Here's the link to the latest e-on newsletter.
http://www.e-onsoftware.com/about/newsletter/

Now I have no economics background of any sort, but in digesting the entirety of the announcement I am left with the impression that e-on needs money.  With the strong push for their maintainance plans and the big sale on V7Espirit, I am trying to see a more positive side to this letter.

What are you thoughts on this?

They're not getting any of my money for the 7.5 upgrade !

The economy is still "down" - and companies/people are pushing to try to fel more secure.  One good thing about a recession - lots more sales on!

i don't think they're hurting... or if they are, that its drastic. 

but i could be wrong...

personally, i think they did a bad marketing move on their part by making 7.5 a paid for upgrade (unless you shelled out a lot more $$ for a maintenance plan - and some, such as myself, cannot afford that)... I sing Vue's praises... and even have more patience with E-on than i do any other company - but THIS whole thing - was a crock of crap.  it could possibly be backfiring and biting them in the tukus.

i'll wait for 8... or even 9.

I don't sense that they're stuggling for cash as much as they are trying to implement a business model that's more in line with what the rest of the industry is doing such as offering a professional line of products with maintenance and a more predictable, regular release cycle (e.g. one majoir release per year instead of one every 2 years).  I think the Esprit offer is an attempt to get Pioneer users to move up.  I actually like the fact that e-on is now commiting to include Version 8 with the purchase of maintenance. 

Wondering when we get our 7.4 upgrade, not seeing it on  the site. I'm a little ticked that I bought 7 less than a month ago, would have waited if I'd known they were doing this and bought 7.5

I don't feel any "struggling" on part of E-On, I feel the same icy self-assurance that Autodesk has in the high range.

With the proposed price structure, the only sensible option for Infinite users is to subscribe the maintenance program (which separates even more not the product capabilities, but the population of users who can access Infinite).

When all the competitors are years away from offering equivalent solutions, you can employ Darth Vader in the customers relations department...

Bye :sad:

I think your common sense knows the answer to this question.

And the fact that is is very obvious.

I remember when Vue was affordable.

It seems to me e-on knows that bringing in new users is hard. 
That leaves their income to the people that upgrade.

The Maintenance Plan is e-on's clever way to make its "upgraders" pay "new user prices" by making them pay twice in a year.

The other thing is Cornucopia 3D.  How many returning customers do you think they have?
After I bought a few items I didn't want to return.  To list the reasons is too many.

So yes, e-on's time will come to a close and they are desperate IMO.  And the World Economy in the tank is only making it worse.

I have my own buisness, so buying vue is a tax write off. I usually buy, but with this economy
I have to be vigil or I'll end up like e-on,

"Out of touch with its customer's base in what they are willing to pay."

Mazak

Mazak

"irregardless of the effective start date and initial subscription period of their maintenance program."

When I read this line for the first time, I was under the impression that the person (or persons) who wrote the newsletter was not incredibly familiar with the English language. The construction "irregardless" is a double negative. It means, essentially, ir (not) regardless (without regard) = some measure of regard.

If it is intentional, however, I would imagine that e-on could claim that there was never any actual guarantee that a customer would be able to upgrade to  version 8 for free, if the said customer's maintenance plan expired before its release. 

But, what do I know?

Hey Mazak, please tell me you can add more then one planetary body in the scene. I want to see a few moons in the skies at ground level or a nifty sci-fi scene in space.

Wow.  These are some great responses and I especially agree with Burdick.  I didn't think about the Pioneer users and e-ons attempt to get them to upgrade.  I also love anjofilms response.  I spotted that also and though: They should have used irrespective.  They could have avoided looking.........ignant!

Icy cold self assurance:  Now that could not have been better stated.

Yep, I also winced at  'irregardless'. LOL. Probably not a bad idea to have someone proof read-- even so, the content of the newsletter, IMO, was positive. Upgrade to 8.0 from 7.0 for only $295. Purchase a maintenance agreement and download immediately the 7.5 beta, then upgrade to 8.0 for free-- all for $395. Not bad. Certainly not as bad as some were thinking.

