Why is it that there are so many products for V4/M4 that only work in Poser and not DAZ Studio?  This has got to stop.  Seriously.  Showing us a great product for the models we use in our program and then telling us that the product won't work with our program is just plain mean.  What did DAZ Studio users ever to do you vendors, to piss you off and make you not want to support them?  Did it honestly never occur to you that you could be making a lot more money by selling to users of both programs?

Vendors are free to make for whatever program they want to make (or not), same as you're free to buy from a vendor (or not). Some vendors only use Poser and never touch DS. You're not suggesting they should have to learn a program they don't want to use just so that you have stuff to buy?

Laurie

...and let the Drama and Flaming begin.

As a vendor, I can explain this a bit. Almost exclusively, I use Poser and not DS. I purchased DS3Adv but it fails to work consistently - crashes a lot - when I try to develop shaders in Shader Mixer, which is why I got Daz Studio 3 Adv in the first place. So, I lose all my work.

Products such as clothing and characters (and even a lot of props) rely on shaders to give that realness effect. I write shaders in Python for Poser, and it makes a significant difference to how things look when they render. I would love to do the same for DS - it would increase my market significantly - but am hampered at every turn by the programme I'm trying to write shaders for: DS3Adv. So, it's not about hating a programme or user base: it the programme itself that is keeping me from creating the content I wish to.

There are a lot of content creators for DS (and heaps of stuff for DS as well) so someone has apparently been able to get around the problems I continue to have. I'd say something is wrong with my copy of the programme. I've submitted bug report after bug report with no reply or acknowledgement from Daz, but since then I've learned that now with DS4, they are not planning to fix the problems in DS3.

So, you can see my dilemma.

ETA: I think I was able to do that without Drama or Flaming: just stated my experience with this.

Quote - As a vendor, I can explain this a bit. Almost exclusively, I use Poser and not DS. I purchased DS3Adv but it fails to work consistently - crashes a lot - when I try to develop shaders in Shader Mixer, which is why I got Daz Studio 3 Adv in the first place. So, I lose all my work.

Products such as clothing and characters (and even a lot of props) rely on shaders to give that realness effect. I write shaders in Python for Poser, and it makes a significant difference to how things look when they render. I would love to do the same for DS - it would increase my market significantly - but am hampered at every turn by the programme I'm trying to write shaders for: DS3Adv. So, it's not about hating a programme or user base: it the programme itself that is keeping me from creating the content I wish to.

There are a lot of content creators for DS (and heaps of stuff for DS as well) so someone has apparently been able to get around the problems I continue to have. I'd say something is wrong with my copy of the programme. I've submitted bug report after bug report with no reply or acknowledgement from Daz, but since then I've learned that now with DS4, they are not planning to fix the problems in DS3.

So, you can see my dilemma.

ETA: I think I was able to do that without Drama or Flaming: just stated my experience with this.

I think you helped make that clearer. 

Well, I'm sorry for my attitude.  I just kinda feel like I'm going into a bar and being told by the bartender that they don't serve my kind there.  sigh

no gallery no bio 9 posts

Quote - no gallery no bio 9 posts

We all had to start somewhere, Richardson. S'okay - I understand his dilemma - just thought I'd share mine.

Quote - no gallery no bio 9 posts

Ok, I was going to stay out of this, but I have to step in here.

Richardson, only a very small percent of members ever posts in the forums.

It's comments such as that that make people not want to post at all. I know when I joined Renderosity I lurked for a year or so before posting, just so I could scope out the "population" to see if people were friendly.  For the most part they seemed to be so I made my first post.

I am saddened when people comment about the number of posts that someone has because it makes it sound like what they have to say is irrelevant.

The number of posts a person has doesn't really mean anything. As Robyn said, we all have to start somewhere.

I don't have anything "on topic" to say about Daz vs Poser content because I use Poser.  But from what I read in some of the posts here, I can see the dilemma that some vendors have.

