Please no knock on the vendors but I have to ask what is considered a mature woman in the poser world? I see this for some characters but I have to say they don't look very mature to me. Some look as if they are in, at best, maybe their early 30's is that considered mature?????

I have only seen a small handful of characters I'd consider "mature" and I have those characters.
For me mature is 40+ and it's a darn shame that there are so few of them in the sea of late teens, 20 something Barbie dolls or the horror of redundancy! So again I ask what is considered mature cuz maybe I ain't getting it. LOL!

Well, to be honest, it may be because of the level of difficulty it takes to create a mature texture.  I've tried, and failed miserably.  So, to those that have managed, kudos :)

True, true but for some of auld farts that don't have a hang up about women our own age it would be nice to see some more mature characters hehehehehehe.

But of course when I was 20 something I thought old people were boring too LOL!!!

But not to sound like I am pushing a product but Fenrissa has a very lovely older character for V4. Nuff said....

Oh, absolutely :)  She's on my wishlist for my next splurge ;)  I just bought Alice finally (the faerie morph sold me ;) ), lol, so I have NO cash for me right now ;)

Mature means older than the vendor. For some of my favorite vendors, this basically means anyone with a high-school diploma. (OK, they aren;'t that young, but they were worn after I graduated college.)

It's not just the texture.  The main problem I see with "mature" characters who aren't is the facial features.

The ears and nose continue growing throughout life: while the ears you can get away with, a female character in their late 30s and on is not going to have a cute little nose but a larger one, and it gets bigger with age.  The eyes shouldn't be so large in the face.  The facial features and head shape shouldn't (except in some cases) be so smooth and rounded.

In terms of bump or displacement, lines at the corners of the eyes and around the mouth.

It actually doesn't take that much.  I'm at work right now and can't whip out a render, but I have one character who uses a plain female texture map (nothing in it specifically meant for a "mature" character") who looks older than a typical poser female because she's got a prominent nose, a hint of wrinkles around the eyes, smaller eyes, and defined creases at the corners of her mouth.  That's it.  My main problem with her, in fact, has been dialing back the apparent age.

Quote - Oh, absolutely :)  She's on my wishlist for my next splurge ;)  I just bought Alice finally (the faerie morph sold me ;) ), lol, so I have NO cash for me right now ;)

I have Fenrissa's character and she is worth every penny Jen. You'll like Alice too I had her already and got the update yesterday but haven't had the time to play with her yet.

Where is the fenrissa character available?

Can you give the character's name?

Klebnor

Have you notice that all the "Hottest" Hollywood celebrities these days are in their forties or older? The younger actress ar around but they are not getting the magazine covers.

Quote - Where is the fenrissa character available?

Can you give the character's name?

Klebnor

PM sent

Can you let me know where Frenrissa's character is as well?

Thanks.

nabob21

You may like to meet Gladys Emmanuel

Be warned, you will be frisked for weapons at the door.
If it is found that you do not have any, one will be issued to you :)

Top link is the free one.
Click here for the full figure.

BluEcho has some mature (older) characters. The texture is all encompassing so that you have the usual skin imperfections and "wrinkles" all over the body and not just the face.

http://digitaldesignsunlimited.com/Market/index.php?act=viewAff&affId=55

I absolutely adore KymJ's mature characters.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=KymJ

Attached Link: MaryAnn

Here she is.  She's got a version for V3, too, if you're not a V4 fan. 

 3D Celebrity Lola I think is a success. Out of that series it is the clearest of what real person they have copied which could be considered a success or not. While it is a really good texture set it also continually drags my imagination back to the RL actress.

Quote - > Quote - Where is the fenrissa character available?

Can you give the character's name?

Klebnor

Here she is.  She's got a version for V3, too, if you're not a V4 fan. 

Thanks Jen for posting the link as I was unclear if I could. LOL it's has stopped the PM's to me...hahahahah. Actually I didn't mind the pm's I was glad to help.

Quote - Have you notice that all the "Hottest" Hollywood celebrities these days are in their forties or older? The younger actress are around but they are not getting the magazine covers.

It's been suggested that the Boomers and Gen X are finally getting over adolescence...

But seriously, I think it's because they've realized that audiences are not being turned off movies just because the lead actress isn't a 20 year old model with the best enhancements money can buy.  As an example, I doubt few people refused to see The Dark Knight just because Maggie Gyllenhall is significantly more mature looking than Katie Holmes.

I tend to prefer movies with a more seasoned actress in the lead.

They, unlike many of these younger actors in movies nowadays, (Paris Hilton & Ashton Kutcher come to mind here) can actually, oh my God dare I say it?  "act".

Quote -  3D Celebrity Lola I think is a success. Out of that series it is the clearest of what real person they have copied which could be considered a success or not. While it is a really good texture set it also continually drags my imagination back to the RL actress.

Which celebrity does she look like. It is a very nice character.

