While I will still be visiting the forums I will no longer be buying from the store until the readme's from the vendors match the tos from the store. I feel very strongly about this. This store is not new, and there is no excuse for vendors to be able to slip in non commercial use or stipulations on commercial use...sorry not acceptable.
Not sure how long this will stay since it seems to be a sore spot here.
Have a great day.

Thanks for letting me know!

As a consumer, I always look at the online readme for any product I am interested in.

As a vendor, I make certain my Readme files follow the TOS and that there aren't any untoward stipulations.

I understand your feelings, Marque, and hope something can be done about this.

I thought that renderosity is only a broker and that the merchants have the rights and final say as to how their goods can be used.

Quote - I thought that renderosity is only a broker and that the merchants have the rights and final say as to how their goods can be used.

True but as the final "Broker", Renderosity has the final say one what does and does not go into their market.

But Renderosity also has its own EULA for items purchased here.  A salient passage:

The Buyer may copyright any newly created rendered images using the purchased, original Product files, provided the original Product files remain protected from being extracted from the derivative work. The Buyer may use the Product in rendered images for any personal or commercial projects, as long as the Artist's work is protected from extraction and the Buyer has not violated any other terms of the License. The Buyer may backup copies on hard drives, CD or DVD of the zip file for personal archival purposes only. The Buyer may not store files online. For Merchant Resource Products, additional permissions or limitations of rights will be specified in of each Product's readme file. Software programs and utilities may have an additional license from the company or vendor that developed it. The Buyer agrees to be bound by the additional permissions and limitations contained in the Merchant Resource Products and Software Programs or utilities. For any product to be considered a Merchant Resource, Software program or utility, it must be clearly stated as such. [emphasis mine]

Note: I'm no lawyer.  You should contact Marketplace Support with your concerns.

PS. If you are really not going to buy anything else here, that means you can afford to buy the next round.

I agree with you, vendors should follow store policy in this. As far as I recall, when a seller submits a product here, they confirm that they do agree with and will adhere to the store policy. Rendo should indeed make sure the readme's are in agreement with that and no extra clauses are in there.

For what it's worth, you can safely buy my stuff ;-)

So why does renderosity allow those products to remain up if the vendor isn't in compliance with the store?

That's the tricky question..... it could be overlooked, since there are many product submissions each day. It could be something else that only Rendo can answer.

Well, I know of at least three items in the store that MIGHT, repeat MIGHT, get your butt
sued if you used them commercially. I'm not sure if vehicles such as sci fi ships, and or
vehicles can be copyrighted, but I have seen at least three in the store that I've seen on TV
series and/or the movies. You'd need a non-commercial clause for those.

Eric

Well that's nice here I thought there was protection under Rendo's so -called EULA. Doesn't bode well for those that use items purchased here in commercial ventures without now going through all the readmes to make sure they will not be sued.

Marque with all due respect, did you email the store team? with your concerns about the readmes? again posting it to the Poser Forum does not bring it to the right people's attention.

 i dont understand the topic.. what is the problem? Sorry Im dense I guess 

Well, it not REALLY a problem, since you CAN access the readme on the product page.
It best to be careful, and do that before you buy. It what I usually do.

Eric

Quote - While I will still be visiting the forums I will no longer be buying from the store until the readme's from the vendors match the tos from the store. I feel very strongly about this. This store is not new, and there is no excuse for vendors to be able to slip in non commercial use or stipulations on commercial use...sorry not acceptable.
Not sure how long this will stay since it seems to be a sore spot here.
Have a great day.

If you have any issues with the the Marketplace you should contact the Marketplace staff at

E-Mail: Store@Renderosity.com
Email Support available 7 days a week.
E-Mails will receive a response within 24hrs.

