Has anyone heard or read anything to indicate that Poser 8 is in development?  SM seems very quiet on the subject; it's been a while since got a new version.  I was just wondering if Poser has a future or will Daz/Studio eventually completely replace it.  Daz/Studio 3 is going to be released in pay for versions that will essentially have virtually all the features of Poser 7. 

Any thoughts anyone?

In all likelihood there will be a Poser 8. Poser is too big a money-maker to be allowed to die out.

i hope for samples under raytraced shadows options.
i hope for a better fastscattter node that works with raytraced shadows.
i hope that we will be able to choose what lights to use on figures and objects
i hope for better hair. lets be realistic guys. this hair is old as the bible.
i hope for better posing tools.

I'm sure I saw a thread on here not too long ago asking what people want put into Poser8, not sure if it was official though.

Well we can turn this into a wish list.  What I wish for:

1.  Ability find models via keyword searches like Finder in Daz Studio.

2.  A revamped interface with less wasted space; replace the Poser dials with sliders.

3.  Better native Poser figures; I've been very dissapointed with the Poser figures from Version 6 on.  I think they need to ditch James and Jesse, Simon and Sydney and do something entirely new.

i hope there will be an option to have specular hightlight  like clouds or window.  in poser 7 and pro its always from a point.

From what I've heard, it's at the very least in the planning process, if not further along.  I don't know anything more than that, since I don't work for Smith Micro ;)

I'll put in my perennial favorite wish point; the ability to go down the list of items (figures, poses, etc), enter a folder, then exit to the list in the same place, without going back to the top and starting all over again

...bonus points for even a simple search function to find items...;)

there are some folks under NDAs ... so intuit from that :)

I'd Like to see them hook up with Ani-mate, the latest version. That is the one thing that I love in DAZ Studio. The other big Problem with DAZ is no IK. You don't have the ability to bend or work off the hips with no IKs. 80% of my work is Animation.

Ani-Mate probably has an exclusive with DAZ though. I don't like to import from Daz into Poser. matching people up in close contact is a lot of work to get correct within an animation.

Would like the ability to zoom in-out of the preview window with mouse wheel like most other graphic programs.

it woudl be great if Normal maps would work in poser.

Let's not forget Set-Up tools like in DAZ!  The Set-up room is a dead dinosaur to beat, but everyone gets more mileage out of every other room than that one.  Friendly set-up tools would make Poser a real jewel to own.

The SetUp room was vastly improved in stability with PoserPro. Normal maps work in PoserPro as well.

Quote - In all likelihood there will be a Poser 8. Poser is too big a money-maker to be allowed to die out.

That was 5 years ago, Poser sales have been dropping drastically and systematically with each new release after Poser 4. From some of the figures that were released during the Smith Micro take over it was clear that Poser 7 had less then 5000 copies sold. For a development of such an intensive application that is way too little. I seriously doubt that Poser Pro even comes close to this figure. For what it's worth..... These days I only sell my software in 3 countries and I even sell far more then 5000 copies. Poser isn't by far the big money maker that it used to be.

The only reason that a new version will be released is the content market around Poser. If for some reason there will be no next version of Poser then the content market focused on Poser items will slowly fade away and D/S native content will slowly take over. Smith Micro makes a lot more money with selling content then they make with selling Poser, so for them it's a must to keep Poser alive to generate more content sales.

I don't know if there will be a Poser 8 or not. All I know that Poser is loosing support from it's users. I've using Poser since version 2. Seeing how less little new things and innovations each new version has to offer, I'm not even sure if I'll invest in Poser 8. I'm sure I'm not the only one. Smith Micro has to do something drastic to Poser if they want my money. I'm not looking for some new figures and 2 new features, that's not worth my money.

If they want my money the need to improve Poser's memory usage drastically and improve rendering speed with at least 50%. Some basic modeling tools and landscaping tools would also get my attention. Add build in good working toon / cell shader rendering options and I may be sold.

But I seriously doubt any of this will happen. All we will see is additions that make Poser even slower and no real speed, memory and rendering improvements. Just some new characters and more horrible lines of codes added to the terrible outdated core code.

