I purchase alot of  Poser characters, that is, "people"  created by artists and sold on sites like Renderosity.  Once I buy the character, I try to mold it into a more normal looking human.  So I have to ask a question of many of these artists.  Why are you so hesitant to make your characters look more like real people?   With very few exceptions, they all look basically like Ken and Barbie:  small noses, perfect chins, cheekbones, magnificent shapes, etc.  Real people have bumps in their noses, defects in their facial and body structures, are skinny, fat, etc.  
I have seen and bought some great Poser characters, like Angelina  and Brad and Hermione.   Why not more of these?   I know you are capable. I've seen Obama, Hillary, and McCain, and (bought) El Padrino.  But please...we need more to work with.    A bump on the nose of a girl (or  guy can be sexy! **  Lost's** Matthew Fox is an example.     Sure, I can add the bump or wrinkles myself,  but it would have taken me forever or never to create my own Brad or Angie.

Poser is fantasy!  In fantasy, all the good guys are physically perfect in every way!  Just look at the art of the late great Frank Frazetta!
dph

DPHoadley is right, for most people. Some part of my Poser activity is fantasy, but a large part is necessary for work. For that purpose,I need to make the figures less pretty. but I have fun doing it. I love a realistically flawed texture though, with blemishes, wrinkles, freckles and so on, though perhaps not all at the same time.

I refuse to answer on the grounds that it might get me incinerated...lol.

Laurie

Quote "Poser is fantasy!  In fantasy, all the good guys are physically perfect in every way!  Just look at the art of the late great Frank Frazetta!
dph"

Tell that to Quasimodo lol

It's simple really. The blandness of beauty is easier to mar and freckle than it is to remove mars and freckles from an imperfect figure. We saw this with the Poser 6 figures especially clearly in James and Koji 1 who's built in muscle definition was so sharp you couldn't smooth it out for less muscley (Is that a word? Muscley?) figures.

If you look at my gallery, my Emberglow Graphic Novel figures are modeled after real actors: The Swiss governess is modeled after Sophie Marceau, The anonymous English Gentleman is modeled after Stephen Dillane, the pair in the Dining Room are modeled after Sin'ead Cusack and Richard Armitage.
dph

Quote - It's simple really. The blandness of beauty is easier to mar and freckle than it is to remove mars and freckles from an imperfect figure. We saw this with the Poser 6 figures especially clearly in James and Koji 1 who's built in muscle definition was so sharp you couldn't smooth it out for less muscley (Is that a word? Muscley?) figures.

Try muscularity.
dph

Interesting comments!  Thanks, y'all.

A lot of people seem to have fantasy that swings to the real as opposed to the fake though.

There is probably more fake porn of  Patricia Richardson, Patricia Heaton, Leah Remini and Alyson Hannigan or even Rachael Ray then of Cindi Crawford and that elk. I think the post popular for fakes is Jennifer Love Hewitt who although very attractive is basically an ordinary looking woman.

I think that a lot of people find ordinary looking people in ordinary clothes the most erotic. Men date super model types for the prestige for the most part...  erotic taste tends much more to the average build with a pretty face or smile.

As for dudes... some sex symbols are quite pretty like Tom Cruise or Harrison Ford but women seem if anything more likely to eroticize Hugh Laurie, Hugh Grant or even Steve Buscemi.

I think it is about what stores find sexy as opposed to what people find sexy.

What if you as a merchant put the imperfection in the wrong spot?  No one buys it.  Anyways, if I wanted ugly I'd get a character with tattoos because IMO 95% or more of them are ugly.

[quoteAs for dudes... some sex symbols are quite pretty like Tom Cruise or Harrison Ford but women seem if anything more likely to eroticize Hugh Laurie, Hugh Grant or even Steve Buscemi

"Steve Buscemi" and "eroticize" should never be in the same sentence.

That's a good idea for a product for someone to make.  A whole set of ugly morphs. Something you could dirty up your character with.  Nose bumps, scars, asymmetrical morphs, lazy eye morphs, pimple displacement maps, cellulite and lumpy bumpy fat. How about that bleached, sallow skin look that is most common with ordinary? Knobby knees and bow legged women.  

Edit: Almost forgott, a must have. Those saggy, flappy, happy breasts, you know the type, had 10 kids and lookin tired kind of thing.  :scared:

Quote - Almost forgott, a must have. Those saggy, flappy, happy breasts, you know the type, had 10 kids and lookin tired kind of thing.  :scared:

Hmm...picture a tube sock with a golf ball at the bottom...lmao.

