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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Nov 26 6:57 am)
Subject: !!!!! Stop it !!!!!
@SamTherapy - Thankyou for your efforts to help keep runtimes organised. I see it as a win-win senerio; the vendors help keep my runtime organised and I will remember to credit their products in my gallery.
@Keith - What a fantastic list!!!!!! (exclamations very appropriate in this instance. LOL).
BTW to others, I don't like to single out any vendors on some hit list. I think that's a bit extreme. Hopefully Rendo staff can mediate if there is too many complaints lodged to them against certain vendors/products.
I have communitated with only a few vendors and always had positive responces. Considering their products were made for Poser and not Daz Studio (as I said that's my 3D tool of choice) they have accomodated my feedback well. A couple have even posted updates.
Vendors should keep the old marketing addage in mind; "Make customers happy and they tells their friends but make them unhappy and they tell the world". This is more true when you consider the power of the internet to create global communities AND I note from "artists on line" up top of Rendo's web page that I have never seen the number drop below 2000 AND has recently tripled to 6000!!!! (more appropiately placed exclamations. LOL).
Quote - One thing I'm not sure has been mentioned was the fact that Poser would always jump to the top of the list of folders. Ergo, if your stuff is at the top, it's going to get used more, unless you actually scroll down to find what you want. Chances are, the stuff you wind up using the most would be on top.
Or at least in older versions of Poser...;)
In my tiny amount of freebies, I named my folder Pakled!!!, just to poke fun at the whole concept...;)
Hehehe... ;D I'm getting all kinds of ideas reading this thread...
My next freebie will have the following folder structure (for the 2 people stupid enough to download it):
Runtime:libraries:character: !!!!OMG Terrymcg is AWESOME!!!!
and
Runtime:libraries:Pose: !!!I ROCK!!!!!
Rest of the files will be in the folder:
Runtime: !!!!!!!!!!!!!
D'oh! Why do things that happen to stupid people keep happening to me?
Quote - BTW to others, I don't like to single out any vendors on some hit list. I think that's a bit extreme.
Hit list? What? There talking about an 'Angie’s List' Sort of list not a 'Berlin 1938' kind of list. There is nothing extreme about consumers banding together to better insure quality and professionalism. If some vendor produced a product with exceptional promotional images yet the product itself is actually crap, I'd like to know about it before I whip out the credit card, and given the fact that 5 stars are the all to constant rating, I would rather know what people like Samtherapy, Acadia and such others think about the product. That's not an extreme concept, it's a smart one. Maybe you don't like the concept or truly think that it is unnecessary but to call it a 'hit list' IS extreme and by default labels those who do support the concept as bad guys (i.e. those who support hit lists are often bad guys).
@Doran - Ok the term "hit list"is a bit extreme but honestly I couldn't think of another name for a group of people getting together to single out others. Having myself been bullied at school when very young strong emotions still haunt me.
If enougth customers lodge complaints to Rendo about a product or vendor then I'd thrust they will act. Hopefully act faster than they do in the galleries against nudity in thumbs; which is neck breaking fast. LOL.
Also customers have the Administration forums to also voice their dissatisfaction in. Worth checking out now and again. Some juicy stuff turns up there; even from vendors against other vendors.
Spiderman's Uncle "With great power comes great responsibility". Just be careful about your list, whatever you call it.
With which product sources does this problem most reside with? I can understand freebies from ShareCG or similar being all over the board (like no runtime at all) since there is no QA process to get something published (that I know of), but doesn't Renderosity and Daz have a fairly stringent QA that could be leveraged to fix this?
With the exception of the common, most widely used packages, I generally build a fresh "project-specific" runtime whenever I start a new project. That way I'm only presented with what I need and I can contain the "mess". I also maintain the original product download in a very granular folder hierarchy that makes locating them much easier. I'll also stick original zips or exe's in another archive named to match the exact product name and include some product shots for easy reference.
I know this strategy wouldn't work for everyone but since I need to be able to account for every dollar spent, it works. By the way, this problem isn't just a Poser problem. :) It would seem that organization and art mix about as well as initiative and complacency.
