I have  trying everything under the sun to get my P8 to display the  Library
window . After 3 weeks of emails  Working with SM tech support  we finally narrowed the
problem to  Norton AntiVirus program called Norton 360. I contacted Norton they verified
that the problem was due to **Norton 360 is not compatible with MSIE 8.  **I had just installed
MSIE 8 to be compatible with P8 and Adobe Flash. Norton upgraded me for free and that fixed the problem....with P8.
I hope this info will be of help to somone else who may be experiencing the same problem.

Added comment:
I think that if P8 is so reliant on outside applications to function, then
we could to be in for a world of future problems when updates and patches are installed
to these applications.  I wish SM would have  kept all the code within the application itself
instead of relying on on these outside "hooks". This is one of the conseqences of doing
it....

You would have had the same problem with Google Desktop search. This is the future - little web/application servers inside applications doing work inside your PC, returning results to web based tools and accessible through RESTful web API's. Once the basic issues are ironed out, you'll see a lot more stuff possible because Poser has an app server in it. Other programs can be integrated to use Poser as a service, to control Poser to do automated scene creation and rendering, etc.

Growing pains always hurt.

I'm not sure if I'll like this option.  Everything becomes a house of cards where a problem in one application begins to take down everything.  Outlook Express used to be a great newsreader till it became more entwined with IE.  I've had problems in Windows Explorer trash IE. Now antivirus programs are preventing people from using software they purchase.

Windows based software has never been the most compatible stuff in the world and creating ever greater interdependencies on that software seems like a tech support nightmare where people will be incapable of running software on their own right out of the box.

I agree it is a greater support issue, but one that can easily be solved. There's not a lot of justifiable reason that AV and Firewalls are allowing your browser to go anywhere on the net and show you content, but not to an app server on your own computer. That's really silly, don't you think?

And then, how do you weigh the benefits against that minor problem when you don't even know what the benefits are yet?

I can't prove to you this is a good thing without discussing product plans that are simply not to be discussed in a public forum yet. However, there will be significant benefit to a more distributed architecture for content management. Right now, we're just trying to get basic file listing and searching within the same machine. This is not an architectural problem - it's just a misconfiguration.

Try explaining that to the bean crunchers. Interdependancies save money because the code is already written. That's the plain and simple truth for the logic behind using these methods. They save companies time and money by not having to hire programmers to do actual coding for things that already exist, but they also open you up to inderdependancy failiures as we see with your issue.

Is the need for MSIE8 for the connection to Smith Micro updates and the online Content Paradise store ?

If yes, then under Preferences inside of Poser, the check for updates function can be switched off.  

( Only guessing here becos not upgraded yet, still using Poser Pro )

Quote - Is the need for MSIE8 for the connection to Smith Micro updates and the online Content Paradise store ?

If yes, then under Preferences inside of Poser, the check for updates function can be switched off.  

( Only guessing here becos not upgraded yet, still using Poser Pro )

No. The library GUI isn't using the Internet. It's using application server XML services embedded in Poser to interact with it via TCP loopback connections. 

Telling Poser not to check for updates over the Internet is a completely separate issue. 

Quote - Try explaining that to the bean crunchers. Interdependancies save money because the code is already written. That's the plain and simple truth for the logic behind using these methods. They save companies time and money by not having to hire programmers to do actual coding for things that already exist, but they also open you up to inderdependancy failiures as we see with your issue.

That's not the reason it is written this way, though. This is about having a RESTful application server in Poser and a content management GUI that uses that, and potentially other services distributed on the Internet, to assemble metadata and give you access to content beyond your own runtime.

 OK so this is similar to using prpcd for example, in which an allowed port is opened and used for say, Poser Advance Library to load content directly into the Poser workspace ?

( sorry for hijacking the post, but important to know the issues before I upgrade, thanks )

You say tomato Bill. It saves money not having to pay programmers to write that application server for Poser since it already exists, which was exactly what I said. If SM wanted to pour buckets of money into Poser they could hire programmers to recreate the wheels that already exist, but it's just not cost effiecient to do so. We wouldn't run into issues with it not working because of IE, but we'd be looking at a much larger price tag for Poser.

