Quote - odf, I'm still experiencing symmetry problems with the 125 hip2 actor, and this time it seems more serious. Try this, rotate both thighs forward to Bend -90°, then yScale the hip2 to 110%. See image above.

Weirdness! It's funny that this only happens with scaling. I guess the first thing to try (which will be easy in 126) is to disable the JCMs and see if we see the same effect. Also, I can't help but wonder whether Antonia is in some way special (as in broken) or if this kind of thing happens with all figures.

Quote -
I made one more substantial change so far, namely at the hip2 xrot (Bend), which in Antonia 125 involves a pretty severe deformation of the buttocks that I found intolerable. As a result, that bend now gets a bit ugly at larger values, but is, I think, more usable at realistic values. A new pose I made using the improved hip2 bend can be seen in my latest Gallery submission, entitled Skating Dream.

I still have to do some more of those small fixes I mentioned above on the neck and collars, and maybe check the fingers once more. After that, it's time to get to work on that CR2 checker script. After that, many new poses...

I hope it won't affect the shape of the hip, hip2 and thighs because I'm going to make another new outfit for Antonia, of course, it will be free too.

Quote - > Quote -

I made one more substantial change so far, namely at the hip2 xrot (Bend), which in Antonia 125 involves a pretty severe deformation of the buttocks that I found intolerable. As a result, that bend now gets a bit ugly at larger values, but is, I think, more usable at realistic values. A new pose I made using the improved hip2 bend can be seen in my latest Gallery submission, entitled Skating Dream.

I still have to do some more of those small fixes I mentioned above on the neck and collars, and maybe check the fingers once more. After that, it's time to get to work on that CR2 checker script. After that, many new poses...

I hope it won't affect the shape of the hip, hip2 and thighs because I'm going to make another new outfit for Antonia, of course, it will be free too.

I will have a look at your beach volleyball outfit shortly to see if this creates any problems. Hopefully, all that's needed is to change the joint parameters on the garment to reflect the changes in Antonia, which can be done easily with a pose file.

The only changes that will have a visible impact, I think, are in the hip2 bend and the forward and back movements of the collars. The rest are very small modifications to fix boundary issues for extreme twists and such.

Oh, there's also a new JCM in effect when the thigh is bent inward. If that creates poke-through, a quick solution would be to just disable that JCM. But it should also be quite easy to add a matching JCM to the pants. I might give that a go, seeing as I need some practice with the new morph loader.

I'll post a link to the Antonia's latest updated CR2 shortly, so you can use that to fit your new outfit to. The good news is that this is going to be the very last change of this kind. I will now go and hunt down unwanted asymmetries, and after that Antonia's bends will be frozen in time.

As the purpose of the smoothScale channels is to improve the appearance of the actor when its neighbour is scaled, and as they seem to be having the opposite effect in this case, perhaps the smoothScale channels relating to the thighs should be deleted from the hip2.

Quote -
As the purpose of the smoothScale channels is to improve the appearance of the actor when its neighbour is scaled, and as they seem to be having the opposite effect in this case, perhaps the smoothScale channels relating to the thighs should be deleted from the hip2.

I'll consider that. Thanks for hunting down that bug!

Did you remove the corresponding channels in the thigh actors, as well, or only the ones in hip?

Only the ones in hip2, and only the smooth channels that relate to the thighs, not the one that relates to the hip.

Quote - Also, I can't help but wonder whether Antonia is in some way special (as in broken) or if this kind of thing happens with all figures.

I did a quick test with Posette, thighs bent -90, hip yScaled 150. There is no apparent asymmetry in Posette in this regard. The only difference between the Antonia rig and the Posette rig that stands out to my eye is the order of the channels. All the smoothScale channels are adjacent in Posette's hip.

I have discovered that the channel order does seem to be significant. Moving the lThigh_smooY down so it sits on top of the rThigh_smooY channel seems to cure the asymmetry, though I have not examined this in detail to confirm exact symmetry. Strangely, moving the rThigh_smooY up so it is directly underneath the lThigh_smooY did not cure the asymmetry.

Tentative ******rule of thumb,  place the smothScale channels directly above the OffsetA channels.

