Well, I won't be entering the lens reflection contest, so I am telling ya'll what I fricking want from you, my oh so petty slaves of the underworld... Anyways, I just want you guys to think mega big on this one. I want everyone to be able to enter in the advanced category. RJH's image on the last contest I would've voted for if it was in the advanced, but he was in the beginner. Anyways, I just want everyone to "think ouside of the box," meaning the obvious. If you see a reflection on a TV, big woop, they're always there. If you see a reflection in the oddest of places, like Alpha's masive set of spider webs, shoot the fawker. Believe it or not, there's a place in my school, outdoors, where the cement wall carries a reflection of water when it rains. The reflection happens when the sun is in a certain area of the sky, with water on the ground. The sun some how bounces the image of the water, onto the cement wall, and if there's wind, that fricking wall TRIPS me out. Now that would make for one odd mofo reflection. Also, don't forget to take into account the image as a whole. Just because I take a picture of that visual anomally of a cement refflection, doesn't make it a good picture. RJH's pic last month was a simple candle, but the way he designed the shot was incredible. I'm just being a ho, but I want everyone to rawk out. anyways, good luck. Ry

But is the reflection clear. I think that will be the tale tale factor. Which is my bigest problem. So I think I will wimp out and not do anyting too interesting just because it probably won't make for the clearest picture. Bsteph

Who said the reflection has to be clear? Some of the best pictures I've ever seen are COMPLETELY out of focus. I just want everyone to put forth their best art is all, not to pst a picture of a lamp reflection in a tv. Anyone can have a reflection clear and in focus Steph, it takes a good eye to spot art though. ry

Technically, the image you are capturing, on film or ccd, IS a reflection. If there were no reflected light rays, there would be no photography of any kind. What does this have to do with anything? I don't know. Just some random thought passing through the vacancy of my noggin. I think I've got my "reflection" shots. I've got this cool one of a lamp reflecting off my tv screen.........

I think the theme reflections is so.....done. I don't want to do what's been done a zillion times before..and yeah like slynky says we have to look for something really unusual...but if something has been done so much that you have try really really really hard to be orignial...I think I'll just leave it. I have a couple of reflection-pics in my gallery, but I don't think I'll be doing many more unless I can think of something really unique :P

Blah blah blah... This is to hard... This is to easy... This is to ordinary... I can't shoot cuz I'd have to borrow a camera... What a bunch of *%#! I would love to see what everybody would say if the art director for (pick your favorite) magazine, or (pick your favorite) Recording company came to you and said I need a shot that is based on a reflection. The shot is worth $5000.00 US currency. And I want it in three days. I can hear it now... "Gee Mr. Art Director dude that is just to hard... or that is just to overdone, or I am not sure if I can do that". Art Director Answers "Fine we'll get somebody else, BTW don't bother calling me again." Sorry if I sound a little terse here, but in the real world, that's the way it is. I am also sorry if this offends anyone. I do realize that a lot of people here are amature photographers who just do it for the fun, and I appreciate that. But I also know that some of you are very talented, have the potential to become a pro if you so desire. However sitting around and making up excuses is not going to get anyone anywhere. Except maybe onto the welfare rolls. Just my 2 cents for whatever it's worth.

I post no excuse. I just like being difficult.

Interesting thoughts Alpha. Yes, you are correct that is the real world. However, in this case it is also a contest. Which although, it is artificial also means that we should place our best foot forward. Here is our problem as I and you and Marsh and Slink and Jordy and Picnic and RJH and Bill and Slaanash and Stars ect ( please forgive me if you arn't mentioned ) can empathize. There are roughly 12 of us entering a contest. We all have varying degrees of skill, equipment, tastes, and time. However as a method to hone our skills we each are trying to make the BEST reflection contest picture. Obviously the picture should be clear. ( What's the point of a reflection if it's unclear! ) While it can be fun to make blurry pictures it's probably best not to start experimenting during a contest. IMHO. Also while we're making reflection pictures. It's nice not to see the camera person and it better be interesting!! Ahhh. It's getting tough now! Simple stuff won't cut it!!! Unfortunately that probably makes for the best reflections. Very cutting edge stuff probably won't either. ( I mean really, would a picture of a laser bouncing around inside of a IR analytical instrument be a winner? ) Whacky stuff won't be understood. ( No matter how much I liken a tinnis(sp) ball to a photon and bounce it off of walls photograph it and enter it as my theoretical reflection picture. I will probaly just increase my reputation as a ...somthing or other ) However we are trying to enter something noteworthy. Naturally it is frustrating and unfortunate. =:-( > I have no idea what kind of equipment you own. But I'll bet if I had half of it. I would take better pictures! No I'm not complaining. I'm just stating a fact. Slinky has no digital camera and perhaps no consitent SLR either. Of course he's bummed. There is this contest and he want's to participate but doesen't have the goods-literally! I realize you are trying to encourage many of us not to quit; but to enter and enjoy which I agree with!! But at the same time. Calling people who don't live near a pool, own swim trunks, or are just beginning to swim whimps because they arn't in the water is a little unfair. Bsteph

