If you check out Daz and RO market today, you'll see two incredibly similar hair models with different names made by the same team.

What's going on?  This incident  is the most puzzling, but I've noticed a similar phoenomenon time and time again:  "Hey, here's my new hair...I've taken my last model and de-centered the part and lengthened the back 2 clicks and given it a new name!"

The result of which we have 40 mid-length, straight hair models in the marketplace with a side part and their endless, identical texture packs.

Really???

I don't mention any names, and you can figure out the first example for yourself. 

I don't know about the rest of you, but I always EAGERLY await a realistic, morphable, versatile and (Key word coming) ORIGINAL hair product. 

You too?  What's going on???

Quote - If you check out Daz and RO market today, you'll see two incredibly similar hair models with different names made by the same team.

What's going on?  This incident  is the most puzzling, but I've noticed a similar phoenomenon time and time again:  "Hey, here's my new hair...I've taken my last model and de-centered the part and lengthened the back 2 clicks and given it a new name!"....

I'm not familiar with the product you're talking about but, I have noticed certain "trends" in some producer's products.

A lot of buyers don't really realize that electronic products are easy to rework and repackage as something "new."   When someone spends a few hours on making a basic foundation mesh they can then spend a few minutes making changes and repackage it as something different.

That is one reason why I wish these marketplaces would insist on at least ONE image of a lit wireframe of the model be on every product page.  But, if they did that, it would be very easy to spot many of the producers that are simply repacking meshes....

They're obviously different. One of them has a half cut fringe!

Maybe I'm missing something....maybe poser items have become Collectible?  Maybe this is the "Stormtrooper with Tatooine Dust" variant only sold at con?  I don't know...

Maybe they have learned from car builders industry ... one chassis, three engines, 5 interior styles plus packages = 26 different variants with different prices.
And if they are really good these comes with 2 brand names, e.g. Ford Galaxy and VW Shavan ...

I agree it's not nice but the outcome of so called modern economy ...

I am not keen on those sausage style long corkscrew "curls". Never was, never will be.
Every time I see another hair with a flat block or corkscrew type where people gush how "wonderful" the hair is, I look at something like Bliss Vision hair in comparison and shake my head.
BV looks real. It renders fantastic and it's a hair item I have never regretted getting.
I also like the Ricardi hair very much, because it looks very realistic when rendered.
That kind of hair I will happyly pay $20 for, because I will get a lot of use out of it.
Something that looks flat and unrealistic, I will not buy.
There is a trend of weird styles too, as if the creator ran out of patience in mid creation and thought "That'll do."
Sure, there is a place for that hair, too. Some people like it, and obviously if I don't like it, I don't have to buy it. (And I don't.)
But I'm seriously sick of side parting hair.
I'm sick of corkscrews that look stiff and flat, not to mention it looks like someone glued it around a curling iron and it kept the shape. It doesn't flow.
I don't mind well done hair, even if it's not to my taste, but a lot of the time... the hair for sale looks like straw. Now that may be the texture on it, I don't know, because I don't buy them.
Then you get hair that is completely inflexible.
Luckily at Daz I can return that stuff. I was bitching about the Mark hair, because it looks so thin and flimsy, you had to load it twice to get any kind of body in it. Then I realized there were no sideways morphs.
So if my character tilted it's head at a 15 degree angle, the hair could not be adjusted to compensate for those 15% to allow for that little thing called... gravity. Instead, it also tilted 15%, in line with the head, instead of going down straight, the way real hair would.
It went back after that discovery, because I am not going to mess around with magnets every time. (Sorry, Creator, good effort, but unworkable for me.)
Hair is a minefield as far as I'm concerned.
And I've become a lot more wary about what I buy.
I didn't like the Quain Hair, the other hair that comes with Hiro, that almost-bald short fluff thing I saw, that weird long style that originally came with M4 Pro... in fact... The only hair I kept was the Wild Style hair I think. Everything else I either didn't buy, or returned it.
Considering how many hairs have come out lately... that's a pretty poor show.
(And I don't mind paying full price for something I like. If it's quality, I don't expect cheap. If it's quality, I'm willing to pay for it, because then I support the content creators who really put in the extra effort and I think that effort has to be reflected in the price, and rewarded.)

