Alright guys and gals...without anti "anyone" i am going to try to honestly get you folks to go WOW...Yes it is a price hike...the economy sucks really today. World Economy anyway,not local weird for me. I am in several places a year and everyone seems to be eating and drinking and making babies just dandy(; Price hike is odd, expecially in lieu of like the kick ass movies that have been made with Vue the last year plus. Are they going EGO like all the French ? Or are they just worried about the Pirates ? I dunno...but seriously...who isnt going to cash in there welfare/pension/retard/cannot move for one thing or another checks to go buy it ?!? SHIT FOLKS...MY FRIENDS...C'MON. it is Vue lezzies and germanmen...we will buy. There is nothing else better, so please spare me the typing each and every night i have to be banned and denied and just realise we are all here for our artsy-fartsy bull stinkie and know we will and must have it:D

I for one love us all :D

-Paul Trepanier

Autodesk won't buy out E-On unless Vue's retail price is higher to make it seem more professional. 

Shonner, At first I LOL but that's not such a crazy idea.

The minute E-On makes it big time, Autodesk will make them an offer.  Just look at Softimage the other day.

A bit late to this party, but I think the extra $ will be support for an external renderers ie. Vray and so on, may be included! kinda like the way you can buy a cut down version for Truespace for $300.

Quote - Just look at Softimage the other day.

I completely missed that. Autodesk now have Maya and XSI!? I feel sick.

When Adobe acquired Macromedia it dumped Freehand in favour of it own inferior Illustrator, slowed innovation and raised prices. There are a lot of unhappy people out there. There's also no real competition. Graphics wise, Corel are a shadow of their formers selves so PhotoShop's safe and Microsoft's Expression Web is two versions away from challenging DreamWeaver as it is now.

Is Autodesk the Adobe of the 3D world? Rationalistion of its product line cannot be more than a year away. The costs of maintaining software with overlapping functionality must be unbearable in the long term especially given the current economic climate.

If, and it is an if, Autodesk acquire E-On what happens to the non-professional offerings? Goodbye Pioneer, Esprit, Pro and Complete?

I'd love to see Cinema 4D, Poser and Vue all under one ownership. Now that's a combination that could at least begin to challenge AutoDesk. Having SketchUp and zBrush in the mix would be nice but that's a little too unrealistic. :-)

There's nothing us mere customers can do but watch what happens.

Maybe Microsoft will buy DAZ3D once it realizes that trueSpace isn't all that popular no matter what free price they charge for it?  Microsoft can grab modo or Poser Pro as needed, also.

Doesn't matter to me what it has or doesn't have, I've got both barrels aimed at
Vue 7 Complete!!!   ;^D

Quote -
If, and it is an if, Autodesk acquire E-On what happens to the non-professional offerings? Goodbye Pioneer, Esprit, Pro and Complete?

You can bet that the first move will be to kill ALL non-pro versions (XSI Foundation has been immediately terminated) so, if you want to render external scenes, your last (reasonably priced) option would be Carrara Pro, or, maybe, Kerkythea.

I am quite doubtful about the possibility of our hobby remaining alive in the future; high end tools are every day becoming higher end and there are almost no alternatives on the low side, the thing that could save all of us (Blender) is in the hands of penguinbans (a word I coined, it is the merging of penguinistas and talibans...) who pride themselves at locking its functionalities within a deliberately user hostile interface.

Perhaps we all should start reading digital photography magazines (I have started doing so...).

Bye :sad:

Penguinbans: ROFL.

Whilst I'm pessimistic about Vue's possible fate, the 3D market still has some remarkably powerful tools available for the non-pro on a domestic budget.

You mentioned Carrara Pro: OK it's quirky but it can produce excellent reults. Daz3D alone supply powerful tools, for at times, daft prices: Hexagon is easy (relatively) to get into, Bryce, whilst a little stunted in its growth, produces nice stuff and DAZ Studio might not be Poser but the price is right.

Smith Micro with their eclectic product portfolio haven't destroyed Poser though it might have hit a development dead end.

SketchUp is free albeit with no export features but cheap (circa 120 GBP) third party rendering add ons are available with quality improving with each release.

A couple of months ago I too realised that, compared to 3D, digital photography is not such an expensive hobby and promptly subscribed to the UK mag PhotoPlus for Canon Users. The cost of an Infinite upgrade good for maybe 3 years of use would get me a good Canon lens to last for 10+.

Some whistleblowers have leaked a video about the meeting in which Autodesk top brass decided to buy Softimage; you can find it here. Though this is not an immediate danger for Vue, it is always of the utmost importance to know as much as possible about possible future dangers.