It's clear e-on wants to promote subscription plans for the professional line. And historically, they have always offered periodic discounts for Esprit.  At $129 for the next couple weeks, it's a great deal. Plus they have some pretty good upgrade pricing from Vue 6 Easel and Esprit. So, my guess is it's just business as usual.

Btw, it looks like there won't be any release of any Vue (Esprit, Pro, Complete, Infinite) 7.4 until 7.5 is released, which it's not yet. So, if one wants those features now, the only way to get them is through the Infinite (xStream)  maintenance agreement. That said, it is clear 7.5 is still considered beta software.

Quote - What are you thoughts on this?

Other software companies have gone the route that E-on is choosing.  I think the CEOs all went to a trade show recently and sat in on one of the more motivational panel discussions on how to make money. It's the nature of business.  CEOs are hiring life coaches now so they can take time off for themselves and not have worries about day to day business stuff.  It's also another way to make a company look more financially sound for buyers.  Now if E-on sells off Vue before version 8 is released, I'll be upset.  I couldn't afford paying $3,000 for Vue 8.  They did (sort of) promise that version 8 will still be offered at the $295 price though.  :)

The price will probably be more like $395 for me because I like having the box and discs and printed book.

Quote - Hey Mazak, please tell me you can add more then one planetary body in the scene. I want to see a few moons in the skies at ground level or a nifty sci-fi scene in space.

You can setup your scene to an basic Spherical scene or to an Planet scene. I don't think you can place infinite planets all over your scene. (I paste a short sequence from 7.5 manual for explanation.)

Spherical Terrains
Vue 7.5 can now create scenes in which all infinite planes and all infinite parametric terrains are
spherical. Once you define a scene as being spherical, the existing and added infinite planes and
terrains automatically assume that shape.
There are two kinds of spherical scenes:
• The basic spherical scene.
• The planet spherical scene.
In a basic spherical scene, the scene is limited to a piece of a sphere. With this type of scene,
terrains have the same look as a flat terrain with the same altitude function when viewed closer to
ground level. In addition, you also have a mid-range view of a planet, as from a lower altitude
orbit. This mode is more limited but allows you to have a spherical terrain with the same look as
the flat associated terrain,
In a planet spherical scene, you have a whole planet drifting in space. However, the spherical
terrains are a bit different from flat infinite terrains in that the altitude function is evaluated in three
dimensional space to maintain continuity on the whole planet.
In both modes, the center of the world is set at the position (0,0,-radius). This means that the zero
of the scene is at the "north pole" of the planet.
Creating and Manipulating a Spherical Terrain
To create a spherical terrain, enable the spherical scene
option on the Units & Coordinates tab in the Options
dialog. If you are creating a planet, you also have the option
of setting the scene radius, which is really the size of the
planet.
Basic Spherical Scene
In the basic spherical scene you are working with a curved
portion of a planet. Atmospheres and object placement
follow the same rules as for infinite procedural terrains.
The easiest way to create a basic spherical scene is to open
a new scene and add an infinite terrain. Then, on the
Options Panel, Units & Coordinates tab, select to create a
spherical scene and enter the size.
Now, you can landscape your terrain just as you would an infinite terrain. Keep in mind that you
will probably be viewing this terrain from a greater height than you normally would view a terrain.
Options dialog - Creating a
Spherical Terrain
Vue 7.5 Infinite & xStream – Reference Manual – User Guide
201
Planet Spherical Scenes
The planet spherical scene takes all of your infinite planes
and creates an entire sphere, or a planet. If you have an
empty scene with just an atmosphere and a ground plane,
the ground plane becomes the sphere. If you would then
add an infinite procedural terrain to the scene, this infinite
terrain replaces the ground plane and becomes the sphere.
Of course, the terrain geometry will appear differently than
it would as a flat infinite terrain. To increase the height of
the terrain for a planet spherical terrain, use the numeric Z
position field in the Object Properties panel. Please read the
tutorial on Creating a Planet (page 533) for an illustration of his topic.
Spherical terrains have the same properties as an infinite procedural terrain. However, when a
spherical terrain is moved on Z-axis, its radius is also increased to keep the terrain attributes
consistent.
In planet mode, the global translation gizmo has two modes. When you work on the whole planet,
it can be easier to move the objects along the latitude and longitude axes of the planet. Therefore, a
button has been added near the gizmo to switch to latitude-longitude mode instead of X-Y mode.
This option is also available in the display menu

Mazak

So no "When Worlds Collide" renders without post work.

