I just tried the abs as hip and so far it seems to work fine with IK ect. Definitely worth exploration. I'm going to set up the falloff zones and get back. the hip brings the legs up without IK on and acts weird with IK but let me set up falloff and see what happens.

Getting some very interesting results, I will have to recut my groups but this looks like a usefull setup cause with the IK on you can get some interesting deformations in the hip, It may be that it could be used to deform the hip into more human like proportions with the bulk of the bending done with the ABS, and then some deforming with HIP.

Quote - Getting some very interesting results, I will have to recut my groups but this looks like a usefull setup cause with the IK on you can get some interesting deformations in the hip, It may be that it could be used to deform the hip into more human like proportions with the bulk of the bending done with the ABS, and then some deforming with HIP.

You're way over my head with all that, but I'm glad I could hint you at something potentially interesting.

With the IK on it lets the hip swivel like a ball in the center of the body, so you can adjust things like the top of the crack and the sides of the hip and the groin. This is really cool odf! I'm going to play with it for awhile and see how it acts with different grouping.

Phantom3D, I am curious if you have anything to say about "bikeshort" versus "bikini" grouping of the hip. I just was using a figure with the hip group that extended to include the buttocks and upper thighs and I liked it a lot but I see most figures are cut tight in the bikini area.

The bike short style is my favorite too because it is smoother-more organic-elastic, but takes very precise fallof zones to get a clean groin cut.  The bikini style is much easier to get clean groin-buttcheek separation but does not deform as well and usually causes the infamous buttcrack halfway up the back. LOL.

Learn something new every day! I could say something about that....but it's filthier left to the imagination. :laugh: HAH! LOLOLOLOLOL

The "bike shorts" figures look really good bent over from behind and also with leg stretches. I think P2 Nude Woman had a good hip that looked pretty fine with just texture genitals as opposed to later figures even with mesh genitals. Certainly you can not get away with painted genitals with the bikini cut hip.

No and and you have to use only the legs for the bend which cuts a sharp line that actually deforms up into the crotch so even though you don't see it Unless you really look, you lose any texture that might be in those spots. You know James was really close to a decent hip, I can rearrange just a little on the James model and get a good working hip. (except for those two poly's that are welded together in the butt)

"two poly's that are welded together in the butt"? Isn't there a cream or ointment for that? LOL

So much of Poser just ends up there! I thought it was just something in the psychology of the poser-user that lent itself to potty humor, butt apparently there is something in that crack.....

:laugh: HAH! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

I bet James wished there was, must be painfull!  

Anyway I am going to release a ruff draft of a low polycount, game mesh, unmapped, untextured, probably not even rigged of Diamond & Chrome soon.

Then I will release with what ever progress I have made.

Maybe this path will get me to where I need to go.

Would love to see them, people will build things for them. I rigg everything I pick up (can't help it LOL) so I'll probably be building a rigg for them.

D/S has Catmull-Clark

http://www.daz3d.com/i/software/studio/features?_m=d

D/S Sub Divides a Quad

So you need to model with quads.

I am converting Diamond to all Quads,

http://64.234.196.28/RK_Tutorial/RK_Sub_D_Quads.htm

D/S does not Sub Divide a Tri.

So Tri's get the horror Look.

http://64.234.196.28/RK_Tutorial/RK_T_Mix_Sub-D_Tri-Quad.htm

I am going to learn D/S.

Working a lot , Learning D/S, Converting my meshes to all Quads.

A lot to do.

Does your killer rigs work in D/S ?

Still trying to find out if D/S has weights for rigs.

Most sales are probably for Poser but D/S is killer.

Rumor has it LW 9 does not SubD tri's any more but supports ngones

Does Max support nGones ?

I don't know if my riggs work in the new D/S they used to work in the old D/S but then in the 1.8 ? they acted strange so I have no idea what they do in the new one or what they will do in future versions of D/S it seems to change from version to version. Perhaps in the future Poser will get a new method of division, if not I supose I will go to just creating things for Max, lightwave, and Zbrush. More money in it anyway.

That's the market. Market is selling on Max, Lightwave and a growing market even in Vue, but the Poser is a hard mistress to shake,though.  If you need, you need. If you do for enjoyment, Poser has you. LOLOLOLOL When D/S finally settles on a release that doesn't blow SOMETHING up out of Poser, it'll be worth using and doing material releases for.

I've started seeing a lot more Poser animations on local TV. A LOT more.  People who want stuff like Poser OR D/S want something stable, and useable for the longer haul. They do not care otherwise. I started in Poser 4(hated it), did a little in the first D/S and after Poser 6 haven't left.

