Quote - I'm curious about something with Antonia.
In all figures I've ever seen, rotating the body has been a no-no, as the body always rotates around the origin. That's fine if your figure is at 0,0,0, but really bad if it's away from the origin. I see by loading the obj into Lightwave Modeler that the body origin is in fact what I would expect, just like all Poser figures, origin at 0 on the X and Z, and standing on the ground.
Yet in Antonia's case, the body rotates around its own center, no matter where it is in the scene. How is this possible?

I set it up that way purposely, it is in a symbiotic relationship with the hiphandle (rootbone.) It is very important that it stays there or the feet will lift of the ground when you xrot the hip.

Quote -
I set it up that way purposely, it is in a symbiotic relationship with the hiphandle (rootbone.) It is very important that it stays there or the feet will lift of the ground when you xrot the hip.

Well I'll say you did a helluva great job, man! Really nice rigging there.

Quote - > Quote -

I set it up that way purposely, it is in a symbiotic relationship with the hiphandle (rootbone.) It is very important that it stays there or the feet will lift of the ground when you xrot the hip.

Well I'll say you did a helluva great job, man! Really nice rigging there.

Thanks Mike. I had fun working it out. odf has improved on my stuff alot but I'm happy to have contributed something to Antonia.

Just playing around and thought I'd share.

I was trying to get all the morphs I've done so far packed up and uploaded to the developers site this evening, but that unfortunately didn't happen, so I'll have to save it for tommorow :o).

Time for bed ;o).

Laurie

Now I have the Disney song, Cruella De Ville, playing in my head!!!

I thought of the same character Cruella De Ville as soon as I saw the pic.  :) Must be a true likeness.  I like it!

Get those dang dalmation pups Cruella, make a coat of them!   :biggrin:

Laurie, what program do you use for making morph targets?

Quote -
Thanks Mike. I had fun working it out. odf has improved on my stuff alot but I'm happy to have contributed something to Antonia.

Oh well you're most welcome, sir.

I'm trying to make a pair of shorts for her in Zbrush, but having trouble with the export and scaling. I asked about it in the ZB forum, hopefully someone can give me some info. Were I doing it in Lightwave I wouldn't have a scale problem, but I hate trying to model organic things in Lightwave.

@MikeJ: I saw a video a few days ago in which ObjAction Scaler was used for that. I think it's still free, but I can't be bothered to search for it.

Use ObjAction scaler to scale it up about by 500 and then scale it back down when done.. Zbrush doesn't like the small Poser scaling.

OOPS cross post. And yes its free, just google it.

P.S. dont use the poser scaler from the ZB forums, it is not accurate, it has rounding errors.

Thanks, I'll check it out.
ObjAction Scaler. Now there's a blast from the past - that's been around forever. I have that on an old Poser CD I made about a decade ago. ;-)

ObjAction Scaler

http://www.sandylodge.demon.co.uk/ 

It's under utilities. :biggrin:

Attached Link: http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=65410

if you have the versio  3.1 or 3.12 mac you can try the zbrush plugin

Quote - Laurie, what program do you use for making morph targets?

Poser 7's morph brush ;o).

Laurie

 Art can be made with any tools in talented hands.  You did good, Laurie.

Quote -  Art can be made with any tools in talented hands.  You did good, Laurie.

Thankee ;o).

The files are up now if developers wanna play with em.

Laurie

Quote - Use ObjAction scaler to scale it up about by 500 and then scale it back down when done.. Zbrush doesn't like the small Poser scaling.

OOPS cross post. And yes its free, just google it.

P.S. dont use the poser scaler from the ZB forums, it is not accurate, it has rounding errors.

I believe they may have fixed that in the latest update to the plugin - I've never found any problems going between poser/ZBrush/Poser using it

Quote - > Quote -  Art can be made with any tools in talented hands.  You did good, Laurie.

Thankee ;o).

The files are up now if developers wanna play with em.

Laurie

Thank you so much. I will have a go with them as soon as I find time.

Quote - I made some elf ears for Antonia-114. I ziped them up as a PMD injection package. I was pleasantly surprised at the size of the zip, only 15 KB. I'll see if I can attach them to my next post.

Very cool!! Those will go nicely with a character I'm working on ;o).