Bye!!!

Quote - Some whistleblowers have leaked a video about the meeting in which Autodesk top brass decided to buy Softimage

:lol:

Quote - Some whistleblowers have leaked a video about the meeting in which Autodesk top brass decided to buy Softimage; you can find it here. Though this is not an immediate danger for Vue, it is always of the utmost importance to know as much as possible about possible future dangers.

Bye!!!

Hillarious video.  Given all the negative backlash by the Softimage base, one would naturally think that Autodesk would need to step in and do something.  However, where are these users going to go?  Autodesk already owns the rest of the market.

Wait a second Chicken Littles!

Before starting unfounded rumors about the ultimate assimilation and demise of our favorite 3D app to Autodesk, let's take a minute and think.

It currently makes little sense for Autodesk or anyone else to purchase Vue as is, because of the pipeline issues. Vue needs to be able to use plugins and 3rd party renderers-- which it doesn't. Also, it's mostly impossible to export Vue object files into other applications-- as they don't manage objects the same ways. Of course, xStream does offer compositing solutions, but at Vue's current rendertimes, I'm not so sure it's all that attractive to someone like Autodesk. Much better for matte painters.

Besides, they (Autodesk) have their hands full right now with SI.

Now on to the new Pioneer product line. Not sure if anyone saw it, but from what I read, the cool thing is you can upgrade from Pioneer all the way to Vue7 Complete-- either all at once, or module by module. And I suspect, the 'issues' which plague an Esprit to Pro upgrade shouldn't be 'issues' anymore, as I would assume designing such an architecture would have the developers working out the migration tools/plugins in a much smarter way.

So, if you don't have the money to upgrade to Complete right off the bat, you can probably 'upgrade' to Esprit or Pioneer and then buy modules you need/want now, then wait later for your next paycheck to buy the rest!

I imagine they'll also have a sidegrade offer for Vue Infinite users to Complete as well-- which I suspect wouldn't cost too much either. So, before we get all upset regarding pricing, perhaps we should wait and see what the upgrade / sidegrade / downgrade prices will be? Just a thought.

Frankly, I think this 'modules upgrade path'  is a very smart way to do things.

Newtek could buy Vue.  It wouldn't care what condition it's in.

Quote - Newtek could buy Vue.  It wouldn't care what condition it's in.

Newtek's a privately owned company which is struggling to keep pace with the bigger and more affluent 3D apps like Maya and Max, and certainly doesn't have the resources to plunk down major change for a product line like Vue.

Their headquarters is not far from my house. I know the president. While they have a great product, and one which competes well with the big guys, they aren't in a position to even consider such a purchase.

What is the obsession with finding a suitor for e-on? Just wondering...

It will happen.  Maybe Vue will be recession-proof.  We'll see.  I know you're trying to make money with Vue.  Maybe Vue would be worth more to other companies if it had plugins.  We'll know more after the first quarter results of Vue 7's sales.

Quote - It will happen.  Maybe Vue will be recession-proof.  We'll see.  I know you're trying to make money with Vue.  Maybe Vue would be worth more to other companies if it had plugins.  We'll know more after the first quarter results of Vue 7's sales.

How silly to be so sure of something without having facts to back it up. Not sure what your point about 'make money with Vue' is supposed to be-- but it seems out of place in this discussion. 

e-on software is a privately held company, and as such does not disclose it's sales nor profit and loss-- something you might know had you the slightest penchant for checking for facts.

The questions in my mind are
 - how likely is that E-On will be bought?
 - and by whom?

Over the last two versions of Vue, there's no doubt E-On targeted the professional market. IMO It's highly likely they're making themselves more attractive to possible buyers.

Given AutoDesk's current acquisitive mood, E-On are a prime target as Vue's feature set complements AutoDesk's current portfolio: AutoCAD the CAD software, three top 3D apps 3DS, Maya and XSi and other complementary software. Most noticeably in the last category is Stitcher, acquired during the taken over of RealViz, a French company, in May 2008.

Irrespective of the above, E-On have a lot to deliver with Vue 7. Especially given the increased pricing.

Hey, people, what's gotten into you? What's all the fuss about e-on being bought? Read anything,  anywhere? Thought not.

Quote - How silly to be so sure of something without having facts to back it up. Not sure what your point about 'make money with Vue' is supposed to be-- but it seems out of place in this discussion. 

e-on software is a privately held company, and as such does not disclose it's sales nor profit and loss-- something you might know had you the slightest penchant for checking for facts.

