So I finally bit the bullet and have upgraded to Vue 8 Infinite and truth be told, it's an amazing leap from Vue 7, most notably because it actually works on my Macs. Unfortunately in really heavy scenes I'm starting to have some display issues which more often than not result in the entire machine locking up and/or the display going black. My gut tells me these issues are related to the video card, an ATI Radeon X1900, so I'm looking at replacing it.

I know my options are pretty limited seeing as this is a 1st Gen Mac Pro and some users on the Apple forums suggested I buy a new machine, but that seems a little short sighted at this point. I mean other than the most intensive scenes in Vue, this machine is rock solid, loaded for bear and can do it all without breaking a sweat.

Some card suggestions over the X1900 include a flashed PC version of the ATI Radeon HD 4870 and the NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT, but I'm curious what other early Mac Pro owners/Vue 8 users are running what's working for them (or not working for them).    :)

You have a better card than I do on my old PC.  Vue 8 works great on it using the middle video setting (hardware OpenGL).  Actually, 8.4 works good on it, too.  But Poser importing is broken unless software openGL is used.

Having the same Mac and Video card as you, there aren't many options available. Apple doesn't give us many options for an upgrade. PCI Express 2 will work in PCI Express 1 just not supported by Apple. I finally bit the bullet and bought a ATI Radeon HD 4890 pc card for my Mac. It works great and it supports Open GL 2.1 Shader 4. Vue is much more stable with the newer card. The whole pc card to Mac can seem complicated but it works and can be done. I can post more if your interested. 

Quote - Having the same Mac and Video card as you, there aren't many options available. Apple doesn't give us many options for an upgrade. PCI Express 2 will work in PCI Express 1 just not supported by Apple. I finally bit the bullet and bought a ATI Radeon HD 4890 pc card for my Mac. It works great and it supports Open GL 2.1 Shader 4. Vue is much more stable with the newer card. The whole pc card to Mac can seem complicated but it works and can be done. I can post more if your interested. 

Thanks for the info danway. I've been eyeballing the pre-flashed ones on eBay, though some of the guys on the Apple forums seem to have no issue with doing it themselves and who knows, maybe it's cheaper that way? Was yours an off the shelf PC model or ...?

I bought mine off eBay but what I understand is that it's not flashed. 
I would start here first: http://netkas.org/
I recently used netkas patch and upgraded my OS successfully to 10.6.3 with no problems.
Good luck.

 Hey JC (et al),

Also finally upped my Infinite 5 to Infinite 8.4. Still quite new to the Vue experience.

I'm running it on my MacBook Pro 5,1 with a NVidia GeForce 9400M.
I get the warnings from Vue that my card is not up to snuff and yet I seem to muddle through without much apparent problems. Some of that could be that "I don't know what I'm missing".

Will be interested to hear what you or others arrive at for the solution to a better Mac graphics card.

BTW, I was considering upgrading to Xstream to use with my Lightwave 9.6. I seem to remember you didn't have a good Xstream experience, is that still true? 
Or is there anyone here who has a good experience with Xstream in 8.x who wants to sing its praises (on a Mac)?

thanks,

don

 You can't upgrade the video card on a Macbook Pro. You could turn off some of the options to get the video card to run smoother.

 "turn off" within Vue is what you mean? Yes, it always prompts me with "Your video card sucks, turn off (this and that) so that Vue will run smoother "you Mac-scum" or that's what I seem to hear it say.
lol

I don't know anything about "flashing" a card. I will have to make do with what I have for the moment.

thanks,

don

 so are there not any mac video cards on the market that are made for mac that will allow vue 8 to work to it's full potential?

Hi Esther

 Apple sells some for the current and previous gen MacPro's.

 Apple prides itself on the absence of internal incompatibilities with it;s hardware and OS. IE, it always works. And people are discovering that some of the modern cards- DO work in the first Gen Xeon

Since the hardware is fully compatible with PC boards- many people have figured out ways to use then in their intel macs. Apple does not guarantee these boards- but many people are delighted with them.

 thanks.  that's a good explanation.
Well I feel safer browsing the apple site - will go window shopping now.
see ya.

 this might help on selecting a PC card for MacPro, good explanation too:

The Golden Guide
to Flashing Graphic Cards for Mac

http://www.groths.org/?page_id=74

Looks like the Sapphire 4890 goes for about $200, would this card work for Vue 8 without any problems?

