Quote - This is evidently a problem I had with using Morph Cloth.  I tried to limit transfers and noticed that it was doubling up on some test items.  It seemed like it was loading morphs for each body part and then loading them all again every time it moved to a new body party.  The effect would bloat the CR2 with all sorts of duplicates.  I don't know if it is "User Error" (which is likely) or a bug (less likely).

If we talk about Dimension3D CopyMorph program you don't need to add morphs to the single parts, e.g. thigh's, if you have selected that morph for the BODY part.
Body doesn't have any regular morphs, normally. So each morph named in BODY is a master for the slaves existing in the single actors and therefor while doing the BODY-morph all that single morph will be created if neccessary, will say the part is filled with a mesh.
And yes, I have found also that in fact one has selected that morph in body and the single part, it will be done twice.

And also a hint, especially cause we are talking about a cloth figure only active somethere in the leg's region, I doesn't find it really neccessary to produce all that figure morphs. For example FBMBulk is mostly good for also Amazon or Bodybuilder. The differences between all these morphs are not so big as lower you go. So building a dress these are of more importance to fit the body most exactly, but on the thigh's and at least shin's they are not so different.
And on the other hand a boot is much more stiff as for example a stocking. So in a stocking more different morphs are also of more importance than in a boot. So here I think it's possible to save some amount of ressource and keep better overlook in doing not all morphs. The main necessity is to increase/decrease in x and/or z direction. So FBMBulk is a good one for widening and FBMThin or FBMYoung vice versa.

Also I found that there might be differences in the original morphs and recalculating from these, the program does some better and some worse translations depending on the morph. For example have a look to the FBMAmazon and FBMBulk in my piratebelt. Bulk is looking very smooth and well done in opposite to Amazon ... even both are doing nearly the same with the belt.

Quote - The issues with the CR2 are things I'm still learning.  I'm not good with debugging CR2s yet. :)  Anything you point out in that area is excellent learning material for me!

Glad if I might help you in that stuff ...

Quote - PS- BTW, I didn't hide the shin/hip because I usually leave them exposed out of habit, just in case they're needed.  I'm used to leaving them alone since bones like that are only included in helping smooth out certain JP's/Morphs when conforming.

Doing so is a case of occupational disease, I guess. As I started with pc's and software development a 25 years ago all that user's has been somewhat interested, curious, motivated and enthusiastic. Even a bug was not only bug, it was the chance to find out why or at least to find a (new) way around. But over the times we all together have produced a new kind of user, let's say the "kick and rush" or may be the "click and crash" user. Doing correct or silly things but never knowing or being interested in what they did.
And so me and lot's of colleagues have learned to hide all that things a user is not urgently needing or should not use by accident. It makes the life lot's easier ... not the user's life maybe but mine ... :laugh:
Though, since some year's there is new category besides user's. They call themselves system administrator. For that guy's is best if hiding not only the unneccessary but all things ... for a real developer they are the truely living bureaucratic nightmare ... :cursing:

If you are in that business, ok, than I'm soooo sorry, but there are also some good guy's among them ... even if rarely found ... :biggrin:

But in fact of that hidden hip and shin, with this clothing it's not essential. But I have found also for example belts only using the hip region but having all actors in the menu including thumb1 to 3. And that is really annoying to search the only needed actor in a overcrowded menu.
And these mesh-less parts being next to last filled part are really only used to influence in the parent child chain.
Although also not every time. If you have a look to my pirate belt. The last mesh-filled part is the hip. But in this cloth I have also deleted the neighbours l/rThigh. Their parent-child influence was bad cause the left side of the belt is more in the thigh region than the hip region and so it followed a thigh movement more than really good. So I eliminated that influence.

So the rule of thumb all mesh-filled parts plus one direct neighbour is also depending on the circumstances and sometimes not needed.

That alternate geometry thingie as such is not complicated but there I'm not sure how to solve best is the theme with the morphs. Morphs can belong to separat parts of the alternates. So single morphs like for example widing the V will be no problem. But implementing that FBM morphs ... I guess that CopyMorph programs would not work on these. Might be that is neccessary to have separate CR2 to translate these morphs first. And than they have to be combined to one CR2 ... that's a fascinating task ...
In worse case all these single created morphs have to be saved as objects and than reloaded into the final CR2 ... we will see ...

If I had done it only on the Sexy Leather original boot (without morphs), it would be finished.
But I used that CR2 holding the bodymorphs created with D3D CopyMorph program.

As seen left under 1 the original is completely intact and does also react to the morph dials.

Than I have combined the new cuffs with the respective original boot parts meshes. The thighs for number 2 and with the shins for 3 and 4.
:ohmy: What a sewing ... so the cuff and the original mesh are connected with their outmost vertices and saved as a new mesh object. In case of the shins I have shortened that originals for the correct height and rescaled/rotated the cuff's for best fitting.

