Oh and I have been experimenting with the scene trying to get  the thing to render faster and even on Poser 4 renderer which I finally got to render this thing after switching the shadows to depth mapped even then its slow as hell  and there seems to be a bluish cast over the scene in almost all of my renders that isnt supposed to be there.

Ok after setting that shading rate to 3 it renders much faster but its still not a one minute render lol damn I need a computer upgrade bad.

I also got rid of the  bluish cast to the render but I had to turn off the lights that I had been using and make two new ones but at least now there is a shadow on the ground under her

On the IBL Properties, under the Ambient Occlusion checkbox, there is a button called Scene AO Options. Push that.

But I guess since you never pushed it, they are at the default values.

Which is why you can't see any AO at all. The default values do not produce large area AO effects - only small crevices.

But first let's get your renders down to a couple minutes. Then we can adjust the AO.

Also, for test rendering, don't render big. I always render to my document window size while testing. I shrink my window, and move the camera to zoom into an area that I'm interested in. Most of my test renders are done under 600 pixels in each dimension.

The amount of work goes up with the area of the render, i.e. the width times height. If you compare render times of 1000x1000 versus 500x500, the larger will take four times as long because that is a million pixels instead of 250 thousand pixels. A test render at 300 by 300 is only 90 thousand pixels, less than one tenth the time of the full size render.

Quote - On the IBL Properties, under the Ambient Occlusion checkbox, there is a button called Scene AO Options. Push that.

But I guess since you never pushed it, they are at the default values.

Which is why you can't see any AO at all. The default values do not produce large area AO effects - only small crevices.

But first let's get your renders down to a couple minutes. Then we can adjust the AO.

Also, for test rendering, don't render big. I always render to my document window size while testing. I shrink my window, and move the camera to zoom into an area that I'm interested in. Most of my test renders are done under 600 pixels in each dimension.

The amount of work goes up with the area of the render, i.e. the width times height. If you compare render times of 1000x1000 versus 500x500, the larger will take four times as long because that is a million pixels instead of 250 thousand pixels. A test render at 300 by 300 is only 90 thousand pixels, less than one tenth the time of the full size render.

Yeah its no wonder I didnt know where it was lol
I cut down the size of the render to 300 wide and it still takes a bit of time for the render to start when the thing says rendering and the screen goes gray but when it does start it is done in about  30 seconds. it is kind of small but iI can tell things I need to see though maybe I just want to zoom the image in on a  full size area of about 300 square that way i can tell how things are easily.

I really hate to have to do this but I have a class I need to go to now its in about 20 minutes but if you can  post something to get me started Ill try it when I get back from class ( class is about 3 hours)

I appreciate you guys taking time to try to help me out

Quote - It was Olivier.

At the point in my 3d experience to try increase my lighting skills and following this thread. I don't mean to hi-jack the topic but I assume a simple answer is all that is required. In the Oliver example you point to, with the correct node references, can you change the ibl light nodes from pre-created material sets or is it better to save out the whole light set complete?

In plain english can I apply a set of saved materials from IBL light A and apply them to new or different IBL light that I have named IBL ligjht B?

In the same sentence you asked "can you change" as well as "is it better to". Let me take that apart.

You can do either. It is the same process as any other material, even though it is a light shader. From the material room, you can save the node setups and reload them later. You can save from one light and load on another light.

However, be aware that the nodes don't tell the whole story. The light itself has properties, such as color and intensity, that appear to be in the nodes, but they don't actually get defined by the nodes. Poser treats these light parameters like they are independent quantities, regardless of what light shader you load. Supppose you save a light shader and at that time the light intensity is 50%. Days later you have a light at 100%, and you try loading that shader again. You will still be at 100%, not the 50% you saved it as.

So, if you want to record all the information, it is "better" to save the entire light as a light object in your library.

Here's a handy tip.

For lighting experiments, I often like to clone a light, turn off the original and then manipulate the clone. I can then easily switch which is on and do comparison renders.