Bringing this up in the Poser forum will not help fix any problems. :)

Quote - Bringing this up in the Poser forum will not help fix any problems. :)

Maybe not, but it raises the awareness of other customers to the potential problem, and as far as I am aware, this is the second thread started by a different person on the same subject in the past few days. People understandably don't want to find themselves in court over unclear terms of use.
The moderators advice then was to contact the vendor first. Good advice, however if the problem is wider than just one or two sellers then Renderosity should do something to make the terms clearer to buyers and sellers, not rely on individual sellers. (after all, as the  providers of the hosting and transaction side, they get a cut of the money).

Like most users here I read the sites terms and conditions etc.
The gist of which seems to be:
Don't sell or illegally share meshes/ models/ textures created from a product.
Sharing or selling your own artwork created/ rendered using a product is fine.

While for many Poser is a hobby, for many others it is one of the tools of their trade. The majority of products sold here are "drill bits to fit the drill". "I don't mould and cast new drill bits from the original to sell and go into the drill bit manufacturering busines , but if I use the drill bit in my drill as a tool to make furniture or something, I don't expect the drill bit manufacturer to say "you can't sell that chair, you used one of my drill bits to make the holes in the wood!"".

Individual terms and conditions in readme files can be unclear and confusing especially when something can be interpreted in more than one way.

I believe that creators of content that is provided free should have the right to say that it cannot be used commercially. Likewise, content that is created loosely based on something from a tv show or film etc should be fine in most cases, as long as it is provided free and cannot be used for commercial work. (personal use / fan artwork only).

Why anyone would want to pay for a product from here that they can can only use of personal use is beyond me. If the seller insists on putting the non commercial clause in for a paid for item, then it should be made clear in bold letters on the products page and not hidden away in a confusing readme file.
We have content advisory flags in the forum, surely it would be better for vendors and us to have a standard terms of use but possibly with clear usage flags on the products page?

While some threads can be an attack on someone, I don't think that this was the intention or spirit of this subjuct. It was merely to warn other users of the dangers of "not reading the fine print".

We understand that, Darren, we seriously do, but if the intention is to fix the problem, the Poser forum should be the last resort, not the first.  If a merchant is posting a readme that contradicts the EULA, the store staff needs to be notified FIRST, not as an afterthought.  That's the only way it's going to get fixed.  The best we can do is point the store staff to the thread and hope for the best, but, even without a merchant name (PLEASE, no name and shame, guys), all we can do is say "well, I hope they contact the store staff with the merchant name, because ESP is not a requirement of Rendo staff", you know what I mean?  

Readmes ARE checked during the testing process.  Sometimes, things are missed.  Our testers are human and fallible.

I think that what is being asked here is not the correction of any specific instance, but rather a change in policy towards the merchants as a whole.
dph

 Ok, but still, WE DON'T HAVE ANY CONTROL IN THAT.  I don't know how any of us can make that any clearer.  The Poser forum needs to be the LAST stop in trying to figure out MP policies, not the first.  Forum staff are satellite staff; we work from our homes, do not have the luxury of walking down the hall to the MP staff and saying "hey, there's a problem, fix it".  

I don't know what you guys expect from us. It pisses you (collectively) off when we move the threads to the proper forum so proper staff can look at it, and, yet, you won't take the step to contact the proper staff.  It's a Lose/Lose situation.

I think the perception here is that moving these threads to the supposed proper forum is a way of effectively burying them, since nobody ever reads those other forums, whereas everyone except the Renderosity Staff reads this one.
dph

When the power of one customer's opinion isn't sufficient to bring about changes in policy it may be necessary to raise awareness of the issues. Posting in the appropriate forum is not going to accomplish this if very few people visit such a forum.

I consider posts like this (sometimes) a necessary first step in communicating the importance of an issue to the site administration. The second step is of course to bring the issue to the attention of those who make the decisions.

 ...this is a cyclical argument.

I've said, over and over, that if you want to STORE STAFF, contact the store staff.  This is the Poser forum, not the store forum.

I'm locking this thread, as it's not at all productive, as I've repeatedly stated that the way to get things done is to contact store staff.  In future, we will be moving all threads like this to the Marketplace Customer Support Forum, for the proper staff to take over.

Jeni