didn't warn ya) was great, and I personally liked how it turned out....just had a thought on like hair highlights and similar such items for future renders.

Don't mind experimenting on my own...just sometimes it's nice to have a jumping off point.

Crazy alien chick FTW! (yeah....right....)

Realm of Savage - Poser goodies and so much more!


~~


jefsview ( ) posted Wed, 03 December 2008 at 12:56 PM

So many great and innovative ideas... THANKS!

-- Jeff


Winterclaw ( ) posted Wed, 03 December 2008 at 5:19 PM

Tried it out earlier.  Looks nice, but it has some problems with colored lights and you need to do a bit of tweaking and fine tuning if you want to use a background picture...  you have to put it in the refraction node to see it and then you've got to tweak the lens and the node to get it lined up right.

WARK!

Thus Spoketh Winterclaw: a blog about a Winterclaw who speaks from time to time.

 

(using Poser Pro 2014 SR3, on 64 bit Win 7, poser units are inches.)


bagginsbill ( ) posted Wed, 03 December 2008 at 5:59 PM

I prefer to put background images on a one-sided square. That way they're real and can be seen by reflections and refractions. When you use the Poser "Background" for the background image, it's like that's what is printed on your "paper" before the render is drawn on it, which has many drawbacks.

What's the issue with colored lights?


Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)


Winterclaw ( ) posted Wed, 03 December 2008 at 6:14 PM

file_419161.jpg

Yeah, I'm probably going to have to do that with the backgrounds in the future if I plan to keep using gamma correction.

I had a few blue lights and the shadows became redish.  So I'd almost need to make them white and then colorize things with the HSV filter you were talking about.  I haven't had too much time to go back and tweak things yet as I only did a quick render.  I also noticed what you said about a scene having too muc lights; when adding the filter to the last image I put in my gallery and not doing anything else, the difference was huge.

WARK!

Thus Spoketh Winterclaw: a blog about a Winterclaw who speaks from time to time.

 

(using Poser Pro 2014 SR3, on 64 bit Win 7, poser units are inches.)


operaguy ( ) posted Wed, 03 December 2008 at 6:25 PM

My champion workflow for B&W right now is to render out of PoserPro openEXR format. Create an Action in Photoshop to adjust the Exposure/Offset/Gamma and Channel Mixer Red/Green/Blue->Monochrome and then set the mode back to 8-bit.

Apply Action to the image sequence folder through PS Automation.

The power of adjusting an openEXR image in 32-bit mode is wonderful.

::::: Opera :::::


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