I've read enough of Poser 8's Reference Manual to feel comfortable getting down to business with the program, and just installed V4 into Poser 8's Runtime to begin experimenting with the controls. Unfortunately, I've already noticed an issue that's going to drive me nuts if I can't fix it.

When I select the Face or Hand camera views, the document window jerks when I use the camera controls to move around, and that's with just the base figure loaded. The effect persists even after I load her morphs.

I've recorded a clip to demonstrate the problem (I tried making the link clickable, but the address was too long for the url field in the message editor.)

http://s709.photobucket.com/albums/ww95/Nyghtfall/Poser/?action=view&current=Poser2009-10-0610-51-21-04.flv

System Specs:

3.0GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
512MB nVidia GeForce 9800 GT (driver v6.14.11.9062 dated 8/17/09)
DirectX 9.0c
4GB RAM
WinXP HE SP3
Poser 8 SR1

Try different preview settings in the Preferences Panel.

 It certainly should be able to handle this without jerking with those specs - they're very close to my own, only I'm running Vista and not XP - and I do not have the same problem,not with just one figure selected.

I'm having a related problem right now though. I have a fairly low rez scene loaded and one figure, and I can barely move anything, even in outline mode. I've been trying to figure out what causes it. It's not even a huge figure, polygon-wise. It does have a lot of (my own) morphs on it though.

Thing is, I can't remember if it was equally bad before SR1...

Quote - Try different preview settings in the Preferences Panel.

I just tried every display style available, and I get the same thing with all of them.

This has always been an annoyance, both in Poser Pro and Poser 8.

With only say Michael 4 in the scene, moving the camera is smooth as silk with some cameras (main, aux, dolly) and very jerky with others (eg posing, face). It seems that Poser is doing something funky with the camera rotation when the pivot isn't the scene's origin...?

Quote - This has always been an annoyance, both in Poser Pro and Poser 8.

Great!..  That's... just... terrific...

:P

Every other 3D app I've used at least gives you the option to rotate around whatever is selected, and does so without slowing down to a crawl.

I hope this gets fixed at some point. Wasn't there a feature request thread somewhere...

Update:

I tried switching the Preview settings from OpenGL to SreeD.  No dice.  Then I tried switching the Accumulation Buffer to Hardware, enabled Hardware Shading and Optimize Simple Materials, and lowered the procedural texture resolution from the default 512 to the minimum 128. I then closed and re-opened Poser 8 and V4.2.

Result: The problem persists.

EDIT:  I just tried using the Face Cam on Andy with the factory default Preview settings and OpenGL for the engine, and it's smooth as silk.  Removed Andy and re-loaded V4, and the problem returned.

(Andy is the blue skeleton that comes with Poser 8 and is seen in all of SM's promo screenshots)

Alright, I'm done with Poser for now.  I just e-mailed SM Tech Support about my problem.  Until we find a solution, I'm going back to what I know best and continue using DAZ.

I just can't work like this...

I got a reply from SM.  Unfortunately, they weren't able to duplicate the problem, so they sent me here:

support.smithmicro.com/cs/smkb.cfg/php.exe/enduser/std_adp.php

Following the suggestions on that page, I tried these steps and just sent them the following report to update my ticket with:

As per the support link you sent me, I tried the following:

• Updated video card driver to v6.14.11.9107 dated 9/27/09

• The nVidia Control Panel does not include OpenGL specific settings, but under Manage 3D settings, I set the following:

Texture filtering - Anisotropic sample option: Off
Texture filtering - Negative LOD bias: Clamp
Texture filtering - Quality: High performance
Texture filtering - Trilinear optimization: Off

• Finally, I edited the Poser.ini and set the following parameter from 1 to 0:

PREVIEW_OGL_HWSHADING_INTRACKING

Result: The problem persists.

I'll post another update once I hear back from them.

SM asked me if I'm able to duplicate the problem by zooming in on the face or hands with the Main or Aux cameras.  This is my reply:

No, I am not able to duplicate the problem by zooming in on the face with the Main or Aux cameras.  However, I did some further testing with all of the camera views, and found that I am able to duplicate the problem with the following cameras, even without zooming in on the face or hands.  I just select one of these, start moving, and the effect is instantly noticeable and very pronounced:

Posing
Shadow Lite 1 Cam
Shadow Lite 2 Cam
Shadow Lite 3 Cam

I tested this on another system with exactly the same result.

When using the Main Camera moving about the scene is silky smooth while with Face Camera it's much slower.

And from what I remember, it has always been like this from Poser 6 onwards with different hardware and OS versions. Unless someone can point to a counterexample, I'd say this is a flaw in Poser rather than any kind of compatibility issue.

SM asked if I'm able to duplicate the problem with other figures, or if it's just effecting V4.  This is my reply:

I just tested the figures below with the same camera views, indicating with a Yes or No if I was able to duplicate the problem with each of them:

M4 Base.......... Yes
Alisha........... Yes
Alisha_LowRes.... No
Alyson........... Yes
Alyson_Casual.... Yes
Alyson_LowRes.... No
Izumi............ Yes
Izumi_LowRes..... No
Maria............ Yes
Maria_LowRes..... No
Diego............ Yes
Diego_LowRes..... No
Marcus........... Yes
Marcus_Low_res... No
Ryan............. Yes
Ryan_Casual...... Yes
Ryan_LowRes...... No
Tomo............. Yes
Tomo_LowRes...... No

SM's latest response:

I think this is just a Display issue, and not anything linked to any specific figure or Camera. You can try changing to Fast Tracking and see if the issue persists. I have an older nVidia Card, and can not duplicate this, but I suspect from the list that it happens on more complex figures.