Speaking of browsers, does Poser 8 for the Mac require IE8 also? I'll bet Mac users HATE that if it's the case.

Using other company's code means loss of Poser's own code portability. IMHO that's not always a good idea and a source of more problems in maintaining it later on. Just my 2 cents. 

They should have never done the library the way they've done it. SM can blame any other application for Poser not working (I had to get a different firewall to get poser working), but in the end they made the dumb decision to use flash/xml for the library, instead of writing it in the original code Poser is written in.

Imo if they didn't want to make the llibrary internal, whay didn't they ask some of those phyton guys to write a new library? That would have saved us tons of problems, their libraries work great and flawless. SM should have thought twice before implementing the new library.

Quote - You would have had the same problem with Google Desktop search. This is the future - little web/application servers inside applications doing work inside your PC, returning results to web based tools and accessible through RESTful web API's. Once the basic issues are ironed out, you'll see a lot more stuff possible because Poser has an app server in it. Other programs can be integrated to use Poser as a service, to control Poser to do automated scene creation and rendering, etc.

Growing pains always hurt.

Joy, joy, joy..... I'm jumping up and down with exitement...... but not really. More trouble to come, more waste of system resources, more crashes, more hassle, more features I'll never use.

I'm still using windows XP..... simply because it avoids some of these unwanted things from the future. I know some are thrilled with new developments, but most of this new stuff doesn't excite me. Soon we'll have a Poser that depends on so many external apps, that we're all going to need a top of the line pc with lot's of RAM to even do something with it. Then we'll be running Poser of some kind of server and can't even use it without a constant internet connection.

Yes, I'm really thrilled about the future of Poser now..... :-(

Quote - Speaking of browsers, does Poser 8 for the Mac require IE8 also? I'll bet Mac users HATE that if it's the case.

No, it will use whatever the wxWidgets library is setup to use on Macs (almost certainly a control based on WebKit like Safari is).

bagginsbill, I have a question, right now I have my new P8 on this one computer, I am planning on moving it to my major pc that I don't have hooked to the internet, no virus scanner or spyware on this pc either, strictly a pc for Poser and other 3d apps, it works great, but reading the above makes me wonder if Poser 8 will work correctly if it is not on the internet......can you tell me if it will work on my main pc not being hooked to the internet?

Sharen

Quote - and potentially other services distributed on the Internet, to assemble metadata and give you access to content beyond your own runtime.

Interesting! Can you say any more on this?

Quote - > Quote - and potentially other services distributed on the Internet, to assemble metadata and give you access to content beyond your own runtime.

Interesting! Can you say any more on this?

Imagine a server with accessible content. You search that content data base for a prop or character you would like to use (displayed through your library browser). You then can click on it and load it directly to your scene in poser just like it was loaded from the runtime on your drive. At least that is what I suspect is in the works.

I'd even hazard a guess there would be a monthly fee for that access? Or would it be a fee per item accessed? Hmmmm.....Ok I'm thinking to much again. Forget I said any of that stuff...

Quote - bagginsbill, I have a question, right now I have my new P8 on this one computer, I am planning on moving it to my major pc that I don't have hooked to the internet, no virus scanner or spyware on this pc either, strictly a pc for Poser and other 3d apps, it works great, but reading the above makes me wonder if Poser 8 will work correctly if it is not on the internet......can you tell me if it will work on my main pc not being hooked to the internet?

Sharen

I have my p8 on a quad core w 12gb if I close my internet connection the library disappears and  remains blank until the internet connection is restored.  Also if you install old content the rsr's are not converted to png's.  The coders decided not to support their own products.  As a matter of practice the internet does not exist when my machine renders, the internet is not connected, Vue7inf, carrara7,maya5,poser45678,lightwave.  so bagginsbill take that back to the coders please.  Try p8 on your main machine and goodluck

Quote - > Quote - bagginsbill, I have a question, right now I have my new P8 on this one computer, I am planning on moving it to my major pc that I don't have hooked to the internet, no virus scanner or spyware on this pc either, strictly a pc for Poser and other 3d apps, it works great, but reading the above makes me wonder if Poser 8 will work correctly if it is not on the internet......can you tell me if it will work on my main pc not being hooked to the internet?

