Attached Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqYFMoAoLoI&feature=player_embedded

Is that thing a daz figure?

Hi, that figure is the successor to M4/V4 for Daz Studio version4
it needs DAZ studio 4 to use these new figures  not likely usable in poser but
S/M Might surprise everyone with their own  new Figure tech soon I hear.

frankly I am more impressed with this new Auto rig for blender
HERE

Cheers

Well last time i asked about the new Poser comin' out i was told "don't worry about it" and in my neighborhood when someone says "don't worry about it"  ya don't.  'Specially if Bulldog Mac says it.

Whoa...BlenRig looks good.  How come his winkydink ain't rigged?

Point taken but honestly  any poser user who wants to use those "genesis Figures"
 better be prepared to switch to DAZ studio4 just as  One would have to move to blender to use their new rig system.

Thats the reality

Cheers

I'd say there is a very good chance you will be able to use the Genesis figures in Poser 9.

Coldrake

I'm sure you can use it in Poser, but most likely with limitations.

I say it will be implemented in 9. Financialy for Daz it would be silly to cut their market in half.

I think enough hints have been dropped here and over at the other place that SM and DAZ have been talking and that the next gen DAZ figures will work in (future) versions of Poser.

If most of one's renders will be of clothed figures, the refinements in the mesh - which certainly produce more realistic bends - are not really a must-have for now.

Someone does CLOTHED renders?

Quote - If most of one's renders will be of clothed figures, the refinements in the mesh - which certainly produce more realistic bends - are not really a must-have for now.

There will also be refinements in the clothing, which will be better fitting and also have more realistic bends.

Coldrake

I think it will take quite some time before the new figures really take off. Compatibility with Poser is definitely one thing. Another is that it will be a while before there's enough content/converted content for it. By that time, things will have found a way to become stable.

The majoriy of users are not going to jump to new figures overnight. I for one can't even work with Daz Studio, since it doesn't allow custom created dynamic clothing, which I use for pretty much all clothing. 

A year from now, everyone will have doubts about Genesis 2.0 characters working with Poser 10.

I like these discussions.

Will all airplanes fly on bio fuel?

Will wind provide all our energy?

Will figures work in?

Will rigging improve?

Will clothes fit?

Will Victoria XYZ wash my clothes?
Will she make me breakfest?
Keep me warm on cold nights?

One can dream, no?

Just to get back on track.
Poser is still the "main" software.

Anyone building something will make it compatible. One way or another.

Dsynamic clothes will be easyer to convert.
Conforming clothes will have more problems to adapt to the rigging.
Just my 2 cents.

Wow, that blender video is impressive. Makes me seriously consider giving it a try, even though the time investiment would be high in terms of learning the interface and everything else.

Hioushi, the new Blender is much easier to learn than the previous versions!

The Genesis figures look impressive, but not impressive enough to make me move to Daz Studio.

I'm sure that when (if) the Genesis figure comes out it will be met with the same universal acclaim that Victoria 1, Victoria 3, Victoria 4, and Michael 4 were met with.

cough

video is private? Thats what i get when trying to access the genesis figure video mentioned in the first post of this thread.

Yup, video is private.  Maybe we are not meant to see it yet.

Quote - Just to get back on track.
Poser is still the "main" software.

Anyone building something will make it compatible. One way or another.
..........

"* Compatibility with other DAZ 3D applications, such as Carrara and Bryce will be available in the next several months. For compatibility with Poser, or other software packages, please contact their respective developers to express your interest in their support of our latest technologies"

Make sure to Contact Smith Micro with your "requests"

Cheers**
**

Quote - video is private? Thats what i get when trying to access the genesis figure video mentioned in the first post of this thread.

That's weird, it hasn't been private for the last several days.

Coldrake

Yeah, when I asked if Miki3 would be supported in DS4,  I was told that Miki3 would not work because of her rigging. One then wonders if DAZ prefers a one way street when it comes to figures working in programs.