To the initial Poster, have you tried Poser? It's not free, but it will give you a whole world of options that Daz doesn't have, and the ability to access a ton more content.

OP should thank me for deflecting the responses..;p And thanks for the lesson in forum etiquette.  I think I see that I crossposted at 8:38 but no matter. No changes in opinion here.

I find many products that say "not tested in Daz studio" but the stuff was compatible if the buyer was prepared to work on the textures. Poser 4 standards were most compatible.  Now a vendor has to decide on what level of Daz studio compatibilityto support, what add-on shaders or just the base studio package.

In some ways its an opportunity for a Daz studio user to iffer his services to make Daz compatible textures for other vendors products.

Daz 3 wont run reliably on my system , tons of strange crashes so I wiped it. The latest version wont even load. So for me , no Daz Studio versions of stuff.

Why does everyone always go for the jugular with their questions? Hatred? Really? It couldn't be a simple answer like "The vendor doesn't know how to use DAZ Studio"? Well, you know what they say about ASSumption!

Quote - To the initial Poster, have you tried Poser? It's not free, but it will give you a whole world of options that Daz doesn't have, and the ability to access a ton more content.

Yes, I did use Poser 7 originally.  Maybe it was just my computer, but that program gave me a lot of troubles.  Like how it took forever to install or to even make a render.  I don't know, I might be willing to give it a second chance.  If I ever have the patience to wait for it to finish installing again.

Quote - Why does everyone always go for the jugular with their questions? Hatred? Really? It couldn't be a simple answer like "The vendor doesn't know how to use DAZ Studio"? Well, you know what they say about ASSumption!

I did apologize for my attitude in my first post.  But when I see something like "We do not offer DAZ Studio support.", the way they say it sounds like they're directly middle-fingering DS users.  Maybe if they said it more politely, like... "Apologies to DAZ Studio users, but we cannot offer DAZ Studio support." then I'd be more forgiving.

Quote - > Quote - no gallery no bio 9 posts

 

Ok, I was going to stay out of this, but I have to step in here.

Richardson, only a very small percent of members ever posts in the forums.

It's comments such as that that make people not want to post at all. I know when I joined Renderosity I lurked for a year or so before posting, just so I could scope out the "population" to see if people were friendly.  For the most part they seemed to be so I made my first post.

I am saddened when people comment about the number of posts that someone has because it makes it sound like what they have to say is irrelevant.

The number of posts a person has doesn't really mean anything. As Robyn said, we all have to start somewhere.

I don't have anything "on topic" to say about Daz vs Poser content because I use Poser.  But from what I read in some of the posts here, I can see the dilemma that some vendors have.

To the initial Poster, have you tried Poser? It's not free, but it will give you a whole world of options that Daz doesn't have, and the ability to access a ton more content.

Thank you Acadia.

I'm not a vendor, but DS3 and 4 won't even run on my Mac. I'm certainly not going to abandon my Mac, and I'm not going to buy another computer just to run one program, so if I ever were to become a vendor, well, No DAZ Studio support from me either.

BTW, I don't have a gallery or bio either.

Quote - But when I see something like "We do not offer DAZ Studio support.", the way they say it sounds like they're directly middle-fingering DS users.

Renderosity has a forum for DS users so that's not really true.

But your original question was why don't vendors support DS more? Your impression is they do a lot more for Poser users? Frankly I don't think Renderosity sells that much that is only for Poser users. So why are you asking that here? You did not even gave some examples to make your point more evident. Do you mean they only offer shader files for the material room?

Quote - Yes, I did use Poser 7 originally.  Maybe it was just my computer, but that program gave me a lot of troubles.  Like how it took forever to install or to even make a render.  I don't know, I might be willing to give it a second chance.  If I ever have the patience to wait for it to finish installing again.