Sharen

I have my p8 on a quad core w 12gb if I close my internet connection the library disappears and  remains blank until the internet connection is restored.  Also if you install old content the rsr's are not converted to png's.  The coders decided not to support their own products.  As a matter of practice the internet does not exist when my machine renders, the internet is not connected, Vue7inf, carrara7,maya5,poser45678,lightwave.  so bagginsbill take that back to the coders please.  Try p8 on your main machine and goodluck

I do believe he is the coder....... the people who normally code Poser, didn't make the library. SM, for some reason, decided to go the easy and cheaper way.

"Also if you install old content the rsr's are not converted to png's. "

read the readme. this is explained in that.

using the loopback address should not require the system to have an active internet connection. However using 127.0.0.1  as the address can lead to major problems if it is defined for use by a proxy agent, like the dialup accellerators.  Thats the problem with hooks, other applications may have already used them.  

127.0.0.1 is not specific to an app. It represents the whole machine.  A particular port is used to specify which app within the machine.

127.0.0.1 is not some arbitrary thing that SM came up with. It is the standard loopback address for all IP stacks since the dawn of time. There is no other option for the loop back address. You can't change it. It's not a configurable option.  It's part of the standard.

You can configure (via hosts file) any number of aliases for it, such as the alias "localhost". it is this alias that is problematic. The standard doesn't require that the word "localhost" means 127.0.0.1 - that is just a convention.

The IP V6 standard for the loopback address is ::1, and this is somtimes also aliased to the name localhost. When the hosts file says localhost is both 127.0.0.1 and ::1, then it doesn't work at all. This is what Microsoft did wrong in the default hosts file for Vista.

Okay, so if I install Poser 8 on my off internet pc.....I won't have a runtime library?  Sharen

I've decided not to argue with people - they do things and see things and say things, not necessarily connected.

All i know is what I designed, how TCP/IP works, and what is supposed to happen if you don't bork it up by turning off the communication stack.

Look at this screen shot. (Click for full size) I have disabled all my Internet connections, but internal communication using TCP/IP has not been disabled. After disabling all Internet hardware, I launch Poser and the library comes up just fine.

Oh, by the way, SM hiring me to write this was most definitely NOT the cheapest solution. Having been one of the people who designed and implemented many of the Internet protocols in use today, as well as many large-scale distributed applications making heavy use of the Internet in innovative ways, I am decidedly not the lowest bidder. But you guys just carry on making stuff up. Since I'm paid for my expertise on these subjects, the opinions of those of you who are not don't really matter too much.

don't listen to aeilkema bill. he's constantly complaining about something. I'd worry more if he STOP's complaining cos then something will be wrong. **
**

Quote - > Quote - Speaking of browsers, does Poser 8 for the Mac require IE8 also? I'll bet Mac users HATE that if it's the case.

No, it will use whatever the wxWidgets library is setup to use on Macs (almost certainly a control based on WebKit like Safari is).

Yes, it is WebKit/Safari.

I'm afraid that I've been lurking on this and other threads devoted to the new Library in Poser 8.  Unfortunately, I am one of the people that, after trying everything that's been described to fix the problem, still cannot see the Library in Poser 8 at all.

In the end, I moved all of my Poser content (P6-P8) to a portable drive, and upgraded my P3d0 Explorer to recognize P8 as a valid Poser program.  I can now at least use the program with P3d0 to load and save stuff.  I had to do the move to the portable (500 gig) drive because I was running out of room on my internal 250 gig drive, which was just adding to my problems.