So all that cuffs are now parts of one CR2. And as seen, the uv map is left intact. Oh, that green (preview color) seam is the new "trim" material group. I have taken the outmost line of polygons around and into the V and have split it with inner extension 3 or 4 times. The new outmost line of polygons is now a bit turned inside to have a feeling of thicker material at the edge.
And so most of the old outer polygon line went to a new material group ready to be textured.

I had to tweak the joints and spherical fallout zones somewhat. For the thigh's it was easy, only 10 degree more in one exclude paramameter for bend and, as you see, the old "BendFixMorph" is not neccessary any more.
B.t.w. the seen poke through a the legs is the same as with the original boot. So not related with my changes.

With the shin's it's lot's more complicated cause changing the fallout zones to have included the whole cuff is influencing the original style without cuffs more than good. So I did a acceptable compromise. The higher position at the shins (3) is quite good working. But with the lower position I'm not completely satisfied, the front part is stretched too much round the corner.
But this is as is for two reasons. First it's the upstanding style of the cuff mesh and second in accordance to that it's coming to the mostly bend position.

If the original wouldn't be a thigh boot but a boot only reaching up to the knee, I would have killed the bending in conjunction with the thighs to fix this. But this would kill the functionality if thigh is used too.

So I will do a additional alternate part with the cuffs deeper ... let's say one cuff height deeper along the shins. This should bring them out of the critical bending zone.
So than that positions 2, 3 and the new one are usable also with some more extrem bends and that position 4 is only good for les bend legs, e.g. standing or lying positions.
I think thats acceptable at all.

For using the shin cuffs, the thigh's are set invisible. In Poser 7 that visibility check mark can be changed to be a dial and therefor can be used as slaved body dial. I did so that all these can be steered in the dial pallet of the body. I'm not sure if this will work in Poser 6 too. In P5 it doesn't. So in P5 and maybe P6 you have to go to the single actors or the heirarchy window to set the thighs invisible.

For the next days I will have a look on how to transfer the bodymorphs also with using cuffs.
The question is not IF this will work but HOW to do it best and easiest. Have to try out ... :rolleyes:

But for the moment I'm really happy with that ... clap, clap, clap, ... :tt1:
Think that this is making a really versatile sexy pirate boot ...

Ahh, b.t.w. I think a separat morph to have more flare with the cuff's isn't needed. This will make things with the sperical fallout zones only more complicated. Using alternate geometry is a bit limitated to having parts that are not too different in their size.
But having a morph to move the both edges at the V could be a nice addon.

A bit late but if ye be interested for future ventures I can point ye to some references to answer some questions and notions mentioned within the first few posts of this thread.

Since taking me leave of the Poser communities I have been running with pirate reenactor groups of the GAoP (Golden Age of Piracy). We do Ren faire and Pirate festivals doing black powder demonstrations, mock sword fights, and much chasing o' wenches and drinking o' rum.

As for the "period" o' what ye speak; first I noticed you mentioned Tortuga, therefore I would assume ye be speaking of the GAoP wich falls between 1650 and 1730 (give or take 20 years depending on who you speak to).

As for the types of material; unless ye be from the Orients then mostly ye be working with fine linens, wools, and leather also hemp (a few others as well but I not be a tailor). Cotton would be rare as it was hard to come by and very pricy, not much of it to be found with the English, French, and Spaniards that roamed the Caribbean...some, much not much.

Ok, I like P3D's outfits too myself, but in reality the dresses of the period where longer...MUCH longer.
s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm173/Mad_L_photos/Pyrates/ (a few of my own P3D renders)
Actually the only couple female pirates known dressed as men, pretending to be men actually; aye, I be speaking of Ann Bonny and Mary Reed.
Now earlier in history there was one other, known as "The mother of pirates", an Irish lass; Grace O’Malley. Now she wore dresses as best we can tell, but they also where long dresses, down to her ankles.
Now there were a few other female pirates recorded in the logs of history, but I have seen no others that offer any paintings or even period artist interpritations of how they dresses, but by descriptions given it would be safe to assume they either wore traditional long dresses or dressed as a man.

Now, on to the boots; a much debated subject in the priate world. There are still some who insist that "pirates Never wore boots" - BUT, that has indeed recently been debunked! For the pirate ship the Whydah has been found to have boots aboard, but currently only shoes are on display. Also, we have recieved recent word that there have been found an entire cobbler's shop in the now under water remains of Tortuga itself, it is said to have entire shelves of "boots". So far no renderings or artifacts have been made public as this word was just revieled last year in a forum by one of the researchers working there...he says details will come later as this finding was not what they were actually after so it is 'on the back burner' at this time - BUT, these two findings do show that while it was uncommon, pirates DID have access to boots. While no further information at this time has been given, we are assuming they are most likely Musketeer-like in fashion. However, a woman's boot would be much shorter, women of the period seldom had boots reaching half way to the knee, again because they NEVER wore short dresses. Even those who did dawn breeches or even pantaloons would have boots that only reached within an inch or two below the knee.