@Andrew-DEC - No vendors names has been mentioned yet, which is a good thing.
One can't really raise an issue with freebies. They're free and so one has to just grin an bear it and maybe get their hands dirty fixing up the files. Actually I learnt a lot about Poser files and how Poser works by fixing up others freebies, and I can get about 90% of them to work in Daz Studio (my 3D tool of choice).
So the issues here are really about sold products where one would expect a bit more attention to detail and understanding of the structure of Runtimes.
The thread started with an issue about using exclamations !!!! in file/folder names (which I agree with). Then others added their issues, including yours truely (being human I naturally had to put my 2 cents worth into this mix). A list to single out vendors was suggested (make up your own title to the list) and I hope will not be implemented. And of coarse the thread sort of drifted about as we brain stormed.
Anyhoot I feel the core of the issues are really well summed up by Keith's excellent list (which should maybe be turned into a mantra for vendors, possibly as a post-it-note superglued to the foreheads of some vendors. LOL).
I wasn't looking for actual vendor names, but moreso the marketplaces that this sort of thing is deemed acceptable. From what I've read DAZ can be quite particular about what gets published but I've not read anything regarding QA at other marketplaces to comment. One would think that some general conventions around naming and folder structure (and of course if the darn thing even functions) could be added to said QA process, if it exists. If not, then a non-profit, fan-run governing body could be established to provide an additional "Quality-Approved" certfication to their product. It would be entirely voluntary for vendors to use obviously but is a little more official than just a white or black list of vendors. Those vendors that care enough about selling quality products will submit their work for review to gain that certification. That's the idea anyway.
Again, the better method would be for the marketplaces to add this sort of thing to their own QA checklist, but in the absence of that, perhaps a "Fan Approved" certification that a vendor could tote (even provide a logo for them to add to the product page) would be enough to sway behaviour towards using best practices.
@Andrew_DEC - Sorry for my missunderstanding. I remember suggestion a Quality system last year in the Adimistration forums. It was noted as a good idea but not sure if it was ever implemented.
One thing that has to be sorted out is what does "Quality" actually mean and what should it cover.
For example - I know professional artists want whopping huge texture files 2000x2000pixels and larger because of render quality on close up work. But for me a hobbiest I don't really care and such large texture files are a burden to my PC CPU/RAM/Video Card whatever.
So already a professional artist and a hobbiest are going to have different perceptions of Quality they want from a product.
Perhaps quality is a bad term to use here as I don't feel it's appropriate to circumvent the user review section. Perhaps Compliance would be a better term. Here's a quick example of things that a "certified" product would be checked against.
Items of Compliance
- Adhere to standard naming convention, both in file and folder (this would need to be clearly defined)
- Adhere to standard folder hierarchy, starting at Runtime
- No extraneous files within Runtime
- Readme includes all appropriate information pertaining to package
- Package generally works as it should (very light touch review like checking that poses don't wipe out morphs for instance)
- Zip names actually include the product name somewhere
@Andrew-DEC - Good list. Short, simple and to the point. Point one was the issue that started this thread. All those exclamation marks !!!! should be thrown out or used very sparingly for specific files (such as INJ/REM as suggested by Kieth under Rule 5) . Also I like the list name change to "Compliance". It's less of a grey area than Quality.
I've been lobbying for a certification program for a while. It would be nice if SM or Renderocity took the lead, but anyone with a little more free time and ambition than I have could get it going. Just create a web site like "PoserCertification.org", list the criteria for certification, and start certifying. Some thoughts:
- Anyone could certify a product but you might want to limit it to official certifiers.
- Certification is a pass-fail thing - you either meet the criteria or you don't.
- The quality of the product is not an issue.
- Vendors who don't want to be certified or object to the idea can go about selling their products just as they do now.
I wonder if SM and sites like Renderosity realize how many potential clients and sales they are losing out on because of problems like those listed above. I know I gave up on Poser and Daz twice before slogging my way through the stinkin' swamp pit that passes for content management. It seems to me that it is in everyone's best interests to implement some set of basic standards.