I prefer poser too for the fun of it. Max for me is a huge unweildy beast, not fun. But I believe if poser does not upgrade to some newer equipment it will suffer the backlash for it. And I want to make things people will use.  Some regular male clothes  like a nice suit and maybe some hip hop clothing and normal looking regular guy stuff.  For Angie: some real dresses that a woman might wear for the real world.  (IE not naked.)

GASP< You intend "NON-slutwear" releases in the future?  Wow......Mmmmmm...might start a trend or something?

I think SM might be trying some new things, but they didn't do to well on SR3,IMO. They might do better with some new people working on coding.  We'll just have to see.  I hope for good things,too.

With all the folks around here working in all the various "Rooms" of Poser, someone might come up with something wonderous to add to whole. I'm surprised and delighted already. ^__^

Oh if I was serious about selling stuff for Poser to make $$$.

I would make sexy stuff for V4.

The biggest reason I hang out here is it's fun and laided back.

I guess what ya call pro app forms are just to ,the right word eludes me so will go with stuffy.

There all rag Poser but could not model,map,rig Vicky's =.

and RTFM, err if the manuals worth reading then whys there so much educational material, online classes even for sale ?

There is a good way to make $$$.Max is a monster.

Yes sexy stuff would probably sell better, but I'm sick of it , there needs to be some variety. Even if it doesn't sell as well. 
 I like rosity for the same reason, I don't get attacked every time I say something. And people here will usually answer a question. 

I do wish they sold entire complete themes prop bundle for movies.

So you have every thing you need to make a movie.

All the cities,props, characters, sounds etc etc.

So if you wanted to make a movie like.

Blade Runner,Matrix,Star Wars etc etc. 

All you got to do is set down and make the movie.

There are serious Legal reasons why that isn't done, as well as artistic reasons. I'm doing my own "movie" and I'm on my own because it's MINE. Not a derivative of ANYONE else's work, MINE.  As such, I use what fits my vision.  That makes my story, mine.  I can see fanart for all sort of movies in the galleries.

You'd have to get licenses cleared with the production company, and be appointed the only dealer of each mesh, etc.  In the end--that merchant would lose money. The license fees would eat up the profits, and at best, it'd be a break even proposition. 

In a nutshell, that's why it's not done that way,IMO.  Helgard,Jhoagland, and the other people at vanishingpoint could clue you in on some of the stumbling blocks a lot better than me.

I did not mean to remake Blade Runner,Matrix,Star Wars etc etc.themes.

I meant to have a sci fi theme.all its own.

& you can have fantasy,1950's stone age etc etc

characters sold for poser are 99.9% skinny babes,need the rest of the characters .

young,old fat,skinny tall,short .etc etc.

JoeGlaine are you making all the stuff for your movie buy your self ?

I think full sets would be great whatever the genre. My big problem is outdoor settings for building exteriors or even out the window of interior scenes; even the forest settings I have don't have backgrounds to place them against. Very strange. Only a couple scenes I have came with a panorama or world dome to set them in... A full set of costume, props, scene and background would be amazing... modern day, future or neolithic, but now the marketed is dominated by people who want to earn $50+ per development hour rather than just a token of spending money and the satisfaction of sharing some cool work so I imagine any package like that would price itself out of the market.

I have always wanted to do a whole street and market square for old greek scenes. With all sorts of people old beggars, rich fat merchants, Painted ladies in palanquins (SP?) people gambling over a wrestling match, hawkers and criers. All with different expressions depending on what they're doing.  Someday....

Quote -  

JoeGlaine are you making all the stuff for your movie buy your self ?

No, not all. I'm cherry-picking sets, figures, clothes, and such, and putting my own textures to unify them together. It's a lot of work, but the end product is what I'm concerned about. The art.

On the other stuff, I wasn't sure what you meant about movies.  Now I do. Themes would be pretty good.  DAZ almost went in that direction with the Dragonworld, and other themes. They didn't sell well, from what I heard. I'm not sure what went wrong with their themes.

when you group bones to a mesh in poser do you half to group polygons.

can you group edges or  vertices ?

does the version of poser mater I have P5

Momodot : one would think they would at least complete there product.

can always get backgrounds or make ya own with Bryce, Vue.

Phantom3D : If you can not manage to find that magic time stopping crystal for your 3D Greek market place,might I suggest a nice 2D Greek market place.

JoeGlane : good luck on ya movie and saving the world.

I am attempting to find a practical way to put graphics with my story.

Don't think a movie is doable for now,so where thinking comic book style.

In who knows what medium.

I keep looking for that magic time stopping crystal who knows if I ever find it I will actually get something done.

as far as I know you have to group poly's for poser.

I don't know of a time stopping crystal, but I have heard of some herb that does something like that. :)

Those herbs also make 3d space look 2d,too besides stopping time. :laugh: Their use scare me, so I took up Poser instead. With poser (most versions) I can control what I see more easily. :lol: LOLOLOLOL

So comic book heros are 4 feet 8 inches tall ?