Yes, Poser 7 does take forever to install.    While it doesn't fix that issue, Service Relese 3 does cure a multitude of other sins...

http://poser.smithmicro.com/poserupdates.html

     I only make freebies, but the same issues apply as with vendors.  Several features of my texturing don't show properly in D/S, and none of the dynamic clothing works.  It isn't because I don't care, nor do I despise D/S users.  I would be very pleased to have all the features work for D/S users, and I'm always grateful and willing to cooperate with a D/S user who wants to make D/S material files for my models.  Likewise,  you can bet that vendors would be keen to have the D/S market as well as the Poser market.  So why don't my models work (fully) in D/S?

• I don't know how to set up D/S materials.  And I realize that one might quickly say "So, learn D/S!", but understand that I work 56 hours a week, and have only so much play time on the computer.  As it is, I have paid licenses for programs which have a higher priority to be learned.  Since the last Vue update, Vue now refuses to recognize my existing content library on one of my computers, and I still haven't figured out how to fix that.
• The material effects which I use in Poser don't exist in D/S.  Or in earlier versions of Poser, for that matter.  Poser has a more sophisticated and flexible material node system than D/S.  So, do I exploit the new capability so as to make the best model I can, or do I keep everything below the least common denominator?  I choose to exploit the new capability.  I am willing to help someone adapt to their program.
• D/S cloth dynamics require setup in a very expensive proprietary program.  D/S simply can't use the dynamic clothing which I make in Silo or modo.  Poser will "clothify" any geometry mesh you want to use.

     You are right in that there is a "football team fan" sort of blind loyalty, on both sides, but I doubt that vendors are shooting themselves in the foot by intentionally not supporting the other app.  Rather, they are simply limited to being able to provide what they know,  and not so many among us are conversant in both Poser and D/S.

Okay, okay!  Enough!  Delete this thread, please!

If a merchant is a Poser user who makes a product for use in Poser, perhaps he or she won't spend even more time testing it for Daz Studio compatibility. As it stands, a merchant is lucky to make minimum wage for the time invested in creating a product. They don't owe you anything. Daz Studio users aren't a protected class and it isn't discrimination to not cater to them.

Quote - Why is it that there are so many products for V4/M4 that only work in Poser and not DAZ Studio?  This has got to stop.  Seriously.  Showing us a great product for the models we use in our program and then telling us that the product won't work with our program is just plain mean.  What did DAZ Studio users ever to do you vendors, to piss you off and make you not want to support them?  Did it honestly never occur to you that you could be making a lot more money by selling to users of both programs?

Whut?

My products have never supported D|S and until I can get it working on my system they never will.  You may as well tell me they should be Max or Maya compatible. 

Quote - Okay, okay!  Enough!  Delete this thread, please!

FYI threads are never deleted.  They get locked and/or moved but never deleted.

In any case, why should it?  You asked the question.  If you don't think you're going to like the answers, don't ask.  :)

Haven't even been able to install and run Daz Studio since version 2, yet Poser 8 runs fine. Every user has a preference. I don't like using Daz Studio, but I love using Daz figures. I love using Poser, but I don't like using the bundled Poser figures.

To be fair to vendors they can only create things using the software that they have at their disposal, and while some content says not for Daz Studio, much of it says simply that it hasn't been tested in DS. Most of the content on Daz's site works with both but here are many products that will only work in DS especially at the moment with the new Genesis figure.

The original poster is posting on the Poser forum that there isn't enough content for Daz Studio. There is a Daz Studio forum here and one on Daz's site as well as the "MarketPlace Wishing Well" forum here for making product requests to vendors in general. I am not having a go at anyone, just stating that this isn't the best forum to post on for what they want.

Quote - the "MarketPlace Wishing Well" forum here for making product requests to vendors in general.

What a great idea!  A nicely phrased post in that forum asking more vendors to support Daz|Studio, might have the desired affect that the original poster asked.

Quote -  

FYI threads are never deleted.  They get locked and/or moved but never deleted.

Actually Sam threads here Do get deleted in short order if they

are about certain taboo subjects .

