I've been using Poser for about five years now  and while my learning has been a slow process .I've never really changed any of the settings inside the materails room or adjusted the lighting for any of my renders.As i don't understand what it is I'm supposed to be adjusting and why I'm adjusting it .And what relationship the various adjustments have on the image and final render.I have moved existing  lights from light sets around but thats about it .Ihave noticed that  the chrome in my renders doesn't look chrome and the highly polished surface of cars and motor bikes  etc do not look anything like they are supposed to .And yet other artists are using the same props and thier chrome ,cars, motorbikes look how they are supposed to ,real.Is their any tutorials that explains these things in a simple uncomplicted way .i have heard a lot of people are using other render engines to achieve great results ,and I also know that  the Poser  render engine is just as good as any of the others, but you just need to set the scene up properly ( materials settings and lighting settings .) to achieve great results.

To my understanding there are no hard and fast rules. Every scene is different.  I know some who love the one IBL and another light look. Others who aren't into that and prefer 3 infinite lights. Placement of those lights are up to you. I always find myself placing the IBL smack dab in the middle. The Infinite always in the upper left. Then you have to figure what each light's intensity and color will be. Use Gamma Correction though. Many will say that's a "must".

Oliver has some lighting tuts over at RDNA.

I'm just starting on this road myself, really. It requires answering certain questions specifically. One of the key things is to ask what level of reflectivity the object ought to have. Most things reflect to one degree or other. Obviously, starting with the reflection of light, but then moving on to reflection of details. The differences between various surfaces has not only to do with differences in colour and texture (differences generally covered with the figure/prop texture you're using if it's good quality) but with varying levels and kinds of reflectivity.

Sincethe specific things you mention (chrome, cars etc) are HIGHLY reflective surfaces, the first thing you should do is learn how to create reflection.

At the top of the main page of this (Poser) forum, there's a sticky with a bunch of links to tutorials and threads relating to the material room under various subjects/goals. I would begin there.

Tuxedomask, this is a sticky thread written by Arcadia titledMaterial Room, Nodes & Shaders - Tutorials and Discussions (Bookmarks - Updated). It will solve all your prblems on this topic. It is the fourth sticky thread from the top on the poser forum. Believe you me, it will solve all your problems relatingt to the materal room.

I only discovered it about two weeks ago cos I am just starting out on this road. This wonderfull Arcadia did a great job with this thread. If you can not locate it , please let me know. Good luck 

You are going to be on a very long learning curve like the rest of us and you will never find a conclusive answer.  As mentioned in the previous posts, read the tutorials in the sticky thread and prepare to wade through reams of how-to's and theories.  And you will come back with more questions.  The best thing to do, play with Poser as per each tutorial instruction and experiment.  This will give you some greater understanding on the how's and why's.  Create some images and post them for critiquing.  Other individuals will gladly pointout your good and bad points in your renders.  And, importantly, ask questions!  That is how you will learn.

never neeeeeeeeeeeeeever pay money for light sets.

I have to disagree with ice-boy. I have purchased light sets from artists such as SaintFox and Mec4D so that I could study how they were made. I'm an oldie on this site and I remember back in the P4 days when people could upload whole pz3 files to the freestuff and you could download them and then study how the scene was set up. You could check the camera and it's settings, you could look at lights, textures, poses. Basically learn by picking the pz3 apart. I learned an awful lot that way.  Nowadays, you can learn by picking apart lights you have purchased and looking at the oodles of threads about lights (especially those that show screen shots of the light settings).

1.  Start with one infinite white light at 100%.  Start experimenting from there by turning it down, tweaking its color, or adding other lights to the scene.

2.  Do a search on gamma correction.  Bagginsbill has talked a lot about it and how it can help how a scene turn out.

3.  For the mat room go into the link that Eiseprod gave you and start looking around there.  Try out some of the things mentioned and slowly start trying things.  It's mostly trial and error.

