I think the site is mainly about breast feeding and for women who are embarrassed about their breasts and have strange ideas about how a woman should look (because of too many artificial breasts in the movies and magazines - and because of Victoria ). So those who are so kind to post their picture describe their weight, if they gave birth to a child and if they did breast feeding (THAT is a disturbing term to me, it's so animalic, we call it "stillen" - it can be translated as "calming" or "assuage") so that beholders get an idea why the shape is like it is.

I think that, beside doing research, it is a perfect source for every young girl that things that something is not normal.

The idea with bones for breasts rises up with each new Victoria I think. Shaping for bras is something I already saw (and own), Billy-T and roogna offer shapes along with their clothing products. Using this for dynamic underwear would be a dream-come-true (and there once was dynamic underwear available for V2):

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/dynamic-lingerie-set---poser-5/15681

Quote - we call it "stillen" - it can be translated as "calming" or "assuage"

What a sweet term. Here in Brazil we call it "amamentação", which is a term of its own, I'm guessing it comes from "mama" which means "breast" or from "mamãe" which means "mommy"...

"Breast feeding," is a more modern term. I am not certain why it was introduced. At one time the polite term was nursing (nurturing).

lmk

Victoria, Antonia and I think all poser females have breasts adjusted to bra. Anyway, breast morphs are first which most people create on theirs figures :) Sometimes it looks weird, because on render you can see extreme NGM and bra. Is it made with rubber?

Quote - Victoria, Antonia and I think all poser females have breasts adjusted to bra. Anyway, breast morphs are first which most people create on theirs figures :) Sometimes it looks weird, because on render you can see extreme NGM and bra. Is it made with rubber?

I think rubber would offer much more support than regular bra. The word you might be looking for may well be "skin paint" LOL

There are some breast motion morphs in one of the FBM packages posted at the Free Site.  I've been trying to use magnets for that effect, but it's difficult to position the mag zones to affect only the intended areas.  Bones or body handles for breast motion might work better with weight mapping for more controlled deformations.  Any of these approaches should be able to be animated using Ockham's Jiggles script.

There are also some breast sizing morphs in the Free Site FBM sets.  I don't think there are really any shaping morphs which can create the wide variety of different possible shapes.  Although Les has contributed some nipple morphs.  :laugh:

It has been suggested that breast shaping is somehow one of the most important points for character individuation on a base figure.  Whether that's true or not, I could see a shaping package being popular.  :laugh:

Oh geez, there are more FBM packages than those in Antonia's site? Argh! If we want to give her more support, we should find a way to organize all those morphs and perhaps offer them all in one package. Otherwise people will give her up because they're confused.

An Antonia Mega Pack or something has been discussed and I thought steps had been taken toward organizing it.  Dunno what happened.  :unsure:  I agree that it can be confusing.  I posted two FBM packs, both containing morphs donated by different users and thus separated by contributor rather than consolidated.  I think redistribution was okayed for both sets, though, so perhaps it would be okay to combine them somehow.  Probably best to ask, though.

I've been experimenting with clothifying the collars and trying to simulate gravity effects, but had little success. Poser simulation does not support a volume constraint in the simulation and because you can only simulate one body part at the time you get 'hard' edges.

Tried breast bones also, but the movement is one of sliding parallel to the ribs rather than a rotation. I am not sure if weight mapping will do the trick. Maybe if it allows non-consecutive bones so you can simulate the sliding motion by a two-link rotation.

I am afraid we will have to wait a while before there is a satisfactory general solution.

Barring any built-in soft body tools, one would be left with either Python or an external application to handle simulations.  Python could do it using a system of virtual "springs" between vertices, but it would be slow.  An external application would involve the hassles of importing and exporting data for processing.

With a few tweaks and additions to the cloth room, some soft body dynamics like this might become feasible.  Volume retention would be one such addition.  One hopes someone from SM reads posts like this and maybe at least thinks about possibilities.  :unsure:  They've been wowing us with the upcoming new release, so just maybe they'll think about other big, new additions, in the future.

Breasts, being semi-fluid, are going to be problematic as long as they are not simulated in a physics engine of some sort, like dynamic hair and clothing.  To do it properly, the breasts would have to be dynamic, a ribcage structure would have to be defined, and they would have to be able to be contained and re-shaped by clothing as well as gravity.

Until then, morphs and/or magnets are pretty much our best option.

In my uneducated newbie opinion.

See what happens when I don't refresh the page before posting?  I think Cage and I may be thinking along similar lines.

DarthJ, do you want comments on the beach poses posted here, or in a private message?

Quote - Breasts, being semi-fluid, are going to be problematic as long as they are not simulated in a physics engine of some sort, like dynamic hair and clothing.  To do it properly, the breasts would have to be dynamic, a ribcage structure would have to be defined, and they would have to be able to be contained and re-shaped by clothing as well as gravity.

