ODF
Though I don't define my "SELF" as a porn creator I do and have been and will always be, crating Erotica (though OT I'll let others here try and find that tiny gray line separating the two).

The images you provided indicate that using Antonia will make it a bit easier to create something more realistic . 

Regarding the first image admittedly, I have done NO images from the first Point of view in my work in part because it less "Artistic" but also because perhaps NONE of the models out there thus far can realistically convey the...well...err...the view realistically).

The second image seen from behind  is also more realistic rendition of actual anatomical placement from that angle (a definite plus for those of us in need of this kind of posing). 

So the fine tuning of the JCMs in the pelvic/groin/hip/buttock areas for Antonia is a welcome thing for, as I said, all the other models out there fall horribly short of any semblance of realism. I only hope that in fixing thses JCM's to do this do not compromise too much the labial detail discussed earlier in this thread.

Thanks!

Bending is looks great, odf, nice job.  I prefer her unneutrered, of course, but even if you made that the default and made her preious detail a morph she'd still be 1000 times more realistic than Vicky

Agreed Fisty.  :)

 I agree, odf.  ALSO--she is a thousand times simpler than Apollo.  I used him recently and he was a bear to use, IMO.  One thing I wished he had is morph grouping.  If the dials were grouped together, it would have been easier to use.  WIth Antonia, I think all the expression morphs should be together under "base Expressions" group.  It's still way early to say this, but it's never to early I guess.

Is good idea?

in D/S & Poser when you make a morph can you inclued the bone ?
say u make a morph where she bends her hip to set down.
can u make the bone bend in the morph also ?

no, morphs can't effect the rigging, unfortunately...

Quote - Bending is looks great, odf, nice job.  I prefer her unneutrered, of course, but even if you made that the default and made her preious detail a morph she'd still be 1000 times more realistic than Vicky

Thanks Fisty!

I'm not completely sure yet what the default should be. I think for someone who makes a full body morph or a hip morph, it might be easier to work from the neutered state, because with full labial definition, it's really hard to see and control what's happening within those folds. On the other hand, I think that every self-respecting morph maker should own MorphLoaderPro or something equivalent, in which case they could morph against the neutered state even if it's not the default. So I guess it just might come down to what's most useful to most users in most cases. :lol:

Same thing with the breasts. One might argue that it's much easier to deal with smallish, roundish, non-drooping breasts with no nipple or areola definition as the default state. Then again, that's only true as long as people are forced to make morphs against the default state, which is, strictly speaking, no longer the case. On the other hand, if most users are expecting to put at least a padded bra or bikini top on her, nipples or realistic breasts as the default state are really not that important anymore.

Of course, there's also the issue of combining morphs. Morphs made against a neutral shape are easier to combine than ones made against a shape with a lot of detail.

So, what do people think? Should we have a vote or something?

Quote - in D/S & Poser when you make a morph can you inclued the bone ?
say u make a morph where she bends her hip to set down.
can u make the bone bend in the morph also ?

Not in the morph. But you can make the bend a dependent parameter (new Poser8 lingo) of the morph. For example, Antonia has a lower jaw bone, and when I make her 'open mouth' morph, I will set it up so that the jaw bone rotates depending on the morph value. I think people have called that a 'morph-controlled joint'. It's the counterpart of the more common 'joint-controlled morphs' or JCMs.

 Neutral state  is best to morph.  If she's laying down on her back and her feet seem to be generating gravity, it looks a bit odd.  Default boob positions would be like  (<<,^^,>>, and <> and the default gravity below) Wearing a tight tube top would be like, ><.  If her boobs are in neutral to begin with, it WOULD be easir for more different shape to be generated, then be affected by movement morphs, IMO.

Compared to modern DAZ figures, the Vickies got NOTHING., not even a default !/  . As an artist, I'm offended by this censoring of nature.  Men and women should have SOMETHING to show what they are,IMO.  So I'm in favor of the basics.  They can be morphed to death if people like, but forget the whole 'sexless Barbies' crapola.

Leave her face as is.  That face is what attracts downloaders.  It can be morphed to other shapes, no problem,IMO.

That's my 2 cents about it.

Joel, in the interest of anatomical correctness: I think you meant a default i/
:lol:
As for the breasts: I think you're probably right. If the default state is gravity-defying, that makes it easier to adjust for different positions. But in that case I think I'll make them rather small as well. I think it's much easier to enlarge CG breasts then to reduce them, and also small boobs don't look as weird when they keep their shape in all positions.

 :lol: I was counting holes, not fleshy bits that DAZ rages against. :laugh:

I agree about the breasts." It's easier to make small things large in Poser, but not the vice versa."--Phil Cooke talking about Wardrobe Wizard conversions, but works on a myriad of things!  ALso a woman figure that has a body like a REAL WOMAN is a real kick in the teeth to the 'Boob-monsters'! :laugh:

Some real women have really large boobs, though. I've seen it.

 Duhr.  So have I.  Around here, watch what you call "large". @___@  Some times to big is just WAAAAAAAAY to big! :laugh:  I like good proportions on a woman.  Big boobs alone do not make an attractive woman.

What do you guys think?

Incidentally, this also shows what her "neutered" genitals look like with a proper texture. Not so bad, eh? I'd say unless one does a closeup or a "special" pose, that's pretty presentable. And the labia detail can always be dialed back in. She's not totally neutered like V4, just a but more morpher-friendly.

Quote - > Quote - Bending is looks great, odf, nice job.  I prefer her unneutrered, of course, but even if you made that the default and made her preious detail a morph she'd still be 1000 times more realistic than Vicky

Thanks Fisty!

I'm not completely sure yet what the default should be. I think for someone who makes a full body morph or a hip morph, it might be easier to work from the neutered state, because with full labial definition, it's really hard to see and control what's happening within those folds. On the other hand, I think that every self-respecting morph maker should own MorphLoaderPro or something equivalent, in which case they could morph against the neutered state even if it's not the default. So I guess it just might come down to what's most useful to most users in most cases. :lol:

Same thing with the breasts. One might argue that it's much easier to deal with smallish, roundish, non-drooping breasts with no nipple or areola definition as the default state. Then again, that's only true as long as people are forced to make morphs against the default state, which is, strictly speaking, no longer the case. On the other hand, if most users are expecting to put at least a padded bra or bikini top on her, nipples or realistic breasts as the default state are really not that important anymore.

Of course, there's also the issue of combining morphs. Morphs made against a neutral shape are easier to combine than ones made against a shape with a lot of detail.

So, what do people think? Should we have a vote or something?

I vote
no hiden  vertices.
or two vertices that are only .0001 apart.

Quote - Speaking of proportions, here's what I have in mind for the next version of Antonia. Left is the current default, right the proposed new one. The upper arms are dialed at x=115%, the neck at y=75%, the head grow control at 0.04 and the shoulders at x=95% (which for some strange reason makes them broader).

What do you guys think?

Incidentally, this also shows what her "neutered" genitals look like with a proper texture. Not so bad, eh? I'd say unless one does a closeup or a "special" pose, that's pretty presentable. And the labia detail can always be dialed back in. She's not totally neutered like V4, just a but more morpher-friendly.

I think to get people to even down load her for free
she will half to be very very sexy and absolutely beautiful

 The one on the right looks 'younger' slightly and more girly to my eye.  That's my opinion.  WHat do other people think?

I was hoping for 'less like a pinhead'.

the one on the right looks much more natural though like being said she looks younger 

i definitely think the new proportions are more realistic.  i was always concerned about her arms, but this addresses that perfectly.  in general, she's worlds more real than Vicky.

May be, you can do something with the "hard" edge below the breasts to make it easier to change the size and shape of the boobies. If the needed vertices are there its pretty easy to change from A cup to DD :woot:

Hmm, I guess it makes sense that she would look younger. Kids have larger heads in relation to their bodies than adults, so that would be something we look at for hints at age.

In general, I don't mind her looking young, just as long as she doesn't appear underage.

Quote - May be, you can do something with the "hard" edge below the breasts to make it easier to change the size and shape of the boobies. If the needed vertices are there its pretty easy to change from A cup to DD :woot:

Yep, it's on my to-do list.

The one with the arms adjusted (I'd say on the right but I get left and right confused) looks more natural to me as well.

But here I want to add a bit of info about the arms length, both me and my daughter are short, 5'2", and have shorter limbs.

The bend in my arms fall close to my waist but my daughters upper arms are like Toni's in the left image.
This surprised me but her arms are just like that. :)

The one on the right looks more natural to me.. mostly cause of the arm length, the other little changes are fine but were not the major things and well within human averages.  It's the larger head that makes her look younger..  perhaps a defualt just a tiny bit smaller..  like try dialing the neck length to 80% or 85% and the Head size to .025 instead, might be enough to get rid of the pinhead appearance without throwing off the appearance of her age so much.

Just my opinion, feel free to ignore me.  =)  Overall new proportions = better.

The one on the right is a lot more appealing looking, though I would agree with Fisty about making the head just slightly smaller. Broader shoulders also look better.

I've never noticed this before, around her ankles - it looks like the hems of tight jeans especially with the way the highlights suddenly cut off.

Yeah, I guess making her head a tiny bit smaller wouldn't hurt. Also, I should probably see how it looks with some nice hair.

Anyway, if I get the head size wrong now and have to adjust again, that's no biggie. The arms are more critical, because if I change their length in the underlying mesh, that means I have to adjust all the rotation centers for the hands and fingers.

Just don't back off on the head size too much. I think it was a bit too small in the left image.

Quote - I've never noticed this before, around her ankles - it looks like the hems of tight jeans especially with the way the highlights suddenly cut off.

Hmm... I'm looking at some references right now. Maybe the bony bits at the ankles are sticking out a bit too much. Will do some more checking and maybe fix that.

