**Trying to make a pz2 for a character that has displacement maps. Used QuickMAT and no displacement placed anywhere. Used MatPoseEdit3 and, even though it says it can save for P5, no place to put the displacement maps to make the pose file. So where in the pz2 does the line for displacement maps go and what is the line exactly?

Can anyone help?

btw...I'm not using shader nodes. I just want the displacement map placed same as the bump map and the skin map.
**

Quote - btw...I'm not using shader nodes. I just want the displacement map placed same as the bump map and the skin map.

You can't do displacement without using nodes (the nodeless material information is just what was available in P4/PP).

**nrruddock,

I can place the displacement map on him in Studio and it renders with the displacement map. I can place it on him  in Poser and it renders with it. Why can't I edit the pz2 to read the displacement the same as it does the bump map? If I can place it in the program, then I should be able to save that mat pose with the displacement map on. After all, it saves the texture and bump.

Sorry if I seem to be stubborn about this, but I tried saving him with QuickMAT in Poser and it saved everything correctly except for this part.
**

Quote - **Why can't I edit the pz2 to read the displacement the same as it does the bump map? If I can place it in the program, then I should be able to save that mat pose with the displacement map on. After all, it saves the texture and bump.

Sorry if I seem to be stubborn about this, but I tried saving him with QuickMAT in Poser and it saved everything correctly except for this part.**

Because displacement wasn't in P4/PP, the material information that can be supplied without nodes doesn't include displacement.

The only way to get displacement is to use node based materials, because the only way to specify a displacement map is to have an Image node connected to the Displacement input on a PoserSurface node.
There is no short form like there is for bump maps.

If you're trying to create a partial MAT pose that just adds displacement information, that is known not to work with node based materials, you have to supply the whole material or use a script (i.e. a specific Wacro or ShaderSpider) to add the additional node(s) to an existing material.

**nruddock,

You know you just burst my bubble, don't you? LOL

I thought it would a simple solution, but it seems if I want these to work in both Studio and Poser with the displacement, then I must edit the node in for the displacement (drat that QuickMAT, it won't give any other option than P4/PP) and also save them in Studio as .ds files. Maybe I'll release separate ones for each.**

Thanks for the help and for having patience with this stubborn one.

In Poser there are map entries in the base parameters of the material

        textureMap ":Runtime:textures:G2:SimonG2:SimonCasualClothes:MTshirt2TEX.jpg"
                 0 0
        bumpMap NO_MAP
        reflectionMap NO_MAP
        transparencyMap NO_MAP
        ReflectionColor 1 1 1 1

then there are the shader tree for the nodes.

texture map is duplicated in the tree, as are bump maps

Displacement isnt in the base parameters because it was added after the shader tree.

Daz studio is a different implementation.

The easy way to make a mat pose if you have Poser  6 or up is to save an mt5 or mt6 file in the material room and edit it.
That gets you all the shader tree. 

**Thanks Mark. I'm also hoping I can check someone else's file that uses displacement to find out exactly where it goes and edit them by hand. I'm not looking forward to redoing them as mt files.

Why didn't Poser do this one up right and make displacement as a base entry? Not really expecting an answer. Just wishful thinking. grin
**

And even bump is not bump. The Poser surface node is having two bumps, the one for Firefly and the other "old" bump now called gradient bump from P4/PP times.

and as far as I know the bump map from headlines is duplicated into that gradient bump channel and this is not the way firefly is loving.

Quote - And even bump is not bump. The Poser surface node is having two bumps, the one for Firefly and the other "old" bump now called gradient bump from P4/PP times.

and as far as I know the bump map from headlines is duplicated into that gradient bump channel and this is not the way firefly is loving.

**
Is that why I had to move it from the "gradient bump" to where I wanted it?

Okay...new question. Anyone know if QuickMAT got updated to include P5 or up mats?**

Forget QuickMAT. You want to make materials for Poser quickly, with simple one-line scripts? Learn matmatic.

(Sorry: I am drunk today. You peopel struggling with simple stuff make me laugh. Learn to use matmatic and every Poser material becomes simple. Even materials with 800 nodes are simple. Get over it.)

Quote - Forget QuickMAT. You want to make materials for Poser quickly, with simple one-line scripts? Learn matmatic.

(Sorry: I am drunk today. You peopel struggling with simple stuff make me laugh. Learn to use matmatic and every Poser material becomes simple. Even materials with 800 nodes are simple. Get over it.)

Real helpful there, BB. Learning a program is not a simple thing to those who don't know it. I realize it is to you. After all, you are the Poser material guru. But guess what. Some of us are just learning and the answers aren't always right under our noses.

So what's matmatic?

oooh - Unicornst - you are very interactive today.

OK - listen - I lost a tooth today and have to drink like a madman to cover the pain.

I will talk more tomorrow, when I am more coherrent.