I'm interested in this topic too... just downloaded Vue8 demo to give it a try... launched it, added a generic map, went to add clouds and the program crashed.  Pretty bad to crash within the first minute of trying it out imo.
MacPro 2 dual 3.0 GHz, 4 GB Ram, ATI x1900.

$699!!! That is just robbery.

  Did you get your MacPro recently?

I have been looking at that card myself

Quote -  hey, our exchange rate in australia is quite good at the moment  compared to past years.  we are 93 cents for every US dollar.
However look at the price difference between the apple store in america and here!!!!
The one on your left is the US price.  And the right is ours which should actually be 380!
hope you can see the image - I may have shrunk it too much.

Limiting the options seems really dumb on Apple's part-on the other hand they (besides wanting to charge more) probably want to keep that 100% compatibility reputation intact- and with so many versions out....

  I might wait until they decide to offer a faster card- THEN get the 4870 for less-rather than risking it.

 I don't know - that card is an updgrade thing for older macpro - well that one in the pic is, and there is a niche market which they might always try and tap, because the newer cards won't probably work on old macpros

Hi Esther

 I have the current "Nehalem: MacPro.The 4870 will work in the current MacPro.

I hear Apple is going to release a new MacPro  soon- with- I assume a better video card. So I hope they offer something better than the 4870 as the $ 349 upgrade- and drop the price on the 4870.

I had planned on getting a 2007 or 2008 MacPro - upping from the twin G5 2Ghz tower-but then found a great deal on a used Quad Nehalem. (early 2009)

 Aren't you 64 bit then? have you looked in your about this macpart.  I heard some were set on 32 by default but you could change it to 64 by holding certain keys down on restart.  
But I am hanging out for the newest next one.  what have you heard?  When is it coming out? I keep checking macrumors but can't find anything new about new macpros.
Love esther

I can tell you first hand since I use a Mac Pro 2008 model and duel-boot my OS. If you want to take a chance, sure you can try to do it yourself and flash a card as pointed out. However, I do know you can often run into trouble and most places won't provide any sort of refund if it does not work out for you. Worse, if you really mess something up during the flash or there was something you did not know about there goes your money out the window.

Personally, we all know if buying an Apple product we are buying into a closed system design and they charge more for the same parts a PC user can get. Short answer I would suggest is to buy straight from Apple and get either the nVidia 8800GT like I have or I think the 280 model may work as well which is a little better.

I have no major crashing issues with my current setup. Yes, it is still not a good as Vue 8.x 64 bit Windows, but it does work. Once the 64 bit Cocoa version comes out, you should see some serious benefits just like the Windows 64 bit version. When that happens, you may want a current Mac Pro and get everything all at once along with Apple Care.

 I just checked and the Nvidia 7300 GT "works in the first Gen MacPro Only"- oddly enough-it works fine in my Early 2009 MacPro Nehalem!

  It was put in by the original owner.

 that's my card that came with my macpro but vue gives me messages that it can't use everything because of the card.

Quote -  that's my card that came with my macpro but vue gives me messages that it can't use everything because of the card.

  As it turns out my great deal on a used MacPro was not that great- it is in fact a MacPro 1.1 2.66 X 4 Xeon Quad-not the Nehalem Quad. So I am in the same situation Esther. I think I will try a flashed 4890 off of Ebay....