Mazak

Mazak

Mazak

Mazak

 Oh boy......

Thanks for the info, Mazak. -That- is going to be a cool feature....and if I read correctly, then the infinite sphericals produce more and more terrain detail as you zoom in....which means with a little post, honest to God re-entry animations and swooping down low over the world you skydive into. Is that correct?

Yes the ground terrain shrink down closer you go. It is dynamic.

Mazak

Now that is looking mighty nifty. Thank you for the information.     :)

Quote -
It's also another way to make a company look more financially sound for buyers.  Now if E-on sells off Vue before version 8 is released, I'll be upset.  I couldn't afford paying $3,000 for Vue 8

This is the nightmare scenario for Vue world, as currently only Autodesk has the money and the business case buy it. There more than enough examples of what happens to product lines when they are assimilated...

Bye...

Just FYI

dictionary.reference.com/browse/irregardless

Unusual choice of phrase but not technically incorrect :biggrin:

Quote - "When Worlds Collide" is possible.

Mazak

Great news!

Quote - Yes the ground terrain shrink down closer you go. It is dynamic.

Mazak

Oooooh, goody! Just the excuse I need to upgrade the beast!

Hm...once I'm finished with this Neverwinter Nights 2 game gonna have ot try planetary low orbits with me Spelljamming ship models ;)
(games, are alas, my one weakness!!...after chocolate...and babes, etc etc :p) 

I want to do planets now.  But don't want to wait until 8 comes out.  Number crunching to see if I can afford Vue maintenance "and" modo 401 on next months bill.

Let's see, we started with a question of economics need for E-ON and ended with planets and along the way checked out the word irregardless (which incidentally is not a word -or wasn't at one time).   LOL  There is a business term for what  E-ON may be facing and that is "cash flow".   If E-ON is having a cash flow problem then the maintenance program may have been their answer to that problem.  It's hard to understand where exactly E-ON is going because they have stated that the upgrade from 7 to 8 is the same cost as 7 to 7.5.  But if they offer a maintenance program that gives the end user both then cash comes in.   Just a guess.  This latest twist by E-ON has a whole bunch of people up in arms.   A check of this forum reveals that!   I myself will have to wait until my business upgrades all my equipment .   That depends on Microsofts new operating system.   AND that is another story!   :)

Interesting that e-on has released the 7.5 Beta, before even telling us exactly what's going to be in 7.4

Seems to me that the Vue 7.2 Inf users have been abandoned for more money; and so soon after the release of Vue 7 Inf

Hope I'm wrong here; then again maybe Vue 7 Inf was a big mistake and they're rewriting the whole application, ready for version 8.

While not necessarily easy to find, 7.4 features have been posted on their feature comparison page for some time now. 

http://www.e-onsoftware.com/products/vue/vue_7_infinite/index.php?page=14&BaseProduct=Vue%207%20Infinite

It's getting more and more clear, the Infinite line is for professionals who can afford the subscription plan. To this end, they have made  pretty decent offer:

Pay now for the maintenance plan, and get immediate access to the 7.5 beta (by all reports suprisingly stable), then when 7.5 ships you also receive it. And then when 8.0 ships, you also get it as well. All for $395. Not too bad. And if you don't want any of this, then they will be rolling many of the 7.5 features into 7.4, which is a free upgrade to 7.0.

I have the beta 7.5, and it's not a rewrite of the whole application. Furthermore, I seriously doubt they would rewrite the whole application for 8.0, especially when they are talking about it being a free upgrade for those who purchase maintenance plans.

Thanks for the link Chipp! Looks promising.  :-)

Mazak

Mazak

Mazak

I'm still dealing with preview renders and final renders not knowing what the selected color to use is in 7.21.

Quote - by all reports suprisingly stable .

Surprisingly? why surprisingly? is this because all previous/current  versions are so full of bugs and crushes? but I thought you(and a very few others) were of the opinion that they were OK? hardly any show stoppers? not worth bothering e-on to fix them?

