I decided to go with Vue 7 xStream, despite the cost. It turned out to be a mistake. I haven’t used it enough to justify the expense and when I have, it has been mainly as a standalone application. I can’t get too upset about e-on charging for the insignificant additions in version 7.5. They will be giving away the material-painting feature for free in version 7.4, and that’s the only thing that interested me on the feature list. It seems possible that version 8 won’t have enough new features to justify the price, but I’ll have to wait and see. Every new release comes with its bugs, and some of them can make the software pretty useless. It’s no wonder studios weren’t purchasing because there was no maintenance plan. I’ve never seen software that needed a maintenance plan more. (That being said, version 7 was an improvement in performance and stability and even recognized my video card!) It’s the wave of the future to make the beta-testers pay for the privilege. NewTek is doing the same with Core and has hinted about giving away the next Lightwave 9 upgrade only to those who have joined the pre-release Core club. It didn’t make a lot of people happy but time will tell what the effect will be on the cash flow.

I would like to make planets with Vue.  Vue 7.5 seems to make it easier.  But if 7.5 doesn't render planets any better than the long harder way 7 does, then I don't need 7.5 and will wait and see what 8 has.  But if I don't buy 7.5, version 8 will cost more to upgrade to.  If I buy the maintenance deal, I'm paying for something that I have no clue about that doesn't exist yet.  And I may have to re-pay again if a release is pushed back for some reason, still not knowing what the release will have in it.  It's gambling.  Plain and simple.  But nothing is forcing me to get 7.5.  7.0 works great for me except for one or two things it can't do that 7.5 won't be doing either.  So I'm more interested in what 8.0 will have in it.

I wish E-on would show off new features of their products like Luxology, DAZ, and e-frontier do before official releases.  Then you know if you want the upgrade or not.

I think it's silly to label anyone who voices their opinions against e-on as "Vue haters". It's pretty clear to me e-on has done things to deserve being called upon lately. Their prices have been going way up, their bugs and issues that Vue has keep happening, their support is consistently receiving bad comments, and so on. I love Vue, I just wish their new versions would focus more on fixing things and be more reasonably priced. It really looks like e-on has been biten by the Autodesk bug that says they can charge crazy amounts, but I'm not sure they have the monopoly that Autodesk has to force those kind of prices.

We are still sitting on the fence as to wether to buy Vue or not.
If we buy it, we will purchase the full xStream version with the maintenance package.

We use all 64 bit PC's for workstations and Our render farm.
We will be  pro user from the standpoint we will use it for production purposes.

My concern is for all the bad feelings toward e-on, and all the bugs we hear about.

I would actually like to meet with someone to buy the software, meaning I would drive or fly to where they are and make sure we will get the level of support promised.

Unfortunately it seems the hype from new releases doesnt live up to expectations, particularly given the number of bugs.

We have asked other professionals in our line of work that use Max on PC's and with one exception, they all say and perceive Vue to be very bug prone and unreliable.

I would also like to see some discount offered from e-on for high dollar purchases (Our price tag with maintenance will be around $3,500 US).

I would also like to have some recourse should the software prove unreliable to the point it becomes unusable, meaning a window of time where we could receive a refund.

There has to some reasonable solution.

Best regards,
David

Dave, how about downloading the PLE version to see yourself, on your own machine, how it goes? AND, if you want to talk to someone, how about telling us in which region of this little world you are located?

Wabe,
It is on my list of things to do (download the PLE).
One reason I have been hesitant is I had heard 7.0 was still pretty buggy as far as the max integration of xStream, and didnt want to prejudice my decision. We had tested versions 5 and 6 before and found them unusable...

We are located just north of Atlana, GA (right between Chattanooga and Atlanta actually).

Thanks,
David

Unfortunately we don't use xStream for our work we use Vue 7 Infinite so I probably not much help to you David.  However, we are very pleased with Infinite its been very stable on our machines which are i7 quads running a 64 bit OS. Most of our work is probably not as intensive as what you are doing David but we've been very happy with Vue 7 Infinite.