Anyway, they don't look so bad if you tuck em under your armpits or throw em over your shoulder ;o).

Laurie

Quote -

"Steve Buscemi" and "eroticize" should never be in the same sentence.

OMG...for real! The very thought gives me full body shivers...lolol.

Laurie

To the OP:

I hesitate to state the obvious...

You can do this yourself! Have you looked at the morph dials on the character's face? Heck, I can't model at all but was able to use the morph dials to sculpt a pretty average looking guy (who just happens to look like me as a young man.)  At least I don't think he looks "perfect," cause God knows no one ever thought I was a dreamboat when I was young!!

Quite often I start with a purchased character that is "close" to what I want, and then drag out the plastic surgery dials.

Time for a serious post:

If you would like to make a face less symmetrical, you can split a morph down the center by clicking the arrow next to the dial and choosing Split Morph. That way you can adjust individually for each side of the face and make each slightly different.

Laurie

 Hey Roman Girl-

 Good questions! Faces are asymmetrical- as LaurieA points out. But there are plenty of dials to fiddle with to remove perfection,

I always tweak-unless they already look like a character- Angel(ina) is great-except her lips are far larger than Angelina's- I looked at several pics to compare. Where did you find Brad and Hermione? Most curious!

If the figure is faceroom compatible, you can very easily bring in asymmetry. For me that is one of the most useful features of the faceroom - making the figures look more ordinary.

LaurieA-

 Do I have to always make sure I am NOT eating or drinking when I read your posts? :-)

 Eric

Quote - LaurieA-

 Do I have to always make sure I am NOT eating or drinking when I read your posts? :-)

 Eric

 5 minutes of dialing. TAKE THAT LaurieA! :-)

    Eric

 Seriously- the point is that V4 has fewer Morph options from Daz. M4 had a "Beer Belly" morph!

**@**Eric Walters;
Put a beard on him, and make his tits bigger, and he could pass for me!
dph

DP

 Well then M4 IS a more versatile figure! Not more versatile than Posette-of course!

Attached Link: Sometimes, Grown Men Cry Too...

Quote -
There is probably more fake porn of  Patricia Richardson, Patricia Heaton, Leah Remini and Alyson Hannigan or even Rachael Ray ...

There's fake Rachael Ray porn? :woot: [scampers off to Google] :lol:

More on-topic, the P8 characers certainly certainly didn't get a warm reception...

Wow!   Lots of replies on this one.  To Basicwiz, I have been changing my purchased subjects into my own characters for years and years.    But it is really cool to get characters like the Godfather (el padrino), Angelina, and Brad,  whom I couldn't create in a zillion years.  I know because I've tried.

I have found that P5 figures are the most faceroom-compatible.   You?

Quote - If the figure is faceroom compatible, you can very easily bring in asymmetry. For me that is one of the most useful features of the faceroom - making the figures look more ordinary.

 I have to agree with the OP.  The tiny nose syndrome is getting old and I really don't see how a ridiculously small nose can turn a face into a 'fantasy' face.  Makes no sense to me.  It just looks ugly IMO.

Check out the Nose Brigade textures in Renderosity.

Quote -  I have to agree with the OP.  The tiny nose syndrome is getting old and I really don't see how a ridiculously small nose can turn a face into a 'fantasy' face.  Makes no sense to me.  It just looks ugly IMO.

You know, if people weren't buying shit like this in massive numbers, vendors would have incentive to sell other types of stuff.  Tiny flat noses, needle chins, cheekbones like baseballs: this is what a lot of people buy, sadly.  It's not like it takes less work to make Poser people look more normal, and it's not like buyers are willing to pay higher prices to compensate for lower volume.

Quote - Quote "Poser is fantasy!  In fantasy, all the good guys are physically perfect in every way!  Just look at the art of the late great Frank Frazetta!
dph"

Tell that to Quasimodo lol

Actually I would love a well made Quasimodo/hunch back character or even good morphs and textures to render my own with. I would love more realistic older folks hair and textures and body morphs and clothes too for that matter. I do not know how to model or even create decent body morphs (I wish I could but can't seem to wrap my old brain around the process despite years of trying!) and texturing done properly is well beyond my skill set so if something is out there I will buy it as needed.

