Every time a new innovative 3rd party feature becomes so popular it becomes a "can't do without" addon, both adobe (makers of Photoshop) and Autodesk (makers of 3ds Max) buy up that company and spin the new feature into their latest up grade.

It seems to me that the new acquisitioners of Poser - SmithMicro - could do the same. Sure we all have a wish list of things that we would like Poser to do. But one area they have been lagging behind is content creator support.

Why do we need an external .cr2, .pz2 editors to strip out redundant materials and bones or create ERC morphs. Shouldn't we have a utility by now within Poser that can do this?

Why do I mention this? Well, D|S has made enormous leaps to catch up to Poser and its free. To justify its pricing, SmithMicro must do something more shouldn't it? Shouldn't they make content creation accessible to the rest of us? I'm pretty adept at creating models, UV unwrapping them, creating textures in Photoshop and what-not. But my goodness, trying to create conforming clothing for the myriad of characters available to Poser has proven to be an enormous undertaking.

The Setup room was very useful but it is still lacking in a number of areas. The Setup room is the perfect place to put all these new features. I don't know, maybe Python scripts can handle it but I'm no programmer. I like dials and sliders and buttons. I like the virtual tactile feeling of an attractive GUI.

I made a pair of pants for Simon in C4D or Lightwave or Maya or Max or Rhino or Blender or Wings. Export as an obj and import into Poser. Go to the Setup room and click > Make Conforming object Menu and select Simon. Poser analyzes the geometry and selects the best zones based on the matching nomenclature from the originating modeling app. Viola! Conforming pants that require minor joint editing tweaking and Bob's yer uncle.

Sorry for this long winded thread.

Poser definitely needs some of those must haves.  I really think that it should ship with some sort of simple subdivision modeler and UV unwrapper as well.  I'm also of the opinion that it is lacking in the number of characters and props that come with it.  For example some more clothing figures and hair for the G2 characters would have been nice.

Well this is my point. Since it doesn't ship with more, Poser is kind of saying, "we want you to create your own". Well if that's the case, then give us the tools to make them. Tools that are as easy to use as Poser figures themselves.

just to add that some of 'em can be a bit tetchy when autodesk is mentioned
in conjunction with poser.  however, as the beta testers aren't saying anything
yet, we shall await with interest what new features are included in poser 8.

some of 'em can be a bit tetchy when autodesk is mentioned

I don't understand???

last year some of 'em were worried that if autodesk bought poser, they would
increase the price a bit.  however, no news on any planned purchase of poser
by autodesk.

It is amazing how fast "Morphing Clothes" utility can translate morphs from a figure to a garment.  I mean, literally, all of V4's body morpohs, with Elite and A4, Muscle, etc, to another cr2 in about 2 seconds. 

That's something Poser should just learn how to do on the fly, so the only morphs needed in a stored cr2 of clothing would be custom spawned stuff or things that just couldn't handle.

IMO, Poser has been in development hell for a long time and hasn't been in the hands of a company to really give it justice.  Unfortunately, I see Poser's future as being tossed around from one bought-out company to the next until the final version is purchased by a company that has no intention of issuing any updates.  Unlike gaming consoles (Wii, Playstation, etc), there is no real competition in the 3D hobbiest market to spur further development.

 I have noticed the programs don't really deviate from their original purpose...much. Poser was created to be a artist's reference for humanoid figures and its (current) functionality seems to reflect that (original) vision - albeit with a powerful material room.

Maya user here - Maya was created to be highly extensible and comprehensive. My point here is that their intended uses are diametrically opposed. I believe that if you really need more, you could "graduate" from Poser into something else. I keep hearing that Cinema4  / InterPoser is the best way to use Poser content outside of Poser - while maintaining the ability to use....modules that aren't included in Poser. 

One simple thing thing that they could do would be to build in a version of Morph Manager, so that one could easily transfer morphs between different figures that use the same mesh, -also Cr2 Editor.
DPH

I'm not sure about this subject.

First of all, the entire Setup room business. Yes, content developers need something to rig their figures. But most Poser users never venture into the Setup room. Adding these featuers to Poser would make the program more expensive, and thus less attractive to the hobbyist market.

Stripping the Setup room out of Poser, and making a standalone Poser rigging tool would make sense to me. Content developers would buy the rigging tool, while straight users can do very well without. Might be a feasible route to keep the base Poser application affordable.

On the other hand, the rigging tool would need most of the functionality that's already present in Poser. It would need additional functionality as found in Morph Manager, Injection Magic, CR2Builder and a few others though.

Maybe creating a Poser Developer version would be an idea? Poser 8 Standard for the regular end user, Poser 8 Pro for those who want to integrate Poser with high end apps, Poser 8 Developer for content creators? Just a thought...