The owner sold it as a 1 year old MacPro. Of course as a dedicated PC guy-who only used it to run Windows- he might have been sold it as such... I paid a reasonable price for what I got- $1000 US with 7 G RAM, and 2 TB of internal Hard Drives.

 oh that is disappointing. That means you cannot run it in 64 bit.  I will be interested to know if the card helps, but I am hoping that a new, fantastic mac pro will be out soon, and i'm working as many shifts as I can get to save up for it.
well at least you got plenty of HD space to store your nice vue scenes.  when you do get a new one one day, maybe you can keep the old one and network them together for rendering etc.
Love esther

 Thanks Esther

 It is considerably faster than my G5 dual 2Ghz tower- so it is still an upgrade-but I would rather have saved a bit longer and bought a real MacPro Early 2009. I really wanted to run Vue 8-which is MacIntel only-so I had been looking at iMacs and Minis- so at least I did better than the mini. :-)

  The new 27 inch iMac is gorgeous! But I am biased against all-in-ones. I did buy a 23 inch Samsung LED so at least it has the same gorgeous display.

   The good news is that they ARE going to debut a  new MacPro in the next few months- at least according to MacRumours.

 I too have the same reservations about imac.  My dad has an imac and is really happy with it though.
So do you need any bits for your G5?  I have an old broken G5 sitting in my laundry.
Yes, I've been keenly watching the macrumors site, but it has mostly been iphone and ipad orientated so far.
WEll I still haven't saved enough anyway.
Love esther

Hey Esther

Thanks! But my old G5 is still going strong- although I might have to replace the Hard Drive soon as it seems quite noisy.   iPad and iPhone- yep! That's the thing about Apple- everything is about "i".

 The 27 inch iMac is almost as expensive as a New MacPro- and I think the RAM is much more expensive-and not so easy to install

  BTW: I read some of your story- good writing! A great character there in Angie.

 thanks Eric.  My arms dealer, Panko has been very helpful too.  I think the story is far more suited to a comic than it is to a novel.  I originally wrote it in episodes, so I am busting to start my comic, but there are software issues.
Apparently e-on aren't supporting poser pro 2010 at this stage because they think the poser SDK is buggy.  I know there are ways around the problem (eg creating HDRI scenes and using them in poser on a dome), but I need quick and easy to make 1000s of comic panels, and I also want to be able to import tooned people into vue like i used to do with earlier versions of poser and vue.
Love esther

Hi Esther

  Your arms dealer! Love it!! I agree on the comic btw.

 As far as being buggy- at least as a user- PoserPro2010 has crashed once in many hours of use.

 I have had success using  8.1 40290 and setting my PoserConfig to Poser 6 (which is my other version). I was able to open V4.2 saved in PoserPro2010 without even turning off hardware OpenGL.

 I am just about to try it again. At least for static scenes.I am about to try again.

  So we cannot run Vue 64bit? That is a shame.,....

 I'm going to need the conform to scale feature to import correctly because I decided I want Freak 4 as one of my characters and that is the only way to make clothes work on him easily in poser.   Importing with conform to scale only works reasonably well in vue 8.5 but I really need those poser shaders and that is the problem.  some work, some don't.
I am certain 64 bit vue for mac will come.  they have said they really are working on it in the eon forum.
Love esther

 Hi Esther

I did some research- we should be able to run 64 bit apps after all- what we can't do is run the whole OS in 64 bit mode- I think! Something about Apple not creating a 64 bit "Kext" for the old MacPro. But hackers might get around that. I have an ORIGINAL G3 233 that I upped to a G4 466. Apple decided that OSX 10.3 SHOULD not be installed on computers without built in USB. So a hacker wrote a program that turned off the code in the installer that looked for built in USB. I installed 10.3 and 10.4- no problems

   Anyway-I keeo reading that the Radeon 4870 which Apple does not sell for the MacPro1.1 works GREAT= in OS 10.5.8 and 10.6.3  Hmnnnnn......

 
  Lucky me! And Esther to I hope! VueInf 8.5 Mac improved my OpenGL Vue performance signficantly! I can actually SEE V4 as a shaded figure in my Main View- and move her away and closer to the camera without her vanishing, This happened even in wireframe view with 8.1-8.4

   MacIntelPro 1.1, GeForce 7300GT 256 Quad Xeon 2.66 7 G RAM

 yes, that problem is gone, but other problems to do with poser pro 2010 import are still here.

Quote -  yes, that problem is gone, but other problems to do with poser pro 2010 import are still here.

