"why do i post in the bryce gallery".

Those that have known me from the beginning, hopefully know of my love and my abilities within Bryce (Does that sound too pretentious), and while sometimes i present a 3DS format model, it is not because i cant do it in Bryce but rather, where i am modelling at the time and the software available.

(Very often i am slipping in a model at work while using Autocad to supposedly deign some pipework for a new building - look closely at the plans for the Next Banking district and you'll find a legacy model of one of my battleships being built in a reduntant storeroom :)

My images though are always textured and rendered (and sometimes animated) solely within Bryce, often with zero postwork.

thanks again for looking.

i hope you agree with my decision to post in the Bryce Gallery, but i thought maybe it was time to ask:

"Should i be posting elsewhere?...."

 Hey man...it's fine by me...you are one of the best and are most generous with your models. You texture above average in Bryce and answer queries...I see no reason to not continue status quo myself. The answer would be "Because they are rendered in Bryce" IMO...jebus with DAZ content now available within Bryce it's pretty much an open field and as it looks to me, like development wise, as Bryce is dead in the water some stuff can be more easily built in other softwares so it is only logical to use the best tool available to get the best result..It ain't the hammer[tool] it's the carpenter[artist].. ...

 I agree with Bobby.....continue to post your images in Bryce, or else face the wrath of all your many fans and fellow Brycers!

I also agree with bobby...just keep on doing what you do.  !!    :thumbupboth:

I'm sure there's some heresy going on here, But I just can't put my finger on it.

This may set off the usual “purest” rhetorical babble but I certainly concur with Bobby here. As good a software Bryce is it lacks true modeling capabilities. It was designed mainly as a terrain modeler.  Aside from modeling basic primitives most anything else can be much more quickly and more accurately modeled using a modeling program even the freebie packages such as Wings3D and Blender.

I can also certainly understand the challenge presented using Bryce to model complicated designs, I’ve been there…done that myself. But in the time it takes me to model a simple water drop in Bryce I can model a water deluge using a modeling package. Aside from the masochistic mindset, Bryce is to modeling what the horse driven wagon is to the automobile with no relief on the horizon.

That being said, please, by all means, continue to post your work here. We admire and love your work. I think I speak for most when I say that your work is often inspirational. I thought I picked up a hint of AutoCAD drafting in your work.

aww thanks guys, it means a lot when you get support from your peers, and i just want to say i love you all. you and you and you and...whatever your doing stop it.....and you and you.

i too do believe in Bryce, and i will always fervently defend it against all-comers, there are those doing some brilliant and innovative work lately; Lown - Bambam131 - Nebulae2 - vorban (a new favourite), and of course many of the old-school.

(please dont get snitty if ur names not on the list, you can still come in)

and i do still model - and i promise to do a big ship ALL BRYCE very soon - (What have you just said you damn fool - dont yu remember the humiliation of the last challenge you took up...)

so anyway, thanks again.
 

Quote - "Should i be posting elsewhere?...."

Of course not my friend.... always excellent workmanship wherever they are created.

...who are you again?

Yep, you do great stuff! I didn't know you were using autocad to model though, that's pretty cool, I havent tried it, but my cousins use it for a living. I model in Rhino, but always render and texture in Bryce. It's just the best for me, has been for years! So keep em coming and by the way I don;t think you need to worry about it too much, Bryce is made to import models, etc, it's only natural IMO. :)

There are a lot of Bryce purists that scoff at importing models, etc, I just don't get that.. professionals use a multitude of tools to do what they do for a living, so why can't we? right? :)

Heck, in the end, it's art right? there is no right or wrong!

IMO, I think the Bryce gallery is certainly the right place for you to be posting.

I salute those who can model all in Bryce, personally I find its textures and its ability to combine those with procedurals or even two photographically based textures combined together to be one of its most fascinating areas, never mind the fun of creating your own mats in the DTE.

I await your ALL Bryce model with awe.

*'I salute those who can model all in Bryce,'

*Quite right too, and make sure you're standing to attention when you do it! :lol:

Yes sir, Mr Cardinal sir!

:b_nervous:

I like your attitude, Fran!

arnt we just the cutest little megalomaniac - in my future there is only love for all (except ........)

Well, I do not want to start any trouble around here, but there should be no such thing as a "Bryce purist" these days and anyone who claims to be is just plain foolish. Bryce is not a modeling software...period. Why on Earth would a person model anything complicated in Bryce? Booleans are not nearly as precise as true cad modeling. Anyone who has used and become intermediate in a cad modeler knows that.

