Quick question: Castle Poser doesn't cover color_math nodes: is the behaviour the same as math_function nodes? There's a really nice graph-based explanation here on the math_function nodes.

I can see in order to understand these shaders I'm just going to have to get into the maths a bit.
Dang.

Quote - Quick question: Castle Poser doesn't cover color_math nodes: is the behaviour the same as math_function nodes? There's a really nice graph-based explanation here on the math_function nodes.

I can see in order to understand these shaders I'm just going to have to get into the maths a bit.
Dang.

The Color_Math node is the same as a Math_Node function by function. The difference is that a color is actually 3 numbers, one each for red, green, and blue. Any of the math functions is applied to all 3 values simulatenously and independently. Thus, a Color_Math is identical to 3 individual Math_Nodes working in parallel.

So you like those graphs, do you? Did you know they were generated not with some scientific graphic software, but with Poser itself? Yep each of those graphs is actually the output of a special shader, applied to a one-sided square. Do you know where that shader came from? Me.

Click here to see the original thread about these graphs, and how to make your own in Poser.

Matmatic gurus - graph your functions fast by bagginsbill on 11/01/06

You need to be able to visualize what math functions do in order to manipulate them in your head. Many things you'll try in the material room will not be possible to visualize until the last step. That means if you can only visualize colors and gray-scale images, you cannot understand what happens to math functions beyond the range of zero to one. We can show numbers between 0 and 1 on the screen, and that's really great. But a lot of math involves numbers below 0 or above 1 at times. If you can't keep track of what's happening, then any shaders involving such numbers is forever out of your reach.

I've been thinking for many weeks about this magical range of 0 to 1. Every image we see is in that range. Most of the effects you want to do are in that range. This unit range is really really important and understanding how all the math functions operate in this range is also really important. It comes up so often that I've been trying to come up with some names we can use to refer to this range and the functions that operate on it, and a particular set of functions that have certain specific characteristics. The obvious name for this range of numbers is the Unit Range, or UR.

While almost all math functions can operate on numbers beyond UR, the most important thing you need to understand is what happens within UR.

Let's call the really important functions a BUFF, for now. (Baggins' Unitrange Favorite Functions)

Here is an example of an interesting things about a BUFF.

For all x in UR, BUFF(x) is in UR.

This means that for any input value in the unit range 0 to 1, the output of the function is also in the unit range 0 to 1. If you were to graph the function, it would never go outside the unit range 2-D square between 0 and 1. Why is this important? Because you can string any number of these together and you KNOW that the result is still within UR. This is very handy for thinking about long chains of nodes.

There are other interesting behaviors that are not universal. These further break down the universe of BUFFs. An example:

f(0) = 0, f(1) = 1

Another very important behavior. It says that when the input is 0 or 1, the output is also 0 or 1. Why is this important? Because I know that I'm preserving the full range of the input. I may bend the in-between values up or down in various ways, but 0 is still 0 and 1 is still 1. Bias and Gain do this and they are incredibly useful. There are many other functions made of individual or combinations of nodes that do this.

This is just a small introduction to the incredibly rich world of mathematical functions as used in shaders. To really understand even these two points I've given, I'd have to write at least 10 pages of text and accompanying images.

Have you heard of the 10,000 hour phenomenon? I've encountered it several times in reading about excellence. Currenly I'm reading "Outliers - The Story of Success" by Malcolm Gladwell. Chapter two talks about the 10,000 hour rule.

"The emerging picture from such studies is that ten thousand hours of practice is required to achieve the level of mastery associated with being a world-class expert - in anything. In writers, ice skaters, concert pianists, chess players, master criminals, and what have you, this number comes up again and again. No one has yet found a case in which true world-class expertise was accomplished in less time. It seems that it takes the brain this long to assimilate all that it needs to know to achieve true mastery."

I say this not to discourage but to encourage. You must practice with nodes. Really. I figure I've only got about 3000 hours logged working with shaders. I have a long way to go, yet most people around here consider me an expert. I'm not an expert - yet. Nor am I truly a gifted or talented genius. I am above average in intelligence, but the real reason I can do this so well is because I practice it constantly.