Agreed. My vote goes to the Tit Room, expected to appear in Poser 12 or so.

Quote - the Tit Room

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAH breathes HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Quote - My vote goes to the Tit Room, expected to appear in Poser 12 or so.

ROTLF!

Quote - Agreed. My vote goes to the Tit Room, expected to appear in Poser 12 or so.

ROFL I can't wait, but I can wait for the toast room.

A "Tit" room? Roflol!

I needed that laugh, been sick all day and now trying to watch 5 kids for two or three hours...sigh.

Had to take a break from my latest project until I feel better, and just when I need a new item on the market.

I need a few extra dollars to buy my youngest grand-babie a pair of shoes.

What a discussion caused by some topless beach poses. And to think she only wears a bikini bottom because of the American audience.

quote :

DarthJ, do you want comments on the beach poses posted here, or in a private message?

Here, but one moment please ...

** puts on bulletproof vest **

** puts on helmet **

Ok, bring it on !

Quote - been sick all day and now trying to watch 5 kids for two or three hours...sigh

Aww... hugs I hope you get well soon.

Thanks for the hugs. :)

It's not exactly a virus, it is similar but gives strep throat with it. So far my throat is just a little scratchy feeling but I do have fever and am achey all over.

Kids are home now and mom went to bed so maybe I can relax a little bit. sighs with relief

I'm wondering if I should do a few make-up options with my latest APG set. It seems to me there are a couple of free make-up packs already.

Or maybe try some body paint or tats?

People like the options, so I would do that if I were you. Make-ups tend to be a must have, tattoos and/or body paint are a nice plus...

Choice is good.

I ran all the poses on simultaneous copies of Antonia 1.2 and Antonia 1.0.  Most of the poses would require only a little adjustment (some rotation, in most cases) to work on Antonia 1.0.

Pose 01 seemed to change Antonia's appearance somewhat.  Some of that might be because she also moved closer to the camera along the Z axis, but she looked a little different to me.

All of the other poses moved Antonia to 0,0 on the X-Z planes.  I prefer poses that do not move the figure, so that I can place the figure first, then apply the pose.  Pose 010 looks a little stiff, but would look just fine if I gave her a book to read.  Pose 012 looks a little stiff and unnatural, too.

Most of the poses looked pretty good to me, although I didn't try them out with the beach recliner.  I'd say you did a pretty good job, myself.  I wish I was that good.

Edited to add:

And per the discussion of breast shapes earlier, Renderotica seems to be offering some morphs for sale to give breasts that "kept well in-hand" look.

There is definitely a long way to go, but here is a first result. The left breast is sagged just a weebit to make it more natural in unsuspended condition. More would hurt her feelings. Yes I applied some fairing with the morph brush. 

What jumps to mind is the possibility to use a shrunk version of the cups of the clothing as mandril, and so push the breast into place in conforming clothing, or use same mandil to shape breast and conforming clothing and so ensure fit.

added:

Using a ribcage, like Thalek proposed, will also bring improvement. In fact you go to skin that is plied over a rigid internal skeleton. 

Interesting.  Then could you perhaps run Poser Physics on these breast proxy objects, or something?  Or would Jiggles work?

I imagine:

1. Run physics sim on breast proxies

2. Set up cloth sim with figure mesh for breasts colliding against breast proxies and ribcage proxy.

3. Run cloth sim.

Guess I didn't need numbers there, for the steps.  Huh.  Not always sure why I do things a certain way. 

I've tried create "dynamic breasts" with V4. I predicted that NGM was created in clothing room. It looks ok, but was very limited. Most problem was, that you must create morph for fantom/proxies. It should have default shape similar to breast and deforming it was as difficult as deforming breasts. Moreover different morphs demands different dynamic groups. For example "lay back" should be deformed with chest.

Anyway my friend show me "Easy Breast System" and I started to create something like this for Antonia, but without "controll arrows". Few ERC was created on figure, which I've sent to BluEcho. Side-side, up-down worked ok. I see that it is impossible to make them with 2 magnets.

I have a lot of ideas, but never can finish them. I started to make back morphs as well. I do not like bend poses, because all figures have cavity in the middle of back. Bowing human have bulging back and backbone.

Haven't done much but play with the other morphs but they work okay so far.

And here is one of the make-up options for the new set, not finished yet, just started them today. :)

Copper + Cobalt. There should Nickel in the middle.

Oh my, that's what you get when you take a day off... a "breast gland protuberance room" in Poser 12. I laughed so hard that I scared the cats!! The simulation looks like a way to go, bagoas, as more as downsizing is harder than upsizing! In fact I really long for soft moveable breasts for laying poses (and squeezable buttocks for sitting poses). It is always pretty nifty to create such scenes in a believable way, even more when a surface is touched...