Quote - I have to disagree with ice-boy. I have purchased light sets from artists such as SaintFox and Mec4D so that I could study how they were made. I'm an oldie on this site and I remember back in the P4 days when people could upload whole pz3 files to the freestuff and you could download them and then study how the scene was set up. You could check the camera and it's settings, you could look at lights, textures, poses. Basically learn by picking the pz3 apart. I learned an awful lot that way.  Nowadays, you can learn by picking apart lights you have purchased and looking at the oodles of threads about lights (especially those that show screen shots of the light settings).

or you open a thread on this forum and ask people to help you out with lights. you can ask 100 questions and people like BB,.... will help you out.

and you save money.

I would love pz3s w/ light sets I could study.  Now that's truly the way to learn.

I'd just like to thank everyone for thier input on this .I guess the best way to learn how the material room works is to just try different things and play around with the settings /nodes in the material room and lights.I 'll read up on some of those tutuorials as well .my only problem is once i make changes to things in the material room can they be reversed?Is there any step by step examples that I can try to see what certain adjustments effect the outcome/render.I really think for me its a conceptual thing .i just can't make the connection as to what ,how the adjustments impact on the material and affect its final appearance.I also see it was suggested that I start of with one light and add to that .So how do I start of with just adding one light?

As long as you don't inadvertently save settings, texture changes, etc, you're safe.  Everything will only occur within the application. 

The Poser lighting setup defaults to 3 lights upon opening.  Factory settings can be changed to personal preferences at anytime.  There is a lighting globe on the workspace which displays your light position(s) in relation to your scene.  There are 3 associated icons which create, deletes and changes your light color as well as a light intensity meter to adjust output.  Selecting an orb orbiting the globe will select that specific light unit.  More information about the light can be see in it's properties panel, simply select Ctrl+I on your keyboard to open the panel.  To delete light, select your light unit and click on the trash.  There is another way to delete all your lights with one script, but I won't get this way over your head for now.

"my only problem is once i make changes to things in the material room can they be reversed?"

Edit > Undo. :)

"So how do I start of with just adding one light?"

Go to your light controls in the lower left. Select a light. Then click the little garbage can icon. Confirm that you want to delete. Do that until you have either none left, or only one. Then play with the settings of that individual light.

Quote - never neeeeeeeeeeeeeever pay money for light sets.

Lolllllllllllll !!!

To stay serious, only the practice can help to learn, is there too many way depending your scene !

Quote - I have to disagree with ice-boy. I have purchased light sets from artists such as SaintFox and Mec4D so that I could study how they were made. I'm an oldie on this site and I remember back in the P4 days when people could upload whole pz3 files to the freestuff and you could download them and then study how the scene was set up. You could check the camera and it's settings, you could look at lights, textures, poses. Basically learn by picking the pz3 apart. I learned an awful lot that way.  Nowadays, you can learn by picking apart lights you have purchased and looking at the oodles of threads about lights (especially those that show screen shots of the light settings).

I'm curisous to see some lights set runing with advanced shader like vss or GC shader ... Sure the renders are surexposed !

For me basics lights set are ok for posing, not for render ...

 Light sets, like poses, should be tweaked and manipulated to fit the scene dynamics.  It would be nice to have something right out of the box, but that isn't necessarily so in most instances.

and since they need to be tweaked they are useless IMO.

make a new light. there you have all options. every light has a purpose. then you have shadow settings. and so on.

Ice-boy

How many lights will you typically use in a scene and which ones?

I love the way your lights look in your gallery. Richardson also lights scenes well.

SSAfam1: Your question will get you a multitude of answers.  It boils down to what type of scene are you creating.  I can get by with 3 lights if I am concentrating on a small aspect of a scene; others may require more to illuminate specific areas and create mood.  Outdoor daytime scenes will require an infinite light and perhaps 1 - 2 fill lights to brighten shadows.  Nowadays IBL is becoming a very important source of ambient light to add a touch of realism.  Again, it is a matter of scene requirements, lighting demands and what you intend to convey as mood and feeling. 

Quote - Ice-boy

How many lights will you typically use in a scene and which ones?

I love the way your lights look in your gallery. Richardson also lights scenes well.

i always start with the basic setup. the standard for lighting. 

1 key light
1 fill light
1 rim light
1 IBL

from there i just start experimenting. sometimes i use bounce light swith 50% of specular. obunce lights are a cheat to get some bounce from the enviorment. 