I am a big fan of taking Bryce into places it was not really designed to to go. I fake ecosystems and spectral prisms, all of that and I am proud to "solve the mystery" with a workaround when I can. But I think that complex modeling in Bryce is a complete waste of time for the most part and artist could use that energy concentrating on light and materials and other aspects of a render. Do not get me wrong, I have seen some models from Bryce that really impressed me. But because I know Bryce I know that it was more difficult than it would have been in say...truespace.

Again, I am new around here. I do not want to make myself unpopular, but I want to get people thinking realistically. As long as the final render is done in Bryce then it is a Bryce image, as the Bryce render engine is the most important thing. Where a model was created should not matter one bit.

I was a foolish purist at one point, trying to model complete humans in Bryce useing metaballs...I was doing my very best. The simple truth, Bryce cannot model organics like humans and it cannot rig them and the like. Rigging is just one blatant example of the time one can waste being a purist in Bryce. I now know that I could never compete with V4 by creating humans with bryce metaballs and booleans...it aint gonna happen. The purists really should expand and learn to model in more than just in Bryce, just my opinion.

Quote -
...it aint gonna happen. The purists really should expand and learn to model in more than just in Bryce, just my opinion.

Ahhh...but if it gives them pleasure and challenges them...why not let them try?  We all do it (create)  the way we feel we must...whatever challenges us the most and gives the most satisfaction and gives us the learning experience we seek....
JMO

Sure, continue to model in Bryce always! I never said not to model anything at all, just do not restrict yourself to only Bryce, that is all I am saying. If you really enjoy modeling, then you will enjoy the cad programs where you can provide uv mapping and other necessary aspects of a professional or even standard model. I just do not want the purists to limit themselves out of some sort of misplaced fear of modeling outside Bryce. What takes hours in Bryce is often only minutes in other apps. And I must tell you this issue of wasted time drives me nuts. I wonder why Daz has not offered Hexagon as an optional Bryce 6 plug-in with an "H" button just like the "Studio" button. The ability to collapse booleans is a crucial first step, now if we could just take those converted booleans quickly and easily into a cad modeler and edit the individual faces, add uv mapping, painting,, then export them instantly back into Bryce we might get more mainstream artists interested in purchasing Bryce for it's modeling capacities. There is no need to re-invent the wheel. Bryce or should I say Daz or any other owner will never take the time to develop such modeling tools natively, the most likely outcome is that a cad plug-in be made. Till then, I stil would not limit myself to only Bryce modeling. As a challenge surely, but not as a pcractical approach to complex modeling. IMO

People can build real sized homes made of playing cards for the challenge aspect, but who would ever want to live in such a home? Such a home is impractical and most likely will not make you a better architect because real homes are not built of playing cards. The challenge can sometimes be a waste of time if it does not teach you how to grow in a practical manner. There is always some amount of growth with any challenge, the question is how much?

Also, I sort of hate the way the boolean export is handled in Bryce. The resulting models are huge in MB even at the lowest mesh resolutions. Inefficient is the word. Very few meshes really need to be triangulated, but Bryce triangulates everything wasting valuable memory resources.

I can see your point if it comes from a professional viewpoint....where time is money...but I was, more or less, talking about doing art because you just want to do it....I think most of the people here who call themselves "purists"  do it for the challenge.

I would be interested to know how  many of the "purists" make a living doing "everything" in Bryce?

Since I'm no expert...its jmo.

*Well, I do not want to start any trouble around here, but there should be no such thing as a "Bryce purist" these days and anyone who claims to be is just plain foolish.

*rashadcarter: I take your comments and attitude as a personal afront and I object to them most strongly. They are an insult to all those Brycers who have the skill and imagination to create astounding models in Bryce, myself included.

If you choose to model in Hex or Truespace that is up to you. We won't criticise you for it. That's your choice. However it is our choice if we choose to model in Bryce and I will not standby and let you criticise us. I am sick and tired of people carping on that Bryce is just a landscaper. I have proved that it is capable of doing far more than it was designed to do. So have more than a few artists and modellers in this forum. Your comments are akin to saying 'Why bother doing a jigsaw puzzle when we can go down to the art gallery and buy a perfectly good picture there?'

"Again, I am new around here. I do not want to make myself unpopular,"*

I would think very carefully about your next post if I were you. If you think Bryce modellers or purists are foolish then I suggest you take your comments elsewhere.

The Bryster
Forum Moderator

Ouch...so much for diplomacy....lmao!

