I think someone needs to change the "It's the Lowest Cost Way to Learn 3D" bit, because Poser Debut, with a price tag, is not the lowest cost 3D entry program.

That claim belongs to DAZ Studio, the basic version of which is still free. Sure, the add-on cost may be up around the the price of Poser8/Pro 2010, but you can still get a functioning version without paying a dime.

One thing, probably all of the folks that have posted here already have Poser and have had it for several years -- Debut really doesn't apply to them. 

Saying that, there probably are 1000's of folks here that do not have Poser anything and gathering research on Poser before plunging in.  SmithMicro offers a 30 day trial period for Debut (money refunded within 30 days).  For the price, "free for 30 days" folks can take the dive into the world of Poser--its similiar to Photoshop Elements for folks that may want Daddy someday -- and one gigabytes of free stuff is pretty good. 

I spent several months  lurking here before purchasing.  Jan

Quote -   SmithMicro offers a 30 day trial period for Debut (money refunded within 30 days).  For the price, "free for 30 days" folks can take the dive into the world of Pose

But within that 30 days any complete noobie will have spent money and learned nothing of "3D character posing and rendering" that he will need in the future, particularly rendering

its amazing and ironic that nearly EVERYTHING that people have argued made poser a better value for the money , than Daz Studio,  been stripped from "Debut"

Dynamic Cloth/Hair- NO

Hierarchy editor--NO...Why not??
Rigging --NO
python/ Wardrobe wizard --NO

64 bit  windows/OSX --NO

Manual control over firefly  --NO

Faceroom --NO

Facebook® image export - yes but  ..what it this?? Facebook has their own  image format now.??
 
and does this version not pretty much Exclude the use of  everything  Generous Innovators Like
Bagginsbill, Philc and ockham have given to the user base?

how much coding skill did it take to create this poser4 redux I wonder.
It seems SM is completely bereft of new Ideas/Innovations at this point

This is a HUGE marketing Blunder IMHO.

Cheers

"Opinions vary." :lol:

Aeilkema, you can always post your own aeilkema commercial posts in the aeilkema forum here.

Seriously, what a stupid complaint. ;)

Aeilkema, actually Rendo, as the owner of the site, can make any rule and break any rule they want. This has been proven many times in the past. This site is NOT a democracy so we just have to accept the fact that there is a higher power that can be excercised. I'm actually against the " no commercial" policy but I also remember the forum before it was made and it was much more chaostic, if, in my opinion, more informative. I check the commercial forum everyday, but still see far fewer post about new products there than used to be posted here. Sadly most vendors don't even bother posting there since it has way fewer 'hits'. Re: Poser Debut I actually think a stripped down version as a starter is a good idea. However since there is some cost involved vs the availability of free versions of other software, such as DAZ studio, it may have a limited market if it's not advertised heavily. With a sizable advertising campaign aimed at non-3d users it will probably do well, and bring new blood into the community. Advertising in areas (magazines and sites) devoted to existing 3d users will probably be much less useful, IMO.

The one drawback I see is the lack of Python scripting. 

It's only seen as a drawback by those of us who use and have used Poser lo these many years ;o). To a new user I assume python scripts can be confusing.

Laurie

Well not if you tell the new user what the script does and give them a button to push (Thanks Philc/Paul etc.)
assuming he/she can read.

My knowledge of python scripting is ZERO but that "run simulation" button in poser physics
has made me quite a bit of $$money$$ lately and offers me Ragdoll  character animation capability not available  in my $3000+ Dollar Cinema4D R11 Studio
but alas we had no python scripting back in the previous century in poser4
so why would it be in the "new" poser4 AKA "Debut".

Cheers

This seems like a good idea - the suggestions that this product should be free in the way DAZ Studio is are missing a point.

Studio can be given away free for two reasons: first its on-line distribution as a download and second because DAZ makes its money on the content sales made by those who download it. The downside is that by being on-line availability only and not being a shop product limits the product exposure.

SM is a different kettle of fish. While it is true that they want a slice of the content market, their main income is still from the software itself, which does come with a fairly big chunck of content now. It may not stand next to 4th Gen DAZ figures but it is enough to get people started. Being a sold item, available in a box, no doubt discounted from its rrp, it will be able to reach a potential customer base that won't notice DAZ Studio - shoppers in stores, both in the high-street and on-line. You won't stumble upon Studio in Amazon, but you might Poser.