The symmetry problems came to light because I was trying to make some ERC based scaling for Antonia. This has proved more difficult than I had expected. The scaling ERC is in itself fairly trivial, but there are various issues to do with the JPs that arise due to scaling, and which need to be dealt with if the scaling is ever to be a practical concern. It's not just the smoothScale channels. The 'joint' channels each seem to have their own private joint centre specified in the 'center' line of the channel, and whilst the origins of the actors move appropriately with the scaling, these private joint centers do not, they remain in the original location. I feel that I am making slow progress with the ERC scaling, but have had to make some additional JCM, and some JP poses to correct problems.

Getting back to the subject of smoothScale. The neck is another place where I am finding the smoothScale less than helpful, see image above. For my ERC scaling pose I'm going to see if I can disable all the smoothScaling by setting the 'otherActor' to NULL.

Calling cage.
The neck is the most problematic actor I have come across so far. Cage, I understand that you have been working on some new JPs for a longer neck, and would appreciate any advice you may have on that subject.

Quote - Calling cage.
The neck is the most problematic actor I have come across so far. Cage, I understand that you have been working on some new JPs for a longer neck, and would appreciate any advice you may have on that subject.

I haven't worked on the neck scaling for several weeks now, since odf had considered making official changes for Antonia 126.  I did post a couple of JP-insertion poses, containing my best efforts to reconcile neck scaling with the joints, to the Developers' Site.  Those joint settings do help a bit, at least until the 125 head and neck JCMs are considered.  But the results are also a bit ugly on the mesh level.

You are brave, to be trying to work with Poser scaling.  :lol:  The way the falloff zones handle is strange and frustrating.  IIRC, the outer sphere tends to handle as though it were an exclusion zone or something.  :unsure:

lesbentley: I'm exciting to see you making some progress with the scaling. That issue had been bugging me for a long, long time. If the center points for the individual channels don't move with the scaling, that would explain a lot.

I think Antonia is a great figure. She renders well. I am making some free clothing for her.

Quote - If the center points for the individual channels don't move with the scaling, that would explain a lot.

I think that is the case, though I can't absolutely swear to it yet. It's something I only discovered in the past couple of weeks whilst playing around with a test rig.

Well, I've just heard in another thread that Antonia's nose is too ugly, which apparently makes her completely worthless. So I'm terminating the whole project effective immediately. Thanks guys! It was a lot of fun working with you.

(Do you think I should write a virus that will erase any traces of Antonia on every computer of the world, or would that be excessive?)

Are you serious? Shes a lovely female model.

Well she's not a naked Alien so I doubt if I'll find much use for her. :tt2:

I'm dead serious. That nose is intolerable. What was I thinking?

(Kidding! :lol:)

Quote - Well she's not a naked Alien so I doubt if I'll find much use for her. :tt2:

Maybe she could dress up as a naked alien for you, if you asked nicely? :laugh:

If you are seriously ditching the project. I will respectfully uninstall her.

Quote - If you are seriously ditching the project. I will respectfully uninstall her.

No, don't do it. I was of course joking.

Oh good. Whew.

Well the idea of using a pose file to set the otherActor to point at NULL did not work. It seems to be a very rare example of something that is not able to be changed via a pose file. Can anyone think of another way to disable the smoothScale channels?

Antonia open sorce so you can do what ever you want.

You could morph Antonia to look just like Vicky.

Egnor morrorons that rag Antonia.

Any time any one rags my meshes I ask them to show me there charaters,So far not one has.

Is Antonia topolagy perment ?

I would seriously have Antonai be able to use Vickys hair , close , textures ect ect.

about the only Charaters Venders ever make stuff for is Vicky ,Mike needs a lot

One thing I have noticed about the Poser/Daz/Vue etc community, is that you can find so much content for certain figures. LIke Vicky 4 for instance.

Need hair?
Shoes?
Clothing?
etc?

Search and you will find an abundance of it.

Did someone do a catsuit for Antonia? I seem to remember that someone did, and posted in this thread, but it was a long time ago, and I can't find the post now.

 Wasn't it Drakelot that did a Scifi body suit for Antonia about seventy pages ago or so?  My memory is shot so take that with a grain of salt. :laugh:

Yes by Drakelot, but it has been removed from the locker. Perhaps it may still be found at the developers site.

Thanks folks. The body suit was by DRAKELOT, in this post. Unfortunately the file seems to have been removed.

Cage's bat girl suit should do the job with a little tweaking, I'll use that.