We most likely will install the 7.4 update and wait on 8 to see of it has more in the way features than 7.  With money so tight if 7 does the job for us we may not even go to 8 when it comes out.
My last post I was kinda working and posting so when I went back to read my post it was a little strange LOL!

I can understand why so many are upset in times like these it makes no sense to ask for more when your customers have less. And yes there are some big outfits that can lay down the cash but if the state of the world's economy continues how long will these big outfits be able to lay out the cash for big ticket items? If the everyday person is hurting it will not be long before the big guys do to you can't get water from a rock.

Quote - I think it's silly to label anyone who voices their opinions against e-on as "Vue haters".

Patrick, why don't you check out the last 50 or 60 posts of those particular guys here in the Vue forum. Try and find something they say nice about Vue. Then come to your own conclusion- I've already come to mine. 

Quote - It's pretty clear to me e-on has done things to deserve being called upon lately. Their prices have been going way up, their bugs and issues that Vue has keep happening, their support is consistently receiving bad comments

Yes, there are a few who complain about the things you mention. There also are many who are using Vue with spectacular results. Just because there are a few loud complainers, doesn't mean the program doesn't work for everyone. Furthermore, many of us have had support issues resolved in a polite and timely manner. I'm sorry you have had such disappointing results with Vue.

Everytime a new version of Vue comes out, the signal to noise ratio of the Vue complainers goes way up. It's just the way it is. A number of great artists and fine community contributors no longer spend any time here at the Vue Renderosity forums for just this reason. Certainly our loss, not theirs.

Chip,
I think it is important for people to be objective in their evaluations.

It is really easy to want someone to blame, and if you are having any problems with your software it becomes an easy target.

By the same token we as end users expect things to work as advertised and paid for.

Business models can change. A company needs to do what they need to do to stay in business. Most of us understand that. Prices go up. Mine have. It is just a fact of life.

I expect to pay a fair price for high end software. I also expect it to work. That doesnt make me a software "hater", just one with certain expectations.

Our clients expect a certain level of quality from us. If we don't deliver, they will go else where.
We as consumers have to do the same things. Unfortunatley we sometimes need to use our pocketbooks to communicate our displeasure when all else fails.

If any of us took our car to be repaired and it was not done correctly what would we do?
Would we accept it as the way it is or would we complain about it? Most reasonable people would complain and expect the situation to be rectified.

E-on does seem to have a different way of dealing with customers from what I have observed.
It can be a cultural thing as well.  I am not advocating vilifying anyone or a particular company.

Open and fair dialog is important.

I for one, speak directly regarding my observations. We were testing Ozone 4.0 Beta and the software crashed Max 24 times in one day. What should we say?  What opinions should we form from that? Isn't it fair to let others in the forums know the issues we have encountered?
We commented that the software was cool, but was a crash-fest. It was an honest evaluation.
It doesn't mean I am an E-on "hater"..

Best regards,
David

David,

I did not call you a hater.

Did you do as I ask and check out CobraEye's last 50 or 60 posts? 
Did you do the same for alexcoppo?

Please do not confuse regular complaints with someone who has a clear agenda to put down e-on and Vue every chance they have.

Chipp,
true, but Alex DOES have valid insights at times, mate, that's the difference between a "useless moaning git", and being a "grumpy git" 

What drives me cuckoo is the complete crap I read at times on the E-On forums, jeesh.
I don't mind someone blowing their stack when they paid $$$ and it's for their business and it goes to hell with bugs...
but when nitwits don't even bother to install latest updates...talk complete RUBBISH, repeatedly, without checking how things have changed between V5 or V6 versus V7
Or post "terragen, terragen!"...yes that frakkin PO's me off !! :tt2:

However I stil think E-On have made a major stumble here, and that there needs ot be fewer versions of Vue, and lowered prices. Art programs desperately need to be INCLUSIVE not EXCLUSIVE
 

Quote - David,

I did not call you a hater.

Did you do as I ask and check out CobraEye's last 50 or 60 posts? 
Did you do the same for alexcoppo?