I don't own a camera. I don't have access to darkroom facilities. If I had the moeny to go around, I'd have them. I can't enter a contest becuase I don't have a camera, and while I can borrow one whenever I want, and develop neegatives by paying for them, I prefer to print my own pictures, as many photographers do. I would like to enter the contest, I haven't had the pleasure of doing so yet, so bsteph is sort of right when she guesses that I am bummed. Then again, it's no gigantic loss, and I won't lose any sleep over it. As for making up excuses, fine, ya, I'm the first person to admit, "I DONT OWN A CAMERA, SO THAT'S MY FUKKING EXCUSE." Sorry if it pisses you off alpha. As for welfare rolls, you speak a lot of truth without likely knowing it. So far, I don't recall bitching too much. I said "I won't be entering the contest." Sure, a bunch of you know I won't be entering because I don't own a camera, and cannot afford one yet, but did I complain? NO. All I was basically trying to do was to get everyone to put forth their best effort. So, in order to counteract your rash/uncalled for/ignorant statements, I'd like to tell you that I've spent the last day and a half (started last night) working on a pinhole camera. Making it out of a cracker box. I can't afford a camera, but I'll soon have one. Then I'll make another one, and then another. In this thread, I've said I won't be entering, and Marsh thikns the idea is overdone. Big deal. One is a fact, the second isan opinion. Your opinion, alpha, seems to be that I complain too much. This is all quite new to me. If I have the potential to become pro, which I might give a shot depending on what I narrow my choices down to for University, then I'll give it my best shot. In the mean time, enter the spider web, and win your own prize, because it's a damn wicked shot, and even though I'm only SLIGHTLY po'd at you, it'll still likely get my and many other people's votes. ry

There are many things in life that are unfair And I can only hope that this is as unfair as it gets for any of us. However, as unfair as my statements may seem they are only my words and they can be interpreted in a variety of ways. I realize that today I have equipment that is beyond what others are using. In fact, I am sure that I have single lenses that are worth more than most peoples entire collection of gear, but that is not the issue. Some of my best work (images that are still in my portfolio) was shot with a used Olympus OM1 and a 50MM stock lens that I bought for less than $100.00. And I am sure that if you or anyone else had just one of my camera bodies and lenses that you could turn out great work if you wanted to. The key phrase being if you wanted to. If the desire doesnt exist then all the gear in the world isnt going to make a difference. And that is what it all comes down to. I am a firm believer in the old adage that where there is a will, there is a way. So despite the adversity present in some of our lives, it is up to each of us to find a way to make something work, or accept the fact that we really didnt want it. While I was re-educating myself, I was living in poverty, going through a divorce and custody battle, having an operation to relieve the pain of a pinched nerve and going through physical therapy. I was also battling severe depression for which I was institutionalized, went through ECT, received counseling and was on medication for. This period of my life lasted almost 5 years. During that same time frame, I went through a three-month period where I was also homeless. (The Salvation Army provided the food I ate and the place I slept.) I do not need to go into all the details, but through out it all I managed to attend classes, get my work done, and maintain a 3.95 average. I also managed to be a father to my children and eventually won custody of them. It would have been very easy to say this is just to hard, or I dont have what it takes. During that same period, I forced myself to keep shooting. I even submitted one of my shots into the Kodak KINSA contest and it made it to the international finals. It didnt win, but getting that far was enough to let me know I was doing what I needed to do. The bottom line here, is that I am no stranger to adversity. I know that there are times when things are not the way we want them to be. I also know that as human beings we are capable of rationalizing anything we want to. Like I said before I am sorry if my comments offended anyone. I realize that this is just a simple contest that in the greater scope of things probably means very little. I guess what really bothers me is when I see people whose talent I respect give up so easily. BTW I did not call anyone a wimp. That was your choice of terminology.

I think the key is motivation. If someone offered me a billion bucks to take a picture of a toilet seat of course I would..I'd be motivated to do it. But I just can't find motivation to take photos for a competition, sorry. You all say it's just a fun thing, but for me competing is never FUN. In my reality I am pretty much forced to be the best at everything I do, and I would like this place to be an escape from all that, where I'm allowed to make mistakes. If I do something badly, for whatever reason, I punish myself for it somehow. It is the way I have been brought up. I don't want to feel like I have to be the best here. Because I really enjoy photography and I don't want to ruin it by my own ambitions. Call me a wimp all you want.