1 Eye = 1 inch

Heads are 5 Eyes Wide, 7 Eyes Tall.

36 inches = 3 feet

48 inches = 4 feet

60 inches = 5 feet

72 inches = 6 feet

7*6.0 Heads = 42.0 Eyes Tall

7*6.5 Heads = 45.5 Eyes Tall

7*7.0 Heads = 49.0 Eyes Tall

7*7.5 Heads = 52.5 Eyes Tall

7*8.0 Heads = 56.0 Eyes Tall

7*8.5 Heads = 59.5 Eyes Tall

7*9.0 Heads = 63.0 Eyes Tall

So that’s how your doing it. Gotta love it when magicians reveal their secrets. What a wonderful concept phantom3d, the excellent results are very obvious and incredible. It’s a great idea and very generous of you to share knowledge with the community. It‘s always nice to see someone pushing the limits of what’s possible with a Poser rig. Thanks:biggrin:

Man, now everytime I work with V3 and V4 I wish they had your rigging, its just amazing. I heard you were rigging them, is it true? would a realease of that be possible? I'd be the first in line at the marketplace!

I was thinking  that if I could get one of my riggs to work on them without changing any of their body groups then I could put out a rigg for them.  Otherwise there would be no way to do it without also including the geometry.

You could use UVMapper to export the grouping. The free version is fine for this.

I'd be very interested in any alternate rigging you may have done for male figures.
Vicky, not so much :P

Quote - I was thinking  that if I could get one of my riggs to work on them without changing any of their body groups then I could put out a rigg for them.  Otherwise there would be no way to do it without also including the geometry.

If you change the grouping you can distribute the work as a difference file using the free Objaction Mover or RTEncoder for encoding to the original... a simple one-click operation.

UVmapper Classic which is free can export the grouping in a distributable .uvs file I think.

There may even be a way to do this as an injection pose.

Just my 2 cents worth

If it was me I do not think I would mess with Vicky.

Spend all that time on anothers mess when i could spend that time working on my mesh.

Half to jump threw all those hoops to maybe get her rigged with my rigs.

You know after you go threw all that

DAZ could release Vicky 4.5 with killer rigs.

Think I would just rig my meshes that I have 100% control over with the killer rigs.

Quote - Just my 2 cents worth

 

If it was me I do not think I would mess with Vicky.

Spend all that time on anothers mess when i could spend that time working on my mesh.

Half to jump threw all those hoops to maybe get her rigged with my rigs.

You know after you go threw all that

DAZ could release Vicky 4.5 with killer rigs.

 

 

Think I would just rig my meshes that I have 100% control over with the killer rigs.

Yeah, I agree here. If it were me, I'd stick with my own figure and get it done and not worry about the other figures anyone else has done.

To V4 or not? Depends on ONE BIG factor. How hard up for money are you?  Since I have .09 cents in my pocket and pretty damned bad for cash right now, I'd do a V4 rig right now and sell it with it RTE encoded like DPHoadly did with his V4 toV3 UVmapped body.

If you're not strapped for cash, tell V4 to drop dead, and work on your own vision and don't worry about other's vision.  Feed your muse first, if you can afford to.

If you need some fast $$$ Make V4 a hot miny skirt and sexy panties.

There would be nothing stopping DAZ from releasing V4.3 with the same grouping, rigs as phantom 3D for free 10 minutes after phantom 3D starting selling his V4.2 rig set up

V4 is the property of DAZ.

It just seems to me that it is bad business to waste your time on some body else's property.

Mybe you're right, but Phantom3D seems to enjoy working on his rigs more that most of us would.

Also he mentioned he would be honored to have Daz use his rigs, he was hoping they would use it for M4, so I figured he might consider it.

DAZ would not care about Poser all that much.

DAZ needs rigs that works in D/S with there Animation Tools,Plugs.

And I dont care about either one, I just would like Vicky to bend this nicely (lol that can be taken in more than a way) =P

My rigg may not work in D/S don't know.  I have riggs for all the figures except Apollo Max, in various states of completion, so I may figure out how to package them and let them out.

I mentioned that I was working on a new better rigg.  Well it's doing really well, I have found a way to be able to control each side of the hip independently. Basically you have two joints in the hip that act like ball joints and can swivel around.

There are some pics of it here with some explanation.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2753785&page=6

I've been following this with interest, but I can't seem to implement the basic idea under discussion.  When I've added an extra parent for the Hip, it simply behaves like a secondary Body actor.  The result is somewhat like parenting the figure to a prop or something.  It helps me with extra figure rotation options, but hasn't changed any bending results.

On the other hand, I work almost exclusively with Vicky 1 (I never even graduated to Vicky 2 LOL).  Would that make a difference and effectively nullify the benefits?  Is it essential that a figure be re-cut to implement this technique?  If so, what pronciples are applied when recutting?