Of course, now that I'm on a portable drive I despair of ever getting the Library to work properly because of the need for the content to be on a Shared Drive.  How do you share a portable drive?  When I right clicked on the Poser folder on the drive, it told me that to share this folder I had to drag it to the shared folder (which, unless I'm grossly mistaken) resides on my C: drive and would then over fill the drive's capacity again.  The only way that I can see that working is if the shared folder does not in fact contain the folder contents but a link to them...

AhHa! BB is really Tim Berners Lee or maybe Al Gore. 

The problem here IMO, is that people see firewall or TCP/IP and immediately think internet. Poser AFAIK has never used the internet to function, apart from the ill fated activation scheme for I think P5. It has and may still try to access the local network to look for ther copies of itself and now apparently uses standard networking protocols for it's own internal purposes. I have a local webserver running on my system. It uses the local address http://127.0.0.1 or http://localhost or http://Diana (the name of the machine) to access web pages hosted locally and has nothing to do with the internet. If you have two or more machines on a local network, they are likely using the same protocol - again completely apart from the internet.

Now there are hints being given that in the future, the internet will be involved in some kind of cloud based content repository and who knows what else - collaboration between users, peer to peer render farms, subscription access to optional features - there are a lot of possibilities.

Given that the standard communications protocols already exist and ensure inter-operability it would have made no sense to write something else. Choosing how to implement the interface is another issue. You can use TCP/IP, HTTP, XML-RPC, SOAP etc. without using a browser control or Flash/Flex. I believe that BB alluded in another post that this was SM's preferred architecture. So yes, IMO they could have written code in Poser to handle those functions. Whether their decision was based on cost, complexity, future plans etc. I don't know. I would be surprised if cross-platform compatibility wasn't one issue. If you want to display rich interactive content on different platforms (PC+Mac), it's easier to use Flash and a browser and let Adobe et al worry about doing the coding than to implement and maintain your own interface twice.

Why do I get the feeling BB is beavering away somewhere writing a web based renderfarm system for Poser ?
:biggrin:
RFC1149 anyone ?

Quote - Oh, by the way, SM hiring me to write this was most definitely NOT the cheapest solution. Having been one of the people who designed and implemented many of the Internet protocols in use today, as well as many large-scale distributed applications making heavy use of the Internet in innovative ways, I am decidedly not the lowest bidder. But you guys just carry on making stuff up. Since I'm paid for my expertise on these subjects, the opinions of those of you who are not don't really matter too much.

Wondering who's really making up stuff now....... Don't worry, from now on I will not bother you again, I wouldn't dare to do so. After all you're right up there with Sir Timothy John Berners-Lee and Bill Gates. Thank you for helping us lowly Poser users, by giving us the almighty flash library...... which in my very humble opinion still sucks. But, who am I to think such things, now I know who you are?

If I don't reply for a while that is due to me being outside, watching the stars through on of my telescopes. After all am I a famous astronomer and have to keep up with my reputation. CU all later.

An Optimized Topology for Connecting Multiple Naked Vickies With Swords in Geographically Distributed Temples.

A Framework for Distributed Collaborative Masturbation Using 3D Avatars.

Feds Bust International Naked Faerie Rendering Network.

Palin: 'Obama Will Force You to Join Socialist Render Farms.'

Quote - Using other company's code means loss of Poser's own code portability. IMHO that's not always a good idea and a source of more problems in maintaining it later on. Just my 2 cents. 

Portability? You think writing your own version of everything for Poser and Mac is more portable than using off-the-shelf components?

I'm sorry, but your argument is exactly backwards - Flash and XML and HTML and TCP were used precisely because there are cross-platform portable implementations for PC, Mac, and Linux. If we did not have to do the Mac version, we would not have used Flash.

Take a deep breath everyone....in with the good air, out with the bad....and listen to what bb is saying. He never SAID he was Berners Lee or that you had to be connected to the internet for Poser 8 libraries to work. Just read what he wrote.

Now, we can all be civil....

Laurie

Quote - Imo if they didn't want to make the llibrary internal, whay didn't they ask some of those phyton guys to write a new library?

