Oh boy, this thread's gonna get interesting....

Here's what I see (and yes, I've had artistic training AND have had children of my own ;o)):

The head is too large for the body. The shoulders are too broad and should be more sloped as they come down from the neck and head.  Given the size of the torso, the legs are too short. The face is too old looking for the age group that the Kids are supposed to be in (although in all fairness, I HAVE seen some images where the artist was able to make it look a little more appropriate to the age with morphs). Noses in young children are very indistinct. In fact, if you look at a few children who are unrelated to each other, they have similar nose structure. It's not until we grow older that our noses become more sculptured. The nose on the Kids needs to be a little flatter, wider and very rounded. Those are some of the more glaringly obvious things that I've noticed :o).

Laurie

Quote - Noses in young children are very indistinct. In fact, if you look at a few children who are unrelated to each other, they have similar nose structure. It's not until we grow older that our noses become more sculptured.

So ... Jimmie Durante looked like all the other kids?

Wasn't Pinocchio a kid also? Of course one might say his nose was not an issue until he lied. :laugh:

Jimmie Durante once said about his own baby picture that "The nose was born and the kid grew on it," LOL!

Quote - > Quote - Noses in young children are very indistinct. In fact, if you look at a few children who are unrelated to each other, they have similar nose structure. It's not until we grow older that our noses become more sculptured.

So ... Jimmie Durante looked like all the other kids?

Naaaah  Jimmy just hung out with Hoagy Carmichael in the school yard.

Thanks Laurie for your opinion
For me the head is really incorrect  Idem for the shoulder
I think Daz must ajust the body or make morphs for  a correct kid  according real anatomy
and same for conforming products

The P4 children look better than THIS!!!  Yee G-ds, what monstrosity has DAZ come up with now?!?!

Quote - Oh boy, this thread's gonna get interesting....

The head is too large for the body. The shoulders are too broad and should be more sloped as they come down from the neck and head.  Given the size of the torso, the legs are too short. The face is too old looking for the age group that the Kids are supposed to be in (although in all fairness, I HAVE seen some images where the artist was able to make it look a little more appropriate to the age with morphs). Noses in young children are very indistinct. In fact, if you look at a few children who are unrelated to each other, they have similar nose structure. It's not until we grow older that our noses become more sculptured. The nose on the Kids needs to be a little flatter, wider and very rounded. Those are some of the more glaringly obvious things that I've noticed :o).

***Ditto, a very Lame attempt for Kid.

---

 Looks like a 12-13 yr old midget. How old is the kid SUPPOSED to be? I haven't heard that yet. For an inappropriately short limbed twelve year old, he looks fine.:laugh:

I'll keep the version 3 children over these, thanks ;o). They went a little farther toward looking more realistic than these newer versions :o).

@joelglaine: I think they are supposed to be up to 8 years old if I remember correctly. Much too told looking to be as young as 8. They look a lot like scaled down adults with an attempt to adjust eyes and the faces a little bit. They didn't go nearly far enough.

Laurie

In the mean time until I can be sold on getting more then the free stuff body or character wise, one has to assume the updates for XD an WW2 are underway and we will shortly be able to fit the Mil3 kids with more clothes and stuff until the K4 hoopla dies down.

A child should have a larger head and shorter legs than an adult , and the proportions change as they age and enter puberty.  The Kids promo picture I would have put at maybe 5 or so.

The Toddler is Daz and Carrera only , not for Poser. I would be curious to know what goes wrong with it in Poser.  

I dont have much use for the child models so I have not rushed to look at these.

Quote - A child should have a larger head and shorter legs than an adult , and the proportions change as they age and enter puberty.  The Kids promo picture I would have put at maybe 5 or so.

The Toddler is Daz and Carrera only , not for Poser. I would be curious to know what goes wrong with it in Poser.  

I dont have much use for the child models so I have not rushed to look at these.

Yep, that's true, but not THAT big and not THAT short...lol. Also, the legs are very thick...much thicker than I would expect them to be from a child (not a toddler, but an older child). Maybe it looks way off to me cause both my boys had rather slim, knock-kneed little legs ;o). They were also much thinner across the ribcage and chest with a bit of a round belly.

Laurie

My first impression was that perhaps they were stylized to be more of an anime type figure. I dont know, but since I very seldom actually use content for anything other than curiosity, I wont miss the kids. (wow, just like in real life. :) I really could do without anymore snot nosed brats :laugh:

Mine fled the nest a few years back now...lol.

I was looking at a pic of my oldest just now at 13 and he looks a lot like that K4 boy looks. Don't quite work...lol. The boy on the left was/is my oldest (now 26) and the one on the left is my youngest at 10 years (now 23). The baby in the center was/is my niece ;o).

