C7 out!

YEAH and its flying !! damn fast and cool ...

Chris

Great timing..  My wife just lost her job so No C7 for us.

$99.  I suppose we gotta download it again, like with c6pro.

Hmmm, only 16% off and the sale expires on the 31st?  Guess they didn't want you to use your Jan. vouchers on it.  So besides being apparently faster, do folks who've tried it think this version is a good upgrade value?  What are the key improvements? Not much listed on that page.  Does anyone know if they added support for 3Dconnxion's Space Navigator?

I recommend you wait for a demo or you got the 30 day window. It is really a personal decision whether you think it's worth it to upgrade. The pro has more than standard of course. It just came out and supposedly many of the beta bugs are supposed to be fixed, but you are better off determining that for yourself. They list the features they have added so that you can see.

Sparrow,
I am very sorry to hear that. Lot of that going around. I hope things will be ok for you.

 Fundamentally, if you make stuff, texture stuff, modify your renders with a Photoshop/CorelPhoto Pait or animate stuff, then C7 is worth the upgrade. 

If  you only render stuff, made, textured and/or animated by others, the changes won't be as significant.

Mark

What about other Carrara issues - does it import content better, mangle shaders less, are the realistc sky bugs cleaned up?

If anyone has installed and played around, please advise.

Thanks,

Klebnor

 There have been many, many bug fixes. In fact, I can confidently say that half of this release was all about fixing bugs that kept getting postponed in favor of new feature development. I can personally say that bugs I listed early in the development of C6 were fixed in this round  of C7.

No doubt there are some new ones waiting to be discovered. 

When you say "mangle shaders" what do you mean? If you mean importing them from different programs - that's an issue for every 3D software out there since they all use different schema. I do a lot of jumping between c4d, modo, vue, poser pro and carrara. Regarding shader import, even if all the shaders have been converted to texture maps instead of procedurals, the shaders have to be 'fixed' in the receiving program.

Mark

Many of the Pro features people may be using another program for so I can't entirely agree with Mark's assessment. The one that is useful and which no other program can replace for you is the Multi-Pass rendering. The modeling in assembly room has some unique advantages also. As far as bugs and polishing that I really think you should personally evaluate. You don't want to take someone else's word for that kind of thing.

Mark:

Mangled shaders.  What I mean is, when I import objects created for Poser or Daz Studio, frequently there are problems.  The most frequent is an annoying shininess with inappropriate textures, like fabrics.  A fabric will give off glare as if it were rubber or plastic.  Then there is the problem with meshbox buildings, which import (have to import the 3DS version, the poser versions are one big mesh) with the shader, but with all parts exhibiting some transparency so you can see through everything to varying degrees.  Then there are the extreme highlights on skin shaders for poser and DAZ figures.  All lighting must be at high angles to the camera in order not to create bright reflections off the skin.

If there is a standard procedure to deal with these issues, I would be very interested.  I usually poke around the shaders until I get the problem fixed to an acceptable state.

Klebnor

I run into the shine issue a lot too, especially with skin textures.  For me it's not such a big deal since I typically have to go in and mess with the shaders so I don't have 20 identical shaders for a single model..  I create 1-3 masters for them, so when I do this I tweak down the shine and reflection to get rid of it.  I find it a lot easier to do this in Carrara than poser.

Quote - Mark:

Mangled shaders.  What I mean is, when I import objects created for Poser or Daz Studio, frequently there are problems.  The most frequent is an annoying shininess with inappropriate textures, like fabrics.  A fabric will give off glare as if it were rubber or plastic.  Then there is the problem with meshbox buildings, which import (have to import the 3DS version, the poser versions are one big mesh) with the shader, but with all parts exhibiting some transparency so you can see through everything to varying degrees.  Then there are the extreme highlights on skin shaders for poser and DAZ figures.  All lighting must be at high angles to the camera in order not to create bright reflections off the skin.

If there is a standard procedure to deal with these issues, I would be very interested.  I usually poke around the shaders until I get the problem fixed to an acceptable state.

Klebnor

"The one that is useful and which no other program can replace for you is the Multi-Pass rendering."