Acadia and I had a similar thread a while back. I keep saying, you have to try and study and experiment and build a model in your head so you can predict what will happen. Only then can you imagine an effect and then head straight for a node-based solution.

i have to say i totally agree with bagginsbill, and he put it much more cogently than i had tried to.  i think the thing to keep in mind as you learn stuff and explore it on your own, that when you're testing specifics you think about generalities. 

the subtract node's properties are in the manual.  what you want is to have a feel for how to use it, and as bagginsbill has said, that isn't something any one can just tell you.  you have to learn it. what helps is coming up with problems, and then finding solutions.  you can have totally different solutions, and come up with similar answers.  even if they're not the most efficient or even most general, they can help lots of people.

just speaking as someone who has followed bagginsbill's works for a few years now, i think you should be proud of your explorations.  even when you're wrong, you learn a lot.  i'm too embarassed to share my own efforts, but i know i should be more open.  and from watching what you've posted, i don't think you should find your path easier or quicker.  as they say in one of my favorite toons, "there's no shortcut, no trickity trick, you just have to meet it head on." 

and the big thing you can keep in mind to sort of give you some boundaries is a focus on what you want to do.  one reason i end up exploring a lot on my own is that i like two extremes of lighting, and to do lighting very specific to my scenes.  i've started making my own props, finding my own references, so i have more and more specific interests.  i've got a small library of materials that combine parts of what i've learned from bagginsbill, my own experiments and other random stuff people have talked about.  you don't have to be bagginsbill; your experiments don't have to be general.  they can be for a specific image.  but i guess you know that since you've already started a learning community.

Yep, I can see that now, CobaltDream and BagginsBill... no short-cuts. Those pages I referred to earlier will be the result of my little lab. Not an authorative study by any means... a bit higglety-pigglety, with an obvious primary objective to understanding that first shader you gave away with VSS, which is a work of art, the more I study it, and that's all I've been doing... obsessing about it, really. I'm on holidays from my job as a nurse, so I can devote hours and hours of study, which is exactly what I'm doing. Of course, ya gotta do a bit of the family thing, but for the most part I'm a bit of a recluse, so I can indlge myself in time studying this.

Bill, the UR and the BUFF() and f(0)=0 / f(1)=1 principles make perfect sense - theoretically. I'm thick, so I have to see how those principles apply to real-life situations. Hence my little test lab. I'm actually using a node (say, spots) which behaviour I've sorta got sorted out (still a bit more playing to do there!) and then connecting another spots node with a math_function Add. Render. Change one value in the Add node. Render... and so forth. Do the same for subtract. look at the graph for Add and follow it out in the increments whoever wrote that into to that page (was that you as well??) suggested.

Sound like a reasonable approach?

It took obsessing about it for me to get my head around VB... now, it's intuitive. This challenge is a bit different: no manuals. Gotta make my own.

Oh, BTW, may I mention your name on those pages? I want to give credit where it's due. If you have an issue with that, however, I won't.

I didn't read your pages yet - too busy with Holiday making, i.e. playing with toys (new camera) and family and dog. But I glanced at them. You said you removed quotes of mine - why? I'm not going to complain if you quote me.

This is something strange I've seen mentioned before. Seems to me whatever I post in a public forum is something I want publicized. Why would I not want you to quote me - especially since I end up quoting myself and explaining the same things over and over. I'd much prefer it if you quoted me and explained it. hehehe

I really think you want to learn to see a graph and grasp what that means. In other words, if you're not good at reading graphs, it means you need to practice reading graphs. Then you will accelerate your learning of functions.

I got my new Nikon D90 SLR. Of course you can take great pictures with a pocket camera, but the odds of doing so in a given amount of time is smaller than with the big, fast SLR. In two days, I've shot over 400 pictures. This is the best one. My dog, Ricky, enjoying one of his Christmas presents.

I've cropped and reduced it for posting in this forum. Click for full size.

Quote - I didn't read your pages yet - too busy with Holiday making, i.e. playing with toys (new camera) and family and dog. But I glanced at them. You said you removed quotes of mine - why? I'm not going to complain if you quote me.

This is something strange I've seen mentioned before. Seems to me whatever I post in a public forum is something I want publicized. Why would I not want you to quote me - especially since I end up quoting myself and explaining the same things over and over. I'd much prefer it if you quoted me and explained it. hehehe

I'm happy to quote you Bill, if only to lend some credibility to those pages... however, there are those who take serious offence to being quoted without permission and would start legal proceedings... which our poor little site can't afford... so I kinda tiptoed away from that. I'll be delighted to put them back, though! And thank you so much - it's very generous of you to help me with this project as much as you have!!

What a lovely dog, Bill... he's only a puppie, still, isn't he?

Looks like Santa was as good to him as to you... good ON ya! Sounds like a nice camera!!

Quote - This is totally off-topic but whatever. It's the excuse why I'm not responding to Poser too much.

I got my new Nikon D90 SLR. Of course you can take great pictures with a pocket camera, but the odds of doing so in a given amount of time is smaller than with the big, fast SLR. In two days, I've shot over 400 pictures. This is the best one. My dog, Ricky, enjoying one of his Christmas presents.

I've cropped and reduced it for posting in this forum. Click for full size.

oh looks like a dog I used to have (miss her dearly). Is it a cattle collie and border collie mix by chance?

Border collie? Are you an Aussie, General Nutt? Aren' them ones only here?