As for the Bucket, or Muskateer type boots, a good resource would be Loyalist Arms who has a cobbler which has been making us exact replicas of both Muskateer boots as well as just last year he his now making us Exact replicas of the shoes recovered from the pirate ship Whydah:
www.loyalistarms.freeservers.com/clothing.htm

Shoes and boots of the period where Leather, all leather, leather souls, in some cases such as these shoes and boots they have full pegged wooden heels.
And trust me, we have experimented and I can vouch first hand that neither would be of common wear while on board a ship - wet leather is SLIPPERY! Actually most will agree that pirates, while on ship at least, went either bare foot or some have been painted to wear sandals made of hemp rope (the likes of what many of us would like to find a good maker of...oh yes, there are a couple out there, but they are not of proper making and so far none of us have been able to convince the makers to accomodate us...it took two years to convince Loyalist to make proper shoes so pirate reenactors could stop wearing civil war and coloniel era designes)

Now if ye wants a bit more Hollywood style in yer boots then ye can take a look at the ones actually made for POTC movie, the very place mine own come from, CAboots. Here be examples of Will Turner, Jack Sparrow, as well as Barbosa and others:
www.caboots.com/category/mp/

On to the part about weapons; again Loyalist would be a good start, after all they supplied many of the black powder firearms for the Disney movie POTC:
www.loyalistarms.freeservers.com/pirategoods.htm

Now if ye wants a bit more true-t'-life information t' work int' yer renderings then ye may want t' take a look at some of the hard core reenactors of piracy, for that I would recommend browsing the pages of Gentlemen of Fortune, there they deal with realistic sailors of the GAoP era and have a full detailed description of the 'common sailor' who would be pirate and what his clothes would be and type of gear he would have access to:
www.gentlemenoffortune.com/

For some fantastic examples of swords, some period, some 'artisticly enhanced', I would recommend a visit to Baltimore Knife & Sword, maker o' some o' th' finest in REAL and STAGE swords there be:
baltimoreknife.com/
and for some more hand forged, and truely period, sword that will set ye t' drewl'n in yer rum then take at look at Old Dominion Forge:
www.olddominionforge.com/swords.html (swords)
www.olddominionforge.com/knives.html (knives)

Other links for information, inspiration, and links t' even more information:
www.noquartergiven.net/ (pirate news magazine, browse site for tons o' links t' tons o' resources)
www.bilgemunky.com/ (Bilge Munky pirate radio as well as he's reviews on all things 'pirate'..including RUM)

And if ye do not wish t' be gutted 'n yer inards fed t' the fishes then also stop by 'n visit th' True pirate wench, one one and only, the Doxie with Moxie, Scarlett Harlott:
www.scarlettharlott.com/index.php (but of course she tis Not a 'period' pirate wench, but she sure be Inspirational!)

Quote - A bit late but if ye be interested for future ventures I can point ye to some references to answer some questions and notions mentioned within the first few posts of this thread.
....

Awesome links!

I've been looking for some piratin' links!

I started investigating period style pirate garb because of this thread and have already decided to make a freebie pirate outfit.  But, I have to finish up my UFO outfit and all its inclusions first.  (lots of stuff is going to be in that one)

So, check back in awhile and you may have some freebie pirate garb for Poser if you want it!

PS - If you think there is an outstanding example of a Pirate Captain outfit (I have several noteable examples from period engravings/paintings atm) and a really good one for a standard Pirate sailor, by all means link your preferences there and I'll heavily weight the choice for the final freebie in favor of them!  After all, you're a pirate!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLsJyfN0ICU

:)

Amazing links, igohigh...

Very informative and inspirational...

And that Skarlett Harlett is a hoot, now ain't she just...

Aye, if ye be interested in some research links I can list some for ye, even some with tailors and some clothing patterns. Gotta run right now, got some school'n t' get t'; something bout building "Intelligent Homes"...but I can put a list together this weekend.

The GAoP be an elusive era as most tend to go for Ren period (before) or Colonial period (after), so the early 1700's is almost a 'dark age' but there be references out there. One thing that makes true pirates and artists clash be that Hollywood ignores th' true pirate culture; gotta remember that pirates be the first true Democracy and a captian was 'voted' into his position and should the crew feel he was not holding t' their expectations then he could be voted out at any time; with that said, it be true that many a pirate ship was commanded by multiple 'captains' throughout its time on the seven seas, so the average captain did not really have a 'captain's coat' and such, yesterday he was just a crewman, today he be a captain, in th' morn he may just be a crewman again (or killed for not wanting to give up th' title). Also remmeber that a "captain" of a pirate ship really only had 'authority' during a battle, after that, if he wanted to live, he was just an equal with the rest of the men. Pirates did not much care for 'ranks' for that it what most of them where fighting, running, from. And the actual story can be more complicated as 'crews' where assembled in various manor, some very colorful pasts, some kept in the 'family', others, true rouges of the sea. The culture of the true pirates that roamed the seven seas is as colorful as the fantasy that Hollywood protrays them but not in the same light; many a pirate was only a pirate for their former ship was captured by pirates and they where 'pressed' (forced at gun point most often) to join the pirates or die.