Look at what you can have with these settings, all materials are GC ( thx BB ! )

Two white point lights for the windows at 20 %
One yellow sun light  at 150 %
One ibl for the ambiant at 30 %

It's not vray but ... :rolleyes:

I just have a little problem with the and the windows ... when i add refraction the sun dont pass through the glasses, but i try !

25 pixel samples?  he he

raytrace bounce 6? ohhh come on he he . in the movie transformers they had 1 bounce. and only on the pipes,glass and the head. in the movie iron man they had 2 bounces of raytracing.
6 bounces is to much.

the render looks amazing with so bad settings. GC is the way to go.
what is missing is some little glow. since its not supported in poser we can add this in photoshop.

Quote - SSAfam1: Your question will get you a multitude of answers.  It boils down to what type of scene are you creating.  I can get by with 3 lights if I am concentrating on a small aspect of a scene; others may require more to illuminate specific areas and create mood.  Outdoor daytime scenes will require an infinite light and perhaps 1 - 2 fill lights to brighten shadows.  Nowadays IBL is becoming a very important source of ambient light to add a touch of realism.  Again, it is a matter of scene requirements, lighting demands and what you intend to convey as mood and feeling. 

Oh yes, I know this. I was wanting a basic starting point. Or at least, what he usually does.

Quote - > Quote - Ice-boy

How many lights will you typically use in a scene and which ones?

I love the way your lights look in your gallery. Richardson also lights scenes well.

i always start with the basic setup. the standard for lighting. 

1 key light
1 fill light
1 rim light
1 IBL

from there i just start experimenting. sometimes i use bounce light swith 50% of specular. obunce lights are a cheat to get some bounce from the enviorment.

Fill and rim are Spotlights?

i use spotlights for fill and rim.

Do you guys ever color the IBL light? For instance, the Infinite light would be yellow for Sunlight. IBL has all the light colors within the probe. Is it best to leave it white? Say I were doing a sunny day in the park scene and used a probe with the attached imagem (FYI I don't know if this particular image is linear/applicable for a correct IBL. Just an example)

www.sharecg.com/v/29247/Poser/StoneFence-backdrop-pz3-scene

Now, we already have the yellow Infinite (Key Light), next we'll use the IBL. Light pastel colors are best so would I use a light blue for my IBL? Maybe a green? Or do I just leave it white and let the IBL basically convey the colors?

i dont make the sun light yellow if its not sunset or sunrise. then its yellow/orange.
when its in the middle of the day then my infinite light is white.

i do my IBL's with BB IBL generator. there you get all colors you need.

Quote - i dont make the sun light yellow if its not sunset or sunrise. then its yellow/orange.
when its in the middle of the day then my infinite light is white.

i do my IBL's with BB IBL generator. there you get all colors you need.

Do you color your IBL?

what do you mean?

Let's say the background image was made into an IBL probe. Now I have the yellow for sunlight. Would I color the IBL green or do I always leave it white?

you dont need to color the IBL because you already have colors in the IBL image.

Quote - you dont need to color the IBL because you already have colors in the IBL image.

Gotcha. Thanks!

I agree with Ice-boy about the sunlight.  Unless the angle is steep or an apparent atmospheric disturbance, leave the sunlight white for the moment until you are more comfortable working with lights.  IBL will convey the colors of the image but it is best apparent in the shadow areas of your image.  Be aware that you should try to match your IBL and lights with your scene for a better natural environment.  That is why individuals who use photo backgrounds use the same image to create their IBL.  Also, unless the original IBL image is very dark, you should never have to over blow your light intensity to 100% or over.  Especially if you use Gc material.

I like a challenge, so I tried your render settings. Wasn't sure if my laptop could do it, but it did. Took 3 hours forty-five minutes.

sorry the render is to small to see the  ''mega details''

Most of those settings can be taken down substantially.  No need for 6 Raytrace bounces, 25 Pixel samples and you are really making your machine work with Min shading rate set to 0.02.  That one is way over the top.  I usually don't go below 0.2.

You know, come to think of it...the IBL light will always be gray. Well if you're using a regular IBL which you did NOT create with BB's generator. With the regular ones, you start out with white light at 100% and have to decrease it. I usually have mine between 20-30%; making it gray.