With my ERC scaling, I have only just gotten round to looking at the hands and fingers. Fortunately the fingers seem to be behaving reasonably well, but the same can't be said for the hand itself, which looks like it may be a problem.

Maybe that's why some figures have poses or dials for longer/shorter arms, legs, etc. These always struck me as a bit superfluous, but if the joint centres need to be moved to suit the scale, there may be a point to have them. 

Quote - Well, I've just heard in another thread that Antonia's nose is too ugly, which apparently makes her completely worthless. So I'm terminating the whole project effective immediately. Thanks guys! It was a lot of fun working with you.

That was only one post.  :sad:  Antonia's nose is fine.  Those of us who need eensy-teensy noses for any reason should be learning to use magnets or other tools to modify the base shape.  As you noted later in that thread.  (EDIT:  And you're joking, of course, and Cage takes it seriously, of course.    Dang.  Gotta stop doing that.)

Quote - Thanks folks. The body suit was by DRAKELOT, in this post. Unfortunately the file seems to have been removed.

Cage's bat girl suit should do the job with a little tweaking, I'll use that.

I think it turned out that Drakelot's bodysuit didn't have the necessary JCMs, or something.  :unsure:  It's a bummer that it's gone.  It was a nice model.

What are you trying to do, with a bodysuit?  The one I made is nothing special, just a basic hack like the simple shorts I made previously.  I just trimmed unnecessary body parts from a duplicate Antonia .cr2, then created some basic smoothing morphs for parts of the torso.

Hmm.  Speaking of Antonia clothing and JCMs, I've been wondering about Antonia WW2 support.  Can Wardrobe Wizard successfully port the joint morphs for a garment?  Because those are essential for Antonia, possibly moreso than for any other Poser figure. 

Just to prove how freaken insain i am
I am going to atempt to make morphs for some D//S ,Poser Charaters.

I really need to know if Antonia topology is permanent ?

Quote - What are you trying to do, with a bodysuit?

Nothing specific, I just felt that a bodysuit was one of those must have items that any woman should have in her wardrobe, and I didn't want Antonia to think I was stingy for not getting her one.
 

But you of all people, lesbently, know that all you have to do is cut the hands, feet, neck and head off the Antonia mesh and scale it up a dad. Instant catsuit. Just texture as needed.

Quote - Well, I've just heard in another thread that Antonia's nose is too ugly, which apparently makes her completely worthless. So I'm terminating the whole project effective immediately. Thanks guys! It was a lot of fun working with you.

(Do you think I should write a virus that will erase any traces of Antonia on every computer of the world, or would that be excessive?)

Antonia nose is too big, her legs are too long and her eyes looks crying. Any derogation from Victoria is intolerable ;)
I see no difference between Vicky 1, 2, 3 and 4. I do not know why but all Victorias are still most popular figures. Antonia is quite different Would be nice to see some renders without Victoria. I think Antonia needs clothes and morphs atm.
I have some trouble with making inj morps but I'll try to add some soon.
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/1435/antonia1.jpg
http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/8529/antonia2.jpg
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/7207/antonia3.jpg
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/9449/antonia4.jpg
http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/448/antonia5.jpg

Quote - Nothing specific, I just felt that a bodysuit was one of those must have items that any woman should have in her wardrobe, and I didn't want Antonia to think I was stingy for not getting her one.

I've been thinking of trying to merge the modified hip2 from the simple shorts into the Antonia base geometry, in hopes of making an improved bodysuit.  The main problem with the method I've used for Batgirl is that the thigh JCMs still create some noise in the smoothed genitals, leading to that sort of cameltoe effect.

All this winking makes me nervous.  :scared:

Quote -
I really need to know if Antonia topology is permanent ?

The body topology is permanent. The face, almost certainly (I'd say with 99% probability).

Thanks for the info ODF

lesbentley
not that vicky bends well to start with but if ya scale / morph her ,dose not help the bends.

drapak12
it's just how it is.
Vicky n Mike is and allways has been and always will be the reigning monarch of 3D.

Booah, did it from Page 1 of this thread to here.
Started reading after downloading Antonia-0.9.125.zip and having a first look
(I was lost when saw how Antonia is bending, man there is cold  blow for V4 on its way)
Just could not stop reading. But it was worth it !!!! Im off my socks. Antonia rocks.
Nearby i downloaded the stuff  and builded my Antonia Runtime.

