If you like it - please leave me a review!!

OK will do.  I am on the edge of my seat waiting for my download link email.

**In my version six of Poser I am having a problem applying the poses.  I have to wait five minutes for them to apply and they change the camera position ruining my animation of a dancing werewolf.

Ok after further experimentation I am finding that not all the poses will change the camera position and if I keep clicking the ok button with the wristwatch, it will load the poses in about forty seconds.  A small bother for sure and one I can live with.  I believe once I save my own poses back into the pose directory, that all will be OK.  There is certainly nothing wrong that would keep me from buying this again.

Tomorrow I will have to try this in Cararra and DAZ Studio.  I am looking forward to some fun in Puppetmaster and hopefully will be able to make hair grow on him at some point in an animation.
**

Xurge has made a fantasy outfit he stated would be out on Sunday (tomorrow)
Midnite Stories has an Ultimate Werewolf Morph set coming out soon. I have a fur and Alternative texture set coming out. We are also coming out with a pose set for it.

I ahd 4 testers ranginf from version 4 & up and Daz Studio and it testec fine. Please let me know if you find anything else I will be happy to do patches or updates as neccessary

This is something I just MUST have. Alas, it must wait until I have money again... Hopefully next Friday.  :)

Hey Chris, can you post some WIP's of the Xurge outfit in progress? I'm dying to see them!

Quote - Did you know that I have a Devil Dog Studios Group on Art ZOne - I hear there might be some special incentives for group members....I dunno you have to go see.

Cool. Joined immediately.

Why Thank You

Thanks for being right on top of this.  I think it is great.  Have you tested it in the walk designer?  When I tried to do a walk cycle it looked fine in the preview wireframe window, but when I clicked the apply button the only part of the legs that was moving was the feet.

My rigger told me it would not work right in the Walk Designer - I will be working to fix this issue and will update you asap

I like what you did overall Mestophales, my one suggestion for your next one is to make the back muscles more noticeable.  I just took a trip to ZBrush Central and saw your post with him and you totally lose the muscles in the Poser renders shown, which is a shame as you did a good job on them as far as I can see in that thread.

wow.  after all that work i think you should take just a little bit more time on his renders. not because you've done an awful job, just because i think your model is so good but the renders don't show all of his detail.  so much is lost from your initial pics to these Poser renders.  i'm tempted to buy him just to try to work on his materials.  just in case it would be helpful for you to know, i would work with my tweaks to bagginsbill's VSS default skin shader and teeth shaders, my default white room setup which uses a flat white IBL and spotlights with bagginsbill's inverse square falloff shader, and if i were feeling really adventurous, try to make a mask to blend a skin shader with one of my hair shaders.

Please note that Renderosity has received a copyright complaint from Sanctum Art that the monster that Mestophales posted is a violation of his. 

Thank you,
Jenifer Carey
Renderosity Vice President
& Copyright Agent

I beg to seriously differ!!!!!
There was no violation of copyright and I want to know exactly what he is claiming.

The Manitou looks like a whole nother critter to me.  I am scrutinizing the images from the Sanctum Art page and although there are similarities there are also differences.  Being that both creatures are werewolves, there are bound to be some similarities.

I think everyone should visit Vic Sorensangbam's site. He's the modeller behind Manitou and clearly remarkably talented.

As UVDan said, werewolf characters will have certain things in common. From the images they even look quite different. The proof is in the mesh.

Hopefully it gets resolved soon.

Teyon mentioned some Zbrush development images. i'd hope that those could clear things up.  just to say, as someone who doesn't know squat about judging these things, i think what's interesting is the, um, genital region.  SanctumArt's creature has a canine-like sheath in the front and a cropped tail in the rear.  if the creature were taken whole, i'd think those features would create a mesh mess if you tried to smooth them away.

Here's the thread I saw:

http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=63911&page=1&pp=15&highlight=werewolf

Hope it all gets sorted out.

Quote - Please note that Renderosity has received a copyright complaint from Sanctum Art that the monster that Mestophales posted is a violation of his. 

Thank you,
Jenifer Carey
Renderosity Vice President
& Copyright Agent

Nice driveby. how about an explaination

It wouldn't be the first time Sanctum Art would spring something like that.  I heard sometime ago about SA pressing violations against someone who, allegedly, did not rightfully own a product used in a posting.  This may get mean.

**Let us hope that it does not get mean. 

Several years ago I modeled an F6F Hellcat airplane.  Now I see that someone else has modeled an F6F Hellcat airplane and is selling it as a Poserized model in the marketplace  here.  Does that mean that I have the right to claim copyright infringement on the person who made the Poser F6F.  NO.  It only means that we both were inspired by the same subject.   Upon first glance both airplane models would appear to be the same, but closer inspection would reveal that his plane is much more detailed and better modeled than mine.**

Renderosity makes a lot more money on a figure that sells for $70 than they do one that sells for a mere $25. I'm just saying......a persons perception is their reality. Cases like this where the staff appear to show favoritism and a profound lack of objectivity really hurt the overall broker confidence in TRMP.

