Question: Is V3 really outdated?
You can still find a lot of stuff for V3 and she compares visually good against V4.
Shoot me, you will not hit, I am hidden behind a lot of beautiful V3 ladies!

she's pretty much as good as V4, imo.
Lots of stuff for her.
She's nowhere near outdated

V3 is still a hot babe, and always will be! V4 is ok-but
V3 looks more a fuller bodied woman. V3 has a lot of
great characters out there. Don't get me wrong now
for I bought them all- I just find working with V3 easy.
M4 has been the biggest let down so far.

i agree on M4..i had purchased the big package and returned it. Still have M4 base..the V4 morphs work with him..most amyway, so you can still morph him about.

"Make new friends; but keep the old. One is silver, the other gold." (:

why not both?...;)

You mean old macaroni shoulders???

History may well record that she was the apex of Victorian technology. 

Quote - why not both?...;)

...and at the same time! woot! :lol:

Attached Link: Woot (disambiguation)

As for V3, while I'm not an aficianado of any DAZ figure, my esperience with her is thus: Having remapped Posette, Judy, and V4, I do believe that V3 shares much more in common with Posette and Judy, both in mesh and proportion than with V4.  V3's hip and thigh ratio is much, much, closer to Posette's and Judy' than V4's is.  V3, Posette, and Judy have a long hip, from crotch to navel, and a reletively short thigh from hip bone to knee.  V4's is just the opposite, which is why, when I remapped her, I had trouble trying to adapt V3's second skins to her anatomy.
To sum it up, I think that V3's anatomy and figure is much closer to that of the ideal of woman than V4's is.
DPH

and there you have it ! woot!

I've always liked V3. Wasn't there a chart someplace comparing real human anatomy to each of the mesh women ? With measurements, of the limbs, trunk, etc ?

I still use V3 and S3P a lot. I even throw V2 into a crowd for variations of characters from time to time. If a vendor makes something that fits backwards from V4 into the Mil3 figures, I am inclined to purchase that over one that does not.

I have a chart I made in excel The data came from these forums. I think this is what you are talking about as the data was a chart pasted into a post that did not line up right do to spacing. I can look around for it and see if I can find it. PM me with an email addy and if I have it still I will email you a copy. Just tell me if you want the excel version or a txt version.

FYI I don't think the chart covers V4 and I no it doesn't  cover M4

I still use V3 , for some reasons.
First:    
She is the figure i have the most stuff from the stores.
Second:
She works in my splitted runtime environment without problems and does not
fill my harddisk whith useless crap.
For example:  My custom V3 SAEc.cr2 File has 1.458 KB of space.
its possible it inject and remove any single morph i need.

I got V4 and the Morphs++ Pack from Daz what means 2 files:
Victoria 4 Base.cr2    7.669 KB    the base with Expression Morhps
Victoria 4.cr2        36.618 KB  The full version with all Morhps
and not a single Injection File to Inj/rem any Morph.

Boah ! 36Megs for each .pz3 or .cr is save ...
Use file compressions, ok , its still a lot.

I bought some products for V4  and did some tests.
On my opinion V4 felt much more 'plastic' than V3 that time.
(Well looking the renders in the galleries now, this has changed i think)

Later i updated on the Daz Page to V4.2
She doesnt like to be installed in her own runtime, (e.g. D:_RTV4)
no this lady has be installed inside your mainruntime, means the poserinstallatoin itself
(e.g.: D:P7)
otherwise you get a lot of errormessages loading her.
On that point i stopped with V4.2.
I event dont rember wether V42. brought inj / rem files.
(mybe i deal with this in the future)

Besides that i discovered that Jessi form P6 is nice too.

greetings
xuu4u

In a technical sense, both figures have advantages and disadvantages.  V4 is much easier to rig clothing for strictly in Poser/DAZ|Studio, but since V4 is heavily reliant on Poser's magnets (and D|S's coresponding deformers) she doesn't work very well at all in external applications.  For external applications that interpret Poser's joint-controlled morphs (JCM), V3 will often work better.  The V3 rig still has a lot of problems though, overall I think SP3 is rigged/JCM'd a whole lot better.

M4, by contrast, is all JCM and is interpreted well by external apps that are aware of JCM.

Quote - and not a single Injection File to Inj/rem any Morph.

There are single INJ/REM poses included with V4, but what is lacking is any form of sorting or grouped "Load all Head" etc batch loaders.  I've written a set of these for V4/M4, available in my freebies.

Ha!
I can beat that.
If I pile all the M4 morphs I have into one figure, he is a whopping 189mb in size.