You can create an IBL without any image attached.  Just keep your diffuse color white.

how would you or are you faking . blue sky color at a sunny day? in reality the blue color is only in the shadows . where the direct light hits(SUN) the colors are not blue from the sky.
in poser if i make an blue IBL then the whole render will have a blue tint. even where the sun hits the surface.
it looks like this

Whats GC?And FIll and rim ? what  are you talking about ?I feel a little lost .I have managed to experiment with the lights and came up with a pleasing light combination for the skin colour .But the only problem is that the metalics and shiney  fabric  looks very dull.Do I need to introduce more lights for the metalics and fabric?Or is the key to all this in the materials room?Should I be adjusting the nodes for the various materials in the materails room so the I get the right light characteristic for the metalics and fabric?

GC---Gamma Correction.
Key Light---main source of light in your scene. Usually an Infinite Light.
Fill Light ---softens the contrast of the Key Light; making the subject more visible. Usually placed opposite your Key Light.. Can be either Spot or Point Lights.
Rim Lights---separates the subject from the background. Also Spot or Point Light.

Setting the minimum shading rate to 0.02 shouldn't make a difference unless you have changed the shading rate on all items in the parameters dials as well. The render settings shading rate only takes prededence if an objects' shading rate is lower, so for example if an object in your scene had a shading rate of 0.01, then the render setting shading rate of 0.02 would take priority. If your scene object has a shading rate of 0.2, that is what gets used, not the 0.02 in the render settings.

According to the manual, anyway.

Quote - how would you or are you faking . blue sky color at a sunny day? in reality the blue color is only in the shadows . where the direct light hits(SUN) the colors are not blue from the sky.
in poser if i make an blue IBL then the whole render will have a blue tint. even where the sun hits the surface.

I do it with a (weak) IBL light for the bounce from the sky, and a (strong) yellow direct light for the actual sunlight and shadows. Looks like this:

(from L to R, IBL only, direct only and combined.)

Of course for more complex light interaction, like eg sunlight bouncing from the ground back onto the guy, you'd need GI.

Pick up a basic photography book on studio lighting.  Poser is pretty much the same set up.  It is a stage that you build on and populate with actors, props and scenes.  Add in the appropriate lighting and you have a simulated environment.

@ice-boy: what color is your simple_color?

@Tuxedomask: Certain lighting situations will accent and bring out definition from a different variety of textures.  There is never a happy medium for everything to look right.  But adding more lighting will not solve the problem; it will just bog down your system with very lengthy renders and overblown light intensities.  In most cases, you may need to tweak Material room settings to bring out more detail from those material types.

Ice-boy - some things to think about:

• Simulating a photo would also entail simulating the white balance selected by the photographer. What I'm getting at is that if I have my photo white balance adjusted in various ways, the same photo can be blue or orange or neutral. I once made a few test photographs (not a render) of snow at night lit only by a sodium vapor lamp. Sodium vapor produces a very distinctive orange light. In one photo I left the white balance on "auto" (let the camera decide) and the snow was orange, like the fruit. Then I manually adjusted the white balance for the colors actually being produced, and the snow was white as ... snow. Same scene, same light, totally different outcome. What are you trying to achieve? I can get blue or orange shadows in a photo from the same real-life setup.
• Depending on conditions, the direct illumination from the sun can be anywhere from 4 to 10 times brighter than the ambient illumination from the sky, and as much as 100 times the ambient illumination from the local environment. Which scenario are you working on? For example, in one of my recent aviation renders, the sky was mostly bright clouds, but some clear blue sky. I built an IBL from my sky panorama and set it to 40% intensity. My sun (infinite) was white at 280% intensity.

It is possible to do the slightly yellow sky, slightly blue IBL thing and then white balance it in post, just like you would with a badly taken photo. This will measure whatever the combination produced for the bright parts and make them neutral, even though you may have started with too much blue or too much yellow. The shadows would be blue in any case.

Personally, I like to assume my "camera" is supposed to be white balancing for the strongest lit things in the scene. So I put a white or very close to white infinite, and a lower intensity blue IBL and it generally comes out right.