OS: Windows 10 64-bit, Poser: 10
@ElZagna - Poser Debut & Daz Studio in Schools to get kids interested in / exposed to 3D creation (which is a fair size market interest now because of movies like Avatar). That would open up new market.
Of coarse they will have to be careful about content to kids (parents would be waving a big stick). You know how irresponsible & experimental kids can be. They should wait to become adults to become irresponsible and experimental like the rest of us. LOL.
May have to introduce ratings for content to kids just like movies, G, PG, M, R, XXX, WTF ;-)
:: shrug :: I dont see it as a big deal, TTTT. It's easy enough to rename things in the libraries, but since I work heavily with external RTs for each current project, it's kind of a non-issue for me. Annoying, but only until I take five seconds and change "!!!!!Hiro" to just plain ol' Hiro. I dont think it bothers him any. :-)
docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider
@SeanMartin - In someways you are right and taken to the extreme one could say that all that we have been, all that we are, and all that we will ever be won't even rate an eye blink on the face of Eternity so it becomes meaningless to gripe about anything.
However I live in the momment, and each momment to the next momment is measured by the breath of Life I take inbetween. So those momments become precious to me not knowing when my last breath will be.
And those momments become wasted as I wade through the war of exlamation marks !!!! and bad content structure in my runtime. Actually it shouldn't be called a "runtime" folder anymore; SM should rename it to a "crawltime" folder.
BTW no angst is directed personnally; just venting my frustration, that's all.
Quote - I've been lobbying for a certification program for a while. It would be nice if SM or Renderocity took the lead, but anyone with a little more free time and ambition than I have could get it going. Just create a web site like "PoserCertification.org", list the criteria for certification, and start certifying. Some thoughts:
- Anyone could certify a product but you might want to limit it to official certifiers.
- Certification is a pass-fail thing - you either meet the criteria or you don't.
- The quality of the product is not an issue.
- Vendors who don't want to be certified or object to the idea can go about selling their products just as they do now.
Creating a site like the one quoted would set up an elitist caste system among Poser users and anyone with enough cash to throw at the certification site would get certified!
What? You think someone's going to start a certification.org site like the one above and do all that file checking and certifying for free? You must think Pie falls out of the sky!
*>> "Creating a site like the one quoted would set up an elitist caste system among Poser users and anyone with enough cash to throw at the certification site would get certified!"*If that's how you approach it, yes, it'll happen. But if it's a site where the QA is a little more ruthless so customers dont have to come back and tell the vendor or the vendor site, "Hey, didnt anyone see this in testing?", I could see a certification program as possibly a good thing.
Thing is, there are very few "professional" vendors in the Poserverse: most are hobbyists just looking to feed that Vicky monkey on their backs -- and as such, sometimes a few corners are cut just to get the product out the door. Most users these days seem to shrug their shoulders and say "Hey it only cost me a few bucks, I can fix it myself"... but when it comes to that happening from a upper echelon vendor, you have to wonder why fixing would be necessary for someone who, by now anyway, would know better.
I dont think this would be the kind of thing one could simply buy their way in. At least I would hope not.
docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider
Quote - Besides the !!!!! (which I also despise), it would nice if vendors put their files under a folder with their name on it so I know who to credit on my renders and to find their files easily for correcting (a constant necessity because I use Daz Studio).
Example if vendor name FRED001 then I would expect the following:-
Runtime:Geometries:FRED001:productXYZ:product.obj
Runtime:Libraries:Props:FRED001:productXYZ:product.pp2
Runtime:Textures:FRED001:productXYZ:product.jpg
If the vendor are truely after more sales then having gallery credits by the artist (purchaser) is good advertising for future sales. And the best way to remind us artists (purchasers) to credit them is to have their products under a folder with their name so as to differentiate it from all the hundreds (maybe !!!!thousands!!!!) of folders in our runtime.
I agree and disagree.... Do the Geometries and Textures if you want, but do not do that in the Library Props, Figures, etc...
If I have Miki in a Scene and I go to the Pose Library looking for Poses (not Textures), I will not look in a Vendors Folder to see if it contains Poses or Morphs or MAT Poses
Better would be this...