Just glad I was on the side of the bryce purist society...lol

Well, so it is then, Bryster. It seems I managed to upset someone so I should be more careful surely. My thoughts are that It is a shame that a forum member actually felt the need to initiate a thread to explain that not all of his models were made in Bryce. Why should that even matter? I think the reason we care is because we all know that it is not easy to model certain things in Bryce so we are impressed with detailed Bryce models. No doubt. Still, if one is limiting themselves deliberately in any way that is surely foolish just in and of itself. The purists will always run into difficulty as extremists when moderates get involved. There is no harm in learning other modeling software to supplement your Bryce modeling skills.

I do not see why anyone should ever feel the need to apologize for modeling outside of Bryce. The fact that I might create a model in Maya and still bother to import that model into Bryce because I like the look of the final render says alot about Bryce as a renderer. That's all I'm saying. I for one will never apologize for modeling an element in Hex, Truespace, Maya, Carrara, Blender, or any ot the other 8000 programs I own. The final render should be what really matters most to the community at large.

If I offended I do apologize.

And in fact I will add that in some ways I am guilty of being a purist myself, in that I do not believe in substantial post work. nearly any image I ever produce is without any post. I feel it is my task to wrest as much detail out of bryce without relying on post. Yet, becasue of it I close myself off from many wonderful postworking possibilities, I am foolish not to consider post as an option. I must learn to get over that limitation I have placed upon myself. That's just a personal example of what I am saying. I do not see myself as better than anyone. It takes a fool to know a fool.

A few years back, I built a model of a house in Bryce that was fully detailed, with doors and windows that opened and closed, and even a little light inside the fridge. It was built 100% from Bryce primitives I lost it in a hard drive crash or I'd post some renders of it here. It was available in the marketplace for a while. Maybe if someone who bought it sees this thread maybe they might post a couple of renders of it.

rashadcarter: You keep saying it is a waist of time....  for whom..?   you!   Then my friend don't use the App for your complex work....  Just use Bryce for rendering...   You seem very upset at people who like to challenge themselves in a unique way...   Bryce is a sculpturing modeling App... 

Is it okay with you if some people use it for modeling..?  

You said your new around here....  maybe you did not understand what a purist is.... 
the word bothers you...    If you only modeled scenes with a Bryce sphere over Bryce texture water and sky...  that makes you a purist....  All Bryce = purist... 

It's a hell of a way to make friends around here....  

That sounds incredible, Jeff, no doubt! I am particularly amazed at the Bryce models created by a person who goes by PIXI, I do not know if he is around here but he is or was at Bryce5.com. Anyhow, his bryce models of all sorts of things are just incredible: Links to some stuff he did:
http://www.bryce5.com/details.php?image_id=1872&mode=search
http://www.bryce5.com/details.php?image_id=1872&mode=search
http://www.bryce5.com/details.php?image_id=1873&mode=search

A link to his full gallery:
http://www.bryce.pl/

I do not doubt that the finished product was fantastic with your model Jeff. My only question is on the time invested. How long did it take you to model this project? How large was the memory file footprint? How many more detailed houses of that sort have you modeled in Bryce since then? To me there are some drawbacks to creating such complex models in Bryce, but what for me is a drawback for others may be a draw in, who knows? I really wish we could work more modeling tools into Bryce but perhaps others do not.

So sorry to hear about the hard drive crash and the loss of your work. The heartbreak of losing such a detailed Bryce model must have been hard to cope with.

It is a waste of time for me yes, and for many others and we should not feel bad about it. I certainly encourage people to model in whichever app they feel comfortable in, that is my point. No limits. Why should someone be docked or looked upon oddly if a scene was not fully modeled in Bryce?

Actually, the 3D graphics modeling market answers the question of whether or not Bryce is a useful modeling application.  It's also possible (and challenging) to do complex calculations on a four function calculator.

Bryce has it's place in terrain modeling, just as Zbrush has in character detailing.  Now days, there's so much specialization that even expensive packages suffer in one aspect or another, like animation or texturing.

Sadly, Bryce seem to be falling further behind these days.  I wish this wasn't true, since it's one of my all time favorite programs and I still grab it for quick tests.  But if DAZ was really developing Bryce I could see spending the time to master it.

That being said, I mean no lack of respect to those who use Bryce to make those great renders we see here and at other sites.  It's really the artist, not the tools.  I guess I'm trying to say Bryce is not a good program to learn modeling with, but it is a good and satisfying program to make nice 3D renders.

Nice job on the model! You do some really fantastic work! keep it up!! Kepp Bryce alive! send it to DAZ!!! :D
 

rashadcarter: Your apology is accepted.

