We've got a lot of excellent talent in the Marketplace, some of the best in Poserdom, but I just have to say that occasionally a product pops up  that is so horrendously bad that it is embarrassing.

I'm talking about products that look like they were modeled and textured in 1992 or earlier.

I have to wonder how such a product passed though the approval process, and how anyone in their right mind would think that someone would be interested in actually purchasing it.

I know one persons trash is another person treasure, but sometimes garbage is just garbage.

(I'm zipped up. Flame on!)

Well now I have to go look?  Sharen

I'd love to know myself....... but I'm just Evil :D

Quote - Well now I have to go look?  Sharen

 None in Your store Sharen...

LOL what products are you refering to? Sometimes a very simple mesh becomes awesome with the addition of outstanding textures.

some of the stuff here is a joke.
but there is some very good stuff to.
BTW if you named anything this would get locked or binned, so that may not be a good idea.
unless that is want you want

No didn't want that. I just didn't see anything that was all that bad. but I didn't go past the first couple of pages.

well, I guess it boils down to what sells, and what doesn't.

I suppose the store testing is really for technical stuff and not artistic niceness. The ultimate test of any product is how well does it sell. A poor product should move along throigh the sales section and out. 

I have picked up some stuff that was not very good but a new texture made it work for me .

Quote - I suppose the store testing is really for technical stuff and not artistic niceness. The ultimate test of any product is how well does it sell. A poor product should move along throigh the sales section and out. 

I have picked up some stuff that was not very good but a new texture made it work for me .

Or clothing that fit a character hardly at all was suddenly made workable by Morphing Clothes.

I've been going back and making things work with new technology. And adding shaders can breathe new life into rather flat-looking stuff....

...so I just look at these items as unpolished gems rather than pure rubbish.

Feedback is always welcome with many vendors and appreciated.  Feedback can only help improve what is offered and help the vendor as well as customers.

Just my opinion.  Not speaking for all.

Pappy.

As long as the feedback or criticism isn't done in a public forum. In my early days I had a beta tester for another store bring her results to the alt.binaries group for a public airing of why she failed a certain product. This should have been done in private emails if she felt compelled to 'help' me.

The textue was easily fixed, but my confidence was shaken. Poser didn't install with displacement active and in her options she had that option enabled, so when rendered the face nearly exploded. LOL I had built it in poser 4 and I don't even think poser 4 had displacement. LOL

Now that was embarrassing. LOL

Beta testers are one thing, but people who are paying money are gonna pretty much do whatever they want.

Quote - As long as the feedback or criticism isn't done in a public forum. In my early days I had a beta tester for another store bring her results to the alt.binaries group for a public airing of why she failed a certain product. This should have been done in private emails if she felt compelled to 'help' me.

The textue was easily fixed, but my confidence was shaken. Poser didn't install with displacement active and in her options she had that option enabled, so when rendered the face nearly exploded. LOL I had built it in poser 4 and I don't even think poser 4 had displacement. LOL

Now that was embarrassing. LOL

Ooops!  I forgot about the feedback from those lacking social skills in my post.  I was referring to the IM's I have received of a personalable nature from those who send constructive feedback.  Not of a flaming or degrading nature.

The constructive feedback is what I appreciate from those who really care.

Oh yes. I agree. Open forums are more effective than the BBB these days. LOL I know I've gotten more of a response from customer service with threats of taking my problem to a public forum than any other way. I bought a software package once that had videos that would only run at one resolution, the lowest resolution available. I had my resolution set at a more normal resolution and couldn't get the videos to run. I had emailed for 2 days to get assistance with  it. When I finally mentioned a alt.binaries newsgroup that they used for promotion they called me within 5 minutes and walked me through it.

Anymore though I try to stay positive, for my mental health. LOL

pappy,

Yes a place for everything, and some are crass. I've never had any trouble here, that's why I will stay here.

Good points all around! Some of the weak products can be reinvigorated with some thought.

Your avatar, was it inspired by Land of the Lost from the 70's? LOL I just now realized where I had seen it. LOL

I think too you should look at if its a new vendors first product , or is it an established vendor who is rushing a product ro pull in a few bucks .  I have seen freestuff that was much better than a few store products. 

 I do believe that feedback and complaints should be private to the vendor. Give them a chance before going public.

Quote - Your avatar, was it inspired by Land of the Lost from the 70's? LOL I just now realized where I had seen it. LOL

Sleastack ;o). Or would that be Sleestack?

Something like that...lolol. Yes, I'm old enough to remember them! ;o).

Laurie

I've seen freestuff that I'm amazed is free stuff. Over in the DAZ freepository especially.

Beginners need some leaway, some of them may grow into something great others may just give up.