It's called minimum effort, maximum gain. It's very common these days, just check a good number of these 'new' items for V4/A4/M4/H4 at DAZ and you'll notice they're slightly reworked versions of older clothes. I guess it's the easy way to make money and looking at the items that have been released the last few years, it's clear that a lot of merchants and figure creators have lost innovation and originality.

I do think it's time to start supporting the ones that are original and innovative and stop jumping on the 'big sellers merchants and large stores' bandwagon and tell NO we won't buy...... unless you get creative again.

And the  compulsive Digital Hoaders will continue to buy  year after year
and start " confession "  threads about how their 500 Gig hard drive is nearly Full of uninstalled content

So whats new ??

I've noticed this happening for a while now, particularly at the Marketplace here. Shorten the length, muss up the bangs a little, BANG! new product. Get rid of the bangs, BANG! new product. Move the part over a little, BANG! new product. Some vendors are getting lazy and seem to be just churning them out as fast as they can. Innovation seems to have taken a back seat to $$$.

Coldrake

I'm looking for realistic curls and haven't found them yet. And I really hate conforming hair. If Kozaburo can create a conforming hair and then also build a Universal hair with all the same morphs yet can be applied easily from the Hair library and refitted to any character, then why can't others??? Usually that is the immediate turn off when I'm in the mood to buy a new hair product and I see that it's conforming. And I guess I'm an odd one out, I'm looking for '80's metal hair styles.

we need more 1940's types

Latexluv, while it's not 80's metal style, check out the Bliss Vision hair here in the MP. It's V3/M3, but I use it on M4 as well.
It looks good, it's long and it might just tide you over a little bit.

Ah yes, I've seen that hair. A bit too long. I refitted Wildcat hair to M4, that works but it a bit tame if you're trying to do Nikki Sixx's shag-do. There is nothing that looks like Joey Tempest/Paul Stanley's cloud of curls. sigh I loved guys with long, fluffy hair....

I still can't figure out which hair we're talking about???

This is an awesome epic thread. It starts with hair, and goes into talking about hair metal bands. :D

If I were good at fiddling with M3 or M4 morphs and such, I'd so try to make a likeness of Peter Steele from Type O Negative. My mom always had the hots for him. :D

If it looks good and is different I buy if not oh well. Let's put it this way I have very long waits for good hair.

Thanks all, I was really hoping this wasn't going to turn in to a "Make the OP look like an a-hole for having an opinion..." thread which seems to happen everywhere lately.  So, it's not just me? 

I long for a real curl, a spiral perm hair, and I could go on and on.

I know hair isn't easy, I once had a hair product that sucked, a LOT, but for some reason I thought it looked good at the time.  It can be hard to be objective, and so forth...

And yes, we all know the old argument, "Nobody is forcing you to buy it..."

But Hair Makers, the people have spoken...innovate!

Quote - it's clear that a lot of merchants and figure creators have lost innovation and originality.

That's because poser buyers won't pay for originality or innovation.

Quote - That's because poser buyers won't pay for originality or innovation.

Oh really?
That IS one of the things I will pay for, IF the quality is there.

Quote - > Quote - That's because poser buyers won't pay for originality or innovation.

Oh really?
That IS one of the things I will pay for, IF the quality is there.

Yah, check out the periodic "Everything costs too much" and "I won't pay more than $10 for anything" complaint threads. Mostly over on DAZ, but then I normally only read the DAZ forums. I've seen a few pop-up here now and then.

Original and innovative items take a lot more time to create so the merchant will have to charge more to recoup his or her investment. Look at the lynching Sanctum Arts got in this and other sites for chargeing too much.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - That's because poser buyers won't pay for originality or innovation.