Anyway, I have to run now but will assemble a list to some places what cover pirates and their garb. Jack Sparrow; well, while technicaly acurate the problem be "acurate to WHAT era"? For that movie they combined the clothing of pre-GAoP with post-GAoP and mixed in a little colorful fantasy t'boot, but the coat, breeches, vest are all true, just not the proper cut of any one period.

gotta go, cant be tardy....don't want th' tech t' set me adrift - 'n I aint talk'n Tech neither!

I guess ye jolly Hollywood movie fixers be jaunty fellows whome wish, so 't speak, to show us only that does be living in our sadly modern fantasy ways of viewing/thinking's - and that thus changes does glam things up a bit/tad for all and sundry to tittle/tattle about!?!

Igohigh, really outstanding links and lot's of information ... though I knew of the Scarlett site ... :biggrin:

Everytime I'm really impressed by people doing much effort to have most accurate rebuilds of old tmes ... each summer we have medieval marketenders, knights and the rest of people from that era in town, a really spectacular event for sure ...

But for me, I'm good enough to do exact replicas. There better talented people out there. So I'm glad to have visualized my fantasies, being aware that it's not exactly the old reality.

But in that correct sense most of the beautyful outfits sold or freely distributed for the poser ladies are more fantasy than reality ... though not only from pirate era's as also from the day's round the corner. And the complete scifi stuff is than undefined if ever will exist ...

But I think it's legal to play with fantasies also ... life may be otherwise sad enough ...

Regarding to the boots, as far as I know boots and also shoe's was not very cheap in that day's and also later. So right, most common sailor's went barefeet and this was up to the later times of the iron men on wooden boats ... the tea clipper races as also to the times of the salpetre curses to the chile coast.

B.t.w. often pirates was not only pirate by accident cause captured with their ships on sea. They in total often being sailors by accident going to sea to avoid prison or worse. And later on also normal men found themselfes being a sailor on the next morning cause being shanghaied.
A interesting theme ... think you go to the pub with some friends in the evening and awake with a thick head in the morning being on sea without any knowledge or interest in sailing ... very strange ...

So this thingie of changing captains, though true, is interesting cause there might be also been the need of some navigational knowledge. And that for sure was not common knowledge in that times. How did they solve this problem

Ok, first lets start with th' philosophy. There be generaly three frames o' thought out there;

1. the Hollywood/Fantasy - pretty much anything goes. If its flashy, do it. But expect to get much ridicule from loyalists and historians

2. the Pirate Reenactor/Historians

ok, now I said "three" but only listed two. Well, number two becomes the problem. True hard core historians take things to the extreme, often refered to as "clothing natzies". In a forum just a few day ago it was stated

"If you can not provide at least three evidences of proof, then it never existed. If you can provide three evidences of proof it did exist but one evidence of proof that it did not exist, then it never existed."

Then ye have your 'rational thinkers', stating that if within reason you can prove all the elements were there at the time and the technology and materials existed, then there is nothing saying that it 'could not have existed' so therefore it well may have existed.
Example: 'Baldrics' - there is proof baldrics were in common use 200 years Before the GAoP (1650 to 1730) and then there is proof they were still in common use up to 200 years later...BUT, there is NO proof that they were still in "common use" During the GAoP. Therefore the 'clothing natzies' say "pirates simply did not use them".

Now, you have to remember that the 'clothing natzies', the hard core "show me" historians, relay soly on 'Recovered Artifats' - with pirates, there is Very Little. While some of the prominate figures (Blackbeard, Calico Jack) where 'captured' and 'brought to justice' in a court of law, there where 100s of 1,000s that were either killed on the spot, went down with the sip, or never caught at all - take Captain Avery for instance, often said to be one of The most sucsessful pirates of all times (even if it was by sheer luck) and NOBODY knows where he disapeared to. There where 100s or 1,000s of pirates and pirate crews that NEVER made it into any history book.

'Pirates' is a very generalized word. Are we specificaly speaking of "pirates", or perhaps buccaneers, or privateers, or mutanieers, and are we speaking of a crew of a particular nationality (English, French, Spanish, Barbados, Asian, Dutch, ??) or are we speaking of the few that were a crew of various backgrounds what came together off small islands of the Caribbean, in which case they would become th' modern theory of Chaos to the scince of 'pirates'.
And the particular crew ye speak about, what are their background? Are they primarily of military background what 'turned pirate' or are they of desparte men who joined in some tavern (perhaps Tortuga or New Providence) and then took to the sea.