If something don't please me completely it goes into the free stuff pile. The benefit is a lesson learned.

Quote - > Quote - Your avatar, was it inspired by Land of the Lost from the 70's? LOL I just now realized where I had seen it. LOL

Sleastack ;o). Or would that be Sleestack?

Something like that...lolol. Yes, I'm old enough to remember them! ;o).

Laurie

Well you sure don't look it from your photo. LOL

Quote - Your avatar, was it inspired by Land of the Lost from the 70's? LOL I just now realized where I had seen it. LOL

So Land of the Lost with Will Ferrell is a remake?  Was the original a movie or a TV show?

Quote - Sometimes a very simple mesh becomes awesome with the addition of outstanding textures.

I agree.  

I don't knock anyone who has the talent to model things and the courage to put their wares "out there."

Not all modelers are texture artists, and many texture artists can't model. Some people work together in tandem and share the profits, others prefer to work on their own. Nothing wrong with either.  But I don't think it's very nice to tell people that they are producing crap. If you don't like, don't buy it.  Simple!

Quote - > Quote - Your avatar, was it inspired by Land of the Lost from the 70's? LOL I just now realized where I had seen it. LOL

So Land of the Lost with Will Ferrell is a remake?  Was the original a movie or a TV show?

yup remake and a TV show

 One thing I've learned here is, if the product is inferior, demand a refund! Works every time. If the vendor isn't cooperative, Rendo seems ready to step in and suggest they do what's right. For the record, I've demanded five refunds, and got four of them with no static.

Quote - > Quote - Your avatar, was it inspired by Land of the Lost from the 70's? LOL I just now realized where I had seen it. LOL

So Land of the Lost with Will Ferrell is a remake?  Was the original a movie or a TV show?

a 1970's era tv series pruced by Sid & Marty Kroft, creators of H.R Puffinstuff, Sigmund the seamonster, and Lidsville. SF writeers David Gerrold was the script editor for the first season, and Larry Niven wrote a script of two. Also many writers from the old Star Trek show of the 60's, like D.C. Fontana always wrote for the show.

All episodes are available (at least in the US) on DVD and the first season was on Hulu.com as well.

-- Jeff

Quote - > Quote - Your avatar, was it inspired by Land of the Lost from the 70's? LOL I just now realized where I had seen it. LOL

So Land of the Lost with Will Ferrell is a remake?  Was the original a movie or a TV show?

Was a Saturday morning live action thing. The Will Ferrell character was the other two characters father. SFX was not bad for the day. LOL

How we define what constitutes a great product and what is not changes as our skills improve... then it boils down to what we're willing to pay.

There are products that have attributes I find strongly undesirable (like burned-in speculars for eye colour resource kits) that other artists/developers think are awesome because of those attributes. Indeed, those attributes are a highly visible part of the marketing.
For that reason, I'm uncomfortable to label something anything qualitatively - because my needs usually differ widely from most other artists.

Interestingly, I did post a query to the developer of the resource kit mentioned above about purchasing a non-reflection version of the eye colour resource kit. The vendor appeared puzzled by my disenchantment of burnt-in speculars. It would have been no biggie to that vendor to send me a non-specular version, but he/she elected to tell me it couldn't be done, and so lost a sale.

Odd, that.

Yep,  I hate trying to texture eyes from photos because of the glint, is that what you are refering to? The software will put the glint in there for you and if it is in the texture it just looks too fake because of all the light sources.

Yep, that is what I'm referring to. Bagginsbill has come up with a eye-materials shader that reflects the lights in the scene... MUCH more realistic.

One of the things I've discovered, during a great deal of manic work using Wardrobe Wizard these days, is that sometimes it comes down something designed for a particular character mesh that simply doesnt work for that character. Everyone wants to ride the train with the latest iteration of the Showgirl, but sometimes those products just dont work on her, for whatever reason. However, run them through WW and put them on MayaDoll or something like that, and suddenly they look great.

And yes, sometimes a new texture will work wonders, but that means really going into the texture and working it.

Just my 0.02. YRMV.

Remapping older models to take more modern textures can also bring them renewed utility.  -or at least I think so!
dph

I once made a hair piece that, on retrospect, was totally awful from the get-go, and I doubt anything could've saved it. 

It's like that bad late-70's summer-camp movie I did to cover my SAG dues that I'd rather not be on my IMDB...if I were an actor.

Quote - Yep, that is what I'm referring to. Bagginsbill has come up with a eye-materials shader that reflects the lights in the scene... MUCH more realistic.

Hmmm. I must have missed that one.  Do you have a link?