The genesis figure bending looks great, a good step towards more realistic body movement. But I'm sticking with Poser and never touching DAZ.

Quote - Yeah, when I asked if Miki3 would be supported in DS4,  I was told that Miki3 would not work because of her rigging. One then wonders if DAZ prefers a one way street when it comes to figures working in programs.

I hardly think they would go to the trouble of adding rigging support for a single figure.

Coldrake

Says it's private and I have to get permission to view it.

It was a limited preview.  It'll return though with more.

Quote - > Quote - Yeah, when I asked if Miki3 would be supported in DS4,  I was told that Miki3 would not work because of her rigging. One then wonders if DAZ prefers a one way street when it comes to figures working in programs.

I hardly think they would go to the trouble of adding rigging support for a single figure.

 

 

Coldrake

Isn't that essentially what they're asking SM to do?  The Genesis figure is one figure that can morph into male and female models, right? Then again, for all we know, the P9 figures may ALL have Miki3's rigging. I would think a little reciprocity is in order here. If DAZ wants SM to support their new technology, then shouldn't DAZ do the same?

Quote - If DAZ wants SM to support their new technology, then shouldn't DAZ do the same?

Why???
DAZ has it own  increasingly "Closed Garden" Program which, sans 3rd party plugins,
(aniMate+, Reality to LUX etc),.. DS is Garbage.
But they Make sure their Figure tech remains
tied to using DAZ studio....not poser
It seems to me that its the poser users who want/need
S/M the Support DAZ Technology  Not DAZ itself so much.

Cheers

Quote - > Quote - If DAZ wants SM to support their new technology, then shouldn't DAZ do the same?

 

Why???
DAZ has it own  increasingly "Closed Garden" Program which, sans 3rd party plugins,
(aniMate+, Reality to LUX etc),.. DS is Garbage.
But they Make sure their Figure tech remains
tied to using DAZ studio....not poser
It seems to me that its the poser users who want/need
S/M the Support DAZ Technology  Not DAZ itself so much.

Cheers

I don't see it. It's in DAZ's own interest to have the Gen 5 tech compatible in Poser, not Poser's or Poser users. Miki3 aside, Smith Micro does not make it's money off of her. Plus in order for even DAZ4 users to use Gen five they have to scrap DS3 or older.

Here's the deal though, are vendor's going to migrate to the new Gen5 characters or are they going to stay where the money is at? If they move to GEN5 then essentially their market is cut is half, because if G5 doesn't work in Poser guess who won't be buying new products from the vendors? But Poser and DS users can always continue to use V4, V3 and Miki3. And that's not even including the users of Carrara and Vue.

And if the lack of support for Ryan and Alyson has shown anything, the vendors will stick with the figures that make them money.

Be realistic

Most are way past "the point of no return" in V4 investment.

Any "New" model will have to be a "VAST" improvement to change that.

Let us be ckear:

Recent models had

-None to bad topology

-Way to many useless poly's or poly saturation in the wrong bodyparts.
Who cares for a 5000 poly ear?
That will be covered with hair for 95% of the time?

-Where a texturing nightmare.

Correct those 3, and any new model has a chance to survive.
To become a hit.. ?

Do not know, but it would have to be a major-major improvement in all deptments.

I have seen the movie, liked the rigging.

"I don't see it. It's in DAZ's own interest to have the Gen 5 tech compatible in Poser, not Poser's or Poser users. .........."

You Keep repeating that
But they bluntly state
they only plan to support THIER
programs ( bryce & Carrara) with this new figure type.
and politely suggest that you poser users take it up with
S/M.

not my opinion here ,as I dont Care,  just quoting from the DAZ Web site.

Cheers

Quote - Be realistic

Most are way past "the point of no return" in V4 investment.

Any "New" model will have to be a "VAST" improvement to change that.