Please do not confuse regular complaints with someone who has a clear agenda to put down e-on and Vue every chance they have.

So you say that I am wrong advertising TerraPak?

Saying that just one of its features is worth all the money it costs?

hmm really a dastardly agenda, doesn't it?

Bye!!!

P.S.: I add another unspeakable action to my sins by saying that TerraPak is one of the few addons to Vue I was absolutely and fully satisfied with (really, no sarcasm at all).

red line = current slope of price hike from verison 6 to 7
Green line, previous price increase from 5 to 6.
Now, if that slope increases AGAIN...

NOW do folk see the problem? Remember, inflationary trends are not that bloody high, we're in a recession ya know

As another example of useless, trolling, disruptive post, I advise you to...

1. have a look at one Deviantart gallery about Vue 7.5 renders (http://nukeation.deviantart.com/) and...
2. its owner blog (http://blog.quadspinner.com/).

The most recent post in blog has a link to a free video (unfortunately a 54MB zipped file) in which there is a most detailed tutorial I have ever saw for Vue about creating a desert scene; also older posts contain extremely useful information (the one I found most fascinating is creating lighting using white off-image objects and global radiosity, just like in a photo studio).

Bye from the Troll you All like to Hate!!!

Quote - The most recent post in blog has a link to a free video (unfortunately a 54MB zipped file) in which there is a most detailed tutorial I have ever saw for Vue about creating a desert scene; also older posts contain extremely useful information (the one I found most fascinating is creating lighting using white off-image objects and global radiosity, just like in a photo studio).

Thank you, Alex, for that link. It's a super blog.

Attached Link: Vue bugs and solutions(?)

Quote - David,

I did not call you a hater.

Please do not confuse regular complaints with someone who has a clear agenda to put down e-on and Vue every chance they have.

Chipp,
Sorry for the confusion, but I don't think I ever accused you of calling me a "hater" it was more of a rehtorical question.
I think you verbalize your position(s) quite well.
It was as much an indication of how I choose to conduct myself and prefer logical dialog.
There does come a point where it can just be a huge waste of time (like looking up all 50 or 60 posts by people with an opposite oppinion to yours).
You have your opinion, and others have theirs.

i have downloaded the PLE version of Vue 7.0 and will advise what I find. My intention is to use it as xStream from inside max.

Best regards and I oppologize for sounding like I was attacking you (when I get upset with people my responses are pretty short and usually indicate something they can go do to themselves)  :)

David

Hmm, I remember when the Vue7 prices where anounced I started a thread here regarding the fact that there is no real competion to E-on's Vue product, I was promptly smacked in the head back then.
E-on are in every businesses dream spot, there is no real competition
(No Bryce does not count its obsolete),
so they charge what they want (lets face it any business would).
I dont like it either, but unless someone steps into this area and supplies some competition then the price hikes have only begun.
Sadly money will always trump art guys, remember the price is only the (painful) symptom of the problem NO COMPETITION.
I'm just glad I'm not on the Maya/Max/XSI bus, a ticket to ride there is getting expensive since they where monopolised.. oops sorry, where aquired.

HA HA
What a joke as i pointed out e-on riip of firm, and after being taken for a ride by rip off 6 esprite, would not buy another.
But you fanatics on here slaged others and i off somit cronic, ha ha well jokes on you mugs.
Now ya crying boo hoo bugs in vue 7 as i said thier would but got screamed at, but now ya learn hard way about e-on rip off software.
I explained what they should have done and they could have stuck with 3 versions for people but no rip off time.
So dont bitch and cry, ya bloody was warned by others and i about what would happen but ya screamed abuse at us.
Well tough luck dont bitch and wine ya eyes out and must admit at least Bruno021 sticking to his guns and admire that.
You big headed fools were the brains of the universe, well ya shown ya self up.
Dont cry you fanatics, you  got what ya deserve.

 People who want the upgrade will pay, people who don't want it won't (and we all will complain about the price boo hoo).  It has got bugs but it still does what no other software can do, so I am not unhappy about owning vue.  I am happy to have this software still.
Love esther

After seeing some technical issues fixed with cloud rendering, I'll be buying 7.5.