And again I state that exposing the full functionality of Poser to PoserPython, leaving NOTHING out, plus the ability to assign Poser scripts to buttons in a more traditional user interface, would go a very long way. If Smith Micro doesn't want to buy out or develop the required rigging features themselves, they should enable Python scripters to build them instead.

As long as people are willing to pay.  It will raise Poser's price considerably and I doubt many people will buy Poser if the price get's too high. They already have problems selling the newer versions of Poser for the price asked and if they follow this tactic, sales may be even less.

On the other hand, if functionality improves, others may become more interested Poser, but it's a gamble.

For now, I doubt Smith Micro will make such moves, to them Poser first has to prove to be a good investment and I seriously doubt has proven to be such a good investment until now. At this point we don't even know for sure if version 8 will even be released at all. There have been rumors that it's in development, but do we even know that for sure?

There is an addon that does what you are looking for by PhilC it is called obj2cr2, it's not a one button fix and there are some minor issues with JPs but for what you get it is well worth it

It would be nice to see it integrated into Poser in the future say in the setup room though.

Maybe not those two companies, but in the past with other "plug-ins" or supplimental programs, they have been bought up and put into "the main program". This means that in the past you may have been able to use that software with a slightly older version, but you then find that the only way to purchase it is to buy a whole program that you don't really need.
I think that supplimental programs can be better, as the manufacturer often creates or allows the creation of importers/ exporters that can be used with other programs. If say Smith Micro bought something up and included it as part of Poser, then that would was likely prevent the use of it with other programs. Also to stay in business, smaller companies and individuals tend to improve and update their software all of the time, many fof the upgrades for free. If someone like Smith Micro bought up the software, then you would have to wait two or three years for the whole program to be updated (not including fixes), and they would charge for it.
In a time where software companies seem to sell us software that that has not even been beta tested properly before it is released, I think that I would rather pay a smaller amount for a supplimental program that if the is a fault, you can report it, and it actually gets sorted quickly, than a program that is supposed to do everything but is useless because of a few faults that take ages to fix.

Like alot of people I got my first copy of Poser free on a magazine cover then later bought the upgrade. I used to do the Same with Flash when it was owned by Macromedia. As far as I know Adobe no longer release an older version for free or at a reduced rate like Smith Micro did recently with Poser 6. How are they going to attract new users into the fold? If you are just starting out with something, you may not want to pay hundreds or even thousands of pounds. Many might not care about having the latest version.

Once Adobe bought Flash, I stopped upgrading and stopped using it. Partly due to the extorionate price differences of some of their other software from country to country. When I wanted to buy Adobe After Effects a few years ago, I found that even taking into account the exchange rate and VAT, that it would still cost me over twice the amount of what it would cost someone in America to buy it.! So two fingers up to Adobe. Autodesk could be heading the same way with their current trend of buying up every piece of software under the sun.

Once Adobe bought Flash, I stopped upgrading and stopped using it. Partly due to the extorionate price differences of some of their other software from country to country. When I wanted to buy Adobe After Effects a few years ago, I found that even taking into account the exchange rate and VAT, that it would still cost me over twice the amount of what it would cost someone in America to buy it.! So two fingers up to Adobe.

There was an article about this in 3Dworld 108. A big bitch article on how Brits and Europeans are hosed on the prices of highend 3D apps.

It's not only high end 3D apps. Somehow, many US companies charge non-US customers extra. Adobe does it, Apple does it, publishers do it, carmakers do it, many others do it.
For some items, shipping and handling is a valid reason to increase prices - shipping a book from the US to Europe is definitely more expensive than shipping it locally. But for downloadable software actual shipping and handling costs are exactly the same for every customer around the world.
Export fees may apply, differences in VAT do apply, exchange rates do apply. Take all that into account, and you'll find that some companies put 25%-50% more money in their coffers when they sell to a non-US customer...

I've never understood why. A product is a product, I don't believe there's any difference between Photoshop CS4 as sold to a US citizen and Photoshop CS4 sold to a Brit, so there also should be no difference in the net profit Adobe makes from both sales.

Quote -

There was an article about this in 3Dworld 108. A big bitch article on how Brits and Europeans are hosed on the prices of highend 3D apps.

Are they really "hosed"? The typical defense to that is if a 3D package pays for itself with one or two jobs, even if you have to pay full price every year for an upgrade or a subscription, it's worth it. I'd tend to agree.
People pay comparatively appropriate amounts of money for their "tools of the trade", no matter what kind of work they're in, particularly if it's something high tech.

sdvl, some of those cost increases could be hidden taxes the country you are shipping it to puts on software.  Some countries have absurdly high taxes on imports.