Brilliant dogs, those border collies... we went to the Great Australian Outback Spectacular which for the most part was a bit over the top, but the horses were lovely, and the collie stole the show!

Quote - Border collie? Are you an Aussie, General Nutt? Aren' them ones only here?

Brilliant dogs, those border collies... we went to the Great Australian Outback Spectacular which for the most part was a bit over the top, but the horses were lovely, and the collie stole the show!

Nope, I am Canadian. I've seen many border collies in action, and they all seem pretty smart. Mine was no exception, she was sharp as a whip. Amazing to see she was never near a farm but instinctively would round things up, other dogs, children and even drunks. I would hazard a guess they would be popular where ever there are range animals. She was great with young kids, super patient, never snapped. She did shed constantly though.

Oh, one thing she never ever learned... To stop chasing skunks. But hey we all have our weaknesses right?  

I have a question regarding gamma correction. I know that VSS has gamma correction integrated, but what do I do about the materials I use on props? What's the best way to correct the gamma level of various material shaders? They don't have a texture to apply the gamma correction to.

Attached Link: "Artistic" Lens

Baggins Bill, do you recognize Kelvin's Shirt texture?

Mabe a bit bright, but not bad in my eyes.

Well, I've made a start with my node experiments, folks. Sheesh, there's a lot to know, a lot to explore. There are so many variables to consider, and of course...

Diffuse Color: The Diffuse_Color attribute is the surface color that is multiplied
through any light striking the object.
Diffuse Value: The Diffuse_Value attribute defines the strength of the diffuse color,
where 1=100%.

...doesn't say anything about the fact that ...

that plugging into the Diffuse_Color means that it is going through a Diffuse node as well... that the general idea is if you want standard Diffuse and Specular nodes - you don't need to add any nodes at all. Those two are built into the Poser Surface.

...or, I can't infer that. What else must one find out through experiments? I'll soon find out!

Good luck.  Looks like this is going to keep you occupied for awhile.  Not to mention that someone else here at the forum has created a node set to apply mud to a texture.  Think you better get hopping.

 I read here a way to have a hair prop included in the synchronizing but I'm not able to get it to work.
I have tried it not parented, selected and running the synchronize but it refuses. 
What am I doing wrong?

You would have to setup the conditions in the material room first.  As the VSS prop stands now, without specifying any particular model, it will synchronize all the models and props in your scene.

I solved it by copying the human figure skin shader to the hair, changing the texture map, adding transmap and copying it to all parts of the hair prop. Works! But may not be the prettiest way of doing it. 

Hair is a prop, right? VSS by default does not apply to props. You have to go into the "Apply Rules" material and add a Rule to include the hair prop in its calculations. Then you also need to go into the "Shader Rules" and add rule(s) to handle the material zone(s) of the hair prop.

Finally, due to a bug, the hair must be un-parented during synchronization.

I need to get back to work on the VSS user interface so you can skip all those stupid nodes. By re-purposing nodes as rules, I was able to avoid the need for UI, but it's a tedious solution. The Flex/Flash-based user interface I'm building will be much easier.

Attached Link: http://www.runtimedna.com/mod/forum/messages.php?ShowMessage=265148

Oooh - I did see that post over the holidays, but I was in Poser shutdown mode. (I just wanted to play with my new camera) and I forgot to reply.

Let me look into it.

Click for full size - it's worth it.

Did you update VSS to add goose bumps or did that bump map come with GND4?

Quote - Sorry - still didn't look into matmatic. Had to try out my new GND4.

Click for full size - it's worth it.

For god's sake, some one please give that girl a hamburger!

But, awesome render!

Quote -
For god's sake, some one please give that girl a hamburger!

But, awesome render!

And a giant size chocolate milkshake to wash those burgers down with!

GADS!!!! That is some render, BB. Where did you get the GND4? at DAZ?

No need to go that far, just follow that link.....

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=63124&vendor=11343

Blackhearted sells his stuff here at Renderosity.

Quote -
And a giant size chocolate milkshake to wash those burgers down with!

And a couple of weeks of movie watching in the sofa and lots of potatoe chips and dips! :thumbupboth:

Quote -  Where did you get the GND4? at DAZ? 

You can find her [HERE

](http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=63124&)bantha beat me to it.

Ya that is one skinny 3d girl for sure.

I did get her here at Rendo, on sale! Since I just happened to have a $25 gift certificate and she's $25 I had to do it.

That is totally the bump map that comes with her. I love her maps - they are excellent.

Notice the lips? That is a lip mask that she comes with - I did the VSS lipstick thing with it. She also comes with a freckle mask (full body) and specular maps. It's like she was made to be used with VSS and my shaders.

I just noticed the veins near her shoulders. That's something I wish more texture artists did. Though on a girl as skinny and pale as GND4, they should also be visible on her chest (where her sternum is poking out) and on the tops of her legs, near where they meet the pelvis. It's still some of the best texture work out there for Poser though.