I thought it would be interesting to see how you would respond if I kept pushing the issue of Vue getting bought.  And you walked right in and revealed your character for me.  Thank you for playing.

Quote - I thought it would be interesting to see how you would respond if I kept pushing the issue of Vue getting bought.  And you walked right in and revealed your character for me.  Thank you for playing.

....that's called 'trolling' and you have now publically revealed yourself as one. Good luck on being taken serious again.

When someone continually posts made up scenario others reveal their true face?  Seems to me they revealed they had a clue and knew something of what was going on.  Meanwhile you are now trying to cover up a lack there of through bluster on top of your ill informed posts.

Quote - When someone continually posts made up scenario others reveal their true face?  Seems to me they revealed they had a clue and knew something of what was going on.  Meanwhile you are now trying to cover up a lack there of through bluster on top of your ill informed posts.

Many years ago, an italian cartoon character, Cattivik, in a strip dropped on the world this fundamental quote:

"La fortuna e' cieca, la sfiga ci vede benissimo"

which roughly translated mean "Luck is blind,  bad luck sees VERY well".

I think this is one of the most profound meditations ever conceived on human condition, on par of the works of the most renowned philosphers of history. Thinking about worst cases and planning possible contingency plans is called preparedness, not being "ill informed" or, as you are hinting, cowardly anonymous rumor spreading, may be for unspeakable dark purposes.

B.t.w., english has a more compact but less phylosophical "Sh**t happens".

No "Bye!!!" this time...

Alexcoppo or an alternative and shorter response I could have posted When in a Hole Stop Digging.

Quite frankly if I had to "worry" about anything(using worry loosely) I'd be more concerned at this point as to what the future holds for Poser & IF they went belly up.  Do you think EON would move over to D|S support & hook up with Daz rather than the ever changing companies holding Poser?  I know you can already import via .obj from D|S, but the same as we have now from Poser - simple posing inside inside Vue/ability to use shaders etc etc.

D|S appears to moving fast to catch up to Poser & possibly surpass it - now they have released a comprehensive rigging deal for D|S backward compatible to Poser.  I think all they lack at this point is Dynamic cloth which appears to be on track for D|S ONLY at this point.

I have no real issues myself no matter how it would end up.

Just more things to ponder..... 

I beginning to regret contributing to this thread....

Fact: the 3D market generally is maturing and consolidating.
Fact: AutoDesk is emerging as the major player in the consolidation of pro CGI tools (AutoCAD, 3DS, Maya, XSi, Stitcher, etc.).
Fact: in recent releases E-On have made a concerted effort to break into the professional market with X-Stream plus full page ads in the likes of 3DWorld (see Vue 7 ad in #111, page 27)

Currently, the two viable ways for E-On to realise cash from the company are through either going public (unlikely in the current market) or a takeover. My concern remains that E-On are making themselves attractive to would be buyers the obvious one being AutoDesk.

Yes it is speculation and I sincerely hope I'm wrong but, given the above, it's not so far fetched.

BigGreenFurryThing,

You certainly do point out facts, and appropriately define your conclusion as speculation. Much different from a comment like "It will happen." You are correct at pointing out two possible exit strategies for e-on. There are of course more-- sell to employees, bring in partners, etc.. Or, do nothing, and keep cashing checks from sales-- a strategy employed by many software companies these days (including Newtek).

Even so, I suppose one could speculate the same scenario for any of a dozen programs out there, including Z-Brush, MudBox, Modo and others. Without some sort of 'other' evidence, it is all conjecture-- and I'm not sure exactly what the point is/was. 

My point was-- it IS all conjecture, and also to prevent the rumor-mill from spinning up-- as often it does with nothing more than innuendo.

Mark Caldwell,

Quote - When in a Hole Stop Digging

Too funny. I'll remember that one :-)

Well, all this speculation only reveals one thing ... you've all missed a major point.

I've been through this acquisition mess before as a user.

There once was a series of engineering design apps called "Visual Survey / Roads / Construction" owned by CAiCE Corporation of Florida.  CAiCE Corporation came up with a product that was a survey/geomatics, road/highway design and construction program(s) - in a modular approach.  The product was quite good and they converted a number of US states (high teens) into using the product for highway design and construction purposes.  A switch from Bentley products which rule the DOT arena.  A lucrative area for any company.

