Suggestion... I think, that Renderosity should place disqualifiers for gallery images that will keep them out of the charts. 

One of them, considering all the hard work that goes into the various content offered for artists to do what they love, don't you think, that merchants should be credited for their content!? They really pour alot into the things artists use to display their creations. However, many do no even mention the merchants/vendors - giving them credit for whatever articles they've purchase to use in their art.

And Renderosity has set in place, everything needed, to give vendors, merchants credit for their work, created merchandise. Mentioning, and giving credit, would no doubt help the sales of the merchants. However, so few mention them in their submitted work. In fact, many are regularly listed in the charts for their art work, but never give credit to the merchants, doesn't matter if it was free, or paid for. It's in their art, because of what many merchants have done.

So - there should be a disqualifier for any to be in the charts... - no mention or credit to the merchants and vendors... no place in the charts. Doesn't matter how many comments, or ratings one gets - if that one, can't take the time to give credit where credit is due, why should they be shown in the Gallery charts?

Something Rendo should think about, it's a small show of respect and appreciation for the hard working vendors that submit content in the market and in the free area.

While I agree it's common courtesy to mention merchants and freebie creators in any given image, I'm not sure I think it should be a requirement to mention them. At least for things they paid for because, well, they paid for them. If it were a printed image, the artist of the final image isn't obligated to mention everything they used in the image - stock photo suppliers, etc. Shouldn't be for digital images either ;o).

It is nice to mention them though, I agree :o). I just don't think it should be mandatory.

Laurie

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll add it to the list.

However that said , altho it is nice to mention or give credit, it is not mandatory that customers do so, nor should those same customers be penalized for not giving credit in their rendered images.

Quote -
At least for things they paid for because, well, they paid for them. If it were a printed image, the artist of the final image isn't obligated to mention everything they used in the image - stock photo suppliers, etc. Shouldn't be for digital images either ;o).

It is nice to mention them though, I agree :o). I just don't think it should be mandatory.

Laurie

I'm talking, in terms of making the charts... if an artist doesn't wish to give credit, that's fine, but by doing so, they shouldn't be considered for the charts.

Quote - Thanks for the suggestion, I'll add it to the list.

However that said , altho it is nice to mention or give credit, it is not mandatory that customers do so, nor should those same customers be penalized for not giving credit in their rendered images.

Not saying there should be a penalty. No, no penalty at all. However, if one is going to make the charts, one of the qualifiers should be giving credit. Consider how many people visit the images that makes the chart, if all those images have credits listed, this will promote the products used in that image - and will up the sales to certain vendors. In my own experience, I have made many purchases because of an art image I've seen and thought, I have to have that; hair; outfit, pose package, background, prop - whatever it may have been... because of the art work I was looking at.

This is nothing but - a win win for all around. Not a penalty. If you don't list credits, your art is still observed, commented upon, rated... however, it won't make the charts because the artist did not give credit where credit is due... purchased items in the art work, or free - doesn't matter.

So, if I made an ad for print and used purchased fonts, clipart, stock photos, etc....I should put a line with credits in the ad? I think not...lol.

Laurie

Quote - > Quote -

At least for things they paid for because, well, they paid for them. If it were a printed image, the artist of the final image isn't obligated to mention everything they used in the image - stock photo suppliers, etc. Shouldn't be for digital images either ;o).

It is nice to mention them though, I agree :o). I just don't think it should be mandatory.

Laurie

I'm talking, in terms of making the charts... if an artist doesn't wish to give credit, that's fine, but by doing so, they shouldn't be considered for the charts.

so.... who sits there and checks the content is credited against which master list of content produced by each company / individual and where would you register said content for inclusion into said list?
 since if that's a requirement - aka crediting all for inclusion into the charts - then checks would need to be made in the case of any complaints....

Well, this is a suggestion box forum, I made my suggestion - this is not rocket science. Few artist in any of the Rendo art charts, made it to that chart on their own... they needed the vendors hard works first, to bring together whatever work of art they presented to the gallery. To make the charts, give credit where it's due.

Why this seems complicated is beyond me.

Another thing worth mentioning is that this site is already saturated with "advertising" ;o).

Edit: It's not complicated. Not at all. When I do a render I try my best to mention what I used in it, but to require it is another matter entirely. Those people paid for their products and as such can use them however they wish (according to the license). There's no expressed implication in the license that one must credit the vendor they purchased from in every render they created with said item. For what it's worth, I've also seen something in a render that I like enough to buy and don't know who did it or what it is. At which point, I contact the person who did the render and ask them ;o).