Let us be ckear:

Recent models had

-None to bad topology

-Way to many useless poly's or poly saturation in the wrong bodyparts.
Who cares for a 5000 poly ear?
That will be covered with hair for 95% of the time?

-Where a texturing nightmare.

Correct those 3, and any new model has a chance to survive.
To become a hit.. ?

Do not know, but it would have to be a major-major improvement in all deptments.

I have seen the movie, liked the rigging.

Normally you would be right, but that's not how the poser/ds content market works. This market is dominated by hypes. If you can create a big enough hype around content, people will buy..... regardless if the need it or not. There is no point of return in this market. V4 wasn't a vast improvement over V3 at all, but still lot's of people bought it. Same will happen to V5, people will just buy it. DAZ is the master of hypes, they sell scores of people items each day they don't need at all or ever will use. It's the way this market works and if you know how to operate in it, you can sell anything.

Create a hype, make it look appealing, tell every they need it and make them believe they miss out on something and are left behind if they don't buy it.

What the eye sees, the runtime wants, it's as simple as that. It's not a matter of need or lack, it's a matter of what appeals to the beholder.

Quote -
"I don't see it. It's in DAZ's own interest to have the Gen 5 tech compatible in Poser, not Poser's or Poser users. .........."

 

You Keep repeating that
But they bluntly state
they only plan to support THIER
programs ( bryce & Carrara) with this new figure type.
and politely suggest that you poser users take it up with
S/M.

not my opinion here ,as I dont Care,  just quoting from the DAZ Web site.

Cheers

Well, that's not quite what they said. Will the new figure work in Bryce and Carrara? Eventually. But will the sales from Bryce, Carrara, and DS4 make up for what they'll lose if the figure doesn't work in Poser? I don't think so. So that's why I keep repeating myself. Poser users may wish they had the GEN5 figure, but how many of them will switch to DS4 just so they can use it? 

Quote - Well, that's not quite what they said. Will the new figure work in Bryce and Carrara? Eventually. But will the sales from Bryce, Carrara, and DS4 make up for what they'll lose if the figure doesn't work in Poser? I don't think so....

and they dont say they will work in poser "eventually"
nor do they say anything about sales of bryce or carrara
affecting their Figure development plans.
I would bet that Bryce and Carrara
have not been money makers for them since they rescued them from certain Death years ago.

(See below...again)  

" Compatibility with other DAZ 3D applications, such as Carrara and Bryce will be available in the next several months. For compatibility with Poser, or other software packages, please contact their respective developers to express your interest in their support of our latest technologies"*

This is like when your building super says
"take it up with the owner/Landlord"

Translation= I/we are NOT Doing it.

Cheers

Quote - > Quote - Well, that's not quite what they said. Will the new figure work in Bryce and Carrara? Eventually. But will the sales from Bryce, Carrara, and DS4 make up for what they'll lose if the figure doesn't work in Poser? I don't think so....

 

and they dont say they will work in poser "eventually"
nor do they say anything about sales of bryce or carrara
affecting their Figure development plans.
I would bet that Bryce and Carrara
have not been money makers for them since they rescued them from certain Death years ago.

(See below...again)  

" Compatibility with other DAZ 3D applications, such as Carrara and Bryce will be available in the next several months. For compatibility with Poser, or other software packages, please contact their respective developers to express your interest in their support of our latest technologies"*

This is like when your building super says
"take it up with the owner/Landlord"

Translation= I/we are NOT Doing it.

Cheers

Okay, now, I'm confused as I don't quite see how we differ. Aside from you saying you're not going to ask SM to make Poser compatible. I don't really care that much, but if SM does make Poser compatible, I'll definitely take advantage of it. If not, i won't lose any sleep over it either.

Quote - > Quote - Be realistic

Most are way past "the point of no return" in V4 investment.

Any "New" model will have to be a "VAST" improvement to change that.