I assume this is supposed to be Python (phyton). They did ask Python guys, of which I am one.
I asked them that on day one when they approached me about writing the Library GUI in Python.
The reasons were that

1. this new GUI isn't just for Poser and Python wasn't really an option
   2) wxPython is not as sophisticated visually as Flash is
   3) Python does not interface with XML and web-based services with the ease and power of expression that Flex/AS3 does.
2. Asynchronous activity is not as easy in Python as it is in AS3. To make it easy would require reproducing much of the support framework that comes for free in Flash. 

I also asked why they didn't just incorporate one of the existing Library add-ons that were already built by various people for Poser.

Each was rejected for one or more of the following reasons:

1) Didn't work on Mac
2) Wouldn't work with Internet content

1. Didn't have necessary provisions consistent with future plans
   4) Required installation of a database

Quote - I'm afraid that I've been lurking on this and other threads devoted to the new Library in Poser 8.  Unfortunately, I am one of the people that, after trying everything that's been described to fix the problem, still cannot see the Library in Poser 8 at all.

Did you do what I talked about here?

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?message_id=3509473&ebot_calc_page#message_3509473

Could you try following those instructions and let me know what you see?

There appears to be a simple browser setting that prevents talking to your own computer.

 BB My hat's off to you! Wow I couldn't have responded to that with as much calm. 

Gawd, people.. I've asked in numerous threads to those who couldn't see the library IF THEY HAD NORTON or not. No one bothered to reply, yet Norton is KNOWN to cause havoc with a LOT of installations. NOT just Poser. Why anyone would even let that virus program anywhere near their computer is beyond me. There are so many better - and free solutions that does NOT feck up Poser.

And stop taking your problems out on BB! He did a super job with the library and it's not his fault that your computer may be configured in an odd way.

"no I didn't invent it but I built it for DEC"  DECNet?

My first work PC was a Rainbow 100 - later tried with no luck to convince them to get a MicroVAX. Twas a sad day when Ken Olsen's baby got devoured by Compaq and later flushed through the bowels of HP.

Quote - "no I didn't invent it but I built it for DEC"  DECNet?

My first work PC was a Rainbow 100 - later tried with no luck to convince them to get a MicroVAX. Twas a sad day when Ken Olsen's baby got devoured by Compaq and later flushed through the bowels of HP.

Yep. I was a consultant to DEC for over 2 years. The Rainbow was the box I worked on - I built the TCP/IP stack for it, as well as many other projects. I loved that thing.

Quote - > Quote - Okay, so if I install Poser 8 on my off internet pc.....I won't have a runtime library?  Sharen

No baggins is correct, If i disable internet connectivity wity my firewall software the library disappears.
If I disable the wifi port by disconnect from the network the library does work.  My apologies to the coder when you disable the internet with zone alarm even though the port 127.0.0.1 is in the trusted zone it is disabled.

Quote -  BB My hat's off to you! Wow I couldn't have responded to that with as much calm. 

Hehe - thanks. I've decided that ordinary discourse isn't worth the effort. Sometimes people think I can be unpleasant. They have no idea. As I've said a few times before, if I'm trying to be unpleasant, there will be no doubt about it.

Well, now that I see no more point in trying to deal with this in a civil manner, I figure some serious ridicule is in order.

So, I did some more work on the SR1 Library GUI update. I think it's just about perfect now.

Have a look. This is not photoshop. This is the actual Poser 8 Library GUI as it stands right now.

Quote -  BB My hat's off to you! Wow I couldn't have responded to that with as much calm. 

Gawd, people.. I've asked in numerous threads to those who couldn't see the library IF THEY HAD NORTON or not. No one bothered to reply, yet Norton is KNOWN to cause havoc with a LOT of installations. NOT just Poser. Why anyone would even let that virus program anywhere near their computer is beyond me. There are so many better - and free solutions that does NOT feck up Poser.

And stop taking your problems out on BB! He did a super job with the library and it's not his fault that your computer may be configured in an odd way.