Laurie

Extract the zip to your main Poser folder. More details are in the zip file in the "Elf Ears A.txt". The file to apply the morph will be placed in the path:

RuntimelibrariesPoseAntoniaInjectionsLes InjElf Ears A.pz2

Cool stuff, Les! Hey, have you given me your email address yet? You need to be on the hyper-secret developers site. :-D

 HYPER-secret? @___@  I thought it was just super-secret!  Do we have to kill people who know the secrets who aren't members?  Do we get decoder rings or watches that shoot laser beams? Sniper-rifles?  ANY cool spy gadgets?

I want a cool cool spy gadget, dammit.

:laugh: Hyper-secret.  COOL.

Who's making the secret agent gear for Antonia to wear?

 I will make a body suit for her if I can get my real life straighteneed out enough to work for a day or two.   I brought it up, so I guess the ball is in my court.

Dammit. >__<  :laugh:

I need to get my paying project out of the way, first, though.

Oh by the way, thank you, odf, for this excellent figure, and thank you to everyone else who has contributed! :-)

@Laurie: I had a quick play with your head morphs just now. Excellent work! I've uploaded the PMD version to the developers site. I remembered that Jules53757 has some additional head morphs on his site, but I couldn't find them in my runtimes. I should download them again and see how the two sets go together.

@MikeJ: Good job on the fingernails. Yeah, the texture and the shape do not go together. Maybe someone will make an alternative texture.

I think I will try to set up a provisional non-secret (some might call it official) Antonia web site over the weekend, so that we can start collecting the content that's been made public on there and maybe have an FAQ and such. I'm starting to get confused. :laugh:

Laurie: A few small things I noticed.

• The wide smile looks really great, but while making the lips a lot wider, it doesn't make them thinner. So the effect is that the lips grow in volume when she smiles. In a real person, that could obviously not happen.

• The squint morphs and the other ones that influence the lower lids crumple the mesh a bit. That's no big deal, but a little bit of smoothing would probably make them play nicer at high settings or when combined with other morphs.

• The morph for making the lower lip fuller is really quite asymmetric.

I'm thinking maybe it would be good if a wrote a script to symmetrize morphs and maybe optionally split them into their right and left halves. That way we could add asymmetry to a character in a more controlled way. Of course that would produce a large number of additional morph targets, so I guess next we'd need a script to batch-load a whole bunch of morphs at once and create INJ/REM from them. :laugh:

I'd also like to transfer the morphs made for the high-res version of Antonia to the low-res version automatically.

sighs So many things to do, so little attention span.

 One ther thing, odf:  Groups!  The facial morphs should be kept in morph groups like V4 and other figures.  That really keeps stuff organized and confusion to a minimum.  WIth some figures, it maddening to look for an expression morph for eyes, and can only find brow morphs for instance.

Breaking down everything into groups that make findable sense would be a good thing.

Opinions? Input?

JOELGLAINE: Yes, definitely groups! And that's what finally convinced me that "just use PMDs" isn't the answer, not even if we assume everyone has P6 or higher or that script for Studio that makes PMDs work.

I've just created a thread in the Poser Technical forum, and I'll sketch some of my ideas in there, both regarding morph injection and regarding grouping.

I don't know who's done what so far, since I'm new to this, but I made some nose morphs. The usual stuff, tip up, tip down, flat, bump... 8 nose morphs in all so far.
Renderosity won't allow me to attach the file, even with a .txt extension. I guess it's too big, even though it's only half a meg, so I'm putting it on my Comcast personal web space, here:

mj41865.home.comcast.net/AntoniaStuff/NOSES.zip

OBJ files again.
I think I'm going to work on making better nail morphs later. I probably should have applied the textures before dragging vertices around, but I figured if I kept the geometry spacing consistent it would be OK. I figured wrong. ;-)

What kind of morphs do you guys think Antonia needs? I've got nothing better to do all day, and I love morphing stuff.

The head morphs are included in the AntoniaMorphINJ.zip on the developers side in the subfolder Pose sets.

Yeah I've seen those, but I meant I didn't know who's been uploading what - stuff that might have already been made but not in the "official" files yet.

Quote - Laurie: A few small things I noticed.

• The wide smile looks really great, but while making the lips a lot wider, it doesn't make them thinner. So the effect is that the lips grow in volume when she smiles. In a real person, that could obviously not happen.

• The squint morphs and the other ones that influence the lower lids crumple the mesh a bit. That's no big deal, but a little bit of smoothing would probably make them play nicer at high settings or when combined with other morphs.