I haven't been a Vue user as long as some in here. I started out with Vue 6 Esprit, then to Pro Studio, then to Vue 6 Infinite and finally Vue 7. I like Vue very much I used to be a heavy poser user but when Vue came along in my 3D life I used it more and not just for work but for my own personal rendering. I knock on wood that I haven't experienced many of the problems as some (great I have just jinked myself) Vue, in any of the versions I've used and own, has always been a stable platform the only times I've had trouble with it is when it was my fault because it was something I needed to learn.

I understand that it feels wrong that E-ON would be raising prices in this economic time the same was said when Vue 7 came out. Like Esther people that want it will buy it and people who don't or can't afford to will not. All I wanted to point out from my personal view was I wanted to compare 7.5 to Vue 8 and see what features are there. If the two have the same features or if 8 has more I would want to wait for Vue 8 in the end it's going to cost you the same from what I've read and understood.

Well, I don't have $395 for the maintenance fee.  But I do have $295 for the 7.5 upgrade.

Vue is old dinosaur software and the render time can attest to this.  I bet e-on sells vue any day now with this economy.  I've been hearing  rumors for awhile.

These desperate throws to collect absurd amounts of money for almost no new features is astonishing IMO. 

I won't be caught holding the vue ball when they sell.

I'll keep my current working versions of poser and vue until I see some fair offers from these companies and the same goes for Microsoft.

These software companies in general are becoming out of control with these updates/upgrades/sidegrade nonesense.

surely you want e-on to sell vue since they are so terrible?  or are you just whining for the sake of it?

Quote - Vue is old dinosaur software and the render time can attest to this. 

:biggrin:

cough Excuse me, have you actually got Vue7 and run it on a decent PC, hm?
I think obviously NOT!!! :tt2:
Renders are a hell of a lot faster than in previous versions. Most of my renders are now in 1680x1050 at very high User settings, takes 2 to 6 hours ot render them at that, or an hour at Superior, usually, WITH radiosity.

Don't confuse my anger at how E-On's messed up (or how they've just not been on the ball, customer wise), with wanting to listen to someone talking out of their posterior orifice about the actual facts of Vue, lol!!***

**

Vue is hardly a Dinosaur.  That's what Bryce is for.

An hour to render?
Woah...
I am not impressed at all.
We do animations, at an hour a frame, it would take forever to get them rendered.

Surely there is some faster setting?

yikes....

David

Quote - An hour to render?
Woah...
I am not impressed at all.
We do animations, at an hour a frame, it would take forever to get them rendered.

If you have 3600 computers you can render an hour of animation per day! :)

Quote - An hour to render?
Woah...
I am not impressed at all.
We do animations, at an hour a frame, it would take forever to get them rendered.

David,
Surely since you're in the professional business of rendering animations you already know:

1. Frame rendertimes depend on what you're rendering, what the output resolution is, what the render settings are, what the speed of the computer, how many computers you have on your network renderfarm and how soon the client needs the product. 

2. Then there are a number of paid for renderfarm services. The Ranch (www.ranchcomputing.com) is one that comes to mind. Frederic there does an excellent job of providing a very easy to use and reasonably priced online render service for Vue products. For instance, a Vue 7 animation which would take an entire week (7 days x 24 hours) on a Core 2 Extreme QX6850 (64-bit quad-core), would be rendered in around 2 hours on the RANCH.

3. And you probably know many Disney movies and commercial animations can take an hour a frame.

4. Typically, there are ways to shorten render times, as there are ways to increase them. It's all in the trade-offs one is willing to make, and one's understanding of how the program works.

Hope this helps,
C

Chipp,
I have my own render farm comprised of Dual Quad Core Xeons running 64 bit OS's.

It was just the shock of someone thinking an hour a frame was good (no offense, it just struck me as way over the top.

Even on our old farm that was made up of single and dual core machines, 15 minutes was an eternity.