Example if vendor name FRED001 then I would expect the following:-
Runtime:Geometries:FRED001:productXYZ:product.obj
Runtime:Libraries:Props:<Type of Prop (IE Car, Plant, etc..>: FRED001:productXYZ:product.pp2
Runtime:Textures:FRED001:productXYZ:product.jpg
While we are on the topic of naming folders... be consistant. If you start calling the Figure Folder by the Name of the Product, do so in the Pose, Material, Props, etc Folders. I hate having to play hunt and find to locate Materials, Fit Poses, etc.. in the Library because one is located in the Folder called "Cool Blue" in the Figures Library, but the rest are in Folders named "Look At Me, I Created Stuff" Folders in the Props, Poses, etc...
Also, do not use too generic of names.. Box.obj is used... if you create a new box, call it Box.obj This goes for pants, shoes, etc....
On the topic of issues with packaging... Top Folder should be Runtime, not your Products Name for a Folder... it is a pain to add to a Library and I will never buy from you again.
Also, name your Zip File for the Product and if there is more than one file, name them all the same Starting with the name. I bought one product that never worked right when I got around to installing it because the product had three files... one was called (real names removed to protect the idiots) "Product A", the second was called "Product A 02", the third was called "03 Additional Files needed for the Item I created"
If you have more than one file, the first file should also indicate it.. Try
Product A 1of3, Product A 2of3, Product A 3of3
On MAT Poses... Poser 8 is now out... Poser 4 is older than any of my computers... Consider using the Material Room... so much cleaner. If you want it to work in DS too, make a DS Package. DS may have originally been designed to use Poser Content as is, but things have changed. There are differences in how the Material Values work between the two programs. Take the effort to make your product stand out.
ratscloset
aka John
Quote - >> "Creating a site like the one quoted would set up an elitist caste system among Poser users and anyone with enough cash to throw at the certification site would get certified!"
Quote - If that's how you approach it, yes, it'll happen. But if it's a site where the QA is a little more ruthless so customers dont have to come back and tell the vendor or the vendor site, "Hey, didnt anyone see this in testing?", I could see a certification program as possibly a good thing. Thing is, there are very few "professional" vendors in the Poserverse: most are hobbyists just looking to feed that Vicky monkey on their backs -- and as such, sometimes a few corners are cut just to get the product out the door. Most users these days seem to shrug their shoulders and say "Hey it only cost me a few bucks, I can fix it myself"... but when it comes to that happening from a upper echelon vendor, you have to wonder why fixing would be necessary for someone who, by now anyway, would know better.
I dont think this would be the kind of thing one could simply buy their way in. At least I would hope not.
Unfortunately, we don't live in that kind of world Sean. Just look at what you wrote. Most vendors in the Poser market really are just hobbiests who moved into semi professionalism to justify all the money they were spending on the hobby. Do you really think anyone opening a "Certifications" website would be doing it for altruistic reasons? Seriously?
First off it would be costing them just to host such a site. Then it would be costing them time to actually certify all of these items and probably cash if they had to pay someone else to certify items for them. It's just not the sort of thing you'll see going "Open Source". I'd love to see someone proove me wrong though.
My preferred runtime structures are here:
:Runtime:libraries:Character:People:DAZ:Mil1:Mike
:Runtime:libraries:Character:People:DAZ:Mil2:Vicky
......etcetra
:Runtime:libraries:Character:People:SmithMicro:Poser4:Dork
:Runtime:libraries:Character:People:SmithMicro:Poser5:Judy
:Runtime:libraries:Character:People:SmithMicro:G2:Olivia
......etcetra
:Runtime:libraries:Character:Clothing:SmithMicro:Poser5:Judy:Whoever:FancyDress
......etcetra
:runtime:libraries:Props:Clothing:SmithMicro:Poser5:Judy:Whoever:FancyDress
......etcetra
:runtime:Libraries:Pose:Material Poses:Skin Textures:DAZ:Mil1:Mike
:runtime:Libraries:Pose:Material Poses:Skin Textures:SmithMicro:Poser4:Dork
......etcetra
:runtime:Libraries:Pose:MaterialPoses:clothing:SmithMicro:Poser5:Judy:Whoever:Fancy
......etcetra
Quote - Creating a site like the one quoted would set up an elitist caste system among Poser users and anyone with enough cash to throw at the certification site would get certified!
