BB or anyone else, I need to understand the refaction node. I will give you three examples. Two are alike and one is not.

All have refraction..

I have a glass of water and I stick V4's finger in the water and the finger looks bent from light refraction. Both of your eyes see the entire surface of the water all at the same time or the water surface is small in size.

I have a swiming pool, and V4 is sitting on the edge of the pool, with her legs dangling in the water. The camera is pulled back to see the whole pool. Her legs look bent from the light refraction. Again both of your eyes see the entire surface of the water at the same time.

Now the question or issue

I have a small boat on a large body of water, think very large primitive disk, with a layer below the water, another large primitive disk with a sand texture. In real life if I was hovering over the boat, camera angle say at 65 degrees from horizontal, I would see the anchor line bend from refraction below the water line. The water is clear and I am able to see the bottom or sand below. But as I look in my perifery vision, I am looking through a thcker body of water and I can no longer see the bottom. The water color will become darker around the edges of my vision.  Poser scene, large body of water as explained above, with your (BB's) enviro sphere to create a sky-back-drop. There is a transmap on the water plane to provide a peek below the water surface. Edge=0 falloff=0. If I look to the edge of the disk where it meets the horizon, there appears to be banding or almost like a second layer under the water when the refraction is applied and it's not the bottom or sand layer. Somthing I didn't see in the glass of water or the swiming pool. Not sure if it is the pure size of the water disk. But it almost is like the refraction doesn't fade in the distance like you would expect in real life.

Should or does the refraction node act on a large surface inside Poser, like you would expect in real life??? Put another way does or should the refraction effect lower it's self the further you move away from the focal point of the camera.

It's almost like the transmap to let the camera see the bottom at the main focal point and the refraction are getting tangled up and it allows the camera to see below the surface of the water out at the perimeter of the water disk

1-Infinite light to act as the sun. Semi low rendering settings for testing.

I am not looking for somebody to build me a shader. I am trying to get a better understanding of exactly how refaction works in PoserPro 2012 around the edges of large surfaces.

TIA

Gary

Yes. But you have to use it right. It's the Fresnel effect.

If you just use the Fresnel node - everything is perfect for water, glass, or other things that transmit clearly without a color tint.

The index of refraction of water is 1.33. Glass is 1.54. Oily sweat is 1.4.

Other things get tricky.

I can post more tomorrow.

Meanwhile, search for posts by me with the word water.

We are good I found two good threads.

this is explains a lot

"The Fresnel node combines Reflect and Refract with the ratio automatically calculated based on index of refraction and angle to viewer. It only performs the correct calculation for a material that is 100% clear at 0 degrees and 100% reflective at 90 degrees - i.e. a perfect material. In real life things like clear glass, clear undisturbed water, and diamond are examples of things that the Fresnel node correctly models. Things it does not model correctly are colored glass, water with particles in it, or colored gems such as ruby or emerald."

then I found the other one where you don't use fensel connected to alt diffuse

U don't need to post more. Now I need to burn down the render engine after reading the two threads I found :)

Excellent. Really though I have a lot of good threads on ocean water, lake water, pond water, some on window glass, some on wine glass, one that is water drops on glass, one about diamonds, etc. If you need help finding these let me know.

The Rendo WIKI was supposed to be the place to find all these thread links but they stupidly are abandoning that.

any news on the gold procedurals you were making for the rmp?

Quote - any news on the gold procedurals you were making for the rmp?

The news is I got stalled on preparing the marketing thingies and I've been really busy with consulting work. My wife bugs me every day. "Do you have a store yet?" Truth be told, I am easily consumed by "interesting" things, to the point that I don't eat, sleep, or finish my store. I gotta work on that.

the new fresnel node may allow bill to simplify those, but of course users of earlier versions may still need the schlick approximation shader(s).

p.s. ISTR somebody was gonna transfer those poser wiki compilations to their own server but don't recall who, where or when.

in response to the following message, am also in favour of retaining "koi man". however, one might mention that some users can be confused by the text in these messages, depending on their perception of the avatar of the user.

well, hopefully she isn't trying to make you change your koi persona anymore  

i just wanted to give you something back for the all the advice you give over the years and shop at your store.

Quote - well, hopefully she isn't trying to make you change your koi persona anymore  

i just wanted to give you something back for the all the advice you give over the years and shop at your store.

I second the motion. All in favour...

The curve of the disk doesn't look right at the horizon, and I need to tweek. Still messing around with water and lighting. I need to stock it with a lot more fish and several bikini babes on the deck.

Just a word of caution before you consider relocating there. The deck, steps and landing look very sun bleached as does the boat. So when it is done, it coudl still be classified as a fixer-upper, as I am too busy to fix those things becuase I am having to much fun using PP2012.

Let me know if your interested.

Gary

clearly, users are still interested in buying bill's shader pak, whether for current or earlier poser versions.