On the subject of materials - it does look like it might be able to apply more advanced materials through the content browser - but you won't be able to edit them.

I still think the price tag is a little steep for what you aren't getting.

If the regular price was $29.99 with an intro price of $9.99, I could see sales going somewhere. 

P7 was just on sale for $39.99.  Does this release mean SMS will no longer be offering older versions of Poser at sale prices?

Sidefx doesn't really sell content AFAIK and they have Houdini Apprentice for free. SoftImage had a free version which probably got canned when AutoDesk bought them. E-on sell content though I'm not sure how big a slice of their revenue it is - and they have a free version. Serif gives away older versions of their graphics apps, etc., so I'm not sure the content vs. software argument is wholly persuasive, to me at least. Heck, Poser 5 was even free for a limited time.

I'm not saying the strategy is necessarily a bad idea, but when your only real direct competitor has a capable free product advertised all over the web... I'm also a bit dubious about the value of boxed sales these days. I'm sure there are a lot of folks who would prefer the shrink wrap, myself included, but I'm also pretty sure that the days of brick and mortar software sales are about gone - even assuming you can get shelf space without paying hefty kickba.. er' promotional fee. It's their money though and I wish them well.

haha, smithmicro is feeling the breath of Quidam down their neck!

@Philebus: "You won't stumble upon Studio in Amazon, but you might Poser."

Interesting point.  I hadn't thought about that!  Advertising doesn't happen unless there's a return for the advertising.

"Create 3D Art Like Pixar® & Dreamworks®

Poser Debut's Firefly rendering engine is powerful enough to create art and animation that looks like it came from a Hollywood studio, yet is simple enough to use from your first draft to your final masterpiece. Within minutes you can start rendering 3D scenes into gorgeous art and cool animations that will impress your family, friends teachers and coworkers."

Really?

Really??

This is the copy advertising a 3d app for beginners???

My BS meter exploded, now I have to clean it up.

By the way, if SM meant "friends' teachers" they missed the apostrophe, if they meant "friends, teachers" then the comma got lost.  As it stands, the claim is that users will impress their "friends teachers", a small and odd subset of the universe of potential 3d art admirers.

Klebnor

Isn't Nichtentsteigen "The City of No"?

Quote - "Create 3D Art Like Pixar® & Dreamworks®Poser Debut's Firefly rendering engine is powerful enough to create art and animation that looks like it came from a Hollywood studio, yet is simple enough to use from your first draft to your final masterpiece. Within minutes you can start rendering 3D scenes into gorgeous art and cool animations that will impress your family, friends teachers and coworkers."

 

Really?

Really??

This is the copy advertising a 3d app for beginners???

My BS meter exploded, now I have to clean it up.

mad giggle There's quite a bit of postwork on some of them thar images too ;o)

Laurie

"Do not board"

As in a train.

It is generallly the placeholder, displayed in the city field, for the overhead signs at a large or central trainstation (Hauptbahnhof) when the train is at the platform, but the destination has not been designated.

Hence the saying "all the empty trains go to Nichteinsteigen"

The city of no would be "Neinstadt", formerly known as Bonn.

Klebnor

So if you have Poser 7...would Poser Debut give you any key features that would be beneficial, other than a better interface?

For example, a combination of Poser 7/Debut covers a LOT of Poser 8...and would be more cost effective at $29 than a $129 upgrade.

I talked to Smith Micro support, and they said it would all be compatible. (though take it with a grain of salt, as their tech support had not even heard of this new Debut product...I had to direct him to his website, LOL)

I think I will be picking this up. Not because of price.

But I LOVE poser.

Actually most interested if you can make a scene (pz3) in PD (without the file location restrictions) and then open that scene in P7?  Am trying to get an answer to that here

Ok. Colour me dumb, but what exactly is the whole purpose behind this "poser debut"?!

You can buy the full program, use only the parts that you want to, and have the parts that you can't yet use, for when you feel up to speed enough where you want to learn more.

I mean one can play "dress up dolly" for only so long before you want to start sinking your teeth into some of the more substantial elements of the program... such as the material room and cloth room.

Will there be plugins available that people can buy to add to the "debut" product? Or will they have to fork over more money to buy upgrades?

Personally my opinion is that if you want to get into 3D, rather than spending money on something that will take you 25% to where you need to be, you are better off spending the money on something that will eventually get you 100% to where you want to go.