In Poser 7 this is easy. Select a light. Use menu Edit/Duplicate. You now have another just like it.

I do this a lot for spot lights, too. I make one at a low intensity, with all the blur and everything just how I like. Then I clone it and move the clone slightly. I clone again and move the clone slightly.

It's a very fast way to get an array of 5 to 10 spotlights. Very useful for doing stage lighting, for example.

Believe it or not, I have almost no "light sets" in my library. Because I have become very skilled at creating custom lighting in less than a minute, I almost always make my lights from scratch for each situation.

Thanks, understand the issues of intensity, etc from one light to the next. I'm experimenting using the Oliver image maps with light coming from different directions right, left, up, down, front and back by making various pieces and or several pieces of the color math black. Then messing around with color tones. Been saving my variations off as light sets and was curious if it would have been more prudent to use the material room to bring them back in to replace, vs loading back in another light.

Have used the duplicate function to light an indoor office hallway to make it look like the lights are coming out of can type fixtures. Major time saver.

Pardon me but I was looking around when I was in Poser last night -
I never did find out where I could set AO on materials  (as opposed to lights):

quote: *The AO strength on materials should be set about 10 times as high as on lights to get a comparable effect,

*Thanks

its next to reflect,refract,.....
raytracing.

OH so its in the Posersurface  main panel.

Thanks  I will look at it when i am back on my home machine!

no. under nodes. where you have your raytracing nodes.

There is a node for Ambient Occlusion. It generates white except where there is something nearby, then it generates a darker shade gray. We use this information to selectively alter the reflectivity or brightness in a shader.

You generally plug it into the parameter that controls the diffuse reflectivity in your shader setup. If you're using the built-in diffuse capability of the root node (poser surface) then that would be the Diffuse_Value. If you're using other diffuse nodes, such as Clay or Velvet, you'd use appropriate parameters on those nodes. It is also possible to plug it directly into color channels to darken any color. This is sometimes used to create "dirty" shaders - shaders that appear to have collected dirt in crevices.

Whoever said 10 times the strength actually meant distance. The distance on the AO node seems to behave or mean something different than the distance on the light-based AO. In many ways, controlling the distance effectively controls the strength of the shadow, so it's somewhat useful to think of the distance as a strength. However, you cannot use it to change how black the deepest shadow is. That would be the job of the strength parameter.

However, the AO node strength actually doesn't work at all. So if you want to adjust the strength you need to combine it with a Blender node, and mix some WHITE in with the AO before you plug it into your diffuse value parameter.

See here for a demo:

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?message_id=3099237&ebot_calc_page#message_3099237

AH  looking at your explanation in that thread you linked to  makes it seem not so complicated, BB.

general question here:

If I have AO nodes set up on materials,  I will get  AO effects on these materials  EVEN IF  AO  is  turned  OFF  on all lights,  correct?

in other words , I am assuming AO via lights  and AO  via materials  do not effect each other (as far as"on" of "off" status. that is )

yes. if you hane AO in materials then they will always be on.

sorry but sometimes  questoins occur to me when I am at work and unable to go check out the issue in Poser ....

I know that to create the AO effect on a Poser surface  you apply the AO node to the surface that will have the "shadow" on it.

For instance I have a figure sitting in  a chair, lit from above,  so the poser surface  of the seat cushion would have the AO node  so that  her legs  would be creating the shadow affect on the seat cushion.

BUT  will a poser surface cause on AO effect on itself  if part of the surface interrupts the light ? what I mean is, the figure's legs are crossed  in this scene,  and the leg that is  under  needs to show  a shadow effect on it due to the leg that is on top. so if i was to apply AO node to the posersurface "body"  would the poser surface take an AO effect caused by itself?

( hmmmmm  I suppose I could define the bottom leg ,only, as it's own  mat zone, couldn't  I )

Thanks

Yep it does. The AO node looks around at all geometry, including polygons of its own material zone. That's why mat AO works great when you put a figure's legs or fingers close together.