Oh and: I am glad that you like it. As said before I altered the tint to a very pale yellow, a kind of chamois (close to the typical color that white candles have). I am not satisfied with the shadows here but as this is just a test...

Fisty: That should work, the same way I fit very slender figures into dynamic clothes. But so far I had to "un-parent" the clothes so that they do not scale up with the figure. Or did I do something wrong?!

Quote - I am not satisfied with the shadows here but as this is just a test...

It's a damn nice test!

Quote - Fisty: That should work, the same way I fit very slender figures into dynamic clothes. But so far I had to "un-parent" the clothes so that they do not scale up with the figure. Or did I do something wrong?!

Yeah, probably have to unparent first.

Ahhh... what a pity that I have Poser doing promotional renders and thumbnails at the moment as I so much want to try out those panties!!
But... as wishes seem to come true at the moment and this panty has this clean-and-sexy-chic: May we have a top/bra for it as well sooner or later?! I am not sure if it was done before but maybe a top that looks like a sport-bra would work as a dynamic prop.

I tried progressively decreasing the scale of the cloth after frame 1, but Poser seems to ignore that information. The result of the simulation acts like scaling is never involved. After running such a simulation, if you turn the "Dynamics" dial to 0, the panties scale UP. In other words, the cloth sim progressively scaled the prop back up during the simulation in compensation for the down-scaling I selected. The end result is they don't change size at all.

The back looks fine because it basically drapes over the buttocks, but here's what I get in the front.

I forgot to mention that I unparented it as well. No change. Also I removed the constrained groups altogether. They didn't fall down.

Ah I see what you were talking about now.

Parent cloth to figure.
Shrink figure at frame 1.
Grow figure in a later frame back to 100%.
Unparent the cloth.
It's doing something different now.

Quote - Ah I see what you were talking about now.

Parent cloth to figure.
Shrink figure at frame 1.
Grow figure in a later frame back to 100%.
Unparent the cloth.
It's doing something different now.

You have to make sure that when you grow the figure back to 100%, the cloth stays at its smaller size. I'm not sure right now about the correct sequence of growing and unparenting that achieves that, but I know I've done it.

Anyway, the idea is that if you grow the figure back while keeping the cloth small, the effect should be the same as if you kept the size of the figure constant and shrink-wrapped the cloth onto it.

cobaltdream: Thanks to your boyfriend for the critical look!

Deforming her privates realistically when posing the thighs is extremely tricky. I'm actually glad I got this far, but I'll keep trying harder. I think though that part of the weirdness in that image comes from lighting and texturing issues. With the diffuse map I'm currently using, her inner labia are actually brighter than the rest of her skin, which is certainly not correct.

Thanks for the help guys. First time I learned something about Poser from somebody else in like a year. LOL

"With the diffuse map I'm currently using, her inner labia are actually brighter than the rest of her skin, which is certainly not correct."

The urge to make increasingly dirty quips is overpowering my common sense! :lol:  I'll just say she might need lead lined panties to keep the radioactive glow down! :laugh: OMFG!  No wonder she she needs DYNAMIC KNICKERS! To absorb all the power she's putting out!:lol:

I will now quit and leave until this passes.  Before I say something ban worthy.

:laugh: It's still funny.

Those panties are first rate, Fisty, BTW

I agree the crease could/should be a little higher even with in zero position.. but easy to do with morphs too

Quote - I agree the crease could/should be a little higher even with in zero position.. but easy to do with morphs too

I find that there's quite a bit of variation in the shape and size of both the outer and inner labia as well as the hood of the clitoris, which makes it extremely hard to find a "generic" shape for female genitals. With some women, you hardly see a crease at all in the "zero" position. With others, you see a lot. (And don't dare ask me how I know all that. :lol:)

well.. not having done much reasearch into it I can only go by my own anatomy that is over an inch higher up in front than hers.  But all humans are different I'm sure..

An other resource for cloth room parameters you can find here: www.poserfashion.net/cloth_parameters.htm

Considering the dynamic panty: when you the whole panty one constrained group, so no dynamic group, it also follows the shapes of the body very tight. It's a trick I learned from SVDL.

Best regards,

Bopper.

Is the answer to genital deformation on leg bends to make the genitals a separate body part despite being continuous mesh to the hip? This is done with the lower jaw I believe sometimes and allows the bending to be managed separately from say the head/neck or in this case hip/thighs. Please excuse me if I don't know what the heck I am talking about.

Quote - Is the answer to genital deformation on leg bends to make the genitals a separate body part despite being continuous mesh to the hip? This is done with the lower jaw I believe sometimes and allows the bending to be managed separately from say the head/neck or in this case hip/thighs. Please excuse me if I don't know what the heck I am talking about.

Yes, something like that might work. In fact, she already has a body handle to move her genital region around. I could either use that or fine-tune the influence spheres for the thighs to include just enough of the area between her legs.

The thing, though, is that whenever I try shortcuts like that, I usually end up making a mess and going back to my usual method of pushing vertices around. It's more tedious, but I have full control. It just tends to work better for me, personally.