Not all pirates started out as seamen, as matter of fact a well ran ship had men of many backgrounds; carpenters, blacksmiths, doctors, tailors, cooks. Many were 'pressed' into piracy against their will, many went t' the docks seeking a crew t' join, others were indeed naval personal who committed mutiny and took over the ship and tossed all those pledging loyalty t' the crown overboard.

So, basically what I am getting at, where clothing and even weapons are conserned; there are many a pirate enthusiast that will argue what Is and what Is Not correct, and continuously those stating something is not correct find themselves eating those words as proof is found, and visa versa. It all depends on which side of #2 they belong to and how much you at least try to stick with 'reality' in creating something using only the resources available at the time - even if there is no Hard Copy to draw from. For two years I watched as they fought in forums over 'boots', now that an authentic Historian who is actively excavating Tortuga has come and stated there is proof that pirate ruled outposts contained boots, many of the hard cases still reject the notion. As matter of fact I even found one thread just the other day where a proclaimed historian expert still argues that pirates never wore earrings - yet there is much proof that many did, perhaps not enough 'proof' for anyone to say that earrings where "common" but there is much proof that not only pirates but men of well renoun in the 16th and 17th century wore earrings. It is like those historians that reject any notion that pirates EVER at all had hidden treasure - yet there are two well known cases that state otherwise...thou in neither case has the treasure been actually found; I am speaking of:

1. Captain Kidd: at his hanging he is said to have hinted that he did indeed stash his booty somewhere between India and Boston.
   http://www.bio.umass.edu/biology/conn.river/kidd.html
2. Olivier Le Vasseur (French pirate); said at his hanging "My treasure to he who can understand". And to this very day some very distinguished men still spend thousands of dollars in search of his hidden treasure
   http://www.michaelbehar.com/smithsonian/treasurequest.html

Also it was well known and documented that at times pirates would capture more then they could carry and would 'stash' it to come back for the rest later (read about Captain Drake and others and you will find some of these tales)

But back on the subject of 'clothing'; I have found that many (not by any means to say 'all') pirate reenactors seem to come from the Civil War reenactment groups, they in particular like to argue that "all pirates where of Military origin and therefore would have adapted a military style dress" - actually I find that thought quite amuzing from such self proclaimed 'experts of authority' as there is so much evidence to the contrary. Of course many pirate crews were, but many others were not, many pirate crews never served a day in the king or queen's service, many were of a fishermen background or whaling background or even simple merchant background, many came from careers upon land, there is even one (forget his name at the moment) who was a prominent businessman, never sailed a day in his life, then one day, in his mid-thirties, just woke up and said "I'm going to sea to be a pirate" - he was killed within his first year of piracy and refered to having a "mid-life crisis" and "the worst pirate ever".

There is a site that details a few of the known crewmen of the so far one and only 'recovered' pirate ship; The Whydha
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/whydah/main.html

The ship currently being recovered as Queen Ann's Revenge has yet to be positively identified as such, so far we are all just hoping.

(did you know the average higth of a pirate was only 5-foot 5-inches, a far cry for Hollywood's 6-foot plus pirates!)

Now, do naught take this all wrong JoEtzold, for I am naught arguing with anyone's want for fantasy, i have done me own share and as stated earlier I do enjoy P3D's fantasy pirates me own self.

But for anyone seeking reference for more true to period resources, I did promise some links to such, so for now I can offer you these:

Good picturtorial recourse for clothing: http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/6655055

An online class of dress in th' 17th Century: http://www.costumes.org/classes/fashiondress/17thCent.htm
http://www.thepirateking.com/index.htm (one of the most complete list of pirates with detailed bios. And TONS more information; ships, weapons, shanties, timelines, terminologies, links)

Misc list of resources:
http://www.hotpiratebabes.com/ (The Mother Load O' Female Pirates! browse through his Calanders! Ye will Not be sorry!)
http://www.leathermystics.com/index.html
http://captjackspiratehats.com/  (maker of the hats seen in National Geographic's "Blackbeard" movie - he also made me own hat too!)
http://www.centerstagecostumes.com/Catalog/FrameCAT4.htm
http://jas-townsend.com/
http://www.hightowercrafts.com/page5.html
http://www.blackbeardscreations.com/ (great leather goods!)
http://topnotchcostumes.com/index.html (GREAT frock coats, THE best POTC Jack frock, she has some more authentic types too)
http://carlislesonline.com/
http://www.pendragoncostumes.com/ (Fantastic designes, some very original, some very period)
http://www.mistythicket.com/mens/pants/pirate.html (another fine POTC example)

Firearms:
http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/index.shtml (where me own Dragoon comes from)
http://pyrate.org/baldrics.html (Blackbeard Style pistol baldric!! I REALLY want one o' these!)
http://sykesutler.home.att.net/musket2.htm

Navigation tools:
Chip Log: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chip_log
Octant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octant_(instrument)
Backstaff: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davis_quadrant#Davis_quadrant
Astrolab: http://astrolabes.org/mariner.htm