M4 Base
M4 Morphs++
Hiro4
Ultra Morphs (RDNA)
M4 Enhanced.

Scary stuff, that...

Quote - Ha!
I can beat that.
If I pile all the M4 morphs I have into one figure, he is a whopping 189mb in size.

M4 Base
M4 Morphs++
Hiro4
Ultra Morphs (RDNA)
M4 Enhanced.

Scary stuff, that...

LOL, ( i learned that at playing WOW)
reading that (above)  i could start to begin with how much did Micro**** pay to Da**D for making the files SOO Big :) knowing that behind MS are the Hdd-produers ....

But seriosly, the rem inj system for V3 was good, dont understand why they discontinued it
with V4.
What sense does it make to carry always every unneeded morph on board ?
this is as a backstep. (remembers me V2 : Victoria 2.cr2 20.8 Megs uncompressed)

There's no way in Poser to delete all unused moprhs in any kind of figure or prop.
Would be nice, if you know your scene is done (lets say final), to remove unneeded ballast.
Or better : create (combined) FBM's  for all props / figures in the scene NOW and delete all the other  morphs.
oh man, that could reduce the poser-used filespace for lightyears.
If you need the morphs again  for an  item, just reload it the item , or use morphmanager ....

hmm im not a poser pyhton guru, but  a script like 'Remove all Unused Morphs for Scene figures / props' should be possible :)

PhilC, ockham what do ya think ?
Or please correct me , if there is a way INSIDE Poser, does not mean walk throug every prop
figure body part and remove it by hand, becaus thats possible but a bit 'uhandy' and time consuming....

BTW: implement 'grouping' for morphgroups is easy, 
example: look for ABG's Stuff he provide that for V3 SAE in  simple .pz2

greetings
xuu4u

Quote - But seriosly, the rem inj system for V3 was good, dont understand why they discontinued it with V4.

I told you, they didn't.  These poses are available for each single morph and for all morphs in one file from DAZ, and by groups from my freebies.

Quote - i agree on M4..i had purchased the big package and returned it. Still have M4 base..the V4 morphs work with him..most amyway, so you can still morph him about.

At Dave-So, is it true that you can use V4's morphs with M4?  Interesting to know if is...

The mesh can take them in that the vertex count and order seems to be the same, but many of the channel names are different/not present.  Be aware also that a great many of the morphs will simply look bizarre, e.g. nearly all the full body morphs will take the chest to very bad places.  Most of them leave a really bad divot in the trapezius too.

on the m4-v4 morphs....inject them in and see what works. Quite a few of them do. I don't do much body morphing...mainly head morphs. once there are clothes, they all look pretty much the same, unless you're into the usual body stull that goes with Poser

Hey, works for me; I too like to do facial morphs myself -- in fact, this is a custom morph I made for M4.  If only I can do a custom full body morph from Hex to Poser.

--I didn't mean to go off topic, but wanted to respond back to Dave-So--

JB

V4 is better because it's newer. Newer always equals Better. Well, if you buy into the DAZ philosophy that is.
V4 does have some advantages. IMO, it's UV mapped better, and the morph forms for body and hands and eyes save alot of time, especially for the hands which can be tedious, posing all 16 parts individually.

M4, OTOH, IMO,  just sucks, period. Terrible design, goofy looking bastard, like they put as minimal effort into it as possible. All kinds of problems.

Well, as some of you may know, I'm hooked on V3. Most of all my images are made with her.
Yes I will admit she can at times be a bit of a pain, but that's what makes her such fun to work with. I need something that will give me a little bit of a challenge; it just helps me to get better at my craft.
I can't stand that "straight out the box look"that you get with V4. (Your post looks like my post and they both look like the promo's post)
"V3 give's me variety; though I tend to stick close to one or two of my favorite characters"
And yes, I do own V4 and all of  her bags...but I still prefer to use V3 

I still prefer V3 by a mile; I think she's far more realistic looking, has a better variety of looks and a better base body form to work with. I still search for and by content for V3. Plenty of life left in the old gal yet.

I just can't warm up to V4; I think she looks too anime/cartoonish by default, most of the characters for her all look alike and she has some sort of weird  plastic/rubbery look to me (like a digital Bratz doll). Not to mention,  the eyes...I can ever seem to shake that 1000 yard stare look with her. And she's a resource pig.

Quote - > Quote - But seriosly, the rem inj system for V3 was good, dont understand why they discontinued it with V4.