Let us be ckear:

Recent models had

-None to bad topology

-Way to many useless poly's or poly saturation in the wrong bodyparts.
Who cares for a 5000 poly ear?
That will be covered with hair for 95% of the time?

-Where a texturing nightmare.

Correct those 3, and any new model has a chance to survive.
To become a hit.. ?

Do not know, but it would have to be a major-major improvement in all deptments.

I have seen the movie, liked the rigging.

 

Normally you would be right, but that's not how the poser/ds content market works. This market is dominated by hypes. If you can create a big enough hype around content, people will buy..... regardless if the need it or not. There is no point of return in this market. V4 wasn't a vast improvement over V3 at all, but still lot's of people bought it. Same will happen to V5, people will just buy it. DAZ is the master of hypes, they sell scores of people items each day they don't need at all or ever will use. It's the way this market works and if you know how to operate in it, you can sell anything.

Create a hype, make it look appealing, tell every they need it and make them believe they miss out on something and are left behind if they don't buy it.

 

What the eye sees, the runtime wants, it's as simple as that. It's not a matter of need or lack, it's a matter of what appeals to the beholder.

V4 was Free therefore the market was stimulated into moving in that direction

Until D/S plays well with Vue I can't consider it. If Daz wants to be knuckle heads and rip a major part of their sales out then let them. They will not be the first blockheaded company to slit their own throats becaue they think they are all that and a bag of chips. I am in agreement with many here that daz isn't that silly or stupid to knock poser users out of the mix. Poser still has a larger user base then D/S....for now.

As far as D/S I'd consider using it if it played well with Vue and while everyone goes on about D/S being free they fail to remember that one has to purchase all the silly butt modules to get to function closely to poser.  But that is neither here or there but the point being if Daz wants to commit business suicide so be it people at the top or always right until it all falls apart then they blame someone else.

Quote - Isn't that essentially what they're asking SM to do?  The Genesis figure is one figure that can morph into male and female models, right?

And into animals like dogs, cats, werewolves.  But since V4's ugly head and body is still in use in the demo, Genesis can't be ready yet just as a base human mesh.

Quote - ......the first blockheaded company to slit their own throats becaue they think they are all that and a bag of chips. I am in agreement with many here that daz isn't that silly or stupid to knock poser users out of the mix. Poser still has a larger user base ......

 

I am not sure I believe  this often repeated
Mantra that a new Vicky that  is %100
not usable in poser is "business suicide" for DAZ inc. they do sell other models both figures and props

Its funny but in a "normal market" with "normal consumers" it should have the unintended effect on theolder  V4/M4 Market that Sony's Dull headed strategem has had on the Sony PSP hand held.

The sony PSP has a Rabid ,Loyal Following
....and why??
because third party dev teams create and share
an alternative Firmware/OS and content superior
to the factory OS in Many innovative ways
it is called "homebrew"
and what does sony do?? they intentionally break
your ability to install "homebrew" with each new model   release.

The result is a ridiculously $high$$ used PSP market price being sustained by the demand for older model PSP's that can still run  " homebrew".
and lackluster sales of the new models until its been hacked to run home brew

But Alas the PSP is a tangible piece of hardware
not so easily Discarded because some hypester  spams your Email box with pictures of the new must-haves Like DAZ, Autodesk,Maxon Luxology et al Does

Cheers

Quote - > Quote - Well, that's not quite what they said. Will the new figure work in Bryce and Carrara? Eventually. But will the sales from Bryce, Carrara, and DS4 make up for what they'll lose if the figure doesn't work in Poser? I don't think so....

 

and they dont say they will work in poser "eventually"
nor do they say anything about sales of bryce or carrara
affecting their Figure development plans.
I would bet that Bryce and Carrara
have not been money makers for them since they rescued them from certain Death years ago.

(See below...again)  

" Compatibility with other DAZ 3D applications, such as Carrara and Bryce will be available in the next several months. For compatibility with Poser, or other software packages, please contact their respective developers to express your interest in their support of our latest technologies"*

This is like when your building super says
"take it up with the owner/Landlord"

Translation= I/we are NOT Doing it.