SM officially asked Rendo forum users what they wanted in Poser 8 here, six months ago.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?message_id=3346843

Do any of you posting wishes understand that after asking what to build, they build? Wishing now isn't going to change much.

And I have, multiple times, said that people who know things (including myself) are under a Non Disclosure Agreement (NDA). That means we are not allowed to say what we know.

However, it is a matter of simple logic to make a conclusion. Consider the possibility that there isn't a Poser 8, it's not being worked on, there will not be one coming out. Under that condition, what would people who know say to you when you ask about it? Would they say "there is no project" or would they say "I can't answer your question"? Let me spell it out for you.

NDA's exist only for processes or activities or products that exist. We can't be under NDA for something that doesn't exist. Use your brains, people.

Quote - From some of the figures that were released during the Smith Micro take over it was clear that Poser 7 had less then 5000 copies sold

Forgive me, but you just threw up a huge sign that says "Look at me, I am the worlds worst business analyst."

On what impossibly contorted basis could you have arrived at that figure?

The only feature Poser 8 really needs is somethng like Studio's MorphLoader PRO.

You can export a posed and welded figure, fix any joint issues in a modeller, then "un-pose" and "un-weld" it during re-import.

The results are PERFECT joints that match absolutely anything the "Big Boys" can do with weightmapping.

Unfortunately these correction morphs only work 100% properly inside Studio, so Poser really needs it's own native system to finally solve the joint problem once and for all.

Studio also has a new "mixer" feature that lets you blend between figures and spawn new stand alone cr2's from those hybrids.
This is extremely usefull to fill gaps between figures.
Maddie can have an older (bigger) sister that is still younger (shorter) than Laura without any scaling issues.
Or you can blend Freak and M3 to get a "realistic Freak".
Or you can blend David and Luke for a real teenager.
Or SP3 and Laura for a real petite woman.

Possibilites are endless and as the new cr2's are stand-alone without scaling/morphing, cloth conversion for the new figures is no problem either.

I still prefer Poser for a lot of reasons over Studio, but if the next generation won't give me the same level of control over how a mesh bends and looks as (the new) Studio does, I doubt I'll waste my time with it any longer.

They had a big advantage with the MorphBrush, (Which they never really exploited, btw).
But now they have to really show something new to stay on top.

Sorry, but some "new and improved" bolt on firefly "features" or a built in "library search" just won't cut in anymore.

Quote - > Quote - From some of the figures that were released during the Smith Micro take over it was clear that Poser 7 had less then 5000 copies sold

Forgive me, but you just threw up a huge sign that says "Look at me, I am the worlds worst business analyst."

On what impossibly contorted basis could you have arrived at that figure?

On sales figures they released during the time of take-over. Somewhere there's a thread on Rendo where all of the math was explained.

For me the most important thing is for poser to become a true 64-bit program not a core 32-bit with a 64-bit render engine. It's time for Poser to become an application that will take advantage of the full amount of RAM some of us have installed.  It would be cool if it were like Vue which can install to a 32-bit and 64-bit OS (for some that use 32-bit systems).

Until then we can ask for the moon and stars but until Poser gets a total make over it will lack the power it needs to have all the goodies people want in it. And to play devil's advocate better programs cost more the more bang you want to more you'll have to pay for it.

bagginsbill I love your spin on the NDA who says folks don't have horse sense...LOL!

what i said.. you need to intuit
that may be horse sense ;)

I havent upgraded from poser 6 and never will
but thats because  I use Cinema4D+ interposer pro for rendering any poser content
but those who can NOT afford a high end package should keep an eye on Daz studio
for if they ever bundle in their  new cloth engine,animate+ and maybe Lightdome pro2 and throw in M4 V4 with morphs and a bunch of other free content and offer it all  at the $275-$325 Range  I think many would consider using  it over poser.

Quote - I havent upgraded from poser 6 and never will
but thats because  I use Cinema4D+ interposer pro for rendering any poser content
but those who can NOT afford a high end package should keep an eye on Daz studio
for if they ever bundle in their  new cloth engine,animate+ and maybe Lightdome pro2 and throw in M4 V4 with morphs and a bunch of other free content and offer it all  at the $275-$325 Range  I think many would consider using  it over poser.