• The morph for making the lower lip fuller is really quite asymmetric.

I'm thinking maybe it would be good if a wrote a script to symmetrize morphs and maybe optionally split them into their right and left halves. That way we could add asymmetry to a character in a more controlled way. Of course that would produce a large number of additional morph targets, so I guess next we'd need a script to batch-load a whole bunch of morphs at once and create INJ/REM from them. :laugh:

I'd also like to transfer the morphs made for the high-res version of Antonia to the low-res version automatically.

sighs So many things to do, so little attention span.

Oh, I know a lot of them aren't perfect...lol! As for the mouth, I'm having a lot of trouble with that area in particular because I can't find a good way to separate the top lip from the bottom lip. There's no good way to open her jaw...at least not from what I found in her existing morphs. Am I missing something? ;o).

There IS a way to make them symmetrical if we could split them as you suggested somehow and then set them up in Poser so that they match and then re-export the morph target again. I've "massaged" a couple morphs I had problems with by setting up the morphs on Antonia with no textures, only a matte color, using the morph tool to fix what I was able to see and re-exporting the morph again. If there's a way you can take the side of the morph that you like the best and mirror it to the other side in your modeling program, that would be ideal. You can split any morph in Poser, so maybe it's doable... Of course this is coming from someone who has no real modeling experience and has no idea what's doable or not ;o).

Laurie

Laurie: I have my own set of tools for manipulating obj files which I use on Antonia all the time. I'd go crazy if I didn't have them. :laugh: So in principle, there's a lot of wicked stuff I can do with morphs. I just have to find the time to actually write the code.

For example I have a program that mirrors a morph, and one that fixes broken numbering and at the same time transfers a morph from the low-res to the high-res version or vice versa.

But I think the two most important things at the moment are to get the official Antonia site going and to figure out how we're going to manage all those morphs that people are making. I've just posted my basic idea on Poser Technical, so take a look if you're interested.

I think eventually Antonia should come with a number of Python scripts both for morph "producers" and morph "consumers". There should be one script, for example, that reads a whole bunch of obj files and produces a pair of INJ/REM poses from them. There should be another one that enables users to load two morph sets produced by different people side by side in the same figure without conflicts. Hopefully, I will be able to adapt some code from the resident Python gurus for that.

Okay, time for little odfs to brush their teeth, read the appendices to Dune and, err, peruse some anatomical reference material.

Nightynight! :sleep:

Hey, odf...if you can let me know which morphs you're having problems with specifically, I'll give them another go over :o). Names, names, I need names...lol ;o).

Laurie

 For organizational purposes, putting identifying names should be at the end of the morph name is I read you right. As in example: Eyes Squint-Laurie.  

I know that is NOT what you're asking ,Laurie, but I was thinking of all the different morphes with 'same name problems'  I was thinking of a way to organize them so we can pick and choose through them.  I don't care whose morphs win the competiton, mine or whose ever's.

I just want Antonia to have the best we can produce.  For instance if my Mouth open helps seperate the lips enough to work on so you can do a morph--USE IT!  I do NOT care about the credit!  This is a community project, IMO.

So go for it. :laugh:  My ego is big enough to survive without credit. LOLOLOLOLOL

Quote -  For organizational purposes, putting identifying names should be at the end of the morph name is I read you right. As in example: Eyes Squint-Laurie.  

I know that is NOT what you're asking ,Laurie, but I was thinking of all the different morphes with 'same name problems'  I was thinking of a way to organize them so we can pick and choose through them.  I don't care whose morphs win the competiton, mine or whose ever's.

I just want Antonia to have the best we can produce.  For instance if my Mouth open helps seperate the lips enough to work on so you can do a morph--USE IT!  I do NOT care about the credit!  This is a community project, IMO.

So go for it. :laugh:  My ego is big enough to survive without credit. LOLOLOLOLOL

I could very easily put "LA" at the beginning or end of every one, just to keep the names from clashing - not for credit purposes, cause I really don't care about that either...lol.

As for the lips open, it really doesn't work as well as I hoped it would...it distorts the mesh and after you've done the morphs and reclose the mouth...oh, it looks terrible...lol. Her jaw needs to open before I can do those so I can really work on the top lip and bottom lip totally independantly.

Laurie

 At the end would be better so  finding like named (IE: Eyes Open, Eyes Squint, etc.) could be alphabetized and not be more confusing that otherwise.