I told you, they didn't.  These poses are available for each single morph and for all morphs in one file from DAZ, and by groups from my freebies.

If you read my post , it should be clear that i ment V4 not V4.2.
In the First Version of V4  there was no inj/rem.
V4.2 supports inj/rem as you sad.  But this is just a bunch of mixed everything without structure.
Still the detailed Stucture of the V3 inj/rem is much better.

I downloaded your "DAZ V4.2 Morphs++ Loader Poses". Thanks for providing that.
This helps a lot. Thats what i would have expected to be included in the daz V4.2 distribution.

greetings
xuu4u

Quote - and there you have it ! woot!

I've always liked V3. Wasn't there a chart someplace comparing real human anatomy to each of the mesh women ? With measurements, of the limbs, trunk, etc ?

I think the chart you might be talking about is a chart I saw yesterday...or day before....browsing the closing down Renderotica site. Someone rendered from the same angle all the personal bits of all the figures and from what I saw the most realistic anatomically were MayaDoll and Judy. I think the comparison was out of the box w/o any of the props and stuff available. Whatever.

You I noticed the same kine of thing when I started using the old but still well loved V2 and that is that all the face and body images of her looked the same no matter who rendered her in images. I have to say that I was convinced as I am convinced now that a lot of people just don't take the time to really learn the body and face morph/phenome dials.
I know almost all my renders of V2 show a different look and I have a lot of textures, freebies and bought and many I have rigged for personal use that contribute to the "Different" looks of the figures I render. If more folks took the time to learn and use the dials, working with both V3 and the "Plasticized" V4 the figures might look better and perhaps more realistic.

I for one have seen many renders with V4 that look marvelously life-like. I think it depends too on how she is rendered. The applications used also make a difference and the use of lights too does wonders. I loved the hefty V3 body structure...real B.S.H. (you either know what that means or you don't !).
The V4 body and face are more "waifish" and skinny though I have seen some awesome body morphs created for her. Her shoulders look so much better than V3 though and from what I have seen her joint parameters are also better.

Quote - > Quote - Ha!

I can beat that.
If I pile all the M4 morphs I have into one figure, he is a whopping 189mb in size.

M4 Base
M4 Morphs++
Hiro4
Ultra Morphs (RDNA)
M4 Enhanced.

Scary stuff, that...

LOL, ( i learned that at playing WOW)
reading that (above)  i could start to begin with how much did Micro**** pay to Da**D for making the files SOO Big :) knowing that behind MS are the Hdd-produers ....

But seriosly, the rem inj system for V3 was good, dont understand why they discontinued it
with V4.
What sense does it make to carry always every unneeded morph on board ?
this is as a backstep. (remembers me V2 : Victoria 2.cr2 20.8 Megs uncompressed)

There's no way in Poser to delete all unused moprhs in any kind of figure or prop.
Would be nice, if you know your scene is done (lets say final), to remove unneeded ballast.
Or better : create (combined) FBM's  for all props / figures in the scene NOW and delete all the other  morphs.
oh man, that could reduce the poser-used filespace for lightyears.
If you need the morphs again  for an  item, just reload it the item , or use morphmanager ....

hmm im not a poser pyhton guru, but  a script like 'Remove all Unused Morphs for Scene figures / props' should be possible :)

PhilC, ockham what do ya think ?
Or please correct me , if there is a way INSIDE Poser, does not mean walk throug every prop
figure body part and remove it by hand, becaus thats possible but a bit 'uhandy' and time consuming....

BTW: implement 'grouping' for morphgroups is easy, 
example: look for ABG's Stuff he provide that for V3 SAE in  simple .pz2

greetings
xuu4u

I am still using V2 in Poser 4 and I am pretty sure I have removed unused parameter dials from a figure by deleting those dials in the Hierarchy Editor. Would this be the same thing as removing channels or morphs?
If Poser 4 can do it why wouldn't the newer versions of Poser have the same capability?

I asked pretty much this same question on DAZ and everyone was complete opposite of people here saying that yes she is outdated and not worth using.

I've noticed recently that vendors have started skipping V3 altogether, making supported items for all the mil3 and now mil4 figures, but they seem to skip V3... I think that's odd considering she is practically an unofficial standard when it comes to Poser or DS.  I even asked a couple Vendors when V4 came out why they made things for V4, Mike3 and Aiko3, but not for Vicky3, (obviously before the new mil4 figures came out) the response was basically there was no need to

My problem is, since there is so much out there for V3, why didn't they just upgrade V3 with V4 options and morphs, but still keep the ability to use the same clothing?