I'm not sure..... the Poser update has been around $129 and if you wait a while you will even pay less for the update. D/S with all that for such a price wouldn't interest me at all, knowing I will pay less for a Poser update and knowing how buggy D/S still is and always has been and probably will be for a long time. For that amount of money I can upgrade all the way to Poser 10.

[quote

I'm not sure..... the Poser update has been around $129 and if you wait a while you will even pay less for the update. D/S with all that for such a price wouldn't interest me at all, knowing I will pay less for a Poser update and knowing how buggy D/S still is and always has been and probably will be for a long time. For that amount of money I can upgrade all the way to Poser 10.

Well lets not assume that DAZ;s marketing strategy is largely based on
Drawing away existing poser users.

if you look at the decisions they have made
its obvious they are looking to harvest new crops of first time Daz users users not recycle old die hard poser users
so any Pro version of D/S need only be competitve with a full non upgrade seat of poser.

Just visit the Daz forums and you will find many users who have never even owned poser... that is their target market

 Competion is always good for the consumer; I for one hope that there is a Poser 8.  If there isn't one, it is conceivable that some day there will be a new OS that can't run Poser at all anymore and I don't want to give it up. I'd hate to see Daz have the entire market.

Daz/Studio has never failed to dissapoint me in one way or another.  It's library structure is non-intuitive and stinks; and every update has requiered the reinstallion of all plugins--which has been an annoying and lengthy process.  If Poser goes bye-bye though, I am happy there will be figure rendering program available and that the $100s worth of figures and props I've purchased won't go to waste.  I've used other 3D applications and never used any that were easier to use than Poser.

If Poser sales are down it's probably a marketing problem; the program is used my many graphics professionals and I see Poser images everywhere from advertisements to book covers to magazine articles.  Poser is many graphic designer's "dirty little secret" for while 3D purists have always ridiculed it as being an amatuer program.

If people haven't purchased upgrades it's probably due to lack of innovation to improve on it, not because it isn't a valueable tool.  Poser 7 was worth the money for me for the multiple undos alone; the additional content is provided would sell for much more than the retail price of an upgrade if you were add them all up.  If I could get Poser Pro 7 for a $100 upgrade price I'd buy it; but it doesn't offer me enough improvement for me to fork over the $200 price tag.

BTW I have participated in all the surveys that SM released in the past that I was aware of.  So if they were listening there is at least a chance that we'll get some of the improvement's we've wanted.  If a new version is imminent than it would be good for them to at least say so; that would keep their customer's interest.  If they say nothing people might end up forking over a heafty chunk of change to buy he pay for Daz Studio not feeling that Poser has a future; not everyone will be able to afford both.

I agree with the afore mentioned wish for an updated setup room. But that was included in the comments in the thread started by thinkcooper. I love the Daz setup tools but even better if I could have all that funtionality straight from Poser.

A Poser 8? Of course there will be a Poser8.

cheers,

Mike.

Regarding a possible future release of Poser that I am not at liberty to talk about but I would be able to talk about if it didn't exist:

Without saying what improvements there may or may not be, I can assure you of three things:

1) Every improvement that may be implemented was because a signficant subset of the community asked for it. Nothing was invented just because it sounded cool.

1. Not every improvement you (or I, or him, or her) wanted is going to be in there. Can't build it all in one release unless you have a much bigger team, and that means much bigger price.

3) Some of the improvements that will be implemented will seem unimportant or secondary to you (or I, or him, or her).  And yet, there will be another person who thinks it is the key to why he/she will upgrade.

Of course I could be talking about any software here.

Quote - there are some folks under NDAs ... so intuit from that :)

Good. I'm not interested in switching to DS.  It's in no way financially feasible for me to start back at step one with buying all the crap I'd need to make DS work properly, and with the learning curve needed for me to get my DS renders not to suck. 

To me the fact of if there will be a Poser 8 was never a question since  I read the thread six months ago  (@Baggingsbill: you can discover secrets when you read between the lines, NDA or not) but what is more important: When! SInce it was almost two years ago since we got Poser 7, I expect Poser 8 to arrive before christmas (... quickly hiding my christall ball...)
Anyway, Smith Micro is more sensitive than DAZ, by saying nothing about its coming release, in this way we all get surprised and we don't get disappointed. ( TADAA! here's poser 8!!!)
I'm still happy with Poserpro, which is nothing more then a faster Poser 7 and some bells and whistles, but I like new improvements and features.  Heck, I'm still gasping about Autocad2010!
My only hope is a suitable price, nothing fancy, just something that's nice for my creditcard.