In 2001/2002, AutoDesk felt that Land Desktop was getting a bit "long in the tooth" and felt that they could not take it any further.  AutoDesk saw the posibilities of the technology within the CAiCE product, and "acquired" CAiCE Corporation and it's products in 2002 and placed one of the key designers of CAiCE into the position of chief architect of Land Desktops' sucessor, Civil 3D.  Those of you in the engineering field may recognise that name.

CAiCE Corporation was a privately held company.  The owner of CAiCE Corporation became an AutoDesk VP, most of the employees were let go with a large number of technical & programming staff migrating into AutoDesk.

AutoDesk "dropped the ball" at continuing to develop CAiCE, and therefore "lost" a number of DOTs as clients.  Finally, after 4 years of ignoring the original product, the VPs at AutoDesk realised the size of the market ($$$) they were neglecting, and are now fully supporting those DOTs and major clients that still use CAiCE until Civil 3D reaches parity with the CAiCE product.

Now, 6 years later after the acquisition, there are only 2 or 3 of the original CAiCE employees left within AutoDesk, including the chief architect.  Not sure of what happened of the original owner of CAiCE Corporation, maybe he is still there.

All this tells me that IF Vue is sold to AutoDesk, the original owner will loose all sense of control over the product and over the direction of development. 

It seems to me that Vue is a product created by a few people with a very definite idea of how the product should work and what it should do.  As long as Vue makes a profit and keeps the income stream well enough funded to create new versions of Vue, then Vue will not be sold.  I cannot speak for Mr. Phelps, but I get the impression from the product and the way the developers are talking about it that they are rather passionate about their creation (as are the users).  And people like that do not sell their "baby".

But then, that's my "2 bits" and that's not much coinage any more... ;-D

Hey, Martin Hash still owns Animation:Master, even after Microsoft tried to buy them several years ago. e-on and Hash are similar in many ways. I doubt they'll sell. And e-on is so niche, I don't think anyone would really want to buy them unless they had a ton of money and no company is in that situation right now or for the near future. The economy stinks unless you've been bailed out! ;)

Back to the original topic:

What features do you expect to be included in Vue 7 Infinite besides the obvious ones like new Solid Growth and Spectral Atmosphere Systems? Personally, I'm rooting for a fractal displacement system similar to the one from TG2, so that we can finally create true overhangs, stones etc. without having to use the buggy displacement map feature. I don't really think that there will be somehting like that in the next release, but I hope e-on will prove me wrong on that. I know they've been monitoring the features of Terragen 2, and if we got similar fractals then Vue would be the ultimate app :).

Ahhh....please, e-on, come on and make the official announcement vor Vue 7...

Personally I think its a PR disaster, scattered information, users searching the internet for scraps of info.

I guess E-On had to produce something a Siggraph but I think not even they wanted to announce Vue 7 so early. Still no real screenshots, no real info, just pricing for a product that is nothing but speculation. And all the coming soon info, I was it was coming soon :)

Jon

* I wish it was coming soon :)

Quote -
And all the coming soon info, I was it was coming soon :)

In the general software business, soon means in a few months. In the 3D apps business soon means in a couple of quarters (unless it is about Zbrush, then soon might mean in a few years...). For some 3D software houses (e.g. one located in Utah) soon means "may be this year"... if uttered in February.

On another forum I read a comment about the traditional E-On December sale; may be 7 will come out then, or, as I wrote in a posting sometimes ago in this forum, around March/April '09.

Terragen 2 has not even an announced final feature set, let alone release date (pardon, year).

POV-Ray 3.7 has reached 3.5 years of public beta (with no end in sight); apparently the work on the version 4 is still in the idle brainstorming phase.

B.t.w., if you want to read about people complaining, just go to DAZ forums: Studio got the rigging plugin which is just a candy w.r.t. the expected (since 2Q07) Optitex dynamic clothing engine. By reaction, Carrara users are fuming at the idea the Carrara7 is likely to have just some not-ground-breaking features (and keep old bugs) while Bryce users are starting again the "save Bryce campaign".

The are just a few positive notes in this really gloomy panorama:
1 ) apparently Caligari is still working on trueSpace (7.6 patch coming and officially acknowledged the existence of version 8);

1. in the SketchUp arena, books about SketchUp X and SketchUp Pro X (the fabled version 7) already announced for release on Amazon.com and similar sites (availability Dec 31);
2. Silo people announced version 2.2 with Collada support;
3. MoI and 3D Paint look very active;
4. on Kerkythea website the main programmer stated that the next version will take Kerkythea where it has never been (and if you consider that this renderer has a kind of  "painted ecosystem"... this might mean something).

Bye!!!