Oh really?
That IS one of the things I will pay for, IF the quality is there.

Yah, check out the periodic "Everything costs too much" and "I won't pay more than $10 for anything" complaint threads. Mostly over on DAZ, but then I normally only read the DAZ forums. I've seen a few pop-up here now and then.

Original and innovative items take a lot more time to create so the merchant will have to charge more to recoup his or her investment. Look at the lynching Sanctum Arts got in this and other sites for chargeing too much.

While I agree to this to a point I personally don't feel this way. I have quite a few hair models over $10 dollars and have no problem in paying for something fresh in idea, not too bazaar and high in quality. Even poser folks need a good do hehehehe.

I personally agree and regularly pay more for quality items. I don't, for example, think that Stonemason's stuff is too expensive. For what you get it's under priced.

For the majority of Poser and D|S users price is the most important (even only) consideration.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote -

Original and innovative items take a lot more time to create so the merchant will have to charge more to recoup his or her investment. Look at the lynching Sanctum Arts got in this and other sites for chargeing too much.

To be honest part of the reason Sanctumart is HATED over at DAZ because.
he does serious business only and refuses to hang out in the forums and play kissy face with the masses and he is very "Self assured"  in his promotional advertising.

cool its not just me either..........i took alook at the latest hair sale, and thought hmmmmm nothing really new as far as style there... and i'm always looking for hair.
cause thats what makes or breaks a pic sometimes.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - > Quote -

Original and innovative items take a lot more time to create so the merchant will have to charge more to recoup his or her investment. Look at the lynching Sanctum Arts got in this and other sites for chargeing too much.

To be honest part of the reason Sanctumart is HATED over at DAZ because.
he does serious business only and refuses to hang out in the forums and play kissy face with the masses and he is very "Self assured"  in his promotional advertising.

I like his stuff.  I don't own any of it but, from everything I have seen, it is top-notch work.  Him not hanging around the "ZOMGZ ANUDDER DRESS TEXTURE!" forums is a plus in my opinion.  I like DAZ's forums only for the Hex forums and the occassional Freebies post.  There are a lot of emotionally codependent posters in other areas...

Quote -
I like his stuff.  I don't own any of it but, from everything I have seen, it is top-notch work.  Him not hanging around the "ZOMGZ ANUDDER DRESS TEXTURE!" forums is a plus in my opinion.  I like DAZ's forums only for the Hex forums and the occassional Freebies post.  There are a lot of emotionally codependent posters in other areas...

I have Nearly ALL of his stuff including the discontinued 'RDL7" sci-fi sets and HAZ Mat Suits.
it's truly to notch!!
I dont care about his personality or any other" touchy feely" nonsense.
 I will pay a premuim for high quality ,above the crowd, content and he seldom disappoints in that area.

Quote -
  I like DAZ's forums only for the Hex forums and the occassional Freebies post.  There are a lot of emotionally codependent posters in other areas...

Very True!!

I am disappointed when I buy a hair and I can't get it to look the way it looks in the promo images. When there just doesn't seem to be a way to get the style that is shown :( 

I am just sick of not finding plausible styles since the standard P4 hair and Kozoburo... I will pay big dollar for realistic everyday style hair but unfortunately when they do occasionally surface they are often over priced and poorly textured... I end up having to re-do all the texture and transmaps myself on a $20 hair! Why can't people today match the skill of Kozoburo circa 2000. Low overhead and excellent quality.

Personally I am sick of hearing how I owe merchants a living and talk about merchants recouping their "investment". Want to get minimum wage? Work at McDonalds, Want to earn more? Sell your digital work to the commercial market. You can earn more than you can with a year's income with a Poser "top seller" product in only a few hours work on a properly negotiated and liscenced commercial job. It is like the people who get thier work hung at the local cafe expecting to be "properly compensated" for four years art school tuition and number of hours spent on the canvas!