Clearly this is not a derivative work, no more than Horde is a derivative work of Mestophales Brute. I mean, they are both non human though so maybe Mestophales should file a cease and desist against Sanctum. By Jen's statement they'd have to put Horde on hold right? RIGHT?

Quote - Renderosity makes a lot more money on a figure that sells for $70 than they do one that sells for a mere $25. I'm just saying......a persons perception is their reality. Cases like this where the staff appear to show favoritism and a profound lack of objectivity really hurt the overall broker confidence in TRMP.

Clearly this is not a derivative work, no more than Horde is a derivative work of Mestophales Brute. I mean, they are both non human though so maybe Mestophales should file a cease and desist against Sanctum. By Jen's statement they'd have to put Horde on hold right? RIGHT?

First of all that I am aware of, sanctum art does not sell their products here.

Think what you will.

But I can assure you that the Renderosity staff does not play favorites as you assert.

Infact I just got/recieved the warning that an image I just posted tonight, using this character might be in vioaltion of copyright and I have to take it down now.

See no favorites. :lol:

YOU really should apologize for making such a baseless smear on the staff here.

Thanks for the heads up JenniferC.

Daidalos

Wait a minute!  I cannot post images made with this product at Renderosity?  I hope this issue is resolved before Halloween comes around.

Daidalos,

I'm sorry but you have missed my point entirely about PERCEPTION versus reality.

"But I can assure you that the Renderosity staff does not play favorites as you assert."

We're going to have to agree to disagree on that point. In any case what I'm talking about here is basic public relations. The way people perceive the treatment whether is is completely even handed or not.

And I'd be happy to apologize as soon as Renderosity offers something more than a claim by an artist who is known to be a bit like the boy who cried "Wolf".

At this point I think it would server Renderosity just fine if Metsophales sold the product on his own and kept all the sales money. The Manitou was around in early development stages on other sites long before the public release of Horde. It is not a derivative work as even a cursory glance at the meshes will attest. I suspect that this is all a business ploy by Santum I suspect becuase he doesn't like a comparable product selling for less than half the cost of his character.

What I don't like here is Rendo's policy of yanking someones product right before a Halloween sale no less for the acussation of infringement sans any proof.

I think they need to put it on hold when someone files a copyright claim. Just imagine you find someone else sells something that looks very similar to your product and they won't take it down for the time you and they need to investigate if your claim is valid.

But that aside I can tell you my observations: when I saw the pics of Manitu posted in this thread they immediately reminded me of SAs critters - not especially of Horde but of their critters in general that are available for a long time now. The very thing that made me wonder was one feature that I've yet seen only in SAs critters and that's the thumblike toe thingie on the side of the feet. Even my daughter who looked at the previews here pointed at the feet and said they would look like SAs critter's feet. Maybe that was the thing that made him file the complaint, I don't know. And I don't say your figure is a copy of his, just wanted to tell what I saw when I looked at the preview pics.

" thumblike toe thingie on the side of the feet"

Dogs and wolves have that useless appendage. I believe the werewolvesin Underworld have that little feature as well. Just an observation.

It's called a dew claw and I use them all the time when making animal models.  Truth is, the idea of a werewolf is public domain, no one, to my knowledge, has sole copyright over it. So it really falls down to 

1. Do the models share geometry?
2. How similar do they look?

 I really hope it gets resolved soon and that the meshes are compared quickly.

**Teyon, I think you should file a cease and desist claim. :) I am starting to regret voicing my opinion here.
**

Ok, maybe I didn't made clear what I was talking about or how I meant it. It would be easier for me to explain in german but anyway ... it's not that this thingie is there but it's the look of it, they way it's modelled. The DAZ werewolf has it too but it looks completely different where this one looks like those on Drub or Alpha or Havoc or Horde. And that is not a judgement or an implication that it's exactly the same or based on it or taken from it - it only looks the same. That's all I said.

No worries.  I understood where you were coming from but took the opportunity to point out that there are going to be features that are similar - partially because they exist in nature and partially because they exist in the bulk of the creature's legend (at least film wise).

Doubtful!

Puntomaus - yeah, but... the thing is, Poserdom suffers from being out of the loop CG wise.  i see that look all the time all over CG Society, in both 2d and 3d.  in general, lots of Sanctum Arts creatures are very like even older pro stuff, like the creature i just saw on TV  before turning away from Mimic 3: The Sentinel.  and Horde looks a lot like the werewolves in the Underworld series, imho.  SA is unique in Poser, but not in CG.  it's just most who master Zbrush and professional level sculpting don't bother selling models for less than a few thousand. 

a lot of stuff that seems particular to certain individuals is just the scarcity of professional 3d styles in Poserdom.  that isn't to take from those few who do sell here and have careers in the larger CG world.  they have incredible talent and style.  but it's like a professional graphic designer selling design elements in the market place here: they might be incredibly good, but still basically following current style norms. 