But to the OP Calm down !!there is plenty of content for DS and that new DAZ Studio only Genesis Figure will likely result in even more for DS

New goodies all around for everyone!!!..relax.

Cheers

Wolf, they don't actually get deleted.  They're moved to another part of the system where regular members can't see 'em but they ain't deleted.

Quote - Why is it that there are so many products for V4/M4 that only work in Poser and not DAZ Studio?  This has got to stop.  Seriously.  Showing us a great product for the models we use in our program and then telling us that the product won't work with our program is just plain mean.  What did DAZ Studio users ever to do you vendors, to piss you off and make you not want to support them?  Did it honestly never occur to you that you could be making a lot more money by selling to users of both programs?

Depends upon the product you are refering to.  Remember a few things.  Poser has been around a lot longer than DS.  DS could be classed as a knock off of Poser. 

Unless I miss my guess, the product you're complaining about is most likely a dynamic cloth product.  To enlighten you, Poser had dynamic cloth back when DS was just an idea.  DAZ made the choice to go with the Optitex system and not the soft body physics engine that Poser uses.  If you're going to rant at anyone rant at DAZ. 

If the product is a python script, again blame DAZ not the vendors.  DAZ considered going with Python support but then dropped it in favor of QT scripting.  Again, Poser had python scripting before DS even existed.

If the product is a shader or material, again blame DAZ.  Shaders and material room nodes are directly tied to whatever renderer the app uses.  DAZ chose 3Delight.  Poser had Firefly long before DS existed.

Sense a pattern here?

No, vendors do not have to stop or change what they are doing because you don't like it.  If that were the case then every Poser user would have the right to go to DAZ and flame them for Genesis which only works in DS4.

No one is being "mean".  Vendors are doing what they do.  They make products and sell them.  They have no control over what DAZ did or did not decide to include in DS.

Quote -  Did it honestly never occur to you that you could be making a lot more money by selling to users of both programs?

I doubt most vendors make a profit, if you average hours to make the product by sales total they probably make $3.00 an hour.  Add on a few more hours to test in yet another program?

Really it's just making some money at your hobby.

before they delete it, one might mention that it's analogous to asking right-handed individuals why they aren't left-handed.  righties don't hate lefties, they just function differently.

I don't hate DAZ studio, I just don't care for it. For me, Poser runs faster and has a much friendlier user interface. Every new version actually offers genuine improvements, and although I find Firefly can  behave strangely sometimes, I suspect that's due to my lack of skill and dedication rather than any serious flaws in the application.

Quote - > Quote - Why does everyone always go for the jugular with their questions? Hatred? Really? It couldn't be a simple answer like "The vendor doesn't know how to use DAZ Studio"? Well, you know what they say about ASSumption!

I did apologize for my attitude in my first post.  But when I see something like "We do not offer DAZ Studio support.", the way they say it sounds like they're directly middle-fingering DS users.  Maybe if they said it more politely, like... "Apologies to DAZ Studio users, but we cannot offer DAZ Studio support." then I'd be more forgiving.

That's not "More Politely" that's ass kissing! There is nothing wrong with simply stating that they do not support DAZ Studio! There is no "Implied" middle finger in that statement. It's just a statement of fact! Period. Expecting them to kiss your ass on the other hand is just plain rude!

I have a simple request for DAZ: Give us a choice of downloading ZIP or EXE files of their products.

Quote - > Quote -  Did it honestly never occur to you that you could be making a lot more money by selling to users of both programs?

I doubt most vendors make a profit, if you average hours to make the product by sales total they probably make $3.00 an hour.  Add on a few more hours to test in yet another program?

Really it's just making some money at your hobby.

 

Still a profit though, unless it's actually costing them something to make the products.

It does cost something to make products.

Quote - It does cost something to make products.

Yep. Time ;)

Laurie

Hatred? There's not hatred...it just sucks.