Cheers

So? Curious Labs had an equivalent statement regarding the face room when it first came out. Said statements have been posted by E-on and CL in the eternal Vue-Poser communication brouhaha. =Every= company says 'It's the other guys responsibility' whenever something new comes out. It's no more than legally covering their butts vis-a-vis support expectations. You know that as well as anyone. The current economy has caused a lot of people to cut back on their new shiny purchases. Ghu knows I have all the Vickies, Stephanies, Lauras, Mikes, Natalias, Apollos, and quite a few more to tide my need for B list actors over for some time. Maybe the Genesis figure will be the greatest thing since sliced bread. But if it is limited to one app set that would require folks to trash their pipelines, then it isn't going to go anywhere. None of the Poser type companies have a reputation for openness and honesty during the development cycle.....usually for good reasons. There are just too many users of Poser related apps to simply toss them aside in the current economy. Unless they are taking DS4 into the pay for area. And you know the competition there that it would have to stand up against.....

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Well, that's not quite what they said. Will the new figure work in Bryce and Carrara? Eventually. But will the sales from Bryce, Carrara, and DS4 make up for what they'll lose if the figure doesn't work in Poser? I don't think so....

 

and they dont say they will work in poser "eventually"
nor do they say anything about sales of bryce or carrara
affecting their Figure development plans.
I would bet that Bryce and Carrara
have not been money makers for them since they rescued them from certain Death years ago.

(See below...again)  

" Compatibility with other DAZ 3D applications, such as Carrara and Bryce will be available in the next several months. For compatibility with Poser, or other software packages, please contact their respective developers to express your interest in their support of our latest technologies"*

This is like when your building super says
"take it up with the owner/Landlord"

Translation= I/we are NOT Doing it.

Cheers

So? Curious Labs had an equivalent statement regarding the face room when it first came out. Said statements have been posted by E-on and CL in the eternal Vue-Poser communication brouhaha. =Every= company says 'It's the other guys responsibility' whenever something new comes out. It's no more than legally covering their butts vis-a-vis support expectations. You know that as well as anyone. The current economy has caused a lot of people to cut back on their new shiny purchases. Ghu knows I have all the Vickies, Stephanies, Lauras, Mikes, Natalias, Apollos, and quite a few more to tide my need for B list actors over for some time. Maybe the Genesis figure will be the greatest thing since sliced bread. But if it is limited to one app set that would require folks to trash their pipelines, then it isn't going to go anywhere. None of the Poser type companies have a reputation for openness and honesty during the development cycle.....usually for good reasons. There are just too many users of Poser related apps to simply toss them aside in the current economy. Unless they are taking DS4 into the pay for area. And you know the competition there that it would have to stand up against.....

They are. They just posted today that there will be four flavors of DS:

*"The only thing finalized is DAZ Studio Standard. *

*We are still thinking about what to include in *
DAZ Studio Online (beginner web app) 
DAZ Studio Express 
(standard fits in here) 
DAZ Studio Advanced 
and 
DAZ Studio Pro[

*"we do have a good working idea of what each of these includes... but it wouldnt be a good idea for me to tell you unless its wrtitten in stone. *

Suffice to say that many things that were once ala carte may not be anymore in the higher level offerings."

I agree on some of your points wolf359 but sony and Daz are two different animals. Sony is huge where as Daz is a tiny outfit in comparison abd only deals with one type of product. Daz doesn't sell computers, home theaters, TV's and other large tag consumer goods world wide. However, Daz is too small to just throw business away and while they do sell other things their figures have always been their mainstay because no other company that deals in 3d content has been able to create figures as well as Daz has. Most people that buy from Daz, including myself, buy the figures and all the content to go with them. I don't seen Daz as anything else then a content provider because they are no where near being able to run with the big dogs in software.