Laurie

I so agree with the suggestion of M Keyes.  Giving credit to the merchant/vendors for products used should be the primary prerequisite for gaining a place on any of the art charts.  Since Renderosity has in place the apparatus to credit our vendors surely this can be accomplished. 
To be recognized as a cut above all others,  there should be rules. If one wishes not to include the information then their renders should remain in their individual galleries still receiving comments, favorites and recognition from other art enthusiasts .  I think showing recognition to our vendors would benefit the entire Renderosity community in terms of respect, growth and financial reward.  (I have in mind Motion Picture credits, Musical Album credits for examples)

Even if the products are purchased, my point is, just who receives recognition  in the art charts.  The art is not a product of the submitting artist alone.  My thoughts above pretain ONLY for the placement of artwork in the art charts.  JUST WHO HELPED THE ARTIST TO GET THERE!

Quote -
There's no expressed implication in the license that one must credit the vendor they purchased from in every render they created with said item.

Laurie

No where, have I said any such thing! If they don't wish to list credits, they don't have to! They can leave them out! Art will still be on display! Comments will still be noted! Ratings will still be made. No change... however, to make the charts... list credits.

Otherwise, your art is welcome, and all goes on as it should, but you WILL NOT be in the charts. Simple... has nothing to do with licenses, rights and all that other B.S. you mentioned. Stop complicating the matter and looking for ways to twist the point that's trying to be made here.

Yeesh! Golly-gee-willickers!

OK, I shall reword that then...

There's no expressed implication in the license that one must credit the vendor they purchased from in every render they create that makes it to the Renderosity charts ;o).

Laurie

Quote - Stop complicating the matter and looking for ways to twist the point that's trying to be made here.

Most people would end up crediting the main figure and nothing else to qualify, for an end result of no real difference in what gets into the charts.

I love the vendors here..and I always give them credit when possible.  But..bottom line is..without the artist there won't be any art!   If its ok now to get into the charts without giving every credit...then to change it now would be a penalty...and I say that as someone who never gives the charts a second thought when doing a render.
You can argue that without the vendors there won't be any art..but you would be wrong...an artist will always find a medium and tools to create.....and if I pay for the use of something and abide by the TOS or contract that goes with it...then technically I've done my part...anything else is just gravy!

I can't imagine how this would be supervised to make sure that the images that make it in the charts are all crediting the products that have been used to create that image.  Pretty soon you'd have people complaining because there are credits missing on an image that made it in the chart:  "Hey!  This image made it in the chart but the hair texture by so and so isn't credited, it's not fair, it shouldn't be in the chart!".  I'm thinking this would be a bit of a nightmare for the admins having to check this out?

I'm sorry you don't agree with me MKeyes, but I wasn't twisting the point.

You said that it was only fair that persons who make it to the charts with their renders give the vendors credit. What's fair is this: if a person wants to give credit to someone in their render notes, then that is up to them. That's great. That's nice. But, if it's required, the person who did the render could theoretically charge the vendor for advertising - in the interest of fairness of course ;o). Requiring that an artist MUST give credit for any reason after having paid for the items they've used (paid for to USE in renders I may add) would be tantamount to them not only having to pay for the privilege to use the item, but now having to pay AND give free advertising. Does that make sense?

I can sympathize with the vendor: I used to be one and I hope to be one again at some point, but I would never even dream of requiring that not only does the purchaser have to hand over some dough but that they have to give me free advertising too. There's no fairness involved in that. Much as it might be nice, you can't force someone to give free advertising after they've paid for the item. And that's what it is - free advertising. Even if it is common courtesy and just plain nice :o).

Laurie

Also, what if you made everything in the render yourself ? I'm not going to credit myself, that's just silly.
And what about vendors from other sites like Cornucopia3D ? A lot of Vue stuff isn't even sold here so how can you credit it ?

It is mandatory to credit/mention if the vendor says it is. The creator (vendor) can set what the copywrite rules are on thier products in thier terms of use txt that comes with each product when people buy it. If that is not noted in the terms of use, then it's not an issue. If it is, it is. That's just simple copywrite law. Courtesy is another issue all-together. I for one, credit every single item that I did not create myself in at least some way. It's about integrity and respect for your work and others.

Mandatory credit/mention is NOT included in the Renderosity license. End of story.

Freebies are another matter all together. If the creator deems that in order to use their work in a render then credit must be given then that's the "price" of the freebie so to speak. The day that mentioning everything I paid for in every render I do is mandatory is the day I no longer make a render. I don't mind doing it if it's for a freebie - I don't even mind doing it for commercial products that I buy. But being told I MUST on a product that I also gave someone money for is where I draw the line.