Let me know if it happens on Fast Tracking, if not, it means it is just a refresh or Display issue (Refresh is having troubles keeping up. If so, there may be some changes to Display settings that may help lessen this issue.

Thanks for the details on the various figures.

My reply:

Fast Tracking fixed the problem, but I'd rather not be relegated to a preview mode that I have no interest in using.

I'd really like to hear from other people. Does someone NOT see a remarkable difference in smoothness when switching between certain cameras (eg Main vs. Face) when using a high poly figure? The problem is also noticeable with the default mannequin (Andy), but much less so than with heavier figures.

The problem can also be seen using SreeD, so to me it seems unlikely that  this is a display issue.

SM's response:

Again, I think this is just a display issue. Basically more data than your Video Card can handle quickly. When you Zoomed in, did you also change the Focal to match the Face Camera? The Cameras are the same, so the issue should be able to be duplicated with the Main Camera.

You can confirm if this is just a display artifact by Rendering out the scene at full quality with Camera Animation. You may be able to remove the issue by increasing the Focal and Zooming out a bit with the various Cameras that are affected.

Let me know your Focal Setting for the affected Cameras and if increasing the Focal and Zooming out helped lessen or remove the artifact of motion.

My reply:

The focal length of the main camera is 55mm.  The focal length of the face cam is 95mm.  I just tried zooming in on V4's face with the main camera and then changed its focal length to 95.

Result: I was not able to duplicate the problem.

I also tried switching to the face cam, and then changed its focal length to 55.

Result: The problem persists.

Unfortunately, I believe we may be reaching an em pass with this issue.

I've shared this discussion with others, and at least two people have related the same problem.  One of them told me that it's been a prevailing issue with every version of Poser since 6, including Poser Pro, and only effects different systems and OS's.  A third person is only able to duplicate the problem when they have a large number of high-resolution figures populating a scene, and at that point camera movement slows to a crawl when they select the same camera views.  Apart from those three, no one else is able to duplicate the problem.

This leads me to believe that there may be some inconsistency with Poser's performance on various PC's with no logical explanation as to why.

SM's response:

It most likely is just a redraw issue and the systems affected are not redrawing every change, so it is not redrawing every position of the Camera. The fact it does not occur in Fast Tracking indicates that the content of the scene is a factor. I suspect that if you work with various display settings the issue would disappear.

My final reply:

Alright, well, thank you for your help.  I appreciate it.

--- End of Incident Report ---

This afternoon, I called SM to arrange for a refund of my purchase.  They approved my request, and I just faxed them the Letter of Destruction they require for processing returns.

 Well, too bad they couldn't resolve it, because I'm having the exact same problem since Poser 5. I was hoping Poser 8 would be free of this issue, but I guess not, 

Sad,,  I have the same thing,  but for me it is not a big issue.  But I suppose if enough people ask for a refund they may pay attention to buyers who are not Computer experts.  ( Like Me )

Well, guess what.  Problem solved.  And the problem was me.

The other night, I visited Pixologic.com and learned about their ZBrush program. While watching a few of their tutorials, I noticed the same jerky motion in their program that I had experienced in Poser 8. I have no idea what specs they were running, but I finally understand that, with 3D apps, you can have a top-of-the-line setup and still have it slow to a crawl depending on the program you're using and how many poly's you're working with. I was just too accustomed to having D|S run flawlessly with any camera, and couldn't grasp why Poser can't deliver equally smooth motion regardless of which camera I look through. I'm guessing that D|S's modular design allows it to create a smaller footprint when loading into RAM.

Anyway, after that revelation, I surfed around to other 3D sites and found myself itching to try Poser again. There's just so much more content and community support for it. After looking up this thread, I realized I hadn't yet tried Poser again since upgrading to Windows 7. So, I crossed my fingers and re-installed Poser 7. I'm very happy to report that, while the jerky motion is still present when using the Face and Hand cams, it's not nearly as pronounced as it was under XP. Unfortunately, 3DConnexion still hasn't released a driver for my Space Navigator to work with Poser 8, but I'm too excited about getting back to modeling to care at this point. Besides, it works beautifully with Poser 7.

I'll be re-purchasing my Poser 8 upgrade license in a few weeks. Meanwhile, it's time to get back to learning Poser 7.

:D

BTW - I still have the invoice I got from Content Paradise, with active links to Poser 8's installer and content. Is re-buying the license simply a matter of re-ordering the upgrade?

I just watched a tutorial on Poser's tracking nodes, and am feeling really stupid right now.  At the beginning of the clip, the narrator opened with:

"Poser can use a little bit of system resources, well, a lot, because it's a 3D application and when you're doing things with fully textured characters and they have hair and they have cloth simulations and all kinds of other things it can slow down your system when you're trying to work with one figure and props, or more than one figure."

During the tutorial, he mentioned:

"Most animators and modelers in other applications also lower the resolution or the tracking of their figures so they can make broad changes."

Near the end of the clip, he closed with:

"Tracking Nodes and the Depth Cueing and Shadows are here to help speed up your workflow.  You really don't want to, if you can help it, have everything showing - the textures, the lighting, the shading, all that stuff - when you're doing poses and this very, very important especially if you have a lot of objects in your scene.  So I highly suggest you go to Box or even Fast Mode when you're working."

So, yeah, definitely going to use those tools when working, and will simply enjoy the fruits of my labor when I render everything as I finish projects.

I just re-bought Poser 8, installed it and all of the content that comes with it, updated to SR3, and updated my video driver.  So far, I've encountered zero problems.  Best of all, it works with my Space Navigator!

Time to have some fun!

:D