It's almost as if the designers of the Kids didn't even look at pics of their own kids to go by. ??

Laurie

 I think they must be single guys trying to remember what children look like on TV or such!:laugh:

That must be it. I got no other answer for it. That's the only logical answer.:lol:

 I personally think they look strange out of the box, though I've seen a couple of morphs that looked okay.  I'm not into kid art - I'd be more apt to do cartoonish poser characters before children, so they aren't on my list.  

This isn't giving me much hope for V5/M5.

Why are they so creepy-looking? I'm going to have nightmares tonight.

Funny you should mention creepy looking because I was thinking it'd be great if they were morphed into those miner aliens from Galaxy Quest.

Well, not to be funny but...

I can only imagine what the Baby 4 will be like...  :lol:

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

V5/M5?  We haven't seen Stephanie Petite 4 yet!

Quote - V5/M5?  We haven't seen Stephanie Petite 4 yet!

...and I fear the same is coming with her...sigh

Laurie

No offense LaurieA but that family snapshot is gonna make me sleep with the light on tonight

:woot:

Quote - V5/M5?  We haven't seen Stephanie Petite 4 yet!

Heck, what about David 4, not to mention the Teens 4, so a Gen5 is way, way off the beaten path, if y'know what I mean.

Quote - The boy on the left was/is my oldest (now 26) and the one on the left is my youngest at 10 years (now 23).

Laurie has Two Lefts?

I don't think it's possible to generalize about proportions like that. It's not just adults that come in all shapes and sizes.

As for whether the default head looks young enough for the body - maybe not, although I think it's a passable starting point. Does anybody really render defaults? To me, the real issue is how well the mesh handles things to morph the way you want.

Quote - > Quote - The boy on the left was/is my oldest (now 26) and the one on the left is my youngest at 10 years (now 23).

Laurie has Two Lefts?

Well, some people have two left feet, so she has two left.... -whatever!
dph

 Daz said in their forums that there will be NO Teens 4. They said it didn't make any sense to make them from an economical view point. They might  beg off of some of the other figures at this point.

I was initially disappointed, but after seeing Kids4, I now could care less. The quality is not what it used to be.

*"Does anybody really render defaults?"

Yes, I do!  Default Posette's face is beautiful, and one that is often rendered straight out of the box (albeit with my remap she's even more so!).
Ultimately, it's the quality of the texture that's more important than the quality of the model itself.
dph

Looking at my own kids and then at the DAZ creepies, all I can say is that you will have a hard time finding clothes for the creepies in real life. I'm really wondering if the modelers from DAZ even have a real life and if they are allowed to get out of the office it all. I'm really hoping that the kids of the modelers (if they even have some) don't look like these kids, they will have a hard time at school. I can already hear the other kids wisper and making up names.....

They just "Mini-Me"'d M4, then smoothed his body until there were none details whatsoever left and then topped it of with a watermellon.

Sure, the default faces are somewhat cuter than Matt and Maddie, but that's true for the Freak, too.

I tried to create more realistic "grade schooler" proportions for the Boy that better match the face, but sadly even the slightest scaling breaks the mesh.

I still say the P4 and P5 kids look better!
dph

Quote - I still say the P4 and P5 kids look better!
dph

Much better

Quote -  Looks like a 12-13 yr old midget. How old is the kid SUPPOSED to be? I haven't heard that yet. For an inappropriately short limbed twelve year old, he looks fine.:laugh:

I believe the Kids are supposed to be 8-10 years old.

Quote - No offense LaurieA but that family snapshot is gonna make me sleep with the light on tonight

:woot:

 

???

Quote - > Quote - The boy on the left was/is my oldest (now 26) and the one on the left is my youngest at 10 years (now 23).

Laurie has Two Lefts?

LOL...sorry. The oldest is the one on the RIGHT holding my niece ;o).

I do, however, have two left hands, only noticeable while typing ;o).

Laurie

All this hype about the Unimesh and how much versatility it is supposed to give. What stopped them from going all the way and making the Kids4 accept other generation 4 textures and morphs?

Quote - What stopped them from going all the way and making the Kids4 accept other generation 4 textures and morphs?

Money, probably.

So far I've only downloaded the free base package, but it looks like the texture mapping, while different, is not hugely so. When I get time I'll have a go at making some Photoshop actions to adapt V4 textures to Kids 4.

 They have different UV mapping? From which one? M4 which has one UV map or V4 which has a different UV map? Or from all of the above?

That ONE FACT mean they aren't Unimesh!

Freak,SP3,David,M3,A3, H3,V3,Luke,Laura,Mat,Maddie, and the Mil3 baby ALL had the same UV mapping so they all could swap textures. Only M3 and Freak had different mesh, but all the rest could share morphs.