One more thing: to the people who say adding features will dramatically increase cost, that isn't necessarily true.  If poser became attractive to more people and a lot more people ended up buying it, then they'd be able to get away with adding more.  However they didn't even bother to add a good set of default lights to poser 7.  That would have taken someone who knew lighting 5-10 minutes to achieve.

I can only speak for the Netherlands - there are no such "hidden taxes". There are taxes, certainly, import fees, VAT, but they're well documented. I've done those calculations, and still it means that an Apple computer sold in he Netherlands gives 10% more profit to Apple than the same machine sold in the US. And Adobe makes almost 30% more on a license of Photoshop CS4 sold in the Netherlands than on one sold in the US. I DID include the import fees in the calculations.

When it comes to hardware or software imported from non-US countries, the story is far different. A US citizen pays the same amount for a Taiwanese mainboard as a Dutch citizen (excluding VAT, of course).

MikeJ, the complaint was not about the prices of high end 3D software, the complaint was about the fact that as a Brit or EU citizen you pay almost twice as much for the same software than as a US citizen, a price difference that cannot be fully accounted for by import/export fees and VAT differences.

Quote -

MikeJ, the complaint was not about the prices of high end 3D software, the complaint was about the fact that as a Brit or EU citizen you pay almost twice as much for the same software than as a US citizen, a price difference that cannot be fully accounted for by import/export fees and VAT differences.

Oh, right, my bad.

In general I'm absolutely with svdl's opinion.

For sure there are lot's of things that might be integrated into poser.
But in front of adding "features" it would be a real big, big benefit if SM would resolve all that dozen ... hundred flaws that are shipped since versions. That alone would be worth a version level 7.75, right ?

To have such a poser developer version is a really good idea.

With building in all that tools lot's of highly motivated people are designing over the time, I have my own opinion. Been in software development for about 20 year I have a clear look to that thingies.

For example have a look to windows. Since version W95 MS has started to add/build in a lot of gadgets normally everyone is needing. But have a look to that, e.g. zipping, image viewing, small text edits, dvd burning ...  All that's in now, but for a (semi-)professional it's useless cause only appetizers with less functionality ... and developed at low cost they are mostly dangerous for amateurs.
So as also in the beginning with W31 you need to get all that third party tools like winzip, irfan view, textpad, only to name some of them.  These are tools with full functionality for a specific purpose ... AND the main point, they are build by people being experts on that theme and being highly motivated, let's say some sort of enthusiasts.
The outcome is in each view lot's better than the results by big company people doing that. They are determined by personal development plans, cost reductions and such things ... but rarely to high quality in details. So it is in reality, don't hear the manager's telling other word's. Every of us is knowing this.

So in my view it's really essential to have a stable core application with well defined interfaces. Then specialized people can build additional tools and maintain them in perfection.

So things SM has to learn, for example to avoid such a crap like pushing real CR2-files as PP2 into the props section or pushing OBJ-files in the library paths instead of the geometrie path (all happen with P6). And that'S only simple things.

See, the organization of poser files might not be the best or logical or such ... but it is like a standard. And that means it have to be reliable for the people ... users like also developers.
There can be improvements, surely, but it have to be transparent and continuing developement ... not something a new software developer is doing cause not knowing what he's doing ...

A all in one application might be the target ... but it will never came and it will not work well ... and it will be over prized in every view ...

E-onsoftware (Vue) used to overcharge non US citizens a lot also up to a 2 years ago. A large amount of European users boycotted E-On for thos practice, emailed them about this and after a month or so E-On changed the policy and now the amount paid is about the same everywhere.

As for taxes, I've noticed that as well, at times I pay taxes that don't even exsist or pay a higher percentage then it is in reality. 

Not to steal the whining light from you Europeans but we Canadians also pay higher prices for US products and we're right next door.

In fact a person living in Vancouver, right next door to Adobe's Washington State offices, pays more than some in New York City (4000 km) away.

We pay more for books, gas, magazines, software, hardware you name it. Even when the Canadian dollar briefly jumped higher than the USD, the prices were never adjusted.

We have the highest telecommunication rates in the world! But that has nothing to do with the US. That's Canadians screwing eachother.

That is not entirely true bandolin...books were adjusted...well we did at Wal-Mart anyway...not everywhere did that when we were par but we sold books at the US Price listed on the book.

Quote - Stripping the Setup room out of Poser, and making a standalone Poser rigging tool would make sense to me. Content developers would buy the rigging tool, while straight users can do very well without. Might be a feasible route to keep the base Poser application affordable.

I'm not really a fan of them taking anything out of Poser, and I don't believe it would lower the cost if they did.  Based on the fact that CP has a survey out about desired poser features, I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't another version out by the end of the year:
http://www.contentparadise.com/phpQ/fillsurvey.php?sid=66