Independant lip morphing is a problem I can't help you with.

odf--you said you can fix vertex  orders?

I have a head mesh that I did something to  and messed the vertex order up on.  I don't want to redo the thing from sctrach.  Could you symtricalize it if I sent it to ya?    All my morphing needs to have a symetric vertex positioning for the symettry morphs to work.  I'm trying my hand at starting a figure mesh, and already screwed it up. :(

Wow, take a few days away from the comp and look what happens!
I am sure behind on this thread.

Has anyone made Toni some nice vampire or wolf-like fangs yet?
Please, please, please!!!

@odf,

Quote - I think I will try to set up a provisional non-secret (some might call it official) Antonia web site over the weekend, so that we can start collecting the content that's been made public on there and maybe have an FAQ and such. I'm starting to get confused.

Could the new site have a forum or fora. That would be very cool.

@MikeJ,

Quote - What kind of morphs do you guys think Antonia needs? I've got nothing better to do all day, and I love morphing stuff.

I don't know what expression morphs already exist for Antonia, but IMHO you can't have too many versions of expressions. That's one of the big short comings with most of the figures out there, plenty of face shape morphs, not enough facial expression morphs.

@JOELGLAINE,

Quote - At the end would be better so  finding like named (IE: Eyes Open, Eyes Squint, etc.) could be alphabetized and not be more confusing that otherwise.

I second that motion!

 I agree with the facial expressions.  

Mine were just a springboard for other folks.  It's up to Olaf to choose which he likes most.  I know he's going to do some, so he can decide which are the best.  If I were he, I'd cherry pick the best and discard the the rest.  He has a pretty good eye, and I don't really care if mine get dumped in favor of better.  The main thing is the project and doing the best we can on it as time allows, IMO.  As long as I get mentioned in the readme as helping out, that is good enough for me.  I've learned TONS of stuff working on this!

I work cheap. LOLOLOLOL:laugh:

btw--My facial expression morphs are NOT full facial morphs, just areas.  As such Laughter, Anger and such which SHOULD afftect the WHOLE face are not yet done,AFAIK.

Those are areas for developement.

Quote - ... What kind of morphs do you guys think Antonia needs? I've got nothing better to do all day, and I love morphing stuff.

Well, as for me, I'm doing alright on sculpting morphs but not so well on expression morphs ;o).

Laurie

Quote - ...It's up to Olaf to choose which he likes most.  I know he's going to do some, so he can decide which are the best.  If I were he, I'd cherry pick the best and discard the the rest.  He has a pretty good eye, and I don't really care if mine get dumped in favor of better....

I agree...

The beauty of all this is (for those of us who have already created them) we can still use our own morphs if we want to, because we still have em on our computer! lol.

Laurie

Quote -

I think I will try to set up a provisional non-secret (some might call it official) Antonia web site over the weekend, so that we can start collecting the content that's been made public on there and maybe have an FAQ and such. I'm starting to get confused. :laugh:

Olaf, if you need Webspace, it's easy for me to create Subdomains on my Webspace. At the moment I have about 4.5 GB of free space and about 145 GB of unused transfer volume. This changes to unlimited volume from September 1st.

I'll see what kind of expression morphs I can do. I might be able to whip out a few over the next day or so, but they take a good while, considering the whole face is affected by something like, say, a laugh or a sneer.
Most face parts have never given me much trouble aside from eyelid motion. Damn eyelids, the lashes are always in the way. ;-)

Three things I would love to see on her if anyone is even remotely interested:

1.  a big eye/alien eye/fae eye morph with a slanted eye morph to go with it.
2.  A morph that will give her the look  of nervously nibbling her lower lip like The Girl first came out with...I am not sure if DAZ eventually added it to the Mil3 and Mil4 Vicki or Aiko or Girl but I always loved it on the Girl when she first came out with it and always wished it was made available for the old V2.
3.  High cheek bones/sunken cheeks and puffy cheeks as if blowing air and a pucker as if kissing.
4.  Longer ear lobes for old girl or heavy ear rings look. Whenever iadd heavy hoops to V2 i lengthen her ear lobes a bit to make it look more realistic.
5.  Flex calves/and strong calf morphs for when she wears higher heel shoes or walks barefoot.
6.  Toe articulation morphs for those obsessed with feets!  :)

IMO, some of them are already there, I'll check and may provide a list of already existing morphs.

It's on my To do list now