For Fun:
http://pirateprincessproductions.com/ (some Cool short movies)
http://manybooks.net/categories/PIR (some free pirate novels in PDF format)
http://www.reclaimingtheblade.com/main/ (new movie - Coming Soon!)
http://www.thepiratescharles.com/?mpf=frame (THE greatest modern Pirate band - Buy ALL three CDs, ye will love them; we do! local So. Calif band)
http://www.chivalry.com/jollyrogers/ (another FANTASTIC band, get ALL their CDs too! Cutlasses & Curves be one o' me favorites)
http://www.piratespassions.com/defun/video-channels.html (misc pirate related videos on the Internet)
http://www.pyratesway.com/ (Pyrates Way magazine)
http://www.noquartergiven.net/ (No Quarter Given...hey, me new issue just arrived Today!!!)
http://www.piratesmagazine.com/ (Pirates Magazine - Scarlett Harlott now works there! lovely Scarlett!!)
http://www.rumuniversity.com/ (Univeristy o' Rum....oh ya, RUM, Glorious RUM! never leave home with it!)

and just so you know I did not enter this thread with intention t' put down the fantasy artist, I recently finished me own render I call "Bathtub Pirates" - a neked V4 wearing not but a tricorn while sitting in a tin bathtub on deck when suddenly her toy pirate ship comes t' life (not suitable for posting here), and I am currently working on one with a V4 standing in a crow's nest with nothing on but a bikini bottom that has a skull-n-bones emblem on th' front (true pirates NEVER 'wore' the skull and cross bones, actually the typical Skull and Cross Bones is a Disney design, it never really existed, the 'real' desing was a skull with crossed swords belonging to Jack Rackham (Calico Jack), amoung others, some of which did have 'crossed bones' but not like Disney's)

Quote - Ye will Not be sorry!

For sure there you got me ... :laugh:

A really impressive list of ressources.

It's indeed a very interesting material and theme but I'm not as historical or scientic to go such deep into that subjects.
I would place myself between your 2 first categories ... doing work in the first cat if possible and having interest in watching the second one.
But never would be involved in argueing in discussions you mentioned between cat 2 and cat 2 ...

There are lot's of themes of today and having impact to the future where each heavily driven discussion is worth.
But as far as historie is touched if there is no absolutely sure proof and nobody is found who was there personally, I don't see any necessity for whatever type of war. There may be several opinions but every with good arguments and then it have to be excepted that it can't be prooven completely. To be understood right that's not like the argument that earth exists only 6000 year.
That's a thing of mixing religion and science. But for example if boot's are piratelike or not is only a thing of given resources and their interpretation and, maybe, without new unfound ressources will never coming to the one real and true solution ... if this is really existing.

And on other hand if all things are analysed absolutely into deep where will be the room for tales and legends.

For example, I don't know if you are aware of the Northsea pirate Klaus Störtebecker. Was long before GAoP.
There is the legend that on the day of his execution he made deal with the high magistrate. All that of his crony should be amnestied there he could go past if killed.
So he was beheaded and legend tells us that we walked along without his head passing six (this number differs by source) of his men.
So what is truth ?? Science is telling us that beheading immediately (in milliseconds) will cut all nerves and besides some uncontrolled convulsions there is no activity possible.
So with look to the old methods beheading was done while on knees or sitting. And than how should one standup and walk at least 3, 4, 5, ... meters. So with look to the medical science it's impossible.
But that legend made Störtebecker a peoples hero cause while being beheaded he took a last care for his men ... ok, not all but some ... if true ... who will say ...

So as a modern and rational man I'm sure he lost his head and fall down and full stop. But on other hand ... huh ... what a scary but honorable legend of a lately fine guy ...
Ah, and as far as I know it's not reported if the beheading was done with a sword or an axe ... so there is place for a experts dispute ... but is it really of interest or is the legend as such above suspicion ?

So where would menkind be without all tales and legends on the one hand and all proofs and expertises on the other.
And with cheaper pc's and 3D software all can make their own interpretations of legends and expertise ... the one is named fantasy and the other science ... maybe two sides of the same medal ...

Three cheers to all that cock-and-bull stories ...

There's a .3ds flintlock here. As it's a .3ds file it wont be Poser rigged.
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/freestuff/index.php?user_id=109455

Quote - "There may be several opinions but every with good arguments and then it have to be excepted that it can't be prooven completely. To be understood right that's not like the argument that earth exists only 6000 year.
That's a thing of mixing religion and science...."