Matmatic is my tool to let you type math formulas and make Poser shaders from them. Has been freely availbable since 2006 but only nerds care. People who want high-quality shaders should care more. High quality shaders usually require more than simple formulas, which often means more than 20 nodes. I easily make shaders with 800 nodes in them, using matmatic.

**Yea, very unlike me to be so active here. grin

Sorry for the pain you're in, BB.** **Hopefully tomorrow will see it all gone. Without a hangover. smiles

Matmatic sounds like something to learn. I might pick it up and give it a go. Right now, I'm kind of behind schedule with the one I'm working on and just wanted a way to place that displacement map. Poser nor Studio can make it easy. They had to go and hide that in the nodes instead of the base.

I do look forward to seeing what you can tell me tomorrow.

**

OT - BB - use clove oil for sore gums - works like a charm in reducing pain and healing.  After you get over the initial stinging pain.

**
Is that why I had to move it from the "gradient bump" to where I wanted it?

Okay...new question. Anyone know if QuickMAT got updated to include P5 or up mats?**

Have you updated with the latest patch?  I've used QuickMAT for a few years and it saves P5 files with no trouble. :)

Here's the link to the forum for QuickMAT:
http://www.hogsoft.com/content/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=15

Quote - Thanks Mark. I'm also hoping I can check someone else's file that uses displacement to find out exactly where it goes and edit them by hand. I'm not looking forward to redoing them as mt files.**

Why didn't Poser do this one up right and make displacement as a base entry? Not really expecting an answer. Just wishful thinking. grin
**

I imagine that the base entries were keep to allow legacy support of Poser 4. However I find it easy to save the materials setting as a Materials collection, .MC6 (Poser6+) as markschum recommended and then make it into a MAT pose by changing the files extension to pz2 and the opening up the file in a text or Poser file editor and changing “mtlCollection” to “figure” (you’ll find it near the beginning of the file)

**DreamerZ_Loft...... I didn't know there was an update. Thank you so much for the link.

chriscox....I've tried doing as you suggested and for some reason, it never works out that well for me. If the update doesn't work and this new one I got called Poser MAT Exporter doesn't work, then I'll give your solution another try.
**

Quote - Matmatic is my tool to let you type math formulas and make Poser shaders from them. Has been freely available since 2006 but only nerds care.

Awwww, geee... that's the nicest thing anyone's called me all week! (nerd) Oh, and yes, I do care. Care about your pain, too, Bill. Are you allergic to codeine? Didn't your orthodontist/dentist provide you with a script for anything? If not, how rude! (not to mention cruel)

I guess me trying to sort out how to write a sorted list in Parmatic of PM: nodes might qualify me as a nerd... I'm breaking down the code brick by brick until I understand it and then will insert that functionality. I've got from Wednesday off, and one of my goals is to get that understood and written!

Wish me luck. :)

just to say....

no, you can't just use interchange Poser and D|S displacement and bump settings.  0 for Poser is actually 0 luminance, which makes sense from a mathematic perspective.  0 for D|S is 50% grey (or 128, 128, 128), which makes sense from a human eye perspective (breaking things into light and shadow, high and low).   you can  use a math node in Poser to get the same response (subtract .5 from your map).

I ended doing the mats as .m6.  The update to QuickMAt wouldn't work, PFE was horrible to try to figure out the settings...m6 files turned out to be the easiest and fastest way to save over 40 mat poses. Thanks for trying to help.

Re: sorting dials in some sort of order... order of appearance in a Matmatic script unfortunately has nil effect on the parameter dials order in the Parameter Dials Window.

I think I might have zeroed in on where one might be able to insert a sort function. In the parmaticUpdater.py script, under the ParmaticLearnParameters(actor) function, if I understand this correctly, I'm guessing this an empty dictionary being defined:
params =

which gets populated here (after a lot of checking and validation):
    for name, value in params.iteritems():
        createParameter(actor, name, value)

Sort function could go right before this, maybe? Like params.sort()???

I saw something like this in an example in a tute on Python. I'm trying to figure out how these sorts of properties (like .sort() and .iteritems() ) are suddenly assigned (like almost dynamically) to a dictonary object.

Anyway, a sort of names would possible give a bit of control over the name lineup, making it easier for users to find a dial.

Maybe new versions of Poser are different, but I gave up on parameter order because Poser doesn't even guarantee to show them in the order you created them.

The only reliable ordering came from writing them into a pose file in a particular order. This is also the only way to group them. I think I mentioned this - it is what I did for the Apollo UCFS.

Yes, you did, Bill... unfortunately, my pz2 files (those created by Parmatic) don't seem to load properly into the figure (I think I mentioned this in another thread). That's kinda why I was looking in this direction.
I'll have another go and let you know how I go. I might try running P-Updater at the outset (puts the group Other in place) and then load the ordered list from the pz2.

But, on the .sort() thingie, would that have been the right approach IF sorting it works? I've been poring over the documentation for Dict, but dictionary methods do not seem to include this one.