Speaking of the original Land of the Lost, I worked with Chaka, Phil Paley, at Virgin in Los Angeles.  He was the youngest black belt when he played Chaka.  Sometimes he would give us a demonstration of his prowess.  Good grief he moved like lightning.

Quote - > Quote - Yep, that is what I'm referring to. Bagginsbill has come up with a eye-materials shader that reflects the lights in the scene... MUCH more realistic.

Hmmm. I must have missed that one.  Do you have a link?

for one, iirc, it's included in his VSS PR3 (or any of his default figure material templates for VSS).  for another, he has a free eye with materials he made for Antonia on his site.  i think he had plans to improve it, but his renders of it are already the best eyes i've seen out of Poser (and a few other programs).

oh, and i think quality is a completely individual judgment.  individual to not only the person defining it, but the moment they make that decision.  the time and resources they have, the knowledge the possess, the project/picture they plan to make, and even the mood they're in and who they've been talking to influence that judgment. 

"Flood filled" super-bland skin textures are one of those things I think are awful, but they sell like gangbusters (especially over at DAZ).

A nine year old model -- the Zygote Beastmaster -- with a new texture and some rescaling here and there to make the hands and feet look more in proportion. The rigging probably needs a little work, and there's a couple of glitches in the texturing (the right shoulder has a white spot I missed when putting this together), but still, for something almost a decade old, it polishes up pretty well. Click the image for a closer look.

Quote - > Quote - Yep, that is what I'm referring to. Bagginsbill has come up with a eye-materials shader that reflects the lights in the scene... MUCH more realistic.

Hmmm. I must have missed that one.  Do you have a link?

It's part of his Pr2 shader - well, that's the one I'm using is, anyway, Acadia. I'm not actually using Pr3 but I'm certain he'd have something equally clever in there. Have a look in all the eye materials: really quite impressive what he does!

Quote - "Flood filled" super-bland skin textures are one of those things I think are awful, but they sell like gangbusters (especially over at DAZ).

That might be a bit of over generalization , I buy a lot of skin textures at DAZ & haven't come across a flood filled one yet.

LOL I believe if this thread continues someone is gonna get hurt. LOL

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Yep, that is what I'm referring to. Bagginsbill has come up with a eye-materials shader that reflects the lights in the scene... MUCH more realistic.

Hmmm. I must have missed that one.  Do you have a link?

It's part of his Pr2 shader - well, that's the one I'm using is, anyway, Acadia. I'm not actually using Pr3 but I'm certain he'd have something equally clever in there. Have a look in all the eye materials: really quite impressive what he does!

I still have no clue what you're talking about :(
Can someone please post a link to the thread so that I can look through it and put it into the "Material Room Bookmarks" Thread?

Attached Link: Bagginsbill VSS

they speak of VSS the versatile Shader System,

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Yep, that is what I'm referring to. Bagginsbill has come up with a eye-materials shader that reflects the lights in the scene... MUCH more realistic.

Hmmm. I must have missed that one.  Do you have a link?

It's part of his Pr2 shader - well, that's the one I'm using is, anyway, Acadia. I'm not actually using Pr3 but I'm certain he'd have something equally clever in there. Have a look in all the eye materials: really quite impressive what he does!

I still have no clue what you're talking about :(
Can someone please post a link to the thread so that I can look through it and put it into the "Material Room Bookmarks" Thread?

I'm terribly sorry, Acadia... I thought you had been following the VSS discussions. In Bagginsbill's posts he has a link to his freebie stuff: and on that page you will see a dot-point item under downloads:
VSS PR2 Control Prop (Don't get this unless you're curious - use PR3 - makes your character blue)
In that VSS thingie are shaders for all the eye materials. They are the ones I currently use.

I'm terribly sorry I was so obscure, Acadia... please feel free to query if I've left anything unexplained.

Bagginsbill will tell you that his Pr3 stuff is superior, so you might want to go with that.

Pr2 and Pr3 are the skin shaders that he sent out with VSS. Many people confuse VSS with the shaders: they are two distinctly different items. VSS is a tool he wrote to distribute shaders on figures and props. The shaders are an example of how it can be done.

What's a Flood Filled skin?  The last flood I ever heard about involved a man named Noah and an Ark.
dph

it's a skin mainly made from a repeating, seamless skin tile

Quote - it's a skin mainly made from a repeating, seamless skin tile

Sounds like a mistake from the word GO.
dph

More than that, it's a texture made from using the paint bucket tool and dumping a solid color onto the character - not even a tiling skin texture, just a solid color.  Very popular at DAZ's store.

Quote - More than that, it's a texture made from using the paint bucket tool and dumping a solid color onto the character - not even a tiling skin texture, just a solid color.  Very popular at DAZ's store.

Sounds a bit like Andy Warhol.
dph