   /
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How many triangles? Well, the guy I work under only saw 10 of 13. You see my problem. 

Quote -    /
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How many triangles? Well, the guy I work under only saw 10 of 13. You see my problem. 

sigh...guess that's why I chose abject poverty to "gainfull employment"...I'd find that homicidaly intolerant...I got the 13 first try btw.. ...

Interesting. I wasn't going to respond, but I do want to share an idea or two with you. I tend to write alot so please forgive me.

Careful, don't get to feeling too superior just yet. There is a lesson here. It is likely disappointing and even confusing to you that a person of a lesser intellect could be made to govern a born thinker like yourself, and paid much more for his work than you. Fact: Intellect itself is not a measure of character. Smart people are not always nice or even moral, Have you ever heard of a mad scientist? Intellect is not the most important thing when deciding who to make into a leader.

This is an opportunity for you to observe the real truth of humanity and life. Life is not fair, and for a good reason. Though he may have a lower intellect, he is still loyal to the company's needs and he gets the job done. Monkeys are smarter than dogs for example, but everyone knows that dogs make much better pets than monkeys because dogs do what we tell them to do. How many blind people do you know of who own seeing eye monkeys for example? None I am certain. The roll of "boss" once you become a boss you realize it is less about doing what YOU want and is more about getting things done that HIS bosses want completed. If he does not get the job done they will eventually let him go.

I think that we need to remember that intelligence is just one factor needed for survival. Along with quick reflexes and a strong immune system, high or even normal intellect only helps with particular limited tasks. Because humans are social animals, we tend to form alliances with those who we feel most comfortable with, not those who are the most intelligent. in fact, intelligence is often taken as a threat to those of lesser intelligence, so be careful sharing the true scope of your thinking capacities with those around you who would compete with you. More on that in a second. Your boss likely has been around the company for a long time and has friends, probably has still been smart enough to kiss the right butts along the way. With his stressful job being the boss and all, maybe he was just too distracted with noise issues and stress over getting fired at any moment to fully concentrate and focus on the seemingly pointless exercise you presented him. Stress destroys cognitive processes.

I once had a professor explain to me that my intellect was the least of my worries. He cautioned that my concern in making sure others appreciated my intellect was indeed my problem. I told him it really pissed me off when others assumed I was dumb because of my looks or position or whatever. He gave me some good advice I will pass on, "Sometimes you have to be smart enough to play dumb." "Not everyone needs to know how smart you really are." " Even intelligence can be used against you."

Also, one test does not prove anything on its own. Yes there are 13 triangles and if you are accustomed to taking these sorts of I.Q. deterimining tests you will be much much better at solving these puzzles than those people who do not regularly take these sorts of tests, regardless of your actual intellect quotient. They have proven with studies that the more often people take I.Q. type quizes or tests the better they get at taking them in the future even though their mean intellect has likely not grown much!

Smart people know that politics is all that really matters. Use your keen intellect to become friendly with this boss of yours and maybe through socialization you yourself will get promoted to the status of boss where your own thinking capacities can be fully observed and chipped away at by those who are now beneath you. Make him like you and view you as a loyal friend, not fear you as a smart alec upstart, and he will invite you in to the upper mangement fold where you probably belong. You already have the intellect and they surely know it, what they are looking for from you is that you have the leadership skills, a separate entity from intellect and no less important of a requirement for leadership. Only once you feel compassion for him and stop judging him can you ever be promoted yourself.

Just my opinion.

"I tend to write alot so please forgive me."

O.K. if you say ten "Hail Mary's" and thirty "Jackiechans".

Quote - "I tend to write alot so please forgive me."

O.K. if you say ten "Hail Mary's" and thirty "Jackiechans".

And one "All Hail the Cardinal"....LOL.. ...

I found 13 triangles too.

And one "All Hail the Cardinal"....LOL.. ...

Nice to know I'm appreciated! (ROTFLMAO)

Is "appreciated" and "talked about disparagingly behind your back" the same thing??? :)

:lol:@ Cyber

EDIT: ...that'd be Cyba, Bryster..LOL...yer anal retentive lil buddy.. ...B*

Actually you're all wrong, there aren't any triangles in that diagram.
Real triangles meet at the corners :biggrin:

And Rashad, stop causing trouble :lol:

Bobby!!! Stop editing my bloody posts!

Apologies to Cyba.

I met a triangle at a corner bar once . . .

 I ate a triangle at a corner bar.. ...