It is quite telling that the best work going in the RMP by the most tallented artists sells for six or seven dollars per piece on average and rarely over $9. These people realize it is about tallent and love of craft and maybe earning some beer money through volume sales... if you need to make your rent don't imagine it is due you for the many months you spent making your run of the mill Poser product! The best work in Poser content is by people not in it for the money... by and large they make the most money and don't see their stuff in Clearance either. There are reasons Walmart sells lots and lots of cheap clothes as opposed to shooting for one big piece of bespoke couture a day...  Poser is the hobby discount market of CGI, if you are a 'professional' you would not be selling retail anyway unless just as a way to get the store to carry the overhead of distributing your cool thing to the unwashed masses.

What I'd like to see is more hair made directly for a male figure. I have some characters in mind where I need long hair, slightly wavy hair, and hair pulled back in a pony tail. But....it's all crap for women that just doesn't look right stuck on a male figure. I don't care about morph fits for a million figures, I can do that myself - I just want male styles for a male figure, not some prissy female style with a morph to fit the male figures.

I don't need all these little whispies floating around the face (I don't even like the natural ones I have that don't stay pulled back) - and I've found two hairs over at RDNA I'll be picking up when I have some extra Poser spending money. But that's it...two hairs - and I went through everything here and at Daz (can I get that day of my life back???) before I got sick of looking.

I don't browse the stores all that often, so I may not see what other people have mentioned. But all too often I simply just quit and don't spend any money because it's all froofy girly crap, and I have more than enough froofy girly crap in my runtimes already. I don't shy away from prices, I just can't always afford it the moment I see it. I may not spend a lot of money on clothing anymore, unless it's something I truly don't want to make myself, but I still suck at making non-toon hairs and am rather disapointed with the lack of what I personally need for my scenes. (yes, I've tried modeling such, but it's the textures/transmaps that kill ya)

Personally, I would love to see more hair styles without the long bangs.  I spend a lot of time tweaking the dials to get a face I like.  I don't want to hide it under hair.  I've worn bangs most of my life and they don't cover half my face.  I'm still waiting for a good-looking curly hair, too. 

I just saw that... thing... over at Daz today.
I'm sorry, but... what the hell is that supposed to be?
Some of the promos look like those troll dolls, the side view... good God.
It may be "innovative" but no way in hell would I ever buy it. I wouldn't even use it as a freebie.
(That ultra long, step-on-me, hair)
As far as I'm concerned, it looks diabolical. I'm sure there are people who will like it, but some of the promos look like the hair exploded lol.
And I'm with Realmling.
I want male hair created for males, not female hair with a male fit morph. It looks wrong. Wrong. WRONG.
Hey Realmling, mind sharing which ones you picked at RDNA?

(and as to expensive items -- I own a couple SA products. Horde being the latest, which at $50 isn't exactly cheap. But it's a quality item.)

Alas, as long as people continue to buy 'girlie' hair for their 'girlie' pics, nothing will change.
Look at the gallery. 'Girlie' pics is all the Suckup Club ever does. I think this type of 'artist'
keeps the 'hair' and slutwear markets going. I mean, look at their galleries! Some of them have
over 400 pics, and it ALL 'girlie' pics. SIGH. Not an original pic in any of their galleries, but
whenever one of these hairs or 'clothes' come out, they post immediately with these items.
DAZ is a bit better though. As to SA, I'm saving my pennies to get the last two phenotypes,
then I'll have ALL his awesome stuff. As you said, quality is WORTH paying for. If I want
'touchy feely', I'll join the local YMCA. :)

Greywolf

Back to the original point...

Same release date, plus or minus a day, one hair here one at Daz, same artistic team, SAME HAIR with a different name.

The only discernable difference is one of them has longer bangs in front.  This could be the difference of one transmap!

Are they this uninspired or are they circumventing the "Exclusive" part of their sales to squeeze out an extra nickle and fleece unsuspecting shoppers at the same time?