Aye, both science and religion as well as culture tend to drive modern man's views of what life way back 'when' may have been where there are not but 'clues' and no solid evidence. Even th' treasured paintings and drawings that some historians hold as basis for their "solid facts" are often found to be not but an artist's "interpretation" and not really something he even saw or drew for facts that he well knew. Example: if an artist of period was painting with intent to sell to higher class (which obviously he would as only the higher class had money) then he would 'dress it up' in order to 'appeal' to the higher class; in the case of a 'pirate painting', if indeed the pirates he was painting wore beards but the painting was intended for a palace of well reknown where such personal grooming would be frowned up then he would paint the rouges clean shaven. In case of religion and culture; if he intended his painting for a family of strong values (lets say white English Christians) then he may leave out several of the actual rouges such as blacks and and any so-called 'heathen' symbols that any may have actually worn (remember that in the 1600s and 1700s the English loathed Irish and Germans and call us...'er, them UnGodly heathens).

As I listen t' some of these hard core historians argue over what was 'common' and what was 'not common' I often find that the one doing the argument is 'assuming' that the pirates of topic are of their own favored group, often assuming it is an English group of pirates. True that information discovered finds that even on a so-called "democrate pirate ship" of multi-cultured pirates, there was a social order; pirate ships known to take on black slaves as crewmembers from a captured slave ship where seldom truely treated as "equals" on a predominatly English crewed priate ship. But of course, this information is only from the few crews that were 'captured alive'; based upon the knowledge known in whole such as ship's Codes, the whole concept of Democracy (which in the era was still alien and shocked England, France, as well as Spain that men would act in such a way) would stand that some crews may have taken on a more pure 'democratic' or 'everyone onboard truely is Equal' approach.

Quote - "But for example if boot's are piratelike or not is only a thing of given resources and their interpretation and, maybe, without new unfound ressources will never coming to the one real and true solution ... if this is really existing"

Aye again, even th' boot on Whydah has historians making the statement "just because a boot was found on a ship known to have been captured and sailed by pirates does not prove they actually Wore them for the ship previously was a slave ship and was ocupied by other 'passangers' of gentelmen and ladies of renoun. Therefore the single boot found may have belonged to one of them and never have actually had a 'pirate's' foot placed inside"

As well as the argument that arouse for the information that "entire shelves of boots" where discovered in the escavation at Tortuga, it was argued "Tortuga was owned and controled by different countries as different times, also the boots may have only been made for those living on the island, not for the sea goers that came and went from port." Arguing that they were for the horse riders among the island inhabitants and that there is still no "proof" that any pirate ever set sail with a pair on he's foot.
Even the few paintings of the period that do show pirates with boots have been dismissed by hard cores that they were simply "artist's interpretations and glamorizations". It can get quite comical when listening to them argur over details in a painting; here you have an actual painting or drawing from someone who lived in 1650, and now you have a 'hard core' demanding that certain tiny details are fiction and figments of the artist's imagination and another saying "if an artist of the era was able to imagine it then how can you say he had not actually seen it?" - yet neither can produce absolute PROOF to back up their opinion of what they are looking at (not unless one can produce a printed document of the same era by someone who either backs up or dismisses the artist's work).

Quote - "Klaus Störtebecker"

Aye, I know the story o' Captain Klaus Störtebecker well, I be half German meself now (Irish on me mum's side).
Ture, legend is hard t' dismiss with the masses....however, on the side of legend, one also has to remind themself that not all what is now was then. Opium, strong ale, and other influances could indeed change what simple 'science' tells us could not be. Could a man who was seriously dopped up on Opium, wine, ale, and Lord knows what else actually pull off such a feat? Ok, perhaps he did not actaully walk past 17 men total (some say Blackbeard's headless body swam around the ship 7 times, others say just 3 times) but could his headless body have managed just a few staggaring steps, say enough to get past one or two men? If so, then from that could easily arise the various versions of the legend as they are told today. And yes, you would still have the modern day scientist claiming "That is impossible because....reproduce it or I refuse to believe it...show me a video or it did not happen...."
On the side of Blackbeard, while I me self do not believe in the story of his body swiming around the ship, but to take from the accepted facts surrounding his death and use them to lend support to Klaus Störtebecker's; how did Blackbeard manage to continue to fight with so many pistol shots and sword wounds? Why did he not fall long before he actually did?
Again, most likely (as expalined by the 'hard cores' and 'scientists') due to strong rum and opium. (remember, liquer back then was even more strong then the strongest brewed today, and NO country had 'regulations' as to how strong it could be. Read up on how Rum got it's name)

 
Quote - "Three cheers to all that cock-and-bull stories ..."

Aye, three cheers indeed! Tis for thus reason I call a few Jack Sparrow impersonators me 'friend' while some of those 'hard cores' I refer to hate them with a passion and constantly rag on them and wish them away, even try to ban them from faire and festivals. What they do not stop and recognize is that Disney's Jack Sparrow is what breathed new life into the very thing they make a living at, Jack is what has made them much coin in recent years where the pot was starting to run rather dry. If it where not for the flashy, bucket boot clad, drunken wandering addlepates such as Jack Sparrow then he's own wallet would be much thiner today and the gates as well as calander of "Priate Fests" would be rather sparse and no where near rivaling that of "Ren Faire" (but then, even the Ren Faire ciruits have this same battle going on behind stage that many of the public are not even aware of...me own younger sibling was once a SCA member but said he got fed up with the bickering and lost interest)

As matter o' fact, this whole topic I could carry on into a more recent battle that has begun in the reenactor's guild of pirates; Sword Play
There is a rather vicious battle going on right now between Stage Actors and Reality Players
For some reason they just can not understand how they each compliment one another....so the battle continues...but that is not 'art related' so I will refrain from conversing in that direction in this port.