David

No offense taken. I suspect you don't have much experience with Vue renders. I suppose I had the same response when I first heard Terragen renders can take over a week. Even so, I found out later, it really depends on the TG scene and settings. Some TG renders are done in minutes, just as is the case with Vue.

Depending on scene and settings, if you use radiosity, you can set it up to not have to calculate radiosity for each render, thus saving considerable time. Also, spectral 2 clouds take longer to render than spectral clouds which take longer to render than 'regular' clouds. Different levels of anti-aliasing as well as other settings can affect render times significantly.

Even so, if you use the five render licenses which come with Vue, and a typical frame renders in an hour, it will render in 12 minutes on your renderfarm. Not too bad.

Everyone should be (relatively) happy when they read eon's latest newsletter - it answers all questions brought up in this thread.

In summary - the maintenance plan is guaranteed to cover the release of v8, regardless of timing or when you first bought your v7 software, and upgrades for Infinite will be $295 whether you choose to go from 7 to 8 ($295), or from 7 to 7.5 ($295), and then 7.5 to 8 ($295). So the maintenance plan becomes and excellent deal :)

Xstream upgrades are $495

Quote - Business models can change. A company needs to do what they need to do to stay in business. Most of us understand that. Prices go up. Mine have. It is just a fact of life.

Well, that's just the problem. Prices in general have gone down, due to the recession. Houses are cheaper, cars are, fuel is, even computers are. Most software I've bought lately has been priced less then it was a year ago. I had some applications on my wishlist and I'm finally able to buy them due to price drops. Except for Vue, the price is going up and up for no apearant  reason at all.

Quote - I expect to pay a fair price for high end software. I also expect it to work. That doesnt make me a software "hater", just one with certain expectations.

I agree completely and it's the main reason I haven't upgraded to the next version of Vue. I guess for them being high-end means they can charge more, but deliver less.

I've waited with upgrading to infinite until I got a decent computer that can handle Vue comfortably. I've got that now, but due to the rise in price I lost the urge to upgrade. I'll stick to the low end versions of Vue.

If you want to sell in hard times, lower your prices. If you want to go under in hard times then raise prices. Simple economy. The way E-on is going, they'll be out of business soon and they can only blame themselves for that.

On render times:
well if you are doing SCANLINE rendering of course it's a hell of a lot quicker!! :) Vue is purely ray tracing. ALso, note the size I render at, 1680x1050, with radiosity, at very high settings. I'm not rendering frames, I'm rendering stills, veyr big difference! :)

And as Chipp notes, render times vary enormously. Some folk are good at tweaking render settings vs the scene, it's an art itself and makes a huge difference.
Me, I don't mind it taking many hours, but less than a day, as I want a beautiful final still.

Hm, guess I'll need ot buy the maintenance plan. Rather not, as I think it's a waste of E-On's time having so many folk able to demand more help, but that's a potentially a great saving for when v8 comes out, and on my budget, damn right i think of the future :p

I'm very happy to have received E-Ons' latest newsletter with the price clarifications.

I, for one, am in the process of learning VUE and the xStream enviroment and how it all works together.  For me, the upgrade price to xStream 8 ($495) is fair, as I do not need the expedited maintenance plans.

If E-On maintains this separation between the commercial and hobyist uses of VUE & xStream, I can live with that.   When I'm ready to go commercial, I can step up to the maintenance plans when ready.

To E-On ... "Thanks for the clarification".  It would have been easier on all the users' "blood pressure" had this clarification been included in the original notice.  LOL  Would have saved a lot of electrons in the forums.  (Well - they are at recyclable according to Vladimir.  I can't say that about "my" time on this topic though...)

Yep but still the upgrade from 6 to 7 is way to much, like

Quote - I suspect you don't have much experience with Vue renders.

 
No I don't. The only Vue experience I have is with Ozone, and the attempts I have made to try Vue 5 and 6.

Quote - Depending on scene and settings, if you use radiosity, you can set it up to not have to calculate radiosity for each render, thus saving considerable time. Also, spectral 2 clouds take longer to render than spectral clouds which take longer to render than 'regular' clouds. Different levels of anti-aliasing as well as other settings can affect render times significantly.