I'm sure you V2 users were at the same point when V3 came out.  Now all the mil4 figures can use the same clothing and textures, I'm sure it wouldn't have been that hard to figure out

In the end I guess it boils down to one thing, money...

I don't know what you expected asking a question like that over at DAZ, it's a house organ for their products and it encourages very aggressive fanboy behavior, whether or not that's intended by the people who run it.

The Poser community, despite what many "Oldsters" remember it being when we first started here, is really a COMMERICAL community. DAZ is THE Big Puba of it all. It is a company and companies need to make money and they do it well creating and selling NEW CONTENT. For as long as there is a market for the stuff it will be availed us. When the demand goes down it will be phased out....like anything out in the open market.

The Poser community is in itself a ravenous community which is hell bent on the "Feeding Frenzy" for the Newest and Greatest that is available....irregardless of the cost. It seesm sometimes especially on some sites, that there is a competition of who can get the newest and greates offerings in their render and posted first. Sheesh!  :(

If you are on a Windows machine you are at a real advantage because there are applications made for you that will allow you to convert some of these items to work with other figures. I am not so fortunate being on a Mac.

I can tell you it COSTS a lot to constantly munch on something new DAZ and others spoon out to us. After years of dishing out cash for all this STUFF I can no longer do it. I have so much stuff for Poser both purchased and freebies, I will never be able to use it all in whatever is left of my stupid Poser addicted life!
It seems if you are happy with whatever you got...just keep using it. If you like stuff that is still available out there for V3...GET IT NOW...before the vendors faze it out by removing it from the stores.

It is too bad they do that. Despite the GRANDE investment made on all the DAZ conclavve of products up to Mike4 (which I will not spend money on and that is final!) I am still using V2. Got a lot of stuff for her and there were some brilliant clothing items available back when she was "The Premiere" Ticket item I wish I had gotten then.
Now they are no longer available. You would think the vendors would archive that stuff and make it available for dumb sods like me who remembering it wants to get and sell it to us at a fair "Close out" discount bargain bin price. That'll never happen.
I found many V2 items still available at RuntimeDNA..Thanks for that guys!
But anything here at Renderosity or DAZ is Gone the way of the Dodo Bird...of which I am strongly relating to!  LOL

Quote - The Poser community, despite what many "Oldsters" remember it being when we first started here, is really a COMMERICAL community. DAZ is THE Big Puba of it all. It is a company and companies need to make money and they do it well creating and selling NEW CONTENT. For as long as there is a market for the stuff it will be availed us. When the demand goes down it will be phased out....like anything out in the open market.

The Poser community is in itself a ravenous community which is hell bent on the "Feeding Frenzy" for the Newest and Greatest that is available....irregardless of the cost. It seesm sometimes especially on some sites, that there is a competition of who can get the newest and greates offerings in their render and posted first. Sheesh!  :(

If you are on a Windows machine you are at a real advantage because there are applications made for you that will allow you to convert some of these items to work with other figures. I am not so fortunate being on a Mac.

I can tell you it COSTS a lot to constantly munch on something new DAZ and others spoon out to us. After years of dishing out cash for all this STUFF I can no longer do it. I have so much stuff for Poser both purchased and freebies, I will never be able to use it all in whatever is left of my stupid Poser addicted life!
It seems if you are happy with whatever you got...just keep using it. If you like stuff that is still available out there for V3...GET IT NOW...before the vendors faze it out by removing it from the stores.

It is too bad they do that. Despite the GRANDE investment made on all the DAZ conclavve of products up to Mike4 (which I will not spend money on and that is final!) I am still using V2. Got a lot of stuff for her and there were some brilliant clothing items available back when she was "The Premiere" Ticket item I wish I had gotten then.
Now they are no longer available. You would think the vendors would archive that stuff and make it available for dumb sods like me who remembering it wants to get and sell it to us at a fair "Close out" discount bargain bin price. That'll never happen.
I found many V2 items still available at RuntimeDNA..Thanks for that guys!
But anything here at Renderosity or DAZ is Gone the way of the Dodo Bird...of which I am strongly relating to!  LOL

I hear you on that. I don't understand why more vendors don't make some older content available to those who want it; the cost of doing so I would think would be minor. I view the "old" figures as being other options, not something that needs to be replaced. Just because V2 or V3 are "old" does not mean they need to be replaced.

Quote -
I hear you on that. I don't understand why more vendors don't make some older content available to those who want it; the cost of doing so I would think would be minor. I view the "old" figures as being other options, not something that needs to be replaced. Just because V2 or V3 are "old" does not mean they need to be replaced.