Actually ren_mem Poser has had Render passes for a long time now.  It's under "Scripts".  I only have Poser Pro on this computer, but it even allows you to select how you want your shadows handled (ie separtate passes).

I've used it for a few things, it is a handy little feature.

 The texture/shader import is an issue for all programs doing silly things like making things shiny. 

This is why Poser Pro was created - because it functions like a very expensive plug-in for C4D, Maya, LW and others. The Poser texturing issues get handed back to Poser to deal with during render while the host program renders the lighting and stuff. Vue has built a special importer instead. I don't think perfect integration between Poser and Carrara has been a super high goal for DAZ since Poser is A) a competitor, and B) inferior in many ways to Carrara's capabilities - many ways, not all ways.

The way I've handled it with Carrara is take a little time and customize an imported shader tree for each character/map. This usually has me making changes to a single texture and then subscribing to that one shader with the reference shader option in Carrara. Once everything is set, I drag my new character shader in the the browser and save it. Then when I have a new scen with the same character or clothing sets, I simply grab my replacement shaders and drop them on.

Mark:

It sounds like you have a solid work flow for dealing with this constant issue (it crops up on almost anything I try to use in Carrara to one extent or another).  I used to use Poser 7, but since using Carrara, I'm spoiled.

If you walked through how you do the custom shader tree and use of the reference shader option, I'm sure many would benefit.

Klebnor

 Yea, I should probably do a little video on this one for sure. I keep writing about it here...  ;-)

I'll see what I can do.

Mark

Pretty much the same way I have been doing it.  I am pretty impressed with how well Carrara manages to import Poser textures.

Quote -  The texture/shader import is an issue for all programs doing silly things like making things shiny. 

This is why Poser Pro was created - because it functions like a very expensive plug-in for C4D, Maya, LW and others. The Poser texturing issues get handed back to Poser to deal with during render while the host program renders the lighting and stuff. Vue has built a special importer instead. I don't think perfect integration between Poser and Carrara has been a super high goal for DAZ since Poser is A) a competitor, and B) inferior in many ways to Carrara's capabilities - many ways, not all ways.

The way I've handled it with Carrara is take a little time and customize an imported shader tree for each character/map. This usually has me making changes to a single texture and then subscribing to that one shader with the reference shader option in Carrara. Once everything is set, I drag my new character shader in the the browser and save it. Then when I have a new scen with the same character or clothing sets, I simply grab my replacement shaders and drop them on.

Quote - "The one that is useful and which no other program can replace for you is the Multi-Pass rendering."

Actually ren_mem Poser has had Render passes for a long time now.  It's under "Scripts".  I only have Poser Pro on this computer, but it even allows you to select how you want your shadows handled (ie separtate passes).

I've used it for a few things, it is a handy little feature.

I didn't mean no other program had multi-pass. That would be silly to say. I meant that if you are using Carrara as your renderer then a multi-pass feature isn't something another program can do for you. It needs to come from the rendering program not outside the rendering program.

Regarding the poser shaders. I agree. In fact, the more you do in Carrara, the happier you will be. It's a paradigm shift. Anytime you have to go back and forth between programs it can be a pain. Integrated program suites like adobe's are a good example of making that much easier.

Oh, sorry, ren_mem, my misunderstanding.  Cheers!

Quote - ....... I do a lot of jumping between c4d, modo, vue, poser pro and carrara. Regarding shader import, even if all the shaders have been converted to texture maps instead of procedurals, the shaders have to be 'fixed' in the receiving program.....
Mark

Hey Mark,
You sound like me, trying to find a good combination of programs that work well together.
My primary goal is to find a rendering program that will import Poser (Daz) characters and render them better than Poser AND is easy to manipulate.

I never liked Poser's UI.  Moving characters and cameras was always a "pulling hair out" experience for me.  Daz Studio came along and I thought it was the answer, it's interface allowed much easier posing and camera movement, but it's so full of bugs and limited export potential, I've finally moved back to Poser.

I used to use Poser -> Carrara to render.  So I was excited when the latest version came out.
But I'm kind of dissapointed.  I like the way Vue renders Poser characters (not to mention the superior natural scenes you can create).  So when I went back to Carrara, the skin textures of the Poser characters seem very flat and dull.