There have been a few fat and old characters made available but they all seem a bit lame as if there was a lack of passion in creating them or not as much interest. I can see the lack of interest because the concern in this community is that they will probably NOT get the proper compensation in return for their effort in creating their figures when everyone seems to want those perfect "fantasy" rehashes. But that is what this is what Poser is all about.

Good comments!

 But the fact is that the Tiny Nose - Big lips is apparently what sells.

I once tried (OK it was aeons ago, back when it was V2/M2) to make "real people" - my Gertrude and Frank characters were.. well ordinary L And far from any model material (I have a render depicting them both HERE (opens in a new window)) 

Problem is.. they never sold any. Well yes a few, and curiously, Frank sold a lot better than Gertrude. Seems people can deal with "realistic" males, but prefer their females to be more ... fantasy (uh-oh that doesn't bode well for my upcoming product btw L)

So it's a conundrum. Much like the repeated requests for "ordinary clothes" - people do want it - but not enough. Or not enough people want it or whatever. Bottom line is: "Everyday" stuff sells nada. And given the time and effort it take to create a proper character with morphs and textures and all these days... well.. if it doesn't sell, it's not worth the effort, no matter how much the vocal minority might want them :)

And don't get me wrong. 95% of my renders consists of "ugly" people, because those are what interests me. I want real looking, fat/thin, ugly, assymetrically looking folks in my renders. Perfection is BORING. So I mostly make my own character morphs these days (OK yes.. I morph anything into Severus Snape... ) and I like that. 

For my latest thing I used the 3D Celebrity Lola for V4 btw. A proper OLDER lady, with proper textures AND jowls ect. I then went and made her into an older, OVERWEIGHT woman L but .. well that was because it suited the product. (and I hope I'm not accused of advertizing anything.. I won't post a link here for that very reason, although I'll be happy to do so in a PM, should anyone be interested) 

I would love to see that link.   And lots of people do post links to their stuff.

Quote -  But the fact is that the Tiny Nose - Big lips is apparently what sells.

I once tried (OK it was aeons ago, back when it was V2/M2) to make "real people" - my Gertrude and Frank characters were.. well ordinary L And far from any model material (I have a render depicting them both HERE (opens in a new window)) 

Problem is.. they never sold any. Well yes a few, and curiously, Frank sold a lot better than Gertrude. Seems people can deal with "realistic" males, but prefer their females to be more ... fantasy (uh-oh that doesn't bode well for my upcoming product btw L)

So it's a conundrum. Much like the repeated requests for "ordinary clothes" - people do want it - but not enough. Or not enough people want it or whatever. Bottom line is: "Everyday" stuff sells nada. And given the time and effort it take to create a proper character with morphs and textures and all these days... well.. if it doesn't sell, it's not worth the effort, no matter how much the vocal minority might want them :)

And don't get me wrong. 95% of my renders consists of "ugly" people, because those are what interests me. I want real looking, fat/thin, ugly, assymetrically looking folks in my renders. Perfection is BORING. So I mostly make my own character morphs these days (OK yes.. I morph anything into Severus Snape... ) and I like that. 

For my latest thing I used the 3D Celebrity Lola for V4 btw. A proper OLDER lady, with proper textures AND jowls ect. I then went and made her into an older, OVERWEIGHT woman L but .. well that was because it suited the product. (and I hope I'm not accused of advertizing anything.. I won't post a link here for that very reason, although I'll be happy to do so in a PM, should anyone be interested) 

It's really basic math:  It takes X amount of hours of rather difficult intellectual work to make a given Poser product.  You will make Y money from sales.  X will not vary based on how the product looks, but Y will vary a great deal.  It boils down to "I like to make money for hard work" or "I do not like to make money for hard work".

On a related note: People's enthusiasm in forums and over free items has zero to do with what they're actually willing to BUY.  This is a major reason why almost no vendors will actually bother to ask publicly "what do you want me to make?"

It ain't just tiny noses and big fat lips that sell, though.  I've done reasonably well with my characters, none of which fell into the above categories.

Having said that, I very much doubt I'll make human characters any more.  There's no fun and very little reward in a flooded market.
 

I think I found them at Renderosity.

Quote -  Hey Roman Girl-

 Good questions! Faces are asymmetrical- as LaurieA points out. But there are plenty of dials to fiddle with to remove perfection,

I always tweak-unless they already look like a character- Angel(ina) is great-except her lips are far larger than Angelina's- I looked at several pics to compare. Where did you find Brad and Hermione? Most curious!

Quote - ...There's no fun and very little reward in a flooded market.

And flooded it is.

Laurie