The Polycounts are as follows
   Manitou
      Vert = 101033
      Faces = 193728

   Horde
      Vert = 114731
      Faces = 190578

There are some similarities but there is absolutely no copyright violation. This project was started back in May 2008. I have all the documentation, reference images used to created the model, the ztl file, everything from start to finish. This is an absurd move and I am working with my attorney to bring a swift resolution to the problem.

Here are some of the refernce images used to create the model

http:www.tekbydesign.comManitou75.jpg
http:www.tekbydesign.comManitouHrC_werewolf_1024.jpg
http:www.tekbydesign.comManitouVH333_VanHelsingBack01_2.jpg
http:www.tekbydesign.comManitoubscap038.jpg

The ZBrush Movie of the XSI Model imported and sculpted in ZBrush

http:www.tekbydesign.comManitouZBrushMovie.mov

Here are the wiremesh views

There is a similarity simply because of the shape but there is no copyright violation here. Similar is not the same.

I hope that this can be handled swiftly.
 

Crap, this is ludicrous and I hope it gets sorted out quickly. I came here today to buy this model only to find it unavailable.

Anyone with half an eye can see that this model is different from SA's the horde (which I also own).

I would be more than happy to purchase this model under a 'private' arrangement if required.

Peace,

NM.

<_< this is maybe one of the most stupid things ive heard at rosity lately, i just cant see SA´s point.   btw, are there any bodymorphs on the list of addons?  the manitou has quite some potential, and  i might do some stuff for it  ^^

I think what is most upsetting is his DMCA notice elludes to a violation of his TOS and EULA. Let me make something clear for all who read this.

I started the Manitou (Werewolf) Project in May 2008 ( for which I have all emails and work for hire agreements proving this fact), on August 15th, 2008 the Horde was released on SanctumArt's site. I was one of the first to buy it at the $55 USD pricetag, which to be honest I thought was a good deal. I have always thought SanctumArt has produced some of the finest models out there. I have bought several of his items over the years.

However - he is suggesting that I bought his model, and either used his mesh in the actual creation of the mesh of the Manitou or he is saying we got our expressive idea of a werewolf from his.

In essence what he is implying is that should you buy a product from him you should never be allowed to build a your own expression of a competing product. No matter how original.

You can not copyright an idea only your expression of an idea, you may not copyright things that occur in nature such as a dew claw, you may not copyright a shape since there are only so many ways to build a mythical creature there are bound to be similarities.

I have offered to let SanctumArt examine the XSI Files, the ZTL Files, all concept art and references and the work for hire agreement I have with Vic Sorensangbam, which by the way he is also producing a few more models that will be coming out soon.  I have yet to hear ANYTHING from Michael Rak aka SanctumArt. I have issued a counter DMCA with Renderosity and a few other sites that received the DMCA's from SanctumArt.

I see no reason why Michael Rak would not contact me if he truly felt there was a violation, but as experience has told me when dealing with him - he just apparently is very stand offish

I have gone out of my way to find a cordial way to work this out with Michael Rak, but he is leaving me with very little recourse.

For those of you who have purchased the Manitou from renderosity I am sorry this has affected your ability to use your renders in the halloween contest. For those of you who have not yet had a chance to buy I am going to continue selling the Manitou on my personal site starting very soon. I con only guestimate the whole reason SanctumArt decided to go down this path is to keep a competing product off the market for Halloween. That is not an accusation just merely an opinion.

Does anyone else have an idea of what else I can do to work this out with Michael Rak?

Quote - Does anyone else have an idea of what else I can do to work this out with Michael Rak?

No, not really    You've offered already everything that could solve this issue very easily. Hope you got this sorted out asap.

I hope you get it resolved soon also :)

**Excellent news Mestophales,

Go get this fihure up on your own site and I will BUY, BUY, BUY.  Having looked at these models even more closely, the head on your figure is far more canine based than the horde, which has more of a human overtone to it.

Regards Micheal Rak, or whatever he's called  'F£$%$K  Him' who cares.

Peace,

SM.
**

Any status or update?

No nothing new - SanctumArt still has not replied, I have a meeting with my attorney on Wednesday in which we will be going over this matter in great length, Also Wednesday is day 10 since the date of the Counter DMCA I sent to Renderosity so everything should be back up online then.

oooo.....this guy better be careful lest he get a DMCA takedown notice from Sanctum Art, Inc. aka Michael Rak

http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=64496

Wow, it is the werewolf season isn't it?

um, yes.  october is.

Any news yet.????

I have received a letter from SanctumArt's attorney and have forwarded it on to my attorney. Hopefully there will be a resolution soon.

I hope this is favorably resolved in time for me to use the Manitou next Halloween.

Me too. :lol: