oh i  just  read vilters  last post,  you  and I need to talk!

You see that i changed her assets a little.

If one wants to contact me feel free
tony.vilters@pandora.be

That's excellent work, vilters.

Thanks, coming from you, that means something to me.

I do this just as a hobby, from time to time, and only recreational.
PPS: Pure Personal Satisfaction.
Can i do it?  Hey, lets try.
Morphs are made in Anim8or, BTW, a free 3d proggie. but works great.

And may I thank you for all your hard work,  information and support.

Quote - people please stop using the default lights. please.

For showing a figure in it's "Natural" environment anyone with the app can reproduce... yes, I will use the default lights any day.
If I want to make it look good... I use the lights properly.

With default lights there is no question of "Does it only look like this because the lights are the way they are / VSS is used / GC is done..." etc.
It's exactly what you get in the box, with no fiddly bits and anyone can reproduce it. :)

And BB -- Yeah, I kinda like the doggy. :)
He's better looking than his owner (Ryan) :P

I want to know about this "new" rigging for the P8 figures. How is the bone structure different from say.... G2 figures or any Mil4 figures?

Notable differences:

-- Extra joints in the fingers and toes
-- Some joints use multiple falloff zones and/or the new capsule-shaped zone (for an example of multiple falloffs and capsule zone, see Shoulder front-back or buttocks side-side

The basic bone structure is pretty much the same as the G2 figures.  The grouping is a little different - they went back to having the breasts as part of the collar, for the female figure, instead of having them on the chest bone.

The joints themselves are very different, the new figures make heavy use of the new extensions to Poser's rigging system.  Many bones have multiple deformers, some up to 4.  The new rig has MANY MANY MORE magnets built into it than Sydney's did, so along with the new extra multiple deformers thing, good luck getting these figures exported into any other app.

Incidentally they can't have been modeled by the same person - most notably the feet and face are just miles apart in a technical and anatomical sense (sydney wins hands down).

edit: tbh Sydney is rigged much better in a lot of areas, particularly the collars

Quote - Notable differences:

-- Extra joints in the fingers and toes
-- Some joints use multiple falloff zones and/or the new capsule-shaped zone (for an example of multiple falloffs and capsule zone, see Shoulder front-back or buttocks side-side

Interesting... multiple falloffs. I wonder if this could be accomplished in Poser 7?

Quote - The basic bone structure is pretty much the same as the G2 figures.  The grouping is a little different - they went back to having the breasts as part of the collar, for the female figure, instead of having them on the chest bone.

The joints themselves are very different, the new figures make heavy use of the new extensions to Poser's rigging system.  Many bones have multiple deformers, some up to 4.  The new rig has MANY MANY MORE magnets built into it than Sydney's did, so along with the new extra multiple deformers thing, good luck getting these figures exported into any other app.

I think this could be an issue with creating new clothing using some of the tools I normally use.  A few vendors I am going to need to contact about this and see what they have to say.

has anyone tried the hair room?

You can take it for granted that Phil Cooke's WW2 that is integrated with Poser 8 will produce correct rigs for the new figures, if you use that. 

For Morphing Clothes in particular, I do not expect that any change will be required as it does not examine the details of a figure's rig, it just converts morphs.  I've tested several conformers that I did for V4 and they work well, from what I've seen so far.  In rigging clothing for Alyson I think it's unlikely to be any different, although I'm sure Ralf is on top of things there.

For any prior figures and conformers for same, as far as I can tell they work just the same - actually significantly better, in the case of "superconforming" ERC morphs and stuff, because you are now shown the value of the master dial as well as the "slave" dial.

Haven't touched the hair room although Operaguy said it seems to work well and is much faster.

Quote - Interesting... multiple falloffs. I wonder if this could be accomplished in Poser 7?

Oops, I meant to reply to this: multiple falloff zones is a key new feature in Poser 8, and on paper it is quite cool.  It should make many aspects of joint bending that are corrected with joint-controlled morphs (JCM) obsolete.  It cannot be duplicated in older versions of Poser and as you were thinking, some external rigging tools will probably not work with it.  I guess DAZ will have to be on the ball to reverse engineer it for DAZ|Studio, or maybe they will be able to obtain an SDK for it.

I wonder if  we can update some figures with this new rigging. Can't get P8 till the 14th of this month due to that is pay day (maybe my last at this job :crying: )

Since the Poser 8 characters have these new joints and joint setups, does this mean that universal poses from Poser 7 (or other poses) will work well with them...or not? 

Quote - I wonder if  we can update some figures with this new rigging. (:::)

To me one of the most important questions.

Yes, it appears that you can add extra deformers to existing rigs, although I haven't actually done this.  I also don't know if re-writing the CR2 will bork up any existing ERC dials and controls (by extension, JCMs) but since ERC is now pretty much an embraced feature, I think it should have a happy ending there.

Be aware that Poser 8 still has the falloff zone symmetry bug, and more falloff zones appears to make it appear more often (at least eleven occurrences in the Alyson figure).  Steve Cooper assured me he wants to get this resolved, I sure look forward to that.  I haven't spent any time adjusting falloff zones, I don't know if the tumbling falloff zone bug is resolved (hope so).

Quote - Since the Poser 8 characters have these new joints and joint setups, does this mean that universal poses from Poser 7 (or other poses) will work well with them...or not? 

Since pose files do not "care" about falloff zones when they are saved or loaded, I don't see why they would work differently for the new figures.  I tried 20 or so and they appear to be fine.

"Since the Poser 8 characters have these new joints and joint setups, does this mean that universal poses from Poser 7 (or other poses) will work well with them...or not?"

There are a lot of "Universal" poses in Pose 8. I tried some of them on Ryan. The results were disappointing.

LMK

I'll say it, from what I see those figures aren't only ugly, they're hideous.  They look like the result of a failed plastic surgery performed by a blind doctor wearing boxing gloves.

They don't look like human people.

There are some fairly glaring anatomy problems, yeah.

What about render engine performance?
Same engine or better?

Quote - I'll say it, from what I see those figures aren't only ugly, they're hideous.  They look like the result of a failed plastic surgery performed by a blind doctor wearing boxing gloves.

They don't look like human people.

I don't understand why everyone's fixating on how these figures look. Most people are going to change them in the face room or with the morph brush anyway. I know people who can't stand the way V4 or V3 look either but you when you see them usually it's a character someone's created anyway.

Hey! It is an honored tradition to bash new figures!! Have some respect!

I dunno. That neck/collar area just doesn't look at all believable to me. I suspect that's not very easy to fix via her morphs? Maybe a sculpt would do it.

No doubt the collar is wrong, but I'm only dealing with the face at the moment. Mostly the chin and nose.

Pretty hard to change the shape of the nostrils all that much with the built in morphs, although I don't think you actually started with the Alyson morph did you.

I did start with Alyson - no morphs, not any of the other variants.

Then I did as much as I could using existing morphs, but not any of the character ones. Then started working with the morph tool and push/pull/smooth.

I put in a feature request about the morph tool asking for an option to restrict the influence of the brush to a radius of verts on the surface under the brush, instead of a sphere.  The tool is pretty hard to use on a character's face in its current form, imo.  You can create groups and set the brush to only affect that group but you still have the problem of what happens when you hit the border of that group, it mangles the mesh.