Much of the advertised art is post worked, and have elements in them that are done using more advanced elements of the program such as material room nodes, and lighting. Lighting is the key to a good image, but so is knowing placement.  No out of the box program will get you doing those things within minutes unless you already know how. 

I imagine that not everyone can afford the full program or necessarily justify it. There also probably quite a few potential users who just want to make pics for greeting cards, newsletters, any number of things that may not require the whole enchilada. Parents/teachers may want to introduce kids to computer art, even someone doing forensic recreations may not need dynamic cloth or advanced materials.

I do think the ad copy may be a bit of a disconnect. The would be Hollywood FX crowd and the impress the 'friends teachers' folks are probably largely different markets. I agree that for the former, getting the full program would be a better choice. Being able to add plugins or packs to Debut would be great - that's the way Vue markets their free and entry level products. Of course, that would be a bit like a certain other 3D figure program :-)

I would definitely see this as geared towards being an "Educational" or "Beginners" product. I could see schools forking out multiple licenses of this for students to learn on where they'd balk at multiple licenses of the full program.

I still say that just the fact that they're going back to pushing it in Real World physical box stores is a good thing for the market. It will definitely increase market awareness of the program. That's a good thing ain't it?

It's certainly not geared towards me as an experienced user but I can reccommend the Debut program to people who want to dip their feet into Poser and not DAZ Studio. It will also get beginners back into Poser's interface first and not expect them to learn DS's interface before jumping to Poser. It just makes good sense to me.

Quote - Isn't Nichtentsteigen "The City of No"?

Good morning Steve

The secretary has booked you in for your usual appointment , how are you.

I am a bitz vurried about your address on the appointments card , you seem to have forgotten that you put Nichtentsteigen as your home address?

Gooten Moorgen

Question for EF starlet - will the Debut version include content from P8 or other versions ? Either way it's nice to see that you've released an affordable 'base' version as that will bring some new people into something we all enjoy.

Argh, stonewalled again... ;-)

"Unfortunately, at this time the technical details of Poser Debut have not yet been released. From what I understand it is based on the Poser 8 user interface, but I do not have further information regarding the content location or organization."

Quote - > Quote - Isn't Nichtentsteigen "The City of No"?

Good morning Steve

The secretary has booked you in for your usual appointment , how are you.

I am a bitz vurried about your address on the appointments card , you seem to have forgotten that you put Nichtentsteigen as your home address?

Gooten Moorgen

Nein! Das ist nicht meine Adresse. Es gehört zum Klebnor.

Quote - Question for EF starlet - will the Debut version include content from P8 or other versions ? Either way it's nice to see that you've released an affordable 'base' version as that will bring some new people into something we all enjoy.

The Debut version contains a lot of the content, but doesn't contain all of from what I remember.  When I'm back in the office tomorrow, I'll see about getting the final list together - I know there are a ton of the figures (From many of the legacy ones like P6 Jessi and James to the P8 figures.)

Quote - Argh, stonewalled again... ;-)

"Unfortunately, at this time the technical details of Poser Debut have not yet been released. From what I understand it is based on the Poser 8 user interface, but I do not have further information regarding the content location or organization."

There is a second table that will come out at launch, but I'll see if we can get added to the landing page tomorrow, that shows the limitations of certain content and what those limitations are.  (Like can/can't be opened, edited, rendered, etc.) 

If you are on any version of Poser already, going to Poser 8 or Poser Pro 2010 is going to be your best bet - Debut really is a step down.  Your Poser 7 content and scenes will open, Debut reads Poser files, but there is some "advanced content" that has some advanced materials or things like dynamics that will not be able to be edited, or etc within Debut.  The second table will cover those limitations.  I'll ping the web team tomorrow, but it will definitely be available for launch on Monday.

Ok, guess a thread addressing the subject was too much to hope for. So, Question for efStarlet. Will SM be releasing the XMP MetaData editor in any way shape or form so that folks can add MetaData to existing content? I've searched the web for XMP editors and all the ones I found were only for editing image metadata.

Quote - Ok, guess a thread addressing the subject was too much to hope for. So, Question for efStarlet. Will SM be releasing the XMP MetaData editor in any way shape or form so that folks can add MetaData to existing content? I've searched the web for XMP editors and all the ones I found were only for editing image metadata.

Yes. And it has nothing to do with Debut.