Hi Esther

 What problems are you having? I can morph, texture and pose with PoserPro2010, and open the PZ3. I have turned off external Morph targets- so I have no PMD files and consequently all the data is in the PZ3-so they are large- 100 Megabytes in some cases

It works for me-but I do not leave on the Poser Animation within Vue or Poser Shader Tree options. I find that 8.5 does a better job with the textures. I did run an animation created in Poser within view-but without the option to adjust the poses within Vue.

   I set my Poser Config to Poser 6 btw (not having 7 or 8)

 well I scaled a figure smaller and conformed the clothes to scale but when I import into poser pro the clothes don't look conformed anymore.
Some pz3s import fine but this one doesn't.  maybe because they are not stock figures.  they are some bears from daz.

Another problem. I had a scene with some ecos.  and I duplicated (copied pasted) one of the cubes, and as soon as I pasted it into the scene all my previous population disappeared.

 I am confused- you scaled in Vue and imported it into PoserPro2010? I assume you meant the opposite. When I import clothed figures into Vue for my FDVIAT (Fully Dressed Vicky in a Temple) renders- I select V4 AND the clothes so I can rescale them at the same time-to the same degree.

  As far as the Eco problem goes- does the SAME scene work-if you open the same scene in a previous version?

   BTW: I confess- I have never DONE an FDVIAT render- only SCVIAT (Scantily Clad Vicky in a Temple) renders. Usually in one of those PRACTICAL armored Bikini  things. :-)

 hehe yes me too a SCVIAT
yes i meant the opposite. conform to scale is useful for freak 4 clothes as he has lots of scaling apart from height in him.  It's a new dials in the property part of poser pro 2010 but I  am not sure if this is causing the problem or not.  one pz3 renders fine when i don't keep poser shaders (but crashes when i do)  the other doesn't import properly with clothes conformed even with no poser shaders.
oh and one scene - with no poser stuff, but an older scene gets a grey rectangle over part of my screen after i render, that stays around.
Love esther

  Hi Esther

  I suppose nothing that I have tried to import could not have been achieved with a Poser 6 PZ3
I tried to import Allyson from PPro2010 and all I saw was a weird spray of polys-with the figure obscured within.

  Hopefully- they will catch up at some point!

 lucky we really don't need allyson for anything hey.
But yes, I think e-on must have only tested with standard poser figures. I am on their maintenance plan and I did send a tech report in offering to send them the file but as far as I know I never heard back from them.  I may have missed it as I get a lot of email.
Love esther

 this was an e-on reply in april for one of my problems

"We are currently working out the problems with Poser Pro with SM and will hopefully have a fix soon. I will forward this to development."

For anyone that is interested, a couple of weeks ago I upgraded the card in my 1,1 Mac Pro to the Radeon 4870 by way of the Apple upgrade version and (knocks on wood) it appears to have fixed all of my problems. I haven't had any of the total system freezes or the screen going black as was previously a frequent occurrence in the graphics heavy apps with the X1900. It also appears that this card on the Mac is fully supporting OpenGL 2.1 (shader 4) as Vue 8.5 accepts the setting and the live previews are way better now - can't believe I lived without this for so long as it's so much cooler and true to life or whatever one would call it in virtual space.

 have you got carrara pro 8? I'd be interested to know if the card helps that as well.

Quote -  have you got carrara pro 8? I'd be interested to know if the card helps that as well.

Unfortunately no, I'm not a Carrara user, though do continue to be impressed with the results people get with that app.

 eric did u get a new card yet?

 I ordered same card today.

 I got my card and installed it and vue is very much better!!!!
what should I do with the old card?

Quote -  I got my card and installed it and vue is very much better!!!!
what should I do with the old card?

Assuming it's still functional, I'd eBay it as it's still a very nice card for most other applications :)

 so I can't just put it into one of the empty slots then - or doesn't that achieve anything/
Love esther

 I bought this from ebay "flashed PC version of the ATI Radeon HD 4870"
It arrived very quickly.  Installed and working and it does very much improve working in vue.  before I would drag the camera and nothing would happen. Now it's responsive and fast to work in vue.  I highly recommend this.  BTW I have a very early macpro
Love esther