On the plus side, Carrara handles multiple Poser characters much more easily than Vue.  Vue gets bogged down very easily, even on my 64bit machine with 8 GB of ram.

So, I guess I'm having a spiritual crisis of sorts when it comes to what software to use as my regular everyday tools.  I want something that imports characters well, is easy to manipulate and renders well.
Why can't I have it all in one package?!?!  LOL!

 When you find the perfect solution, please let me know! :D

Quote -  When you find the perfect solution, please let me know! :D

Well that's not very encouraging, I was hoping for some helpful hints and some spiritual guidance? :biggrin:

 C4D Studio is wonderful - and expensive. You need to use Poser Pro to work with it so it's still the double application thing; unless you want to re-reg the characters that is. C4D does offer some greater capabilities than Carrara but unless you are a career illustrator or animator, the difference in cost between C4D and C7Pro will never be made up for in advantages gained.

Seriously, most folks don't realize how wonderful Carrara is and feature sets that it has as compared to other products - especially for the price.

 Is anybody using the OSX version of Carrara 7 Pro. I am kind of in the sidelines. I just purchased modo this past year. I am still learning it and it's taking longer then what I thought. I don't do much animation so to me modo seems to be a better fit then Carrara at this point. But I am still curious to see if the OSX version of Carrara runs well. DAZ seems to be a little bias towards Windows, if you ask me.

I don't use content and so far C6 Pro has really not improved much as far as rendering from previews versions. How does C7Pro stack up. 

Also, I find it kind of unfortunate that I am required to upgrade to get bug fixes that should have been patched in version 6 Pro.

 I've been a Beta Tester for C7 on OSX. It runs well. 

I also use modo which is really a different animal than C7. It's aimed at a modeling and photo realistic rendering market so it has some optimizations for that C7 doesn't. However, C7's shader options are much more flexible and you can do nice cell shading renders (Toon) and NPR renders that you can't with modo. So, if doesn't break the bank, C7 is very nice to have around. I use both - and others too. Whatever gets the job done.

Mark

Quote -  C4D Studio is wonderful - and expensive. You need to use Poser Pro to work with it so it's still the double application thing; unless you want to re-reg the characters that is. C4D does offer some greater capabilities than Carrara but unless you are a career illustrator or animator, the difference in cost between C4D and C7Pro will never be made up for in advantages gained.

Seriously, most folks don't realize how wonderful Carrara is and feature sets that it has as compared to other products - especially for the price.

How does C4D compare to Carrara in rendering quality and also system usage (bogging down wise)?

 r11 has a significantly faster render engine than r10. It is faster than Carrara for GI but only if you intelligently use it's render settings. Of course it's also set up to use Renderman etc., so it's own render time isn't necessarily a good benchmark compared to Carrara since many times the rendering is farmed. Additionally, the GI and caustic capabilities are only available if you get the full Studio version or add the Advanced Render module to the base edition. 

C4D is kinder to the computer system resources than Carrara is - most of the time. But, you can bog your system down if you try. You can never have too much RAM.

C4D uses the "buckets" rendering scheme that high end software is migrating to. But to get the super realistic renderings, you also need to have the Advanced Render module. The lower end C4D doesn't come with it. 

C4D is in a different league so a straight across comparison, while the names of areas may be the same, the software render core, materials and modeling functions are not. And you pay for the league it's in. Plug-ins for C4D cost as much or more than Carrara Pro. I mean, hey, with Vue7  xStream, Vue functions as a real-time C4D plug-in.

Straight out of the box C7Pro will give you more functionality and capability than C4D standard. 

Okay thanks for the info Mark.  I don't think I'll be getting C4D any time soon.  But it sounds like I should just stick to the software choices I already have.  I'm liking Vue right now for rendering, but since I just paid for the Carrara upgrade, I might as well keep trying to find things that will work for me with that too.

Well i had give up on posrer pro half price update and cant afford 7 pro update to many bills to pay, so looks like will have wait 1 or 2 years to buy, pity but cant cry over spilt milk.
And they might half price again