You may have missed this bullet: "The quality of the product is not an issue."
The criteria for certification are pretty black and white (see the lists by Andrwe_DEC and Keith). If a vendor doesn't adhear to a naming convention, for example, how much do you think it would cost them to bribe a certifier, and how much do you think it would cost them to simply follow the guidelines? In my experience, most people are willing to follow a standard if they know what the stabdard is, even when they don't especially like it. I've heard the expression, "Any standard is better than no standard."
Quote - What? You think someone's going to start a certification.org site like the one above and do all that file checking and certifying for free? You must think Pie falls out of the sky!
Yep. Look at all the Wikis out there, and look at all the open source work being done. People do stuff like this all the time.
OS: Windows 10 64-bit, Poser: 10
Quote - Actually it shouldn't be called a "runtime" folder anymore; SM should rename it to a "crawltime" folder.
Actually it should never have been called Runtime. "Runtime" has a specific technical meaning that is significant to the developers writing the code but is meaningless to the average Poser user. It should have been called "Content" or perhaps "!!!!!Content" ;)
@LBAMagic: I can easily see 3D grapics becoming the next big deal on web sites and advertising media, but for that to happen it will have to be much, much easier to use and much, much more stable.
There is another thread on this forum where people were talking about the idea of DAZ buying out Poser. I mentioned that my preference would be for someone like Adobe to snatch it up and intergrate it into their suite of tools. It will take a major software publisher with a solid understanding of what makes a good business model to bring Poser out of the hobbiest arena and turn it into a real tool that we can maybe start making some money out of.
Oh, yeah - that was a good piece of prose you wrote. **
**
OS: Windows 10 64-bit, Poser: 10
>> "Do you really think anyone opening a "Certifications" website would be doing it for altruistic reasons?
Of course not. But if you're a high-profile content provider (or aspire to be one), certification would seem to be something that can work in your favour. And I'd see that as an investment myself... but hey, that's just me. YRMV.
docandraider.com -- the collected cartoons of Doc and Raider
Unfortunatley if I move all those folders out on "Libraries" and into a more appropriate folder called "Morphs" then all the links will be broken and the vendor updates won't work.
And this is just an example of the chaos in the first level of folders without going into the Libraries subfolders!!!!
Funny to see that Rawart made two folders "!Raw" and "Raw". Obviously thought the exclamation mark would help find their folder. Sorry mate didn't work! Use a truck load more exlamation marks next time!!!! LOL
Poser has passed through various distributor hands and so I suspect noone seems to have given much thought on all the content being created and how best to organise it to be shared.
Poser created a Libraries folder called Materials in Poser 5 (I think). So any Libraries folders previously created by others also called Materials in earlier Poser versions would a been a right nightmare to fix up after the new official Materials folder was created.
Another issue is that Daz Studio is very specific with seaching files in accordance exactly by the filepath written. Poser is more flexible and as long as the file is in the Runtime folder it will find it even if the filepath is incorrect. I prefer th use Daz Studio. So you Poser users have got it easy in this regards. I have to be extremely careful to move files around. Files with exclamation marks (as anoying as they are) are the least of my woes. !!Sigh!!
Typically the files that use the ones you want or wish where in the Morph folder are Injection poses. I use textwranger by bare bones software (mac) which has a search and replace you can point at a whole a folder, not just a file or all open files. I have nothing in the Library folder other then the standard folders, !Daz and a folder called Morphs it takes less then a minute to do a mass search and replace on say "Runtimes:Libraries:Raw: and change it to "Runtimes:Libraries:Morphs:Raw: as an example you pointed out.
I edit files all the time. Not one supplied .pmd file is inside my libraries folder. They are all in the same folder as the geometry files that came with the product. I want to be able to reorganize, move, change, subdivide my runtimes freely and as a result of taking a maybe a minute or two up front I save hours when I want to shuffle the deck so to speak.