Quote - > Quote - Ok, guess a thread addressing the subject was too much to hope for. So, Question for efStarlet. Will SM be releasing the XMP MetaData editor in any way shape or form so that folks can add MetaData to existing content? I've searched the web for XMP editors and all the ones I found were only for editing image metadata.

Yes. And it has nothing to do with Debut.

Yes and I DID make a thread addressed to EFStarlet which got no response so I put my question here instead and I got a PM response from scooper. Thanks!

efstarlet, as mentioned previously, they will change yer username to SMStarlet if desired, altho of course there are certain connotations to the acronym "SM" other than smith micro.  ask at "the other site" if further info needed.  and thx to bill fr additional info re: P9.  wasn't expecting this until apr 01.

Make that handle "SmiMiStar!"

It's Nichteinsteigen, not Nichtentsteigen.

Nichtentsteigen would mean "do not mount the duck".  I never mentioned anything about mounting ducks, on the wall or anywhere else.

auf wienerschnitzel.

Klebnor

*                  It's Nichteinsteigen, not Nichtentsteigen.*

*                  Nichtentsteigen would mean "do not mount the duck".  I
                  never** mentioned anything about mounting ducks, on the 
                  wall or anywhere else.*

*                  auf wienerschnitzel.*

*                  Klebnor*

You never mentioned anything actually. I just misspelled your location from beneath your avatar. :ohmy:

Auf vederzen.

As for you for you SteveJax 

I am sending the car!

Poser Debut looks like free version DAZ Studio.

If you want more functions, you need to upgrade it.

I had 'Starlet' for a while when we were at CL, but something got messed up along the way and I got a new name.  It doesn't really matter to me what the username is, as long as you all know who I am.  ;-)

Steve Cooper, the product manager, is going to put together a blog post about Debut with a lot more detail, and put that up today or tomorrow and I think that will cover any lingering questions and any other technical questions about Poser should be directed to tech support or more knowledgable technical parties.  :)

I've got a launch to prepare for...so I'll be ducking away now to get everything lined up for Monday! 

Thanks for the info Starlet. I'm glad to hear that SM is still enthusiastic about Poser 'cause that means good news for all of us who love and have fun using it.

 take care

Attached Link: A Primer on Poser Debut

http://blog.smithmicro.com/2011/02/10/poser-3d/the-primer-on-poser-debut/

Excellent !!! ........ Thanks Starlet.

Are we still "on" for the 14th? :blink: ... Ah hope, ah hope, ah hope ... ?

We are so locked and loaded - we may even be "on" for east coast time for this one!!

FUNtastic !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks. :biggrin: ... My Paypal account is primed and ready to go !

(philebus)

Quote - You won't stumble upon Studio in Amazon, but you might Poser.

That's exactly how I discovered Poser.  I was searching Amazon for something, and a promo for Poser 6 caught my eye.  I didn't know you could do 3D CGI on a home computer.  And so I'm here.

I don't think the forum regulars would buy Poser Debut for themselves, but they may well buy it for their kids (or parents), or recommend it to their friends who are new to 3D.

*                   Mench Mench vas ist! r ve all not vun happy family in Vopertal.*
*                   Auf vederzen.*
*                   As for you for you SteveJax *
*                   I am sending the car!*

You can send the whole fleet but they won't find me. :sneaky: Harry Potter isn't the only one with an invisibility cloak. Bwahaha......(That's Maniacal Laughter for you).... :lol:

 Steve 

Ah szo my little friend ,already you are feeling as szo people are looking for you?

Relax 

However keep taking the Pills and Vun other thing if you see flashing lights make another appointment.

Attached Link: Poser Debut

Poser Debut is now available, and the Poser microsite has been brushed up a bit.  :)

http://poser.smithmicro.com

This sounds similar to the free version of Daz Studio but if Poser Debut can't compete on that same level as the free version of Daz Studio then I'm not sure anyone is going to be interested in buying something that does less than the free version of Daz Studio.

Just based on the Poser workshops that I teach, it seems as if Poser Debut has been reduced to the bare minimums that's actually required to render decent art.  Poser itself is powerful enough to create good renders (in my opinion) with using the basics. The majority of the art in my gallery rarely goes beyond the basics (meaning no material changes or advanced lighting). Many beginners and intermediates are confused by the intermediate and advance features of Poser so maybe Smith Micro is working on a Beginner's Version of Poser?

Either way, if it falls behind the free version of Daz Studio then I don't think it will do to well. Not unless it has some really good beginner automated features.