How many ads do you see with a disclaimer at the bottom: Fonts by "..."; Stock Photos by "....", Lineart by "....", Design by "..."??? The answer is none. That's because print and production houses pay for those items. There's now an assumption that the item is royalty-free because the organizations in question bought them for that purpose. Does every newscast mention the brand of film used or the camera used? Nope. Same reason.

I also try to credit the vendor whenever possible when I do a render out of courtesy and because I always like to see a vendor sell more from the exposure if I can. I loathe the idea that it be compulsory. Not when I've paid for it. There I draw the line...  And it's there I stop buying. Otherwise, if I must mention the creator, I want a royalty fee. Just to be fair...

Laurie

I do agree with Laurie.  The main reason I credit vendors whose things I used is because I think someone else may want to know what it is and where it came from and want to use it too. 
I guess I could just put a notice at the bottom and tell e'one to contact me and ask if they need to  know about  something.   

 Well I respectfully agree to disagree and I agree with the OP.

Basically what I do is credit things I received for free. ( and no I do not have a gallery on site but in several other places.) When I pay however, I gave the vendor my thanks in money, I tend to pack a lot... very many and then some things into my images mix at least 5 outfits add anywhere from 20 to 150 props render then draw the rest by hand, I would take me too long to credit all the things  I paid for anyways. If however a free product was used somewhere in the picture that will find itself in the credits no questions asked.

I completely disagree with the original proposal.

First, it's not possible to control whether all due credit was given in any particular image, as some have already noted. If it can't be controlled, then it can't be made into a rule. It's as simple as that.

Second, why credit only content creators? What about the tools? The tools are as important (if not more) to achieve a certain result. If I'm a traditional painter, I should credit the brand of paint, brush and canvas I used. If I'm a digital artist, I should credit the monitor brand (vital to get a decent color adjustment), plus all the software I used in my workflow to produce the image (and most artists use a lot of tools), plus all the fonts that I used to title the image, plus the inspiration sources, etc, etc, etc.
What about your training and education? Shouldn't you credit your art teacher? He made 90% of what you are as an artist! Everything contributes to that final image!

So, either credit all or nothing. To stay halfway is to say that some are more important than others and that is not fair.

I don't usually credit images as the majority of the time, no joke, I don't always remember everything I used in a particular image or image set, not to mention that I prefer to post fairly quickly (not only on this but other sites as well).. I would spend an additional 20 minutes to track everything I sometimes use in a piece then type it all out, then make sure I hadn't forgotten anything.. then laughing lose it all when I click preview or submit, and left out some checkbox   =)

As a vendor now myself, I don't mind if anyone does or doesn't credit.. I thank folks for the purchase in my readme files and I thank (in general terms) the vendors who made the items I use in my promos.  If someone made the purchase, I hope they like the product enough to use it.

Quote -  Well I respectfully agree to disagree and I agree with the OP.

How's this. Put up or shut up time. If you and the OP want the job of checking each and every gallery image UNPAID and approving them for the art charts. Sign on the dotted line!

........................................................................................................................................................

Because as it stands now, checking the gallery images is the unpaid job of the coordinators and mods here.

Okay, let me get this straight.

1. I spend my money to buy a product.
2. The vendor gets part of it
3. Renderosity gets part of it for ads and the upkeep of the site
4. When I use said product, I have to give the vendor credit  to get into this privilege circle called the "ART CHART", so the vendor would have more exposure?

Here's my beef.

Is this 'ART CHART' based on the art or the products?
Why call it an ART CHART?
Isn't a BILLBOARD a more appropriate name?

If you go throught with this idea, I propose that it is only fair that all the artists who made the art charts, should get paid by the merchants or renderosity for the exposure.

Think about it.

my 2 cents

JV

What if I forget the vendors for items I used?
What if I don't list them because I got the item elsewhere?
What if I don't credit an artist because an aspect of their item sucks (like the node set up in the mat room) and I have to go through the process of fixing it myself?
What if I decide not to credit a vendor unless I get a piece of the action from any purchases (no free advertisement)?
What if someone likes something they just send a sitemail to the artist asking what they used?

IMO requiring people to post which items they used is a little dubious. 

Gang, let's not get twisted up here..

I would like to thank the artists who took the time to credit vendors for their artwork.  Before purchasing a product, I always browse the "Galleries by Vendor" to discover how other buyers created images from the product I'm interested in.

Bleah.  I'm totally against the OP's suggestion.  I may not post images regularly but you can bet your ass I will stop completely if crediting the creator of something I paid for becomes mandatory or even desirable. 

Freebies, yes.  Bought content, not on your life.