Quote - > Quote -  3D Celebrity Lola I think is a success. Out of that series it is the clearest of what real person they have copied which could be considered a success or not. While it is a really good texture set it also continually drags my imagination back to the RL actress.

Which celebrity does she look like. It is a very nice character.

Judi Dench

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judi_Dench

Wow! That is a good likeness.

imho, the problem areas with older characters are:

• thicker skin.  as people get older, their skin thickens.  this means noticeable translucent edges to skin and increased dermal (not subdermal) scattering. the lack of translucency is what makes the really old textures look odd, even if they have displacement.  i'm  not sure what to do about this.
• thicker eyelids.  V4's eyes often look swollen to me because the edges of her eyelids are so thin.  imho, this means for realistic characters over the age of 10 or maybe even 5, you have to obscure the edge with makeup (ex: Maelwenn's and Rebelmommy's textures), buy textures that have burned in shadow and specular that create the impression of a nicely plumped eyelid (ex: Shahara's textures), or manage to edit her eyelid.  M4's eyelids just seem plain strange.  the Unimesh line is good for up to about 40 or maybe 50, but after that, i think they should be a little thicker. 
• all over wrinkles.  most older figures have wrinkles on their face and a droopy build, but no large scale wrinkles anywhere else.  the neck and hands especially show aging.  most older characters are notablefor their young necks, shoulders and hands.
• drooping in more than the breasts.  triceps, flesh on the back and belly, and other places need drooping, too.  though, since this is a gravitational effect, i'm not entirely sure a single morph would do.
• knobby joints. elbows, hands, knees, wrists, ankles, feet and toes should all get morphed, and few people bother.  especially with the hands.  even stars ages often show in their hands.

all of those are hard to deal with.  the first may be impossible to address in Poser or D|S.   and since older characters don't seem to sell well, i'm sure the work seems less rewarding.   

Yeah wouldn't want any not to sell well just look at all the redundant, add-ons and repackages things just selling like hot cakes now. But that's okay the more things lag in any creativity the less I buy and I have a feeling that soon I will by nothing. Heaven knows I wouldn't want to stand in the way of the corporate mantra.

In case anyone cares Noggin over at Daz has a nice character called "Mollie" who is a fully morphed older character. A little older that what I was speaking of but never the less still done very well.  Yes, I sound a tad bit irritated some of do get tired of hearing "it can't be done" or " It's not worth it" some of us don't buy anything and everything so sorry to say. Now the rest of you can do as you will with this thread I'm done.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Where is the fenrissa character available?

Can you give the character's name?

Klebnor

Here she is.  She's got a version for V3, too, if you're not a V4 fan. 

Thanks Jen for posting the link as I was unclear if I could. LOL it's has stopped the PM's to me...hahahahah. Actually I didn't mind the pm's I was glad to help.

YW ;)  Links are, and always have been, ok ;)

Once you find true mature ladies, then comes the task of finding clothes for them. I don't know how quick grandma is going to be to grab up that sword and dash off to the temple. Or even don the metal bras and spiked thongs that seem to fill the market place.

grannie might feel comfy in a muu-muu, housecoat or burqa, depending upon the
scene context.  assuming anybody makes those.  no, wait - ISTR ricardo made a
poser burqa, but I forgot his surname (member name) here.  I recall discussing the
falklands  with him recently.  no, I was wrong - it was trekkie who did
the burqa, about halfway down her page there.

Keith the facial features don't always get big on older folks. My nose and ears are the same size they've always been, my mom's nose which was a different shape did get a little larger but not her ears. I've seen that happen more in men, and mainly in those who practiced some type of excess, food or alcohol usually. Look at pics of Paul Newman, young and old, and you'll see what I mean. You shouldn't make such blanket statements. I've worked with many vets and have seen the pics of them when they were young and don't see changes you're talking about.

And as far as clothing, my mother-in-law only wears dresses to church or out to dinner, she is typically in jeans as she has a huge garden and works all year in her greenhouse. She is normally wearing jeans and a shirt. I will be 55 in January and have never worn a mau mau or a housecoat in my life. You are talking about lifestyles from different ages. Most older women don't wear that stuff anymore. Oh and my mother-in-law just turned 90 in October. Go out on the net and do some research and I think you'll be surprised. Of course I'm just talking US, could be different in other countries.  8^)

Quote - Once you find true mature ladies, then comes the task of finding clothes for them. I don't know how quick grandma is going to be to grab up that sword and dash off to the temple. Or even don the metal bras and spiked thongs that seem to fill the market place.

Well, In a new D&D 4th edition game starting up in a few months my character will be an Infernal Pact Warlock who decided to resume adventuring after about thirty years once her eldest son was old enough to take over the family tavern (and also to get out of babysitting grandkids.) I'm thinking of having her wear the Magus outfit over at DAZ or some-such when I get around to rendering her.

(One thing I really like about 4th edition is that they got rid of the aging tables -- there is no reason not to have an older character if it makes sense.)