Best regards,

Bopper.

Daz Studio,  I love a lot of tools they have. But as mentioned. the file structure is a nightmare. the buggyness with some of thier great tools. And untill they came out with the new version of AniMate with DAZ Studio, Their keyframing ability was a nightmare.

Poser has plenty of Improvements that can be made. But look at every Program out there. Adobe when all the way from Adobe 5 to CS4. Computers, & Programs work together to make more things possible along with imput for what people would like to see. Without the double and Quad core computers, getting some of the programs with what they can do, would hardly open today. Adobe CS4 is the best example on that.

I have Poser Pro, and I'm sure they won't incorportated a new feature like DAZ's New uptated Ani-Mate into poser 8. But DAZ dosen't have IK, and has not mentioned that anything they are working on will either the last I have checked. With out IK. you can't do safisticate animation which is the most important thing I do. I can make the new AniMate with DAZ Studio really do some neat animations, But DAZ Studio with out IK. Can't fine tune from the hips, and retain the feets correct placement. 

I would love for Poser to have a soft IK,  I have Poser Pro, and on the surface, it looks like there is not much improvement. but the upgraded speed with a more powerful computer makes it worth my money. Instead of me Rendering through the night while I sleep, I can now render while working. And on the longest of Renders. Let them render through the night.

Lets face it. most of what people are talking about is, the way each likes to work. It would nice if Poser 8 or beyond, would doc their tools more like Adobe CS series does. giving more work area for the scene. and also to be able to handly toggle IK and Delete the lights more handly.

Wow, Weatpenny, That is a very impressive collection of currancy you have there. 10 years ago, I found in my desk, and to this day, I had no idea were it came from. It was my studio and the only people that worked there was me and an another employee, I asked him about it and he didn't know anything about it. There were 10 Siver Dollars. Age was ranged from 1898-1909.

I like old things, being and old geaser that I am!

Quote -

3) Some of the improvements that will be implemented will seem unimportant or secondary to you (or I, or him, or her).  And yet, there will be another person who thinks it is the key to why he/she will upgrade.

I really think this is the most important part to remember about any upgrade.  No software is designed for YOU AS AN INDIVIDUAL, ever, unless you designed it.  I'm willing to bet that not everyone will be 100% satisfied with Poser 8 when it comes out, because everyone has different needs and wants.  I don't need animation upgrades, because I don't animate.  My wishlist is actually simple and includes things like "Will tell me when it crashes, rather than just disappearing" or the ability to restart the render, like I can do in Bryce.  That's really all.

An automatic backup like in Max, for when it crashes would also be nice.  Just in case you forgot to save.
DPH

I was thinking of buying Poser Pro Base; I don't need the Collada stuff and other things it doesn't have.  I have more powerful computers now, with a laptop with 6r bit OS--perhaps it will be worth my while to upgrade.

Quote -

I have Poser Pro, and I'm sure they won't incorportated a new feature like DAZ's New uptated Ani-Mate into poser 8. But DAZ dosen't have IK, and has not mentioned that anything they are working on will either the last I have checked. With out IK. you can't do safisticate animation which is the most important thing I do. I can make the new AniMate with DAZ Studio really do some neat animations, But DAZ Studio with out IK. Can't fine tune from the hips, and retain the feets correct placement. 

Hi its good to hear a fellow animator in this thread.
yes I agree that as good as aniMate plus is  I still find it necessary to start my animations in poser 6
and use aniMate+ to assemble the pieces  together smoothly before exporting an animated PZ2 that I can use on a figure in Cinema4D.
and personally I still find poser physics quite valuable for those time when I need a natural looking figure fall/ collision
so good old poser6 will likely always have a useful place in my tool set along with DAZ studio
but only as a means to get figure content into my main production app Cinema4D R11.