Gawd, I hate Norton...lol. And they have the gall to charge for it ;o). I use AVG free - a darned good AV, no junk, works great, doesn't interfere with anything.

As for bb's library, I suppose no one realizes how much other programmers rely on Visual C, or .NET or even Java these days. It's BEEN done, it IS done. It's the wave of the future. Some may not like it, but that's the way it is. Bagginsbill hasen't done anything that many other programmers do every single day.

Laurie

Tried it and got this message:

can you disable Macaffee and try it again?

Interesting. The website is Poser and it did not deny you access, despite what it says on the display.

Look closely - do you see that McAfee Site Advisor thingy? Looks like you've got your firewall configured to not allow your own computer to talk to itself. Maybe you should click that. I don't know much about McAfee, other than it doesn't do a good job of fighting viruses, but it does seem to interfere with your work.

In the office of my main client (not SM) I told them two weeks ago that my AVG anti-virus detected a virus on my laptop, and it happened after I logged into their network. I reported it to the office IT guy, who argued with me that McAfee was installed on all servers and it was impossible for there to be an infestation in the office, and that I brought it in. LOL. Like I'm that noobish. I insisted he look into it along with CenterBeam, an out-sourced IT maintenance organization. Well, it turns out that all the company servers are infested, and constantly infecting anybody in the office. Except me, of course.

Well, they've been trying to remove the virus now for 5 days. LOL. The director of engineering, who reports to me, was unable to work for the last two days because McAfee now sees the virus but is unable to remove it. LOL. I told him how to do it manually in 90 seconds. He's all set now. Centerbeam still doesn't know how to fix it with McAfee.

I had long ago removed the corporate copy of McAfee on the laptop they provided me and replaced it with AVG. I totally agree with Laurie - AVG works great, does its job, and doesn't interefere with any apps I run.

Mcaffee and norton are useless and often worse than the spyware they are supposed to kill.

use AVG, Avast! and for a firewall Comodo with a 2nd choice of Zonealarm (I'd go with Comodo tho.. it's far better)

Quote - So, I did some more work on the SR1 Library GUI update. I think it's just about perfect now.

:lol: :thumbupboth:

Is the slider for adjusting the icon size ?

Quote - > Quote - So, I did some more work on the SR1 Library GUI update. I think it's just about perfect now.

:lol: :thumbupboth:

Is the slider for adjusting the icon size ?

Why yes it is. It slides from 27 pixels to 203 pixels in increments of 16. The default is 91.

The resizing happens in real time as you move the slider.

I'm having discussion with SM about where to put it. They think it should not be on the screen all the time. (The slider). I think it should, because I think you'll want to constantly change it.

Opinions?

The reason Norton 360 caused problems  with  P8 was not because of of the Virus protection
it was a option turned on called "intrusion detection"  which I guess is some sort of firewall...
filter.    The problem occured because  this version was  written before IE 8 was developed..
Norton for free updated my version to a 2009. and The option worked without faulure.
I don't blame Norton for this they are not mind readers....
The point is that  when MS updated its explorer ,then the supporting  applications had no idea what  compatibility issues would be involved. I am sure that Norton is not the only application that had issues with the new MS 8 explorer..  This makes P8 as hostage to what
ever conflict problems to exist...
I bought Poser to do graphics...as I am sure most user do... I do not need it to do  database and web count management. All that does is gum up the works with another layer of complexity.  ..Now we have dicussions about tcip, urls, cliet,servers .....blah,blah..
I' ll gladly go back to the crude klunky  original Poser library system over a problmistic and un realable system  because of incompatibility issues...Lets spend more time improving the real product  and stop trying to make a swiss army knife out of it.... I love the renders it makes

BB,

The slider is excellent.  But I don't personally think I'll be using it all the time.  Maybe, but I'd think I'd find my personal favorite size and be fine with it like that.

Thanks.

Indi.

I think it's an awesome idea with the slider. It means that in some folders you can have large icons, and in some you can turn it down to small ones. On the fly! Great idea! I'd like it to be present at all times! PLEASE!

(oh and ROFL at the ... addition!)