I've started another tex for her.
This will be saved for a retail set.

I used the vss that loaded with BE4Antonia vss and altered it some.
The hair in these images is 3Dream's ponytail, no scaling, just had to trans it into place.

All I have so far is the face and a body base.
The first one is a close-up and a full body (dressed) shot will follow.

Attached Link: Face Rig

http://evolution.anthro.univie.ac.at/institutes/urbanethology/projects/simulation/emosym/index.html

In the meantime, I made my first ever JCM. I started with the shoulder movements, since that's probably the part that needs them the most. With the DAZ Setup Tools, it's almost a pleasure.

Wow!  She's looking really good odf, BluEcho. 

JCM's are fun again :) Those tools have lots of potential.   So tell me your thinking on this: is it better/easier/ to do the JCM's on the low poly and transfer them to the high poly? Why?

Quote -  Why not making a face rig which is muscle based like this Looks good to me ?

http://evolution.anthro.univie.ac.at/institutes/urbanethology/projects/simulation/emosym/index.html

Thanks for the link! Very interesting stuff. But have you looked at the actual description of that FACS system? I'd probably die from boredom if I had to read that. :lol: Believe me, I have a very readable description of a nice, practical system of facial morphs, which in fact I suspect will not look all too different from FACS when implemented. You don't have to worry that I'll do something stupid.

Quote - Wow!  She's looking really good odf, BluEcho. 

JCM's are fun again :) Those tools have lots of potential.   So tell me your thinking on this: is it better/easier/ to do the JCM's on the low poly and transfer them to the high poly? Why?

I'm a vertex pusher, which is why I like to sculpt on low poly meshes. Wings also has magnets and such, but I rarely use them. I prefer to literally move one vertex at a time. The new tweak mode that Wings introduced recently is perfect for that.

I haven't tried 'tweaking' anything (in Wings3d LOLOL) in a while, let me know how that works.

I read through the Bolzemann FACS system. It wasn't THAT boring, but it's more for AI interaction between people and real-time computer interactions (Something I helped with on the Isaac and Longhorn systems. Meh.) so I was already mostly aware and familiar with the sytemology of the basics.

For Poser and other applications, it's unneeded and to complicated to implement.  The more piecemeal system that most figures use is apparently fine in most cases.

The only figures with any implementation of a system similiar to this is R-Man by Patorak and Eszter by Digicalemero.

Individual emotions could be dialed in in various levels to get full face expressions unlike anything else.  The implementation of these new systems was without much HOOHAH or notice and these experiments have faded from view.   Unfortunately.

I have copies of both and feel lucky to have them.  Most of the Poser public could have cared less. That one system is superior to the other is argueable at present.  The piecemeal system of facial morphs IS easier to MAKE, but does affect less of the face.

I didn't mean to say that FACS is boring. It's just that the first document about it I Googled looked a somewhat dry and tedious, and I have a short attention span. :biggrin:

I think the system Osipa describes in his book is quite similar in spirit, but simpler and optimized to work "well enough" for animation purposes. Basically, each individual morph does something your face can actually do. If you widen your lips, that movement involves a rather large part of your face, and that has to be modeled in order to get realistic result. I think the main difference to something like FACS is that he tried to identified the morphs that are most important to get a credibly "acting" character. So I imagine if I start with those I'll get something pretty workable to start from, and I can still read up on FACS and add more morphs later on if I want.

True enough. I have a short attention span now. Distract me, and what I'm doing is gone for hours or forever.

I've been doing some more work on my newest texture for her.
She has one face with no lip shade at all, just skin color.
And three faces with lip color and make-ups.
Two extra nail shades, one red and one natural, nine eye colors and two eyelash trans maps.

I have one body map all natural, no body hair and one with body hair.
I want to do one more body, special, but it's secret right now. :biggrin:

Later tonight I'll try to do some renders to show her off. :)

Thanks for uploading those templates! Very helpful indeed.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1873203

Antonia skin test rendered with SSS. Warning: Nudity abounds.

**Rodma_Hu, that is an eye-popping view. lol
But excellent work on her skin. :)
**

She's looking pretty damned good! I like the second better. The first might look more appropriate on a middle-aged Latina. She looks like a thinner version of one of my neighbors.  Add some crowsfeet and twenty to thirty pounds and she'd be a perfect clone of the lady! LOLOLOL:laugh:

Is "Antonia Full Preview 2009-04-14" the latest build available?

Quote - Is "Antonia Full Preview 2009-04-14" the latest build available?

yes

Attached Link: The Sound of war:

Quote - I just posted an image with Antonia in the Poser Gallery (hope that is okay?) and here is the link.

Of course it's okay. That's a great look for her, too.

Was it hard to get that dress to fit?

Yes, and it still had poke-thru on the sides.
So I posed her very carefully. lol.

Dunno why I stopped getting notifications, but I'm watchin' the progress once again. Looks good so far, odf, all.

When or where is she available?

Quote - When or where is she available?

There's a preview version in my file locker. When she enters the beta stage, she'll get her own web site.

Any chance of getting a preview copy? If not when do you think she will enter beta? Been watching this thread for awhile and I like to try to create some things for her myself.

Like he said, there is a version of her in his file locker
http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=2&userid=20205

Quote - Like he said, there is a version of her in his file locker
http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=2&userid=20205

Thanks did not know where his file locker was.

That "homepage" button right under his avatar and then the "artists input" tab.

It is a privilege, not a right. The price of admission is to do the research.

Quote - > Quote - Like he said, there is a version of her in his file locker

http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=2&userid=20205

 

Thanks did not know where his file locker was.