Cheers

Quote - Wow, Weatpenny, That is a very impressive collection of currancy you have there. 10 years ago, I found in my desk, and to this day, I had no idea were it came from. It was my studio and the only people that worked there was me and an another employee, I asked him about it and he didn't know anything about it. There were 10 Siver Dollars. Age was ranged from 1898-1909.

I like old things, being and old geaser that I am!

Sound like Morgan Silver dollars with exception of the 1909 there were no silver dollars struck in the U.S. in 1909 but again in 1921 which was the last time a Morgan Silver dollar was struck and a new Peace silver dollar was introduced from 1921-1928. Yeah coins are my other habit LOL!

Quote - Wow, Weatpenny, That is a very impressive collection of currency you have there.

The stuff at that link are actually only the tip of the iceberg. I have over a thousand notes from 206 countries. I've been collecting off and on for 32 years.

Well Being that I'm not a collector of such things, I haven't looked at the dates lately, But I know most of the Dollars were very early in the 1900's. I lost a goldmine of Baseball cards. I use to live in Cincinnati. and In 1953 there was a game they called Patch. which was the same as pitching pennys. Because where I lived everything was cement, "even the schoolground outside."

Anyways, had bought a hand full of baseball card. I must have been pretty good for a 3ed grader, as I ended up when I moved from Cincinnati, I had a big box of Baseball cards that I had won playing that game. When I moved to Toledo, everything was grass. nobody knew what Patch was, and being that I was so young, I had no Idea that I was sitting on a gold mind. 

Granted some of the cards where a little scuffet up. But I only used cards I had duplicates of. 90% of them were in very good condition. Yep! you guessed it. I threw them all away. Kick in the pants! 

No body was collectors in my family so I didn't know the value of holding things that would someday be valuble. I had Micky Mantles Rooky Card, Stan Musual. Most any card up till 1953 that was out I had. As with my Coins. I'm still not a collector, but I like to see what people have collected. One thing I did collect by accident was mid 50's Ohio tax stamps. I had $1000. dollar one. A friend of mine gave them to me, I happend to see them in a box many years later and tried to sell them on EBay. They had tons of Ohio Tax Stamps for sale. Go figure. what you do save that you think no one else has, ends up that tons of people have.

Wolf353, I don't know how you use Poser and Cinema 4D 11, as I have the same set up with interposer. but if you like animating in Poser then putting the animation in Cinema. you might like the new feature with Poser 7 or Poser Pro, as they have layers for animation.

I don't like animating poser within Cinema except to touch up something that I might have missed while animating in Poser. Have you taken a look at the program called Messiah. In animates right in Cinema. It has the best by far walk designer out there anywhere. I've been wanting to rerig my Poser figures in Messiah, then work the animation within Cinema. Vue and I have a complete everything I need for the most complex movies. Check it out.

i really think some better hair. and faster hair

Quote - Wolf353, I don't know how you use Poser and Cinema 4D 11, as I have the same set up with interposer. but if you like animating in Poser then putting the animation in Cinema. you might like the new feature with Poser 7 or Poser Pro, as they have layers for animation.

very easy.
create and refine several short Character animations/motions in poser using graph editor and Dope sheet with IK

save them to runtime as PZ2 animated pose files NOT BVH.

if desired load figure into Daz studio import various animated PZ2's& save as aniblocks to mix,blend.crop rearrange order of movement etc.

Export animated pose files from Daz studio using free "PZ2"Exporter from Daz.

In Cinema, load Figure Via IPP
brows your poser runtimes from Cinema and apply animated poses to figures just as you would in poser or Daz studio.

If you dont have aniMate7 D/S then just skip the D/S/aniMate step and Load your Figures & animated poses from your runtimes directly from within cinema4d.

Cheers

The Best feature I like in DAZ is AniMate the newest version, much better than the first version which was very good but limited. I would rather animate within DAZ-AniMate then save the animations into Poser. Two Problems I have doing this is when you have two people say close dancing as example only. After saving your finished files and export them into Poser. Getting them to line up exactly as they were within DAZ is tricky.

I don't know about the Pz2 Exporter though, I haven't tried that. I've been working on so much stuff, I haven't gotten around to all the many things that are out there. If the Pz2 of DAZ can line up the files correctly Then I will be able to get what I want done within the two Programs. I'll will have to try this out.