Probably as you said. I don't buy long hair anymore, unless it is something different, and
these aren't anymore. So fleecing? Probably not. But squeezing out a few extra buck? Likely.
But THAT isn't a crime. If it was, most merchants in ANY market have been guilty of it at LEAST
once. We don't have enough jails. :)

Greywolf

I'm going to play the "Yeah, but still..." card here and stress that releasing the same product (or what otherwise could've been the same product) under two different names at two different sites is very, very douchey AND uncreative.  If these trends continue in an already bloated, tired marketplace, it is going to undermine whatever buyer confidence is left IMO and something should be done to let everyone know this sort of underhanded behaviour won't be tolerated IMO.

Quote - > Quote -

I like his stuff.  I don't own any of it but, from everything I have seen, it is top-notch work.  Him not hanging around the "ZOMGZ ANUDDER DRESS TEXTURE!" forums is a plus in my opinion.  I like DAZ's forums only for the Hex forums and the occassional Freebies post.  There are a lot of emotionally codependent posters in other areas...

I have Nearly ALL of his stuff including the discontinued 'RDL7" sci-fi sets and HAZ Mat Suits.
it's truly to notch!!
I dont care about his personality or any other" touchy feely" nonsense.
 I will pay a premuim for high quality ,above the crowd, content and he seldom disappoints in that area.

Quote -
  I like DAZ's forums only for the Hex forums and the occassional Freebies post.  There are a lot of emotionally codependent posters in other areas...

Very True!!

See how you feel about him when you have bought something of his and then posted renders under a different name from the one you bought it under and see how you like how he  apparently  thinks he can  accuse you of theft just because he doesn't have a name on a magic list. (and yes he did this, the thread is probably still over at PoserPros)

I admit that they make quality stuff but you have to have a fairly high end machine to use it as intended.

Edit: duh forgot to address the reason of the thread lol.

The hair I have seen lately has been  pretty ... meh really other than the ZED hair but that's because I do a lot of fantasy renders so hair like that is not out of place in  a scene like I put together. Besides April makes great hair in my opinion.

I just bought Mark hair yesterday and I am dissapointed in it already and I havent even rendered it yet I hope it is not as bad as Silke described.

Silke - these are the two hairs I found relatively decent over at RDNA. A little older, but takes care of one of my characters. Now I just need a fuller wavier long/pony for males and I'll be happy. ^_^

http://www.runtimedna.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=1091

http://www.runtimedna.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=1162

Quote - Personally I am sick of hearing how I owe merchants a living and talk about merchants recouping their "investment". Want to get minimum wage? Work at McDonalds, Want to earn more? Sell your digital work to the commercial market. You can earn more than you can with a year's income with a Poser "top seller" product in only a few hours work on a properly negotiated and liscenced commercial job. It is like the people who get thier work hung at the local cafe expecting to be "properly compensated" for four years art school tuition and number of hours spent on the canvas!

My sentiments exactly! As for SA and his quality niche items, I wouldn't touch his stuff with a ten foot pole being held by someone else. I watched the PoserPros thread where he treated one of his customers like absolute dirt for daring to post an image under a screen name different than the one they used to buy his products. I too have multiple screen names on different sites and there's no way I'm going to set myself up for that kind of public assault on my character so I just won't buy his stuff.

Now to the OP's point, it is dispicitable that merchants are selling the same thing under different names. Those merchants should be avoided completely and I'd appreciate a PM with names so I can know who not to buy from. Changing a hair just a little and repackaging it under a new name instead of just making the change a morph for the original hair is beyond unscrupulous in my opinion.

There's only only one hair merchant I buy from regularly and that's AprilYSH. Beyond that, the only hair I've bought from a merchant recently, who wasn't April, was the curly "UpTown Boy" hair style for Hiro4 and M4 over at DAZ.

http://market.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=69898&vendor=108906

Edited (I forgot I can't link to Daz anymore, so go to Daz and search for Camille Hair)

These items were released no more than 48 hours from each other, they were both front page items at their respective sites at the same time.  Make sure you look at all the pictures.