That makes sense.

Quote - Even so, if you use the five render licenses which come with Vue, and a typical frame renders in an hour, it will render in 12 minutes on your renderfarm. Not too bad.

Here we'll just have to disagree. Even rendering with very high settings in Max, a very long frame is 5 minutes (per frame) on the Dual Quads

I had read that using Mental Ray and Vue xStream was pretty good as far as render times, but the battle using xStream just wasn't worth it (I'll spare you all the re-hashed items).

My plan at this point is to wait for someone that already owns Vue and uses xStream, to install 7.5 and see if it is any better. Right now all I have is negative feed back (closer to RUN AWAY) from current users.

btw it is a bit of a diversionary tactic to compare to other poor performing software and claim "at least we aren't as bad as them".
If the feedback from 7.4 and 7.5 users (using xStream) is positive, I will likely buy Vue.
If it is not, then I highly doubt I will buy it.

David

Quote - btw it is a bit of a diversionary tactic to compare to other poor performing software and claim "at least we aren't as bad as them".

I suppose you're referring to the TG comparison. It was not meant as diversionary, but to point out the problem with your perceptions, and how I had the same problem, but realized how silly I was after learning more about the TG program.

Just wondering, can your Max program really render multiple trillion polygon scenes, with radiosity, full spectral skys, infinite procedural terrains with millions of unique plants and combined wind effects, in 5 minutes? If so, then I have no idea why you would be in this forum. If not, then you're not comparing apples to apples.

Chipp has a point here, David. Vue can render thousands of unique trees blowing in the breeze, physically accurate skies and clouds (which shape and direction animate too), with advanced lighting models. I'm not too sure  Max/ MR  can do it ( at least I know  C4D can't).
If you are considering buying Vue, my guess is it is for those unique features, otherwise, you'd simply throw in a few modelled trees and an MR sky, but the resulting environment wouldn't be as rich as Vue's.
So a frame like this won't render in 5mn, this is for sure. But the question is: will the final animation win you the client without the Vue environment in such a competitive market?
Maybe it is worth spending twice the rendering time for the project?

As a hobbyist, I feel as though I am being forced to step down to a lower version of the software, or ultimately just give it up altogether. I have 6 Infinite now, but have already had to pass on upgrading to 7 Infinite due to job loss. The next upgrade, if I skip 7 Infinite, will be even pricier (based on what happened to people using 5 Infinite who had skipped upgrading to 6 Infinite but wanted to go to 7 Infinite when it came out), so I guess I am just going to have to give up. I just upgraded my Adobe CS2 Photoshop to CS4 for a reasonable upgrade price. I don't know why e-on can't be the same. Reasonable. It does seem that e-on are doing their best to lose hobbyist business. :(

I eagerly read all the making-of posts/articles I can find.

For real movie work, 1+ hour per frame is absolutely normal. Hollywood frame sizes are much larger than the ones we are accustomed but they usually work with Renderman compliant engines, which are scanline+some raytracing when needed, so they are faster than a raytracing+radiosity engine like Vue. As comparison, in the Maxwell/VRay etc. world, a 24 hour render for one image is normal.

The message is that Vue render times are in line with what is currently feasible so, if you want to create professional animations you can either

1. rent a renderfarm or...
2. build your own renderfarm or...
3. forget about doing animations .

W.r.t. to E-On being bought, the only potential customer is Autodesk. Should this happen, we all would fondly remember the good ol' times in which a price hike was "just" a few hunderd dollars...

Bye!!!

Cool.  I can wait for version 8 then for $295.  Maybe the trend will be maintenance customers get ".5" updates while everyone else have to wait.

Chipp,
[quoteJust wondering, can your Max program really render multiple trillion polygon scenes, with radiosity, full spectral skys, infinite procedural terrains with millions of unique plants and combined wind effects, in 5 minutes? If so, then I have no idea why you would be in this forum. If not, then you're not comparing apples to apples.