First of all as the originator of the idea of these monthlies, let me say this: They were not designed to push anyone into a "competition" mode, but to encourage us to view the world a certain way and try to capture that on camera. I had gone on a sunday shoot and saw so many many possibilities for the oddest things, and thought we could all learn this way. These monthly competitions are not about being the best here, because often times what one likes another does not as is evidenced by voting. Alpha, I enjoyed your courage in your post. It takes guts to spell it out exactly as it is. Raw, hard, unflinching, and true. Reminds me to keep in mind an old proverb or thought about "never judge a man till you walk a mile in his shoes". I applaud your singlemindedness that in the face of adversity, you kept hold of one thought and carried it through. With what was going on in your life, this would be extremely difficult to do, and you did it, you walked out the other side, and this is not an easy thing to accomplish. I know. Slynky in all honesty, I think its fantastic you are working on a pinhole camera, I've seen people here get amazing results from them, and find that creativity, and desire and end results are astonishing. However, I feel it would be detrimental entirely to this forum to end those monthly contests because for a handful of you that cant stand the thought, there are a handful of others that are learning, and love it. As far as the category goes, I've never done reflections except for eyes, and it was one that was put up for suggestion, and nobody said otherwise. I am saying think in terms of group. This is a forum, as a whole, perhaps there are people here who are not as familiar with doing something that others have done a thousand times. If you know something through and through and you are tired of the subject, know that there a hundred others who don't and want to learn about it. Perhaps you could share your knowledge of such a subject and help another along to achieve that knowledge and get to another point in their efforts. Photographic subjects are endless, but we are thinking of moving along as a whole. So we always have to remember that not everyone is at the same point. These are just my thoughts for what they are worth. Syyd

Syyd, and everyone, I would like to reiterate, that I never said anything bad about the contests, nor asked for them to stop, nor saaid I hate the contests, etc. I just said :I wont be entering this month." I dunno If I'm being confused with someone else, but relax a bit people.

I don't think there is anyting wrong with the contests either. But..what is the point of a contest, if it isn't competition? If it was not about declaring a winner, it wouldn't be a contest in the first place. It is probably difficult for most of you to see my point of view on this and think I am exaggerating the whole thing. I have been told oh so many times that it is just friendly fun. Well you know my view on it and I have my own very personal reasons for not entering. I don't know if it will be fair of me to vote either.

My God, what is happening to this forum? A few weeks ago we were all taking pictures, posting pictures, doing competitions and generally having fun - is that the REFLECTION given by this thread? (Sorry for the pun!) Come on, stop the snapping at each others heels! If people don't want to enter the competition - fine! No harm done! If some people are better than others - fine! Enter in the category that suits you!! BEGINNER, INTERMEDIATE or EXPERT!!! If the subject doesn't suit you - fine, suggest one, or lets have a monthly thread to vote properly and decide one democratically, or just don't enter that one. I'm one of the people who Alpha refers to as wanting to learn from the competitions - hell, I do my best with what I've got (and heaven knows, I get SO naffed off at not being able to zoom in on things coz I can't afford a digi with zoom or can't afford a studio or don't know what an f-stop is etc etc etc etc) but admit when pictures are better than mine - and not always because of the equipment, coz that's useless without the ideas of how to use it creatively. That's why they win, yeah? Just coz I haven't won doesn't mean I'm packing my camera away!! It may sound trite, but it IS the taking part that matters, not the winning. WHEN I STARTED HERE I LOVED THIS FORUM - IT WAS ABOUT HAVING FUN AND LEARNING TOGETHER. NOW LETS GET BACK TO IT, PLEASE.

Some people are put off by competitions/contests. Call it a challenge--that is really what it is anyhow. Challenges should push you a bit, help you to learn. Look at it in that light. We might also consider that some of us will try hard in one that pushes a button for us and not in another. Right now my interest is greatly stimulated by B/W and that's what is motivating me--but probably few others S.

Uhm... I don't really think there is anything hostile about this thread, JordyArt, and I don't think there's anything wrong with people getting a bit more personal either. I haven't felt that any of this has been 'snapping at eachother's heels', what would a forum be if we didn't have discussions? :-) I guess it's a conflict of interest, some people just want to take photos and talk about photography period, whereas others would like to know more about the people behind this forum. And that's hard to do while keeping things topical. Anyway geez I'm sorry if anybody thinks I'm exaggerating, or being a brat, or whining, or trying to upset people, I never mean to do that. Just please respect that I don't want to enter the competitions because I have enough competition in my life already, it is not because I'm a chicken. I really didn't think it would be such a big deal...and that doesn't just go for me, but for slynky too. It shouldn't be a biggie but I must admit I'm one of the people who have been blowing it out of proportion. Everybody friends now?

and offers hand eto everyone else. ry