Now I know what you really think...

Quote - Surprisingly? why surprisingly? is this because all previous/current  versions are so full of bugs and crushes? but I thought you(and a very few others) were of the opinion that they were OK? hardly any show stoppers? not worth bothering e-on to fix them?

Now I know what you really think...

Pnina, 1. 7.5 is beta software-- by definition beta software has bugs in it.

1. Even though beta, it 'feels' like a realeased version to me, and others have given it high marks as well.

Those are the points I was trying-- albeit unsuccessful in your mind-- to infer with my simple comment.

Chipp - yeh I didnt get the emphasis on a beta even though you said it, my apologies! I guess the balance in the e-on universe is maintained - for you the 7.5 beta feels like a released version. For me v7complete feels like less than a beta version :( Another week gone, not the slightest progress in making it any more workable.

Quote - and here in 7.5 pre release.... is it a bug or a new feature I don't know. But this will cause much trouble. :rolleyes:

Mazak

I think in 7.5 e-on did in fact change how diffuse light color works for all indirect lighting models.  It now relies exclusively on what you set the "overall skylight color" to.  This makes more sense to me as the additional "Light Color" box is redundant.  To change the color to your original blue, set the Overall Skylight Color.

I agree the Pre-Release is more a release candidate than a beta Sometimes I wish e-on make it more clear what are new features and what not. I have to learn that with every new Vue releases I must change my work flow. :closedeyes:

Mazak

In an ideal world (a world where developers have the last word, not managers/marketdroids/bean counters), the tags would be:

Development Builds
something that only developers do touch... and only to develop code.

Alpha
the program is taking shape, feature list is still incomplete/being changed. Bugs abound. Final user should only toy with it to get fealing of the GENERAL direction the software is taking.

Beta
the feature list is final, there are bugs but the program is released to a wide population in order to test it and pinpoint/exterminate as many bugs as possible. Use for production work only if you like doing things over and over after crashes.

Gamma/Release Candidate
the program should be ready for release. Check everything (especially do regression testing on all bugs found). Use on production work if you like living on the bleeding edge.

Gold/Release
the copy of the program you send (used to send) to setup CD duplication.

Unfortunately, as wrote at start, tagging in the software business is marred by political/marketing issues and therfore you can expect a general shift of tags (e.g. what is labelled Beta should in fact be called Alpha).

Bye...

dburdick You genius! Thats it! I changed the overall skylight color to exact same as in 7.21 light color. That fix it. Only the glass spheres look slight different. But this is not a show stopper Chipp would say.  :laugh:

Mazak

Quote - Chipp - yeh I didnt get the emphasis on a beta even though you said it, my apologies!

Certainly, no problem.

Quote - I guess the balance in the e-on universe is maintained - for you the 7.5 beta feels like a released version. For me v7complete feels like less than a beta version :( Another week gone, not the slightest progress in making it any more workable.

Ouch, now that just hurts my feelings. I spent a lot of time testing your bugs, finding some workarounds and posting explanations to help make your problems a bit more 'workable.' So, I thought we had made some progress. No?

Quote - > Quote -

I think in 7.5 e-on did in fact change how diffuse light color works for all indirect lighting models.  It now relies exclusively on what you set the "overall skylight color" to.  This makes more sense to me as the additional "Light Color" box is redundant.  To change the color to your original blue, set the Overall Skylight Color.

dburdick You genius! Thats it! I changed the overall skylight color to exact same as in 7.21 light color. That fix it. Only the glass spheres look slight different. But this is not a show stopper Chipp would say.  :laugh:

Mazak

I think if you turn down the SkyDome lighting gain just a tad, the results would be identical - also the use of your 'Use Indirect Lighting" will have an effect as well.

Quote -

Ouch, now that just hurts my feelings. I spent a lot of time testing your bugs, finding some workarounds and posting explanations to help make your problems a bit more 'workable.' So, I thought we had made some progress. No?