Gary
"Those who lose themselves in a passion lose less than those who lose their passion"
@gritcher - textwranger sound interesting but I use a PC (not Mac). Anyhoot I use Dimension3D RuntimeRepair to help fix up / rewrite filepaths so the file can be found by Daz Studio.
I find that moving files around within the official Libraries folders Camera/Character/Face/Hair/Hand/Light/Materials/Pose/Props is ok provided there isn't a geometry(obj), texture(jpg, png, etc), and pmd left in those Libraries folders as well.
All geomeries should be in Geometries and all textures should be in Textures. But I don't think the pmd file was well thought out by the Poser developers to just have it sit in the Libraries folders. Like the InjDelta.PZ2/RemDelta.PZ2, the pmd file should be in a special place such as "Morphs" outside the Libraries folder.
I just hope the Poser developers don't create a new official Room called "Morphs" otherwise that will give me a big headache. And if Poser developers give too much free reign for others to create folders then they will cause themselves a headache on future developments of Poser.
Anyhoot as I said, if I start moving files/folders around I have to be real careful because then content updates from Vendors will not work or take more file editing on my part to make the update work.
I don't want to be forever fixing up files. I just want to make art!!!!!!
Quote - > Quote - "Creating a site like the one quoted would set up an elitist caste system among Poser users and anyone with enough cash to throw at the certification site would get certified!"
You may have missed this bullet: "The quality of the product is not an issue."
What does quality have to do with the text you quoted? I still don't see anyone ponying up their time, and cash to run this site without actually charging people to get certified. And by charging them I can see abuses from the get go.
Quote - Yep. Look at all the Wikis out there, and look at all the open source work being done. People do stuff like this all the time.
I think that you should look at the Wikis. Specifically, the Poser Wikis. DAZ has one that they can't get anyone to fill out and Rendo has a barebones one here which I've submitted two entries to but it's just not taking off either. Poser users in general, just aren't the Wiki filling out sort. These are the people you're expecting to do this work non-gratis?
You want to compare Certification to Open Source? Look at how few people are actually doing the work on Antonia. It would take 100 times that amount of people to do the work to certify files to get the Poser Certified sticker if people actually took their stuff there to be certified.
But hey, don't let me rain on your parade. I like pie too. Pie in the sky is just too hard to get to IMHO. :rolleyes:
@SteveJax - There seemsto be a significant disconnect between what you see as the certification process and what I and others are suggesting. The criteria for certification are straightforward and black and white. The effort required to review a product should be about five minutes. The idea is not to create some hurdle that the vendors have to overcome, it's to simply give them a set of standards to meet.
OS: Windows 10 64-bit, Poser: 10
The disconnect is that I KNOW what's involved in product checking a file for release to the Poser public. It's NOT something that can be done in 5 minutes. Checking file structure alone will take 5 minutes. Checking that poses work, well that involves actually loading the runtime into Poser, loading figures and possibly clothing if there are MAT Poses involved. None of which can be done in less than an half an hour. Multiply that by 20 products and there's your whole day.
Quote - OK. Whatever.
O.o
SteveJax is absolutely correct. I'd expect that much at least from my beta testers. Any certification process should be at least as thorough.
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
I originally wrote the following in a PM. I wasn't going to say any more in this thread because I hate being the hope crusher. I guess the following explaination best describes why I don't ever see Certification happening, much as I'd like to see a Poser Certified Logo on stuff:
This is why I don't see Smith Micro or anyone else doing this. First and foremost, I can see no return on their investment costs to do such a thing. None. Zilch. There is no profit to be made in certifying content.
Here's the thing. I've MADE content for sale and free to redistribute. I know just how much time it takes to verify that a package is not only setup properly runtime wise but tested to verify that it works. The 35 minute estimate I gave in the thread was an extreemly conservative estimate basically just for a package of MAT poses. I can see where testing figures could actually take days to be certified that they work properly. DAYS!