I don't hate it because it sucks, one could say that I strongly dislike it because it sucks...but hate is such a strong word. Sucks is a little more gentle with a bit of a sexy vibe to it.

Yup, DAZ Studio just sucks.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote -  Did it honestly never occur to you that you could be making a lot more money by selling to users of both programs?

I doubt most vendors make a profit, if you average hours to make the product by sales total they probably make $3.00 an hour.  Add on a few more hours to test in yet another program?

Really it's just making some money at your hobby.

 

Still a profit though, unless it's actually costing them something to make the products.

put it this way. each hour you spend making something, it's an hour your not working at a job that pays minimum wage at the very least. you are spending your own resources - electricity, internet bandwith and lets say refreshments..

so no... it's not really a profit since it is costing them.. even if many don't realise that.

I can honestly say that part of the creative process is in fact enjoyable. The rest becomes a dreary tedium that many times I wish would just stop.  By the time you have a working zip with everything in the right place, all the mat poses done, the uv map actually usable and all the defects worked out of the obj file, all the body part centers in the right place , all unused dials hidden, all dials used named meaningful names like open/close and not Rotate z, with proper limits, bend turned off for mechanicals and manually edited in the ERC dials  a lot of the fun has gone out of the task. 

Then getting past testing leaves you with a good feeling which rapidly turns to irritation as people complain before reading the readme file, and you realize that 20 people have commented on the product even though you only sold 10 ;(

Waste a few hours sending out cease and desist letters or DMCA notices to sites in  strange places hoping they read english. 

Gee yes I want to also make a Daz studio version and spend hours more figuring out their node based textures or painting equivalents in Gimp.

Its not personal, no hatred involved, its just more time spent with little return. 

If a product sells for $12 the vendor gets 6. On that he pays taxes if he makes enough in a year.  If he spends 10 hours on a product at minimum wage thats 72.50 he needs to make so thats 12 sales. After the 12-13 sales he is maybe making a profit. 

I had a bunch of test scenes from Daz studio, none of them load in the latest version.  Some of my old product does not work in the latest studio either, I dont know what Daz changed but something broke badly. Is it worth my time trying to sort out whats wrong , actually no. Give me some good up to date documentation on my own PC and I might reconsider.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - > Quote -  Did it honestly never occur to you that you could be making a lot more money by selling to users of both programs?

I doubt most vendors make a profit, if you average hours to make the product by sales total they probably make $3.00 an hour.  Add on a few more hours to test in yet another program?

Really it's just making some money at your hobby.

 

Still a profit though, unless it's actually costing them something to make the products.

 

put it this way. each hour you spend making something, it's an hour your not working at a job that pays minimum wage at the very least. you are spending your own resources - electricity, internet bandwith and lets say refreshments..

so no... it's not really a profit since it is costing them.. even if many don't realise that.

Don't know if I can quite go along with that. No one works for pay 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, and unless they quit their full time job to work on 3D stuff, then I just don't think it counts.  It's stuff they would be doing anyway, most likely as a part of their hobby.

Quote - > Quote - It does cost something to make products.

Yep. Time ;)

Laurie

Let us not forget the investment in Software that is used in the actual creation of content. That's not always free either.

Quote -  Don't know if I can quite go along with that. No one works for pay 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, and unless they quit their full time job to work on 3D stuff, then I just don't think it counts.  It's stuff they would be doing anyway, most likely as a part of their hobby.

Doesn't matter if you choose to go along with it or not. Time spent is money lost. You can't justify that by saying it's just a hobby to the vendor. They spent money on the software they used to create the product and then spent time on creation, testing and packaging. That is worth something whether "You" go along with it or not. That's just the sort of attitude that soured me on being a merchant.

before this goes off the handle again.. I'm locking this thread.
**
JStryker47** like stated in earlier posts ..please keep in mind we have the Marketplace wishing well and the DAZ Forum. Either or both would have been better to post this question at.