Okay I must have missed it where is this "Versatile Shader System ":)

This takes Poser to a whole new level."Outstanding"

 Yes, Blackheartes's stuff is incredible well done. I do have most of his girls, even the ones which are no longer available, and they are all great.

@Artistheat:
[http://poserbagginsbill.googlepages.com/vsshomepage

](http://poserbagginsbill.googlepages.com/vsshomepage)

Is that how it applied? Some of it worked and some didn't? Or did you go manually fix some?

When you run VSS on a figure first time, it studies how the image maps in the existing materials are wired up. For Image_Map nodes that are not explicitly named, It tried to guess what they are for from how they are used. For example, if an image map is plugged into DIffuse_Color or Alternate_Diffuse on the root node or plugged into some other node that eventually plugs into the root node Diffuse_Color or Alternate_Diffuse, then it will assume that is a Color Map. It will then rename that Image_Map node to be Color Map. That image will be used where the template says the Color Map is supposed to go.

So this boils down to what the pre-VSS shader looks like, and/or what image maps have names if any.

Once it has run, the shader is now replaced with the VSS template shader. So the next time you synchronize, it will already know (from the previous run) how it mapped the images.

If it made a mistake, you can go into each material zone that is broken, and correct the files associated with the Color Map, Bump Map, etc. After that it should work correctly.

When I go to the Material Room and select the white areas, the Color Map Image_Source is set to None. When I input the limbs texture file, everything renders correctly. I'm just wondering how I should modify the script or the limbs texture file name so that VSS recognizes the file.

OK This is may get confusing.

VSS did not stick that torso file in there. Notice it isn't connected to anything? And it doesn't have a name, it's just called Image_Map_2?

That means that for whatever reason, the Image_Map was already there BEFORE you synchronized, VSS didn't know what to do with it, so it left it there. I have it do that specifically for situations where it is confused, and needs your help. You will find unused image maps laying around.

When you synchronize, VSS looks over the target material zone. It studies all the images, and decides which of those it is going to plug into the template. If it finds images it doesn't know what to do with, it leaves them there. All other pre-existing nodes are deleted. Then the nodes from the template are copied over, and then filenames plugged in from what it learned.

It would be helpful to start over, and show me what the shader is that's there before you synchronize.

I think I see another leftover Image_Map hiding up near the Specular_Value channel, under Math_Functions_6. What is that?

I also noticed that it looks like the VSS bump map node recognizes the bump map, but doesn't plug itself in.

Wow that's some wacky stuff going on there. I'm really curious about what was in there before you synchronized.

For it to detect the bump but not connect it is - unthinkable.

Have you tried exiting Poser and starting it up again? I'm wondering if something is trashed in memory. After starting over, does it do the same thing? If so show me the before/after material.

Also, I'd like to see the before/after on a material that behaves correctly on the same figure.

Still lots of unconnected nodes left over from the base mat pose.

Interestingly, it grabbed the correct bump map file. The color map is still empty though.

Aha!

It's those bogus disconnected node networks. One of them has an image map called Color_Texture and the file is None!

That's the problem. See, a lot of shaders made by other people have the Image_Map that holds the color map specifically named "Color_Texture". In VSS, any image that is named that way is automatically identified as the source of the Color Map. So there's the problem.

Get rid of those.

Quote - Oddly, it behaved slightly different this time, with the Simple Color node being filled in with a fleshy reddish brown color and the bump nodes being connected on all of the limbs.

Well we've seen that the starting shader is sloppy, so I suspect that some of them were always "None" and some of them were set to something and then set back to None.

Depending on which version of Poser was used to make those, the representation of "None" is sometimes incorrect, which means that VSS might be seeing a real "None" on some, and a fake "None" that looks like a filename on others. That would explain why some bypassed the Image in favor of simple color, and others didn't.

VSS has a rule that when copying over the shader, if it cannot put a filename into an image_Map node, it will use the value of the "Background" attribute. I loaded that fleshy color in there as a default. But it only gets applied if VSS can figure out that you have no color map to use. Clearly here we've got some of those that look like they aren't empty even though they are.

Attached Link: http://www.runtimedna.com/mod/forum/messages.php?ShowMessage=265148

I got it sorted out. Go back to that thread (the original one at RDNA) to see how I fixed it. You just need to change a couple parameters on the loom. Pretty simple.

Rendered in Poser Pro with GC enabled.

Well, I ended up just inputting the texture file into the Color Map node, deleting the leftovers from the base mat pose and saving it as a mat file, then applying it to each area that was missing the texture. I'll try my hand at making a mat pose so that it will apply the necessary textures with all of the VSS nodes in place to the whole figure at once, effectively replacing the original mat pose and saving me the step of loading the VSS script controls and synchronizing.