First, a figure isn't JUST a figure. It's a new figure with Morphs, maybe with a complete set of basic clothing, and maybe a whole pose set including hand poses and facial expressions and MAT poses. That's a LOT of content to test and every thing must be tested to get "Poser Certified"! It Has to be. If you don't test everything you will get complaints with any item that passes and ends up problematic. Get enough of these pass through problems and your "Poser Certified" is suddenly just a joke and people stop submitting things at all. Then you're just back to where we are now.
The end result being, most people either learn to fix things they find or they quit the hobby. They're better off learning to do it themselves because honestly? This isn't a hobby for lazy people. You either learn and learn and learn some more, or you quit. I've been doing this since 1998 and I still learn new things every day because I dig into it and I don't know squat about a lot of aspects of Poser still to this day.
In the past 13 years or so, I've seen this "Poser Certified" topic crop up at least half a dozen times under various scenarios and names and it always fizzles of it's own accord. Why? Because as people dig into it, they discover it is WORK and it's not gonna get done for them for free. Nobody wants to do the work. Simple as that. So end users will just continue to bitch because they either have to learn to fix things IE: Do the work themselves or quit.
There. I said it. Hate me now? 
Not me. Your reasoning is perfectly sound.
It's incumbent upon vendors to do their bit by testing and getting reliable beta testers. Without a paid incentive, expecting anything above and beyond that is - as you said previously - pie in the sky. I do, however, wish Marketplace testing was more stringent. There have been packages sold here in the past which broke submission criteria. That should never happen.
OTOH, there are many damn good vendors who get it right anyhow.
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
That's a neat idea, Pat.
Something to mull over...
I don't know how you'd get a site to accept the certification process, in any case. Not unless it was handed down on high from SM. Even then, people may react badly to it, believing it to be a similar scenario to Sony et al and their stance on content development for their consoles.
For example, Rendo and DAZ both walk a line regarding quality and quantity. True enough, there are some terrible products out there which should have never seen the light of day but is any merchanting site really going to put a stop to it when they get a hefty slice of the cake on any item sold? Anything slowing down their throughput wouldn't be very welcome, IMO.
It could also lead to a two tier system, where some sites sell only certified content and others don't. True or not, some buyers would percieve the non certified content to be inferior. It may well not be inferior but just a case of some vendors not wishing to jump through hoops to sell what they made. F'rinstance, I'd happily subscribe to certification - in theory - provided it didn't put any obstacles in my way. By that I mean pointless steps undertaken just to get the magic badge. I could also forsee a backlog of products awaiting the OK, too. Vendors ain't gonna like that.
Sorry Pat, I guess I just killed the "other thread" option stone dead. Or kick started it. :)
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.
I work with industrial equipment and for us quality checks are part of the manufacturing process at every stage. You have to maintain a structured process to ensure a level of quality. It's quite rigid. To translate this process to vendor content creation (or a Certification process by others) it would mean the vendor (or Certifying body) would have to have a certain amount of self disipline and a systematic approach to content creation. All very boaring stuff that sucks the fun out of the job.
I made a couple of freebies and I used my runtime to see how others structured their content. It was quite a learning experience. But as I was making them I was always doing checks along the way. It just comes natural to me from my day job. Anyhoot I wanted want I made to work for myself too! And since the content had my name attached, it was also a bit of personal pride to get it right. But I didn't quite get it right the first time. LOL.
Or kick started it. :)
That brings back memories...Long ago a dear friend of mine said," Your Revolution began with Our Magna Carta."
Sam, i see what you are saying. i see alot of potential for abuse too. How do we balance the power between customers, vendors, Daz and SM, and investors?
Is there a way to ease people into this?
I work with industrial equipment and for us quality checks are part of the manufacturing process at every stage. You have to maintain a structured process to ensure a level of quality. It's quite rigid. To translate this process to vendor content creation (or a Certification process by others) it would mean the vendor (or Certifying body) would have to have a certain amount of self disipline and a systematic approach to content creation. All very boaring stuff that sucks the fun out of the job.
How would you set up the certification process?
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Popular Unpopulars. Doesn't sound quite right does it. LOL