Quote - ...On the side of Blackbeard, while I me self do not believe in the story of his body swiming around the ship, but to take from the accepted facts surrounding his death and use them to lend support to Klaus Störtebecker's; how did Blackbeard manage to continue to fight with so many pistol shots and sword wounds? Why did he not fall long before he actually did?
Again, most likely (as expalined by the 'hard cores' and 'scientists') due to strong rum and opium. (remember, liquer back then was even more strong then the strongest brewed today, and NO country had 'regulations' as to how strong it could be. Read up on how Rum got it's name)...

By all accounts, Blackbeard wasn't a small man.  While some accounts could be simple exaggeration, it's likely he was a large man for his day.  The bigger you are, the harder it is to get to your vitals.

As far as bodies walking without heads - It's "possible."  However, there would be no motor control to speak of, no mechanism to communicate "balance" and certainly not much in the way of coordinated effort of motion in a single direction.  Movement would be dictated by "shock" firings of muscles and, perhaps, some specialized areas in the spine that some have suggested act as relay centers.  (something I read not too long ago but can't find a link on atm)  I suppose something like that could be shortcircuited by a beheading and fire off in some sort of chain reaction that would mimic movement.  But, as far as standing up?  No, that is so unlikely as to be practically considered as impossible.  While the inner ear does provide the majority of our sense of balance, muscle resistance also helps.  Yet, there is nothing below the neck that I know of that can interpret that resistance and make sense of it.  A fish flopping on the deck would have more of a chance of establishing itself as being "ambulatory" than a headless corpse.

Then... there's the true story of Mike the Headless Chicken. :)  If you haven't heard of him before, take a look, amazing stuff!  http://www.miketheheadlesschicken.org/index.php

Quote - As far as bodies walking without heads - It's "possible."

Completely right ... but this belongs to persons beheaded in a battle for example. So they have been walking while killed and the muscles followed and worked in the same manner as before for some seconds.

There was some 20 year's back a report of an accident between a truck and a motorcyclist. The truck was loaded with steal slabs. One of them slipped aside while the motorcyclist overhauled the truck and he was straight beheaded. But he finished overhauling, sitting upright on his engine.
Ok, next curve he didn't master and the truck was in trench just before ... poor driver got the shock of his life ...

Quote - Then... there's the true story of Mike the Headless Chicken. :)

I know the story ... and have to laugh everytime. It remembers me to my youth there I used to sail on a lake nearby. The chimney sweeper of the village at the lake lived in a house around the corner and we meet often. Once he got a chicken from a farmer ... small trade between craftsmen, you know. The farmer had told him to hold the chicken tight while killing it AND also some time more. But our friend ... ok, he went to his garage doorway, killed the chicken and laid it  down ... and the chicken, headless, run up and away, straight into the garage.
The garage was newly painted just the day before ... clean bright white ... WHAT a real mess, looked like a big massacre ... :laugh:

So headless chickens are no point of discussion ... though the time mike did his headless live is really astonishing. Maybe there is some truth in the story that some people are only having their head to avoid to carry their hat in the hand ... :lol:

Quote - Hi all, so here we are again ...

Seem's she isn't the most accessible partner to discuss about cargo ownership ... :unsure:

Will have to fiddle a bit with some of the polygons aroud the belt holes near the buckles and have to change abit with the tie for the saber cause it's a bit to high positioned. I need to separat the mounting of the saber as a own group. For now it was part of the hip but that meaned that is was bending with the hip. And that isn't quite right with every movement of the left leg.
I will give this part a unconforming name, so it could be bend left/right according to the pose following more to gravity instead of figure motion.

The bag, pistol holster and knife sheath will become parented props. So some of them will need a bending morph too. But this will be better than making them a group in the CR2. More flexibility to arrange them later. Might be someone will carry the knife at the sash part of the belt instead at the hip.

Then it come to the CR2 and is needing some of V4's morphs, only basics like amazon, etc.

Ah, and I have to play around with that cuff's for the Thighboots ... and some MAT poses in total.

Ok, so in 2..3 days there might be more in freestuff ...   stay tuned ...

B.t.w. if there is interest I could be persuaded to make a V3, V2 and P4 conversion ...

YES...Yes...Yes!!1 V2...V2...V2!   Love ya!  LOL

It's on the plan, but might take a little bit. So stay tuned, thanks ...