To cut people out of their content or to make people buy programs that is able to use their content especially in a hobby market isn't smart on their part. As Dale B pointed out not in this economy and I don't see this economy getting better anytime soon. People stapped for cash are not going to ditch all their content and apps just to start all over. Maybe the fortunate few could but not the masses. I seriously doubt Daz is penny wise and dollar foolish.

Quote - I agree on some of your points wolf359 but sony and Daz are two different animals. Sony is huge where as Daz is a tiny outfit in comparison abd only deals with one type of product. Daz doesn't sell computers, home theaters, TV's and other large tag consumer goods world wide. However, Daz is too small to just throw business away and while they do sell other things their figures have always been their mainstay because no other company that deals in 3d content has been able to create figures as well as Daz has. Most people that buy from Daz, including myself, buy the figures and all the content to go with them. I don't seen Daz as anything else then a content provider because they are no where near being able to run with the big dogs in software.

To cut people out of their content or to make people buy programs that is able to use their content especially in a hobby market isn't smart on their part. As Dale B pointed out not in this economy and I don't see this economy getting better anytime soon. People stapped for cash are not going to ditch all their content and apps just to start all over. Maybe the fortunate few could but not the masses. I seriously doubt Daz is penny wise and dollar foolish.

I pointed out earlier that even if DAZ can afford to alienate their Poser users, most likely the vendors can't. I hear so many of them whining now about how they can barely pay their bills. I just don't see where they'll drop a successful V4 figure to go along with a figure that would only have half the customers.

It WOULD be interesting though to see how Content Paradise would take advantage of such a market split though, assuming they would.  Bagginsbill said they're not stupid. Unless he was just talking about the developers. :biggrin:

Quote - > Quote - Isn't that essentially what they're asking SM to do?  The Genesis figure is one figure that can morph into male and female models, right?

And into animals like dogs, cats, werewolves.  But since V4's ugly head and body is still in use in the demo, Genesis can't be ready yet just as a base human mesh.

In the beginning of the clip they say they Dialled in V4 into the Genesis model. Hense why it looks like V4. This was done in order to show a direct comparison of the bending using v4 and the genesis model as an example.

DAZ can't write Smith Micro's code, that is why they said take it up with the developers. They did give them the knowledge to make it work, what Smith Mircor does with it is up to them. That is all they are saying.

Quote - DAZ can't write Smith Micro's code, that is why they said take it up with the developers. They did give them the knowledge to make it work, what Smith Mircor does with it is up to them. That is all they are saying.

Well, that's not ALL they're saying. DAZ Rand has stated that they, DAZ, wants to change the Poser community dynamic. meaning that they want Poser to have to follow their technological developments instead of the other way around. So Miki 3 STILL won't work in DS4 even though she's been out long enough that  they could have coded her in. But they want to make us, the Poser users whine to Smith Micro about including weightmapping in the next version of Poser. Which is fine if that's where the technology is heading anyway. I'm just saying that in the spirit of getting along with each other, a little reciprocisity on DAZ's part wouldn't hurt.

Well, if Smith Micro gave them the information that might be useful but we don't know if they did. The thing is I don't see anyone really using the capsule joints anyway so it would be a lot of work to work with few people.

Quote - Well, if Smith Micro gave them the information that might be useful but we don't know if they did. The thing is I don't see anyone really using the capsule joints anyway so it would be a lot of work to work with few people.

All I can say to that is that Miki3 still seems to be getting support from the vendors even though the DS people can't use her. And judging from past sales performance, it's probably safe to say more people would have bought her if they could use her. But like I've said earlier, new technology or not, I'm not going to switch software just to use one figure. Especially when I've got a whole stable of them now.

Miki3 is not even THAT good, I mean, her bendings are far behind the new Genesis figure, so I don't see why Daz should put any effort on supporting it. 

So far, the one implementing new technology has been Daz, so they are the one to follow right now, not SM.