If they cannot share UV mapping OR morphs, that means DAZ is either lying or is stupid. If it is NOT ONE MESH, it is not a UNIMESH!  Good lord. What were they thinking. They ALL should share the UV maps! Heck, they could have hired Mister Hoadley to do that! :laugh:

Sad to see that the Mil 3 were almost one mesh, and the Mil4 are just BS publicity with no fact checking. I think I'll spend my money elsewhere. Sad to see DAZ slip so much. I am disappointed after being a big fan for years.

Quote - > Quote -  Looks like a 12-13 yr old midget. How old is the kid SUPPOSED to be? I haven't heard that yet. For an inappropriately short limbed twelve year old, he looks fine.:laugh:

I believe the Kids are supposed to be 8-10 years old.

From the packs that come with them, I'm thinking younger, like 6 to 7, 8 on the high end. For me, the design feels like an adult head squished down on a sorta/kinda kid's body. The eyes are just... well, as one poster put it, creepy.

Definitely not their best work. M4 looked amazing, a huge turn around IMHO. The kids just put the bar waaaaaay back down.

I had the package in my shopping cart at Daz, but after reading all of this, I deleted it.

Believeable3d wrote:
"I don't think it's possible to generalize about proportions like that. It's not just adults that come in all shapes and sizes."

I agree, and assuming DAZ thinks the same way, it makes it rather strange that there are only four body morphs in the Kids 4 Morph++ pack (compared to 203 Head morphs); namely Navel, Nipples, Thin and Heavy. (Chibi seems to be same as Thin?). There is also Realistic in the Base but that is... well, not very realistic.
"Thin" is actually mostly "sunken abdomen" and Heavy is as you would expect; fat.
There are some morphforms which are useful but where are all the limb adjustments, the toe curls etc. etc. The default bum is a bubble butt to say the least. So, where is the Glute size morph.
Sigh... DAZ... the K4 Morph++ package is sadly lacking.

They are really bad modelled when it comes to the matter of realism in all aspects.
Who the --- did such crappy work?
It´s even possible to achieve better results with V4!

According to Daz they're a huge hit, LOL!

Quote - According to Daz they're a huge hit, LOL!

Well, it's Daz and it's true enough that a lot of people are ready and willing to open up their wallets because its, um, Daz....lol.

I think Daz works-in-progress should go through a vetting process much like Antonia and Brad have here...they show what they've got, people make suggestions on what to fix, they fix, they resubmit and so on... Each time the figure gets better.

Never gonna happen...lmao.

Laurie

In the promo pic for the Kids 4 Base,the boy's face looks like young Ted Kennedy; not a boy Ted Kennedy, but a young man...

Quote - > Quote - V5/M5?  We haven't seen Stephanie Petite 4 yet!

...and I fear the same is coming with her...sigh

Laurie

What Laurie said. 

Since it is very likely that the people who were responsible for V4/M4/K4 will also be doing the 5s, unless they get their act together...

The D5s are doomed.

Someone in the Poser community will just have to pick up the slack, cause I dont see Daz dropping the ridiculous single axis scaling crap.  So expect the same from now on.

And......... if.......... the CP vendors would actually try to support a non Daz or SM figure (unlikely) Poser could have its own stable of great figures. It also takes Poser content users to be willing to purchase a non Daz figure.  Just sayin.

While I admit that the Kids 4 are not perfect, to me there is no question that they are the best child figures on the market.  The poser 4 and 5 kids are better?  As if - have you looked at the Poser 4 boy lately?  There is no way that he even is in the same room where it comes to looking realistic.  Even the most recent Poser boy - Ben - apart from the fact that he's ugly, he doesn't pose worth a crap without getting distorted.
K4 isn't perfect - I wish there were more morphs for one thing - but there are some major improvements from Matt and Maddie.  I used Matt a lot, but the fact was he had no neck.  Over time, people (like Tim Polemar) had made things that improved the Gen 3 preschoolers - I've no doubt that the same thing will happen here.
My first thought was that the Kid 4's head was too big - until I overlaid it on top of a photo of my real life 7yo nephew - whose head was even BIGGER by proportion.  Granted, my nephew has a big head, but not freakishly so - K4 is well within the normal range head size for a kid that age.
I mean the other thing - K4 is free - it's not like you are being charged for it.  But more to the point; is anyone else going to make a kid figure?  I'd support one because I use a lot of kids in my renders, but I don't see anyone working on one.  DAZ is far from perfect, but they have been far more accomidating to those of us who like rendering kids than anyone else has.  I don't think it's a big money-maker for them, either - though I think this set may have better support and sales for products than the last one.
I just don't get why everyone sounds so indignant or insulted about the issue.  Show me something better and I'll hop on board.