For even more fun, have a look at their whole RO store and see even more center-parted, shoulder-length, straight-hair models with only the slightest deviations that could be just as easily done with the inclusion of an extra trans-map.

Look, nobody is forcing me to buy anything, I get that, I just think it's skeevie.  And if they would only focus their attention on making NEW, different and UNIQUE items, they might actually get some money from me.

But,but...it's on sale at 25.01% off (?!?) and you'll save $4.24........ :rolleyes:

lol heh

Quote - http://market.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=69898&vendor=108906

Edited (I forgot I can't link to Daz anymore, so go to Daz and search for Camille Hair)

These items were released no more than 48 hours from each other, they were both front page items at their respective sites at the same time.  Make sure you look at all the pictures.

For even more fun, have a look at their whole RO store and see even more center-parted, shoulder-length, straight-hair models with only the slightest deviations that could be just as easily done with the inclusion of an extra trans-map.

Look, nobody is forcing me to buy anything, I get that, I just think it's skeevie.  And if they would only focus their attention on making NEW, different and UNIQUE items, they might actually get some money from me.

Yikes! I must say I love their Aundrea Hair. It totally rocks!

I get the hairs I like from Mairy/Plus3D or Studio11...

I dunno if this was mentioned already, but the same body texture (the cute one from 3d.sk (aneta)) may have been used dozens or hundreds of times in poser textures, so in a way, the clients may be buying the same body texture dozens or hundred of times without a clue.

Yeah but those textures are only used for Poser Pron as a tribute to her real life job. :biggrin:

The one that annoys me is the other with the three distinctive moles on the torso that keeps showing up over and over ad nauseum.....I don't even consider looking at "new" Poser characters anymore.

Quote - For even more fun, have a look at their whole RO store and see even more center-parted, shoulder-length, straight-hair models with only the slightest deviations that could be just as easily done with the inclusion of an extra trans-map....

I understand your point.  But, most of those "different" designs would require some mesh work.  Simple stuff, really... Actually, the mesh tweaks would be easier and faster to do than a new transmap. :)

Quote - Look, nobody is forcing me to buy anything, I get that, I just think it's skeevie.  And if they would only focus their attention on making NEW, different and UNIQUE items, they might actually get some money from me.

Well, the particular producers you've exampled do have a reputation for quality hair products.  I own several, as a matter of fact.  Some of the most popular hair products have been produced by that team.  So, with their history of creation, I can cut them some slack even if they used the same base mesh.

HOWEVER, I do want to point out that it is not really possible to make a judgment regarding these products without having the mesh in hand.  No amount of "looks like" equates to "evidence."  That's circumstantial and just an anecdotal judgment.  Don't get me wrong: I think it's quite possible you are right and the same base mesh could have been used to sculpt the models.  After all, if you have a stock base you can work with and edit to produce a number of models, it would save you a lot of work - People do this all the time... Look at M4.  DAZ3D is guilty of the same crime....  As a matter of fact, every barber and hair salon stylist does the same thing - Works with a base model to produce an effect that, no matter how many times it is done, is going to have similarities simply because.. it's all growing out of the same head.

But, the point is that while I think your suspicions are true, I can't say it is proper to claim they are true based on the evidence at hand.  We'd need the meshes and would have to open them up and compare them.  (There are ways to check for such things even if the mesh was cut/spliced/rearranged/etc although I don't have the program capable of doing that.)

But, if we are going to cry foul at an accomplished artist using a "Base Mesh" to construct models that are similar (IF they used their same base model) then shouldn't we point fingers at DAZ3D for v4-m4, v2-milkids, v3-a3 etc as well?  After all, this would be the same type of thing.  And, even then, is it really that bad?  If the customer likes the product and likes one style a little more than the other even though it was developed off the same mesh, what's the problem?