Oh no - I need to apologize a second time in one day...
Sorry, that really wasnt a dig at you at all. I said straight away that I appreciate the amount of work you put into looking at my reported bugs. Unfortunately I've already put in at least as much  work into it before I even reported them and I went through all the suggestions in the thread for what could have caused  the bugs and how to work around them - they are still problems. I dont think anyone but e-on can help, and they are not. My comment here was with regard to the fact that I didnt get any more responses from e-on in the past week. 
I didnt use vue last week, but as soon as I started again  I discovered I have a bug I didnt encounter before - if I change the morphs in poser and let vue update the scene, the new morphs arnt updated, it looks the same. I havnt sorted the details of this one yet so I havnt reported it, maybe others did...
Anyone knows when 7.4 is supposed to be released - maybe it will all be solved then?

Well I found ONE bug in v 7.5 but that's cause I do weird and kinky things with it! :D
I was surprised in how stbale it was as I was wincing eveyr time I did complex things in case it would crash....only once and thas as noted cause of one odd scene and issue.

Chipp
a question for ya or anyone with 7.5 :)
have you tried comparing render speeds, of a scene rendered at high altittude WITHIN or around clouds in a spherical wolrd, not a terrain spehrical, just a ground plane spherical?
I found such a scene extremely slow to render (I turned off the 7.5 cloud shadow stuff to see if that was cause, nope it isn't), 
Maybe it's partof the over all bug I've had with that one scene, it's very very laggy and slow, yet anything else is fine
scratches head

Steve,

Sorry, I haven't spent much time rendering a spherical world yet. When I get a chance, I'll take a peek.

Pnina,

I don't know when 7.4 will be released. Also, to my knowledge, no one knows when 7.5 will be released. I suspect 7.4 will be released AFTER 7.5, but I really don't know.

Quote - Well I found ONE bug in v 7.5 but that's cause I do weird and kinky things with it! :D

This is good to hear. I wish more of the testers would do weird and kinky things in Vue to really test for bugs. I recently reported a bug which became apparent after doing one of the tutorials from the V7I manual. E-on confirmed the bug but it makes me wonder what the testers actually do when they are testing. Do they just do the same sort of stuff they normally do in their artwork or do they venture into the "weird and kinky" stuff which is out of their normal box or even work through some of the tutorials in the E-on manual?

I have no idea of beta testing software so it would be interesting to know the process and how many of the bugs are left undetected until customers (all customers of software, not just E-on's customers) find them.

Quote - While not necessarily easy to find, 7.4 features have been posted on their feature comparison page for some time now. 

http://www.e-onsoftware.com/products/vue/vue_7_infinite/index.php?page=14&BaseProduct=Vue%207%20Infinite
It's getting more and more clear, the Infinite line is for professionals who can afford the subscription plan. To this end, they have made  pretty decent offer:

Pay now for the maintenance plan, and get immediate access to the 7.5 beta (by all reports suprisingly stable), then when 7.5 ships you also receive it. And then when 8.0 ships, you also get it as well. All for $395. Not too bad. And if you don't want any of this, then they will be rolling many of the 7.5 features into 7.4, which is a free upgrade to 7.0.

I have the beta 7.5, and it's not a rewrite of the whole application. Furthermore, I seriously doubt they would rewrite the whole application for 8.0, especially when they are talking about it being a free upgrade for those who purchase maintenance plans.

Chip,

I agree with most comments that it is acceptable pricing for what you get with the upgrade/subscription plan. Some people complain about their pricing of the program itself being unreasonable or out of line, but as I have stated before, I really don't think it is. The reason I say this is because e-on like most other companies are having some hard times right now and it may take a good 5 years or so to turn things around. Companies such as e-on that make specialty software feel it even more so because 3D art programs like it are not as mainstream as say Photoshop that has a lot more resources. Therefore, if they want to keep their head above water then making it the price it is for the high-end versions is understandable and so is the subscription program which I find within reason too. Otherwise, we may find ourselves going without for a while until another company buys them or takes over the program fully.

In terms of the re-write you mention, I do know that for a while now there has been some brief talk from e-on that version 8 may have an overhaul. To what extent it is not yet known or revealed, if they were even to do so with the downturn. Companies like this typically have only a couple of core programmers that are full time with others hired as needed. That is why I don't think too much may be done in time for version 8 like they may have thought before the economic downturn.