Hi the PZ2 exporter simply exports an animated pose file but im sure its one file per figure though So i dont know if poser will "honor" the world positions of the two or more figures when it reads the Daz generated PZ2.
but at any rate pop over to the Daz website and grab the "poser format exporter"when you get the time
it  is FREE after all.

Cheers

Is this animate thing you guys talk about the tool where you make pose dots on a 2-D box and you slide the mouse around between the poses and it interpolates? I could write that in about 15 minutes for Poser.

Quote - Is this animate thing you guys talk about the tool where you make pose dots on a 2-D box and you slide the mouse around between the poses and it interpolates? I could write that in about 15 minutes for Poser.

Uhhh......... no

** ANIMATE +**

" aniMate+- Multiple Timeline Layout- See timelines of multiple characters or objects all at the same time

• Useful for syncing up interactive animations
• aniMate any Object- Any object can now have a timeline - Cameras
• Lights
• Props
• ...and more!
• Layers- Mask layers to affect only the bones you specify
• They can be set to "add to" or "override" the first layer
• Override poses, hands, feet, expressions, and more to combine animations!
• Audio Blocks- Add audio blocks to any layer!
• Move them around to construct: - Conversations
• Background music
• Sound effects
• Morph Blocks- Construct your own morph blocks!
• Put them on any layer
• Useful for: - Expressions
• Breathing
• Muscle Flexing
• Keyframe Editing- Zoom into any aniBlock to see your key frames
• Multiple Functions: - Delete
• Copy
• Paste
• Move your keyframes visually
• All within the familiar aniBlock format
• Levels- Edit animations in multiple layers
• Offset the animation of the base keyframe layer or level
• No need to re-key the base level"

 Not likely that you will make something like this for poser in 15 minutes
.....or 15 months for that matter

Cheers

And all of that you get for a price just under the price of an update from a previous version of Poser to the next one, I'm thrilled.

While it sure adds to the features that are in Poser, it's just too expensive. Fact is that you will need to buy quite some plugins for D/S to get it working as good as Poser does out of the box.

If I really switch to D/S and want to get the most out of it, I pay a price that's more then Poser Pro full version and getting close to for example Vue Infinite. Sorry, I think I'd rather buy Vue or do something else, more useful with my money. For serious use, D/S is way to expensive and you still have all the ugly showstopping bugs.

yeah

we all have different needs and Different $$Means$$ to achieve our objectives.

Cheers

Ah - I was remembering the Puppeteer thingy. The Aniblocks concept is very cool. Looks like a serious workflow accelerator.

A plug-in like that should work in Poser too, except that there is no way to integrate sophisticated GUI stuff into Poser. I can build a GUI like that in Flex pretty darn fast, but I'd have to write a server component to make it do the GUI's bidding - quite painful.

A Puppeteer plugin for Poser would be cool. Even if perhaps not as cool as an aniMate plugin for Poser.

Quote - Ah - I was remembering the Puppeteer thingy. The Aniblocks concept is very cool. Looks like a serious workflow accelerator.

Yes it basicly gives Daz studio the same nonlinear animation functionality found in higher end programs like Maya ,Motionbulder and XSI.

its particularly useful to an experienced poser animator like myself
who has amassed a huge collection of poser figure motions from my animation projects dating back to poser4.
 I can now make them into aniblocks and combine, speed up reverse ,crop  etc into new composited motions just like editing various video clips.
and with the aforementioned 'PZ2" exporter I can export the new complex motions to a poser native format which is how I developed my current marketplace products for V4/M4..

Cheers

If Poser 8 had the means to be able to do What DAZ AniMate does, I would not have any need for DAZ Studio. If The company that made AniMate doesn't an exclusive with DAZ Studio that would really be a big plus with Poser animators. As I said, I like animating within Poser. Importing the PZ2 files is just an extra step to mess with. Even if you can open the PZ2 file in it's correct placement. But I will have to live with what ever comes. As Animators know, Animating is time consuming. I am making full length movies. Most make little clips, or movie shorts. All are exciting. It's just that my desire is for making Movies. And It takes me a good year to make a full lenght movie. I know have another person to work on areas that he is more adept at doing. So what ever Poser can do to speed up the process, especially in Rendering and animating are my priority.