Also, I think the larger part of my problem is understanding how her vulva should deform. If I know what I need to do, I can do it. So I'll probably try to find some good references. There are worse things in the world than looking for those.

Another thing that occurred to me is that I should probably make a morph that smooths out her vulva and shape the JCMs with that in effect. Part of my problem is that half of the vertices I probably should move around are deep inside folds and hard to control. I know, no one likes neutralized Poser characters, but you guys wouldn't have to see her like that, and I think I am strong enough of character to handle it.

What a wonderful model. You guys are doing amazing work.

I lost my internet connection this past wed. or Thursday and just now got it back.
that is why I have not been online recently.
And a storm is moving in fast so I have to close down for now.
I'll be back to catch up later, hopefully.
sigh

W00T!  Antonia hair! I was working on one, but I won't finish it until after I move. :(  You beat me to it, Fisty!:laugh:

Cool, now she even gets her own hairdress!!!

That's exciting, Fisty!

:Lurks:

:tickles:

Quote - I understand that scaling the figure under the clothes will make it "fill" a tight item. But here I want the cloth to actually shrink. It's not a matter of Stretch resistance, but rather the opposite. The cloth simulation seems to have no concept of cloth contracting on its own - no in-built spring trying to bring the vertices closer together.

I tried progressively decreasing the scale of the cloth after frame 1, but Poser seems to ignore that information. The result of the simulation acts like scaling is never involved. After running such a simulation, if you turn the "Dynamics" dial to 0, the panties scale UP. In other words, the cloth sim progressively scaled the prop back up during the simulation in compensation for the down-scaling I selected. The end result is they don't change size at all.

The back looks fine because it basically drapes over the buttocks, but here's what I get in the front.

Not the sharpest nail in the bag when it comes to all this and I realize this was not what you were trying to get but actually i love this look. Sort of a loin cloth pantie/modesty apron. Sexy!

Quote - > Quote - I agree the crease could/should be a little higher even with in zero position.. but easy to do with morphs too

I find that there's quite a bit of variation in the shape and size of both the outer and inner labia as well as the hood of the clitoris, which makes it extremely hard to find a "generic" shape for female genitals. With some women, you hardly see a crease at all in the "zero" position. With others, you see a lot. (And don't dare ask me how I know all that. :lol:)

if research is what you are doing try doing it with other 3D figures. my favorites are the lab fold details by aerySoul on Alice and those by BlackHearted on GND & GND2 figures. Very realistic.....I think.....in neutral mode.

But frankly despite all the add-on figures and props and countless morphs available i have seen from V2 to V4....so far anyway.....I can honestly say that sector of the 3D world female figures is greatly lacking in realism and thus functionality. So my question to you sir is.....well....can you please explain what you use handles for Vulva movements for. I am totally flumoxed by this!?  8(

Quote - So my question to you sir is.....well....can you please explain what you use handles for Vulva movements for. I am totally flumoxed by this!?  8(

You'd have to talk to phantom3D about that, since he did the rigging. If I understood correctly, the idea was to compensate for deformations when bending the legs. I think I will be able to do that better with JCMs, so that particular handle might become obsolete in the end.

I had in mind to try something tricky and slick with it, but never did get it to work, so it just became excess baggage but thought you might do something with it. Just another brain fart.

Quote - I had in mind to try something tricky and slick with it, but never did get it to work, so it just became excess baggage but thought you might do something with it. Just another brain fart.

I might still use it to help me with the JCMs.

I made a morph yesterday to flatten out the whole vulva area, since I figure some people might like that anyway for second-skin undies and such. But I'll also try to use that to get a better grip on the way that whole area deforms when I pose the legs. If that fails, I'll give the handle a go.

But first I'll hunt for some references and try to get a better understanding of what's going on when the legs are moved.

Seeing the amazing results odf has accomplished with JCMs, it would be interesting to see what could be done with legacy figure meshes, such as Victoria 3 (or even V 2) and Aiko 3.  Could these morphs be injected into existing clothing with D3d's Morphing Clothes? If so, that would take advantage of a huge inventory of existing clothing for these figures, and allow vast improvements to these meshes.

Of course, I 'd rather see Antonia finished first...

One of the things I don't understand is what could have been done different in the DAZ figures to make more realistic leg spread motions look as realistic as they do on Antonia? Or the groin area more realistic when the legs are spread. yes I know there are those that don't see this as necessary unless you are doing porno but it is useful if you are doing other forms of artwork or imaging besides porn and it would be nice if it could look more realistic otherwise.
Can those movements be adjusted using the joint parameters within say Poser?

shante:  A rigging question :biggrin:  Yes alot can be done with adjusting the rigging in other models. Here's a pic of an unfinished rerig job I did on V4:

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/media/folder_9/file_402560.jpg
 
Although this isn't the leg spread bend you mention. While much can be done with a rerig you end up with a figure that does not match any of the conforming clothing etc. that has been created for it.
And you would  have a very hard time, if not impossible in getting bends as nice as Antonia's in some of the models because of the way the geometry is put together. The way the geometry is built has alot to do with how the model deforms when it bends, or how good you can get your JCM's to perform as well. Antonia's geometry was made for some great bend deformations.