And... (hopeful) you (phantom3D) state that you've adapted this rigging for various figures.  You haven't perhaps re-rigged Vicky 1?  A better rig for the figure (and instructions for porting clothes to the new rig, if necessary) is something I, personally, would pay cash money for....

Keep up the fantastic work!  :D

One more bone in between the hip and the new parent. See what I mean? It makes it so that the Hip can swivel and move around (with IK on) So you basically have a hip body handle- hip and hip2 Also important to point it in the right direction. I use it as a point without an endpoint.Also you need stabilizer bones for the hip body handle, just a left and right bone also parented to the hip body handle, this lets you move the bone around to point in different dirrections. You can also call hip lower Abdomen and hip 2,  hip and it will work with most pose files but you will have to set lower abdomen manually.  And yes you must recut the mesh into new groups.  I like using a large hip group and my thigh, hip and lower abdomen actually all bend in the hip group. But you can use the bikini style hip group too.

Oh wow, the Scoop! oO!
Sorry, I'm late to this thread.  Wow... this is such impressive work!
 
Phantom3D, I hope you have not given-up on the idea of releasing your male figure Brad, (whether you choose to do it as product or a freebie). I think 90% people wouldn't be able to figure out your innovative your rig and mimic it for themselves. That's why we are more than willing to pay you for your expertise. -^

If you ever get the idea of releasing new rigs for other models such as M3 (makes pleading sad puppy dog eyes), I would slap down good money to buy it!  You could call it:  PhantomM3!  ^^ <3

Perhaps if you do that, PhilC could make a WW plug-in for PhantomM3. Then clothing could be easily be converted to the new rig. And perhaps a new version of Universal Morph Transfer, could convert existing morphs/groups to the new Phantom morph/groups. I think it's  totally do-able! UMT works by converting Group 1 Gen 3 figure morphs (V3,SP,D3,L3,B3) to Group 2 Gen 3 figure morphs (M3, Freak). I don't think it be that difficult to convert Injection morphs to the new Phantom groups. It's already been done once! ^^

I would be very happy to spend lots of money in the Phantom3D store for your excellent new figures like Brad, or for any new rigs on other figures. ^^  

Well done!  ^^

p.s. Something you might find interesting...
Over on the DAZ forums, there is talk of how MorphBrush creates ERC JMCs that automatically turn on for when the arm is up or down. You can read more about it here:
http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=98515&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=162

Ooh.  So it's more complicated than I thought.  Thanks for the response. 

Is this something that can be set up in the (nervous shudder) setup room?  I tend to prefer cr2 editing, but this doesn't sound like an easy copy-and-paste exercise for such editing.

If anyone in this thread has made this work, can someone maybe post a diagram or illustration which somehow shows us dummies how the rig is arranged?  The Cage is a bit slow-is.... 

Dude, I told you! You can make money re-rigging pre-existing figures. You just need to RTE encode them versus the existing geometry mesh.  DPHoadley did the same with the remapped V4.

If you love the Set-up room where most people run screaming from it (I walk screaming from it. :laugh:) Don't be afraid to except some praise (or cash) from people who respect that. If you want to release freebies, people will praise you.  If you open a store, you might make some cash.

Never underestimate the power of cash in your pocket to afford some pizza's when you need it!

Wow. People ARE beating down your door for a better mousetrap! LOLOLOLOL :lol:

Re-rigging Vicky-1 ?

Why ? 

:tt2:    :tt2:

Thanks for the thread link, that part about morphing tool morphs ignoring the joint deformations is very interesting. I had found another way around the joint deformations with morphs.  What I do is export a copy of the figure posed and a copy of the figure not posed, then I import the posed figure into Zbrush and put into a layer, then I create my morphs on the posed figure so I know exactly what they will do withe the bent joint, then I create a new layer and import the unposed figure into that and transfer only the moved vertices to the unposed figure, and this way you have a morph that behaves correctly with the joint bends. The morphing tool sounds very interesting though and I have not worked with it much but I will.

I am still going to release brad and If I can get these riggs finished I will release them too, I found out that you can also use Dimension3D's morphing clothes to transfer the morphs over from V4 to my rerigged V4 with no problem at all and very fast too. So it's very doable. I am working out this new rigg right now, hoprfully be done shortly.   also I start back to work at my regular job at the end of this month, and that will give me alot more time to get back to work on all my own stuff, can't wait.   

My rigging inovations are  really pretty simple, alot of it is just using the poser rigging in ways that were never intended but it works. The hip thing was an accident I thought my cr2 was broken but found the results to be very beneficial.  LOL Anyway I don't really care if everyone knows how to do these things, that's the thing about knoweledge, you can never really keep it for yourself or it's useless.