Anywhere in the beginnig , sombody said he uploaded 50 hairfits for Antonia to
the developer page. Could they be mad public ?

Very very  much thanks to all that wonderful people involved in this for giving that freestuff .

BB the story of python generated  eyes; a plesure to read, Just to say WOW, awesome.
When are your going to create a complete human figure mesh or maybe a complete figure with perfect joints with a python script :)

Quote - Booah, did it from Page 1 of this thread to here.
Anywhere in the beginnig , sombody said he uploaded 50 hairfits for Antonia to
the developer page. Could they be mad public ?

Maybe this one:
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/freestuff/details.php?item_id=59872

Well again thinking about figure mesh cration via (python) scripts.
I saw a lot of comparions of Antonia with other figures (e.g. one said the breast are to high ) in this thread. Another person laid a raster with definiton points based on real women over antonia and said she's perfect. So there exists defintion data points for lets say the "perfect" real womens body, that could be translated to 3D Space. Like there existed real data for BBs eye creation. Without this data you had to make guessings.

Thinking forward in 3D space one could define this as basic coordinates.
e.g. where starts the neck, head, hips, shoulder and so on.
We have this basic defintion points, so maybe (i thay this because my math knowledge about that is very limited) the rest could be done with mathmatics going stepwise to details.
(Like the process of manully creating a mesh, you start with simple structures and ad detail step by step)
Well BB has to clear wether this would be possible or not. (And of course this would be much more complex then the eyes)

If it would work, imagine the possibilities.
If my understandig was right, bb said its easy for him to create morphs for his script generated eyes. Changing some parameters, generate the obj and save it as morphtarget.
So lets say we have object of "perfect body" generated.
No we change some parameters and get all the morphs we want easy:
skinny, amazone, pregnant, voloptous ...... This would be nearly endless.

If this would be possible, how about to derive some basic clothes from our mesh
and the morphs also via script.

And the next step would be  perfect joints generated by script.
Well you made a mesh and grouped it, no its time to get bones done.
There are some possibilties and tools helping with this.
Finally we  have the bones  and our  resulting .cr2.

Now we start testing the bendings of our new figure and discover that not all joints
akt like we want it. Why  ? because the programm created the joints, didnt have the correct rules to create them. When we edit Joints, we change rules how the joints has to behave.
So Joints are following mathmatic rules.

If we could define how bends should work in the mesh, we could express this as a rule, and maybe could calculate the jointsettings from this rule.

Well i get to my limits with my english here. Not sure that people will understand
what i really mean.

Impossible ? maybe.
If somebody would have told me, "hey i just generated a percfect .obj mesh for eyes with a python script", before BB showed us that IT IS  possible, i would have hardly believed it.

So have nice day
xuu4u

Quote - > Quote - Booah, did it from Page 1 of this thread to here.

Anywhere in the beginnig , sombody said he uploaded 50 hairfits for Antonia to
the developer page. Could they be mad public ?

Maybe this one:
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/freestuff/details.php?item_id=59872

No, there was definitly speaking of "50 Hairfits". The above tool from Jules, i got it already

Quote -
Antonia nose is too big, her legs are too long and her eyes looks crying.

And what about that fat butt? Just like a real teenager, LOL! Give her a texture with a little acne and she will be happily disqualifying herself ever after.

I like her just the way she is. The long legs only became apparent when trying to match poses of real figures, and easily fixed.

Quote - Anywhere in the beginnig , sombody said he uploaded 50 hairfits for Antonia to
the developer page. Could they be mad public ?

Yeah that was me, just over 50 hairfits, I also had some fits for BlackHearted's Black Eyes, but both were removed for some reason so I didn't bother re-uploading them. I'll look for somewhere else to upload them this weekend if you guys still want them. But note, the fits were for an older version of Antonia, I think around 126, so I don't know yet if they will fit the latest Antonia.

@tlc: that can't be right. Version 126 isn't even released yet. :lol:

The hair should still fit, though, no matter when you did it. The eyes, not so much. Antonia's eyeballs shrank quite a bit.

I would have a question on antonia too.
Have been a bit fooling around with 125A.
It appears to me that despite I export her welded, some body parts get disconnected, for example the head comes of the neck, and the hand is disconnected from the arm. Is this intended or a Poser problem? Thanks :)

I made a small utility package (see Image above) for Antonia and asked her myself
how its possible to upload to her page.