Nice....

I am here to learn about Vue and xStream from people that use it already.
I use Max for it's stability and performance. It works, day in, day out. (Using max 2009 now, Max 2010 is on the shelf waiting for SP1 to be released). Max 2008 was garbage. Crashed all the time. Max 9 was great. I own C4d but dont use it.

**Software is a tool, not a religion.
**
Max cannot do what you have described which is another reason why I am here.
If it means that to get what you have described, I have to endure instability or long render times then Vue is not for me. My industry and clients won't tollerate it. You can make all the excuses you want for a software (rhetorical btw). I just want relaibility, stability and relatively good speed.
Max is not the end all, be all product. Only a fool would make such a claim. It does most of what I need it to do, has a tremendous amount of plugins available for it and has boosted my company's abilities and avenues.
My hope is (and I really hope it is) would be that xStream can be another major boost.

Too bad any comment less than "singing the praises of Vue"  is considered full of vile and contempt. They really arent intended as jabs

If I were in your position I would probably defend the company I sell add ons for too.
That is not a slam in any way shape or form. I am saying I would do it too.
Hopefully it wouldnt be with the same tenacity, but then I have not walked in your shoes.

Relax a little, I am not here to offend you..

David

David,

I just got a note that Xfrog vegetation pluggins is a free download for Max.
http://www.renderosity.com/news.php?viewStory=14563&AID=408

Maybe that is what you are looking for.

One addtitional comment to EVERYONE:
Posting in these forums is like text messaging.  Few words mean a lot and can be miss interpreted because the way they are written is like speaking but without hearing the other voice.  Very easily missunderstood.

Just my observation - not a judgement on anyone please.  I get the feeling that some people have been painted with a tar brush (or are in the process) without a bit of understanding.   Alex Coppo just came out with something NICE to say about VUE.  Again... I'm not taking sides here... LOL

Thanks for the link.
We are still using 2009 and that plugin is for max 2010.

I really try hard to wait for the first service pack for max versions or atleast a hotfix.
Bugs annoy me (although that may be obvious by now).

As far as words typed and their impact...
Cant we all just get along?

Like I said, software is a tool, not a religion.

David

David,

I do not comprehend why you want to buy xStream right off the bat.  Yeah - it is/can be buggy for the first few service packs.  In your workflow, just test & re-test the patched up demo until you feel you can effectively use it in production.  Then buy it.  Seems E-On patch the demo with a little time lag compared to the production version.

I wish I was in your shoes.  You can pick your entry point.  I've been upgrading since VUE4 and do not want to loose my foot in the door.  To spend $1500 without income to write it off against is a "pain" I do not want to endure.  It's cheaper for me to upgrade the full point versions.

There are a few tutorials around that show how to use xStream with Max.  Check out this thread:
http://www.geekatplay.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=308

...Cheers

Quote - David,

I do not comprehend why you want to buy xStream right off the bat.

I am not sure I understand your comment.
If I buy xStreme it will be for the features and power.

Thanks,
David

What I am trying to say is that if I were you, I would play the demo to death to make sure that it did what I wanted it for before I purchased it.  The demo is literaly a "gift" from E-On for you to test the hell out of the program to make sure that it works for you.

By using the demo, you get the full version of xStream to test and make work with your workflow.  If it works for what you want - great - buy it.  If there are issues, see if you can get them solved/resolved to get your workflow to production stage.  Then, when you feel it is ready for production - only then - purchase it.

As far as I know, the only limitation of the demo version of xStream is the limited size of renders and a water mark.  Which should be fine for testing.

Does that clear up my comment?

BTW - I hope that others "pave the path for me".  Less pain I have to endure the better.  :D
(For the life of me I can't figure out how to put "smileys" into my post.  Must be a simple thing - otherwise I'd understand it.)

Ah I it now.
I have downloaded the demo but have not installed it.

My intentions for buying it would be to buy the premium service package so they HAVE to help me...

You are right in your point about wringing out the demo..

As soon as I get some spare time..
Working on a plane crash right now...

David