Quote - I don't know how quick grandma is going to be to grab up that sword and dash off to the temple. Or even don the metal bras and spiked thongs that seem to fill the market place.

You're right about that! This NVIATWAS doesn't look at all impressed

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1303669

Quote - You may like to meet Gladys Emmanuel

Be warned, you will be frisked for weapons at the door.
If it is found that you do not have any, one will be issued to you :)

Top link is the free one.
Click here for the full figure.

Oh my. Now that is downright scary.....

 Gladys Emmanuel disappeared. Does anyone know where I can find her now?

Quote -  Gladys Emmanuel disappeared. Does anyone know where I can find her now?

Free version here:

www.philc.net/freestuff.php 

Unarmed version in his store...

 Thanks... I hadn't scrolled down far enough. blush

Not read the whole of the thread but I am gonna throw it back anyhow.  One time, Mature meant anyone over the age of majority.  Now, with the endless sexual slant (gee thanks Mr Porno Site Owner) mature means anyone over 50.  Which makes me mature.  Weeeee.

And I say, Bullsh*t

Mature means - to me - anyone who doesn't cry and blame someone else when they fuck up.  It means my 3 month old son for wanting to sit up and watch darts on TV when he can't even crawl.  Mature is nothing to do with anythng other than your own interpretation.

And I don't usually wear dresses to church.  Actually, I don't go to church.   But that's my problem.  Or not.  :biggrin: 

 Wow, she's great... scary, but great! 

Quote -  Now, with the endless sexual slant (gee thanks Mr Porno Site Owner)... 

I almost missed that, was busy staring at all the banners on this page that are closeups of crotches, closeups of nipples, etc.  Great point, those damn porno site owners are ruining our nice clean perceptions!

Quote - [I almost missed that, was busy staring at all the banners on this page that are closeups of crotches, closeups of nipples, etc.  Great point, those damn porno site owners are ruining our nice clean perceptions!

Gee, you're lucky-I got a picture of a desolate mountain, and one of the Terminator... :lol:

Hmm, trade ya.

Great example Apple_UK.

What i'v been saying for months now;
A mesh is nothing more then a wire to hang a good texture on.

Quote -
A mesh is nothing more then a wire to hang a good texture on.

This I think is far from the truth, depending on the lighting conditions of the render.

If your model is only ever going to be lit very brightly with little or no directional illumination, you can probably get away with doing nothing with the underlying mesh shapes and rely upon the diffuse texture.
But IMO in all other lighting states the lack of a good morph will, to a greater or lesser extent, break down the illusion that the diffuse texture alone gives.
With Apple_UK's example, try lighting the unmorphed figure with a single spot and from one side - the diffuse texture on it's own will struggle to carry the illusion of an older character (unless there is also a displacement map at work).

Basically that technique is OK for mid shots and if realism is not a high priority.

I was perusing some mug shots the other day, and came across one of former Enron CEO Ken Lay:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/1230091cel7.html

Notice the loss of fat from the jawline which can't be duplicated with a texture...

Quote - Have you notice that all the "Hottest" Hollywood celebrities these days are in their forties or older? The younger actress ar around but they are not getting the magazine covers.

The older chicks have all the connections so they are still getting jobs.    The older chicks are also proven materials and not something you are taking a gamble on.

Popularity hot doesn't equal attractiveness hot.  If you want an industry where younger more attractive females get more jobs look at porn...  I mean the statistics and not the smut.

There is an immense difference between who is charismatic in a photo - which is lots and lots of people - and who is charismatic in motion and acting.  Cindy Crawford is a perfect example - hard to take your eyes off her in a photo, but when she's on film, blah.  Angelina Jolie's early career was the same (see one of her first films Cyborg 2 and tell me she's interesting to watch), although she grew into a pretty charismatic personality.

I have to disagree on the preceding post still giving the illusion of age, as the facial structure is too "firm".  Things start to sag as you get older,

I speak from experience. :-P  Neck jowls, crow's feet, smile lines, nose gets bigger, all the little details that you can't get away with only in a texture, most especially when the light hits it.

In this sequence of three renders I've used the same diffuse texture and shader setup each time.

• The first shows the character lit fairly brightly and evenly - the diffuse texture does quite a good job at disguising the underlying young default Apollo morph.
• For the middle one I changed the lighing only - one bright side spotlight and one rimlight (shining from behind). - now that there's a more definite play of light and shadow the underlying young default Apollo morph seems more apparent.
• In the last one I kept the lighting of the previous render but applied a full age morph plus some displacement to bring all the folds and wrinkles to life - this completely changes things.

Whatever the MP or culture in general decides 'mature' to be, for older characters I think you have to be aware of the interaction between lights, mesh and textures - all three together. Ignore one of these aspects and the illusion starts to break down.

Apple_UK - are you saying that there are no morphs or displacement employed at all with your character? It's just a default figure (Is that Jessie?) with a diffuse texture of an older woman?