Quote - and squeezable buttocks for sitting poses

They should not be visible, unless figure is sitting on the glass.

I think that sitting pose should have alternate geometry. Antonia is better then other figures, but still far from natural bending pose. I thinkthat it is impossible to make natural rigging in Poser. I eve though, that it may be possible to create "muscles" and put them in skin made of original mesh. Original obj would be used as dynamic skin. Figure must be scaled in first frames of animation to make skin stretched little bit. Unfortunatelly skin folded very weird.

They should not be visible, unless figure is sitting on the glass.

Mostly, yes, but everytime I use one of these poses on a very small stool or when you look on such a pose on a chair with a solid surface from the site there seems to be something wrong. Arcebus created a V4-morph with a buttock morph for these cases and I found that the morph really makes a difference!

See here

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=2187912&user_id=78941&np&np

I've seen this render. Do not worry. Everybody looks on the nipple ;) nobody see small problems with riging, when this breast sneaking through crossbars. I did not notice.

Quote - Everybody looks on the nipple

Not everybody. I noticed the gap straight away, sorry SF. :(

Tit rooms aside, I'm hoping flesh simulation will be on the cards for future versions of Poser. Cloth simulation only goes part of the way (and isn't perfect yet by any means) - there are many areas where it would be good to be able to simulate the effects of objects on the skin - props, clothing, or even other body parts, for example when bending limbs back against themselves.

Does Antonia have a Young or Youth morph to turn her into a teen?

I just noticed that PoserWorld has an outfit for Antonia available . . .

Quote - Does Antonia have a Young or Youth morph to turn her into a teen?

Can be done, I'll add it to my list to make.

Well on the make-up for my new APG set I have Copper, Cobalt, Nickel, gold and Crimson so far.  Each color has one with just lipstick and shadow/line and one with a fantasy make-up added. :)

I'm working on a green set and an Amethyst set, which I'll need to name something descriptive except green or amethyst .

Sounds good to me, I don't think you'd need more.

Quote - Does Antonia have a Young or Youth morph to turn her into a teen?

I'm still working on textures for 2 FBM. On eof them can be "teenage". Unfortunatelly I stuck on toenails and textures are not ready yet.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/media/folder_10/file_472342.JPG

BluEcho. According to periodic table you need zinc, iron or manganese. Gold is another period ;)

Jadeite is green, but "jadeite" often describes something toxic.

shuy, i've checked images of those metals and they don't fit my color schemes so I'll go with adding Emerald and Amethyst to the list. Lol.

Now I need to rtake a beak while I try to figure out a solution to a problem that has me ready to burst into tears. It's personal so I won't go into detail.

With luck I'll be back at my textures ina day or two...sigh.

Quote - > Quote - Does Antonia have a Young or Youth morph to turn her into a teen?

I'm still working on textures for 2 FBM. On eof them can be "teenage". Unfortunatelly I stuck on toenails and textures are not ready yet.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/media/folder_10/file_472342.JPG

Wow, that doesn't look anything like the default Antonia!  :ohmy:

Quote - > Quote - Does Antonia have a Young or Youth morph to turn her into a teen?

I'm still working on textures for 2 FBM. On eof them can be "teenage". Unfortunatelly I stuck on toenails and textures are not ready yet.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/media/folder_10/file_472342.JPG

BluEcho. According to periodic table you need zinc, iron or manganese. Gold is another period ;)

Jadeite is green, but "jadeite" often describes something toxic.

Those are wonderful! Do you plan to distribute them? If so, how?

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Does Antonia have a Young or Youth morph to turn her into a teen?

I'm still working on textures for 2 FBM. On eof them can be "teenage". Unfortunatelly I stuck on toenails and textures are not ready yet.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/media/folder_10/file_472342.JPG

BluEcho. According to periodic table you need zinc, iron or manganese. Gold is another period ;)

Jadeite is green, but "jadeite" often describes something toxic.

Those are wonderful! Do you plan to distribute them? If so, how?

Of course I want to redistribure, but I want to create texture first. Few months ago I wanted to redistribute all Antonia related produts as a freebies, but after 2 months with photoshop I think that I should sold it with minimal price.

So they will be part of character packs? Got it.

It's just that I'm making morph packs for Antonia that I want to function as V4's Morphs++ and Elite Body Shapes... But I don't want to repeat morphs that have already be done and can be used like that.

Guess I will make my own Young morph after all LOL

Make a short morph for her too, then! She doesn't have to turn into a kid, but a teen or petite  woman would be nice! :biggrin:

Short would depend on P9/PP2012's new Animatable Joint Centers, because joint centers would get moved around by such a morph.

The pic shows some examples of the implemented breasts morphs.