Quote - Just don't back off on the head size too much. I think it was a bit too small in the left image.

Well, it'll definitely be closer to the right image than the left one.

Kewl. Two thumbs up. Antonia is coming along nicely. I haven'tt had much for 3D time this summer, but hopefully I'll be able to do a few nice head morphs for her soon. I seem to have my difficulties figured out as far as creating morphs go.

Well, if you're planning to do morphs, better wait until my next upload. Since I'm changing the shape of the base mesh, and some programs like to change the vertex order when I'm not looking, it'll be a bit tedious and sometimes tricky to transfer existing morphs (and to tell the truth, I'm hoping that most people who've made morphs or clothing so far will figure out how to adjust them to the new shape, but if someone gets seriously stuck, I'll definitely try to help out).

Then again, I have Morphing Clothes, and this might be a good opportunity to give it a workout.

 I have a question for you here :) my pc went dead last week so i have to redo all the textures i did for antonia :) ( the one i showed a couple of pages ago) and so i have to start all over again. what do you prefer:

a bald texture or a texture with hair on top?

Just wanted to pop in since I haven't for awhile...

She's looking good odf!! I think the one on the right has more correct proportions, although the legs are still a bit long IMHO. We're all way too used to Vicky's crazy proportions...lol. Antonia is still roughly about 8 heads high - if you scaled her back to around 7 to 71/2 I think she'd be perfect. To my eye it looks like the problem may be in the leg being just a smidge too long. BTW...you made her head a little bigger and that's PERFECT.

I think, personally, it's great you're trying to make her look as natural as possible since most Poser figures, well, aren't. If Vicky were made to have natural proportions, she'd look very different than she does now ;o). Antonia is more a step in the right direction.

Awesome! :o).

Laurie

thedutchview, why not do one of each?
that's what i do sometimes, same as for beard and facial hair.

If you're trying to make her look as natural as possible (which is what's great about her, I think), then you might want to consider adjusting the height of either her belly button or her waist. Most women's belly buttons aren't right at the natural waist line but a bit below.

Actually (and this is going by my own), her belly button looks right at about the right spot, about on an even line with the top of the hip bone.

Laurie

thought to say it is easier to morph out or away from the mesh in stead of towards the mesh

for exsample
it is easier to a size b breast in to a d
it is arder to morphs a d to a b

it is easier to morph a none pregrent girl to a pregnet girl

what app do u use to make morphs ?
what is antonia poser polycount ?

The current breast shape is good for evening dress weared without bra on award ceremony.

But for most clothes they are too low and too pointy, i have started a swimsuit from the 60's era weared by Ava Gardner, overall my modeling is near the original but the breast area is wrong.

A hide nipple morph is needed too, they don't show on all clothes.

For the existing Shape there isw a NoNipple morph already available.

I'm still wondering if I should make her nipples flat by default, as they tend to get in the way when I make morphs. I think it's kind of the default in real women, anyway, no?

Quote - what app do u use to make morphs ?

I shape them in Wings3D and load them into the figure in DAZ Studio.

Quote - what is antonia poser polycount ?

A little less then 39000 for the Poser version, everything included. The original mesh is a quarter of that, so a little less then 10000 polys. If someone needed a low-poly figure for Poser, they could probably leave out the teeth and tongue and morph the low-poly version into a more Firefly-friendly shape.

Edit: the jaw and tongue actors together do in fact contain more then 20% of all the polys, more than the sum of head and eyes.

Quote - I'm still wondering if I should make her nipples flat by default, as they tend to get in the way when I make morphs. I think it's kind of the default in real women, anyway, no?

Looks down
The answer is yes.
Default state is kind of rounded flat ...

Quote - For the existing Shape there isw a NoNipple morph already available.

Thanks i need to revisit the dev. site, i have no everything installed

 Hey, odf, you use Wings3d a lot? How do you ADD to exisiting groups?  I'm working on a dress for Antonia and ran into a snag.  I have the cuffs as seperate from the forearms groups.  How can I fix that?  Or can I fix it at all in Wings?  I've been using for years and never ran into this.  I feel like a real dummy on this.

Quote -  Hey, odf, you use Wings3d a lot? How do you ADD to exisiting groups?  I'm working on a dress for Antonia and ran into a snag.  I have the cuffs as seperate from the forearms groups.  How can I fix that?  Or can I fix it at all in Wings?  I've been using for years and never ran into this.  I feel like a real dummy on this.

I assume you mean materials? Wings3D has groups, too, but they are confusing and the groups it puts into the .obj file are based on materials.

Anyway, you open the 'Outliner' window and right-click on your cuff material. In the little menu that appears, you select 'Select'. Then you right-click on the forearms material and select 'Assign to Selection'. Et voila (or something).

 Thanks loads, mate.  That was a life saver!  Me old cinder wall couldn't stand much more pounding of my head, I think! :laugh:

De nada!

Haven't been getting my ebot on this...grrr.

Anyhow, I am still in lurking mode at present.