Sorry about that. I didn't mean to be obtuse.

At least that's the plan. As phantom3D mentioned, getting JCMs to work together nicely can be a pain. I might run against a brick wall. But maybe not...

It's going relatively slow at the moment, but I hope in time I'll get some practice and work faster. Also, anyone who makes conforming clothes will probably hate me for these. :lol:

Oh by the way, this is the low-poly Antonia. When I have the JCMs for the shoulders complete, I might make a quick high-poly test, but mostly I plan to work in low-poly until I have all the JCMs sculpted and working and subdivide them as the final step.

Looking good,  I like the fact that the soulder does not bulge out on the sides. I have not tried dividing and transfering morphs from low poly to high poly.  (none of my models have ever been low enough to try LOL)  But I will be following this, since I must be doing much the same soon.

I'm actually quite pleased with this. It shows that the general approach I adopted for the JCMs works: don't just fix mesh problems that occur on bending, but try to imitate how the body's surface would deform in reality. It looks like there won't be that much tweaking needed to make the JCMs work together nicely. Of course other joints might pose more problems. But I kind of doubt it, since the shoulders tend to be the parts that bend the worst in Poser figures.

i think that the inner part of yours looks like a big improvement.  i also think that you're going to need to distribute poses with her, because you have a unique rigging system that the JCMs are responding to.  if people don't pose her correctly, the JCMs won't work correctly, right?

cobaltdream: I don't think the rigging is so unusual as far as arms and legs are concerned. We have chest - collar - shoulder - forearm, and we have hip2 - thigh - shin. I think it's a good idea to pose the collars together with the shoulders, but neither the rigging nor the JCMs require that. In fact, I haven't done anything with the collar in the pictures above. The shoulder actor is the only one that's been moved.

But distributing some poses with a new figure is of course never a bad idea.

actually, V4 has been out for more than 2 years now, right?  and i don't think she has collars to pose.   so new people won't know to pose with them, V3 fans will use them pretty consistently, and people sort of in the middle won't know how much to do. 

if you haven't posed the collars at all in that, how does it look if you do use the collars?  how does it look at 50% collars, 50% shoulders?  in my experience with other figures, it matters a lot how you split bends.  and you and Phantom have been getting very noticeably better posing results than anyone else.  so i've definitely observed that there's a difference in the results depending on how you pose her.

here's a simple test:  apply V4 and V3 poses to her, and look at the results.  those will be the "norms" for most of the community.

Yes, V4 has collar bones.

Collars can make your eyes bleed!  Arrrrrrrrrgh! I am working on a new figure that has messed up collars. The thing about collars is grist for the grist-mill of the mind.  I haven't really noticed that V4 has none? I think Fisty is right.

So much for me checking into it. LOL:laugh: I'm too slow.

Given how both AIko and V3 were rigged, the thighs were screwed up by flattening out when bent it was almost a LOSE/LOSE situation for the buttocks/thighs useage.  Antonia has much better thigh bendage!

Lots of people just forgett to use the collars, I think.   Those JCM's are looking good, is it harder for low poly to make jCM's?  I found the thigh X and thigh Z the hardest to get to work well together.

Going from the HUGE number of people that are and have done "V4 shoulder fixes" around here and DAZ, I'd say that no one forgets BAD collars!:laugh: 

No one may notice when the collar groups work as nature intended, but you screw 'em up--EVERYONE NOTICES!

I caught your comment on my figure WIP in the gallery. "Interested?"  You want to see what you fix?
Any help is appreciated. You want me to shoot you a copy, send me a sitemail with an email in it.

cobaltdream: I agree that a comparison would be instructive. I'll see what I can do about that. The point I was trying to make is that with my new JCMs, there's even a wider angel range in which the shoulder bends look good than with phantom3D's original ones. So combining the shoulder and collar bends will still give more natural results, but we no longer need the collars to avoid large bend angels in the shoulders.

I also agree that we should have some poses distributed with Antonia that people can study and extend. Every figure bends a little differently, and there's some extra stuff that Antonia's rig can do and that we need to educate people about.

Fisty: Nice! I've never really looked at V4's skeleton that much. She and Antonia both have collar bones and no buttock bones. Apart from the feet and the extra hip bones in Antonia, they're really not that different. :biggrin: Maybe I'll write up a detailled comparison at some point to bring people used to V4 up to speed with Antonia.

phantom3D: I haven't made any JCMs yet for high-poly, so I can't really tell from experience wich is harder.  But as I said earlier, I like to push individual vertices, so I usually prefer to work in low-poly. Since you use ZBrush, you might actually find high-poly easier to work with.

Yes, I remember you said you had trouble with the thighs. So my optimism might be a bit premature. But I figure if I can't handle the thighs myself, I can always fall back to your excellent work.

I'm done with the shoulders now (the first version, anyway), and I'm coming to terms with the little quirks of D|S and the DAZ setup system, so my work trickle is starting to resemble a flow. I think I'll do elbows next and maybe collars, so I can show off some nice arm poses.

When I'm done with the arms, I might transfer those JCMs to high poly and see how they work.

Whenever I see V4, I wonder if I should make a family-friendly morph and texture for Antonia.

omg no!  nuter poser people for the lose!

Yeah, forget that!  First question the forums got saturated with was of the ,"OMGWTF,how do you remove that underwear?"  When V4.2 was released, nobody like the censoring.  Ppainted on undies is more obscene than a nude body.

I think so far my working hypothesis that imitating real shapes and approximating the way the skin would stretch makes for JCMs that combine well is still holding.