One more thing to mention is that Antonia was modeled with her legs  farther apart than say V3 or V4 and that very much effects how well you are going to get the legs to do the splits, or bend on the X rot.

One more note about Antonia....The basic mesh was done by odf, WITH comments from Phantom3d!  A development TEAM worked on the mesh, as compared the usual thing of A modeler makes the mesh and then hands it over to be rigged.  The rigger rigs it, and on to the morpher guys. Yatta,yatta,yatta...

Not this time.  That is one of the reason Antonia moves so much better than most figures.  That's also why I'm so proud of these guys! :laugh:  Like NO ONE else ever figured this out? :blink: Wow...Peanut butter and Chocolate DO go together!  Who knew? :lol:

Antonia's mesh was dang near perfect when I got ahold of it, I only had to ask odf to move a couple of lines in the hip for the grouping and bends I wanted. Her mesh was already so smooth it brought tears to my eyes, just gorgeous! Wish I could model like that. I think that's great though all of the different people who have worked on her together. My contribution was not all that much really, just a basic rig complete with mistakes. :)

That's right though working as a team things come out much better. If I had to rig a model and couldn't ask for anything to be changed, it would never come out very well. It has been a pleasure.

EDIT: Actually I think odf just moved the lines on his own after he saw the groups I wanted, made it better for me anyway. Been so long ago I forgett. But I don't want to claim anything I don't deserve, the Mesh and the vision and many improvements on my original rig are all from odf.

He had a clear vision, and wanted to kick some butt with Antonia, and that is happening.  I think the team has such a good flow with comment and critiques that the figure is really starting to snap!

To many cooks may spoil the broth, but we're all building something better than BROTH. Meh, broth!  Gimme a cheeseburger, dammit! :laugh:

I like the "Many hands make light work" one better.  Antonia is like a house in some respects. odf laid a solid foundation, and every one else sort of pitched in like an old fashioned barn raising!

As soon as odf is through with the ERCs and JCMs, we need to get busy making some clothes, shoes, and hair for her!

omg, I'm about to melt. It's almost 37C here and no air conditioner.  I'm soaked to the skin with sweat.  I'm gonna go lay down on the concrete in front of the fan.:ohmy:

I'd like to point out that in my humble opinion peanut butter and chocolate are two great tastes that do absolutely not go together.

Now on with your regularly scheduled programme.

mmm... cheeseburger...

:biggrin: sorry, had to be done. back to your regularly scheduled thread.

Quote - :tickles:

:giggles:

Quote -

:biggrin: sorry, had to be done. back to your regularly scheduled thread.

Sure you can have a big kitty cheese burger, made from 100% pure ground angus kitty meat.

:runs to duck behind the door:

VSS was used to bring out the texture better, it is a very pale color, almost white.

It won't be until tomorrow before I do a little more, I get tired so easy now.

LOL  O-kay, maybe we don't get a lot done, BUT we don't get paid for it, and dammit, we DO have  ton of fun doing it! :laugh:

Hey, Blue!  That texture is looking good.  I think the slight veins are just enough.

I know about fatigue!  I been working on a model to stick in a render for a week, but when the temp goes up, my energy just disappears!  I get to hot to sleep,and sleep late.  I hate summer.

Quote - I've been doing a bit of work on the Akasha texture and here is just the face image.
Can you see the veins?
I don't want a lot of veins showing on her face or body, just a hint of them.

VSS was used to bring out the texture better, it is a very pale color, almost white.

The skin shade is wonderful, but  (at least on my monitor) it looks like someone drew a 'Y' on her forehead with a ballpoint pen and she tried to wash it off, but didn't quite succeed.  I think it needs to be a bit more subtle, or perhaps  fade out more towards the end of each vein.

TO BluEcho:
Why veins on the face? I ask only for curiosity because notion is too new for me. Personally unless a statement is being made with character or it is destined to become a sci-fi fantasy figure, I prefer no veins on face. I can see a gentle bump map to show a stress vein in forehead when say she screams but when in repose I have not met any women at all with visible veins on their faces. On breasts and arms and legs and tummies yes but never on the face. That is just me though and that don't count for much. Just curious.

TO Phantom3D:
Thanks for clarity. DAZ is supposed to be the big 3D content creator on the block. They have had so much practice "Getting It RIGHT" and despite all the versions of Vicki and Mike and David etc they still miss the damn boat. Is it possible there is noone there that "Gets It"!?
Look what has been done here. Why can't they ask themselves how they can do the same thing there?
I remember when Anton was trying to introduce different character creation methodology at DAZ and he was let loose because his ideas were not in following with their creative/marketing agenda (At least that was what I heard said but I could be wrong).
They fix a good character by adding a few more features , making it a denser mesh, bloating it with injection morphs instead of keeping it simple but so far as I am concerned never really seem to get it right. Maybe they just don't want to make them perfect. Afterall, if they finally come out with a perfect character that does ALL thing for everyone, who would buy the next one!?  :(

Hey ODF when Antonia is finished are you going to present her to DAZ development team to show them what they should have been doing all along?