Probably something akin to Planned Obsolescence, the same reason you can rarely find VHS tapes in stores anymore.

Technology is a perfect example though for me as much as I use it I despise it too and for the same reason I despise anything that prompts me to lay aside something good and functional to be replaced by some other thing....that is not as well made but touts all the "NEW" bells and whistles.
You will get those that argue that yeah but look how much easier it makes your life and look how much better this makes that seem of work or....whatever.
Forced Obsolescence is only good for creating and  promoting existing jobs.
As much as I can agree with the notion of all the new stuff making my life easier......I still dream of of having only 3 or 4 TV channel choices and of the fun I had not finding anything interesting on the boob tube, went out and had some real fun doing real things in the real world instead of laying like a dead walrus married to the remote scanning hundreds of useless cable channels wondering why my life sucks! I can't begin to describe the joy of going to a real night club or to a real party where real people met others instead of spending hours sitting at my damn computer at "Social Gather" web sites chatting with Jack The Ripper or Cross Eyed Mary wondering how they would like to someday meet for coffee.
I can't begin to describe the hours I worked in the darkroom getting a black and white print "Just Right" , or the hours, high on some great illegal substance or other and totally focused, I worked an image on illustration board with my Rapid-O-Graph pens and going "AHHH" when sober or straight I saw the real fruits of those efforts. . I still have ALL those images, BTW...for all the obsolescence of the technology used to create them. yet I can't begin to tell you how many valuable digitally created images i have lost because of this damn "Impermanent" and freaking fickle technology..and NO MATTER HOW I HAVE BACKED UP STUFF...or tried.  :(

We can't go back to the past but I sure hate looking forward to the future thinking how much more simple and effortless and "throw-Away", lonely, empty and valueless  my life will become.  :(

Quote - My problem is, since there is so much out there for V3, why didn't they just upgrade V3 with V4 options and morphs, but still keep the ability to use the same clothing?

I'm sure you V2 users were at the same point when V3 came out.  Now all the mil4 figures can use the same clothing and textures, I'm sure it wouldn't have been that hard to figure out

In the end I guess it boils down to one thing, money...

V4 is rigged completely different than V3. For V3 Clothing to work on V4, it would have to be updated with V4's new rigging.

Coldrake

Isn't there an application that remaps say V3 conforming clothes etc to fit other characters like V4?

Quote - Isn't there an application that remaps say V3 conforming clothes etc to fit other characters like V4?

Several; Wardrobe Wizard, Crossdresser, etc. In fact, I use them a lot to turn V4 stuff to V3.

its funny that you all are like me and feel that just because a newer figure is available, doesn't mean i and others like you quite using the older figures, which is why as a vendor i tryed to share some textures for v3 items that i had created for some of my images. and when submited got told no thanks that won't sell good enough here, we don't want it......
so after several attempts and getting turned down after all the work that goes into making and paking up the stuff just right for submiting .........i gave up and have moved on from being a vendor here. i no longer offer stuff to rosity marketplace. but am a vendor somewhere else. that will take my stuff even if i only make one or two sells from the item,
at least then i know someone out there enjoyed it.
netta

"Bnetta; I'm always looking for items for V3"
Please drop me a link if you can; and if anyone else knows of other places to buy from, could you also send me a link.

We bash DAZ  but in many ways they even worse here.
All about the bidbness...and what hurts to say, I can truly understand it... I hate it, but I understand it.

free for you v3 lovers

download here
oodlesdoodles.com/downloads/freeproduct/od-sunflowersv3.zip

Oh Wow. This is very sweet, Though I am still in V2 spiral I do have thousands of items for V3 and will add this to the obsessive collection. Lovely piece too. I take it this was refused here in the store!?  :(

I have been motirored this thread with interest.
However I feel that V4 is the newer one the characters look to some extend like each other.
In the real life you get a variety of women and even the beatiful ones may have something that makes them less perfect and much more attractive.
For example if I tka a photograph of a person from front and I split it in two:
If i mirror the left and attach the left to the left mirror and I mirror the right and attach the right to the right mirror, I get two new photographs of the same person, but noticeable different. The reason is that our left and right side of our faces are different. You don't get this in V4. They just strive to get the perfect woman (Face) - I am not even going to the body.
Normally teeth is also less than perfect in people as well as th eyes.
I feel V3 better simulate this as some of the figures are less than doll-like and more natural.

Clothing is not a problem as there are some converting utilities that do convert clothing of V2 or V4 to V3.