We're all made from the same base mesh.  We have two arms, two legs, a head, torso , neck.. etc..  Some of these components are in various stages of disrepair or may even be missing.  But, that is a rarity.  The point is, how many combinations of naturally occuring variables can we come up with before repetition?  What are the differences in resolutions of these variables before the human eye can not distinguish between them?  How many leather bomber jackets can there be? :)

Realmling, I got both of those from uh... gosh. Years ago. I think I used them once, because they just looked... crap.
Might have been me, but the textures are stringy and just looked off (to me).
Maybe I give them another shot and see if my perception improves.

Quote - How many leather bomber jackets can there be? :)

OOH, I know this one!  "As many as thongs for V4"

(Dropped a blasted bracket.)

Quote - > Quote - How many leather bomber jackets can there be? :)

OOH, I know this one!  "As many as thongs for V4"

(Dropped a blasted bracket.)

ROFL!

Morkonon,
I understand your point but I think you're being coy/devil's advocate.  Yes, they have historically made nice hair and I don't blame anyone for using a base mesh.  Hair is complicated and messy potentially.

But really, these two in particular, are the same whether they are the same mesh or not!  I mean, my point loses a little steam if they are different meshes, but not much.  The point is, it's the same hair in spirit and to put both out at the same time at different sites, presumably (and this is key) EXCLUSIVELY to those sites (to benefit from higher cut) is underhanded IMO. 

I think we can all agree that there was absolutely NO reason not to issue one package that includes the differences between these two, which are microscopic.  Either a Morph or a longer Transmap for that section of bang.

Personally I'd like to see more dynamic hair rather than prop hair...

Quote - Morkonon, I understand your point but I think you're being coy/devil's advocate.

No, not really.  I've thought about it quite a bit since I first read your OP on the issue.  And, my stance has somewhat changed.  I agree, in principle, with many of your points but have come to realize that there are some viable arguments that could represent a good counter-position.

Quote - Yes, they have historically made nice hair and I don't blame anyone for using a base mesh.  Hair is complicated and messy potentially.

I agree completely.  It's the only thing I haven't even tried to model myself.  To get it right, I'd have to have features I don't normally use or would need some apps I don't have atm.

Quote - But really, these two in particular, are the same whether they are the same mesh or not!  I mean, my point loses a little steam if they are different meshes, but not much.  The point is, it's the same hair in spirit and to put both out at the same time at different sites, presumably (and this is key) EXCLUSIVELY to those sites (to benefit from higher cut) is underhanded IMO. 

I dunno... I understand your point, really I do.  But, this type of thing happens all the time in "Real Life" products.  One TV is sold, exclusively, to one distributor as model xxx-9999.  The same TV but with a button on it that is different is sold to another distributor as model xxx-9998.  Neither distributor can acquire the other's "Exclusive" model.  This is called, among other things, "Protected Territory."  ie:  The distributors have their territory protected by the manufacturer from competitor's offerings of the same product since, in reality, no other competitor can have the "same" product since the model number is exclusive to the distributor.  It's only possible because, honestly, it's paperwork that determines what the product is called, how it is warranteed and all the things that make it unique.  Because "paper" and contracts require a specific mention of the product, all they have to do is change the model number for "exclusive distribution rights" for their distributors.  The point being - This practice is commonplace in markets today and I have to consider that when "judging" someone.

Quote - I think we can all agree that there was absolutely NO reason not to issue one package that includes the differences between these two, which are microscopic.  Either a Morph or a longer Transmap for that section of bang.

I can agree that, as far as the Poser marketplace is concerned, calling these "two different" products would take much more justification than what the product marketing images portray.  I also can agree that regardless of whether or not they are the same/similar mesh, some sort of effort should have been used to make them a little more unique.  However, as distasteful as I would think it if someone suggested that I do with a product I had created,  I can't throw large amounts of poo at someone who did so and feel that I could fully justify my outrage.

The worst I can say is that it's possible that a customer may buy both items and not get what they think they are.  But, if they did that, then they were looking for two very similar items to purchase in the first place and if there isn't much difference then the distinction is trivial to begin with in the eyes of the